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Kyt Thrace
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Posted - 2009.03.31 17:09:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Kyt Thrace on 31/03/2009 17:20:03 Does anyone use the gang assist modules at all? In PvP? FW? Group PvE?
I just dont ever see any topics with these modules in them. Are they a waste of skill training?
Are the Leadership skills a waste?
I am just looking for some use for them & if they are worth training at all.
Thanks
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Avoida
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Posted - 2009.03.31 17:15:00 -
[2]
Gang links can be very effective and quite helpful to a fleet. I haven't had an FC turn down an offer to bring a Damnation running 3 armor links or an Eos with 3 information links when everyone benefits.
Leadership skills aren't a waste either. Nothing is more frustrating than forming up a fleet and having too few people with even just Leadership V to pass down bonuses from Wing/Fleet commanders. You are more flexible and can offer greater support to your corp/alliance by being able to at least say you have Leadership V, Wing 3 and your basic buff skills to V.
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Angelos
Gateway Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.31 17:23:00 -
[3]
Most fits are assuming you are solo, where the links mean nothing. Leadership skills and links are great in fleet. Not many train them because really you just need one booster in your fleet and the skills never help you solo.
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Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2009.03.31 18:31:00 -
[4]
Theres nothing wrong with spending a little bit of time getting leadership skills to something like 3 and then always being 6% more effective when youre flying with at least one other person. The ammount of time involved is pretty small to get 5 skills to 3 even if theyre charisma based. So its worth the investment.
Getting everything to 4 takes a little bit longer. Its a good idea if you are an fc, or if you regularly fly in 10, 20 man plus gangs and you fly a ship bigger than a frigate. Dont want to put your gangs command bonuses in a flismy frig.
If you are a dedicated battlecruiser pilot, thats when its time to think about training command skills up to 5 to get the gang mods. I got the rapid deployment link before the speed nerf and my cane was hauling ass at just under 5 klicks with a t2 fit the cheap hardwirings, and one polycarbon. It was worth it. Now I'm considering training for the shield ones, although interdiction manuevers is always in high demand.
Make sure you can t2 fit completely including weapons, and even then battlecruiser 5 might be a better skill to train first. The only other problem is that minmatar battlecruisers are the only ones with the extra grid to fit a command module without resenting the loss of something else.
Ammar are also pretty good for powergrid but there are larger lasors you could fit to use that. For Minmatar even 425mm autocannon are relatively easy to fit. And 220s work just fine. Gallente are iffy, they need most of their grid to perform. And caldari just aren't going to fit a gang mod without making extreme sacrifices.
I wouldnt recomend mindlinks unless: Youre a claymore alt for 50 man gangs. You only ever want to fly gang linked battlecruisers ever again. You have all the other skills you might ever want trained to your satisfaction and youre willing to wait the long train times out.
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Marconus Orion
Amarr Astroglide X The Foray Project
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Posted - 2009.03.31 18:44:00 -
[5]
Mmmm.... bonuses. Nothing else in the game will get you more sought after aside from having a titan/mom than being able to fly fleet command ships with gang assist modules and minlinks.
PERIOD!
Once you start getting max bonuses for certain things like armor and skirmish, you will be highly recognized and the crowds will rejoice when you join the gangs.
You must remember your role though. Don't go risking your ship to get a piece of the action when by you staying alive increases your gangs effectiveness ten fold. This role defines what it means to be a team player.
I miss pre-nano nerf days with my claymore.
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente Buffalo Soldiers
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Posted - 2009.03.31 18:49:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 31/03/2009 18:51:01
Originally by: Hiroshima Jita
I wouldnt recomend mindlinks unless: Youre a claymore alt for 50 man gangs.
You know the Skirmish mindlink no longer gives a 15% velocity bonus since the speed nerf? It boosts agility 15% now. Claymore is not as desirable these days as a Damnation.
Quote:
You only ever want to fly gang linked battlecruisers ever again.
Oh, quit being so pessimistic. It's not like having BC V and CS V are handicaps unless you're boosting an epic fleet.
Quote: You have all the other skills you might ever want trained to your satisfaction and youre willing to wait the long train times out.
The Warfare Specialist skills are rank 5, same as the racial cruiser skills. They really aren't all that onerous, unless you're an Achura min/max.
-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then --
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Traderboz
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Posted - 2009.03.31 18:56:00 -
[7]
I have one character that I'm training leadership up on, and I can't decide how high to take it (I want to train it now so I can remap and ditch all this crappy charisma he has ;p). At the very least I'm thinking I'll get all the base warfares to 5 and get the spec's up to 4, but I can't decide then if I want to get one or more of them and possibly warfare link specialist to 5. Right now he's flying Caldari commandships, but it seems to me that Amarr would perhaps be more useful (due to the prevalence of armor tanking). I still can't decide. :P
It's quite a bit of training though to really invest in leadership abilities, and it'll really only pay off when running with and boosting larger groups of people.
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TimMc
Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.03.31 19:00:00 -
[8]
They are very nice, especially the armour links. Gallente Ewar links are probably more useful than people give them credit.
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Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2009.03.31 19:17:00 -
[9]
I said the claymore as an example. Mindlinked eos, damnation, any of the command ships with bonus to gang links. If youre alliance flys hac gangs, you want the claymore. If they fly rr bs gangs the claymore is pretty useless, you want the damnation...
And mindlinks require you to get one rank 5 skill to level 5. That means that unless you plan on being in a large gang handing out bonuses all the time you would help yourself better by training bc 5 first, alot f other easier support skills to 5.
My point is, that if you have 10-20 mil skillpoints, gang mods are worth training for if you want to be a dedicated bc pilot. If you are going to specialize all the way to mindlinks you are going to want to fly bcs all the time to make up for the investment.
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Rogue Lilly
Caldari Lords Of Filth
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Posted - 2009.03.31 21:00:00 -
[10]
just posed the same question in the new citizens section this morning. I thought i was missing something because I have not seen one single ship fitting ever that uses these. But I recently trained the skills to use them myself.
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente Buffalo Soldiers
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Posted - 2009.03.31 21:39:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 31/03/2009 21:41:16
Originally by: Rogue Lilly I have not seen one single ship fitting ever that uses these.
(from memory, I think it all fits!)
[Claymore, fleet booster] Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers Skirmish Warfare Link - Rapid Deployment Armored Warfare Link - Passive Defense 650mm Artillery II - Tremor 650mm Artillery II - Tremor 650mm Artillery II - Tremor 650mm Artillery II - Tremor 650mm Artillery II - Tremor
10MN MicrowarpDrive II (or a faction MWD for cap) Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Dread Guristas Boost Amplifier Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II
Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Local Hull Conversion Nanofiber Internal Structure
Core Defence Operational Solidifier I Core Defence Operational Solidifier I
-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then --
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Noisrevbus
Caldari Breams Gone Wild
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Posted - 2009.03.31 22:21:00 -
[12]
There are a couple of things that limit the popularity of gang links
1. They are Charisma-based, which means most streamlined characters will see long training times and be discouraged. 2. They are "off" skills, you gain no secondary benefit, and you have no benefit of these skills when you don't boost. 3. Not everyone can be a gang-booster, it is a very narrow role where too much competition is not good (should it occur).
Those three things relate to each other, and sort of balance themselves out. It's good that it's not very easy or popular to train for since it is a flavour role. The same goes for actually using gang links (the modules), but a few more things apply here. Mindlinks (the implants) are usually always handy to have, and no larger loss if not being used, so it's never bad to load one up if you have skilled for it. The gang links suffer a few more problems though.
1. The boost they give really need a gang large enough to reach a point where the stacking see effect. 2. The bonuses also require a certain composition and size (ie., an active-shield gangmod is useless without active shield transfers or tankers). 3. The modules are extremely demanding [in a negative sense], which in turn make them impopular to use on several of the ships they are designed for (50 cpu, 200 pg is far too much).
This makes the module only used in certain token roles, where a BC or field-CS have to give up alot to fit the mods and a fleet-CS is very specialized from the get-go. As people have already mentioned in the thread, despite being very well tanked ships overall; people flying gang boosters tend to keep them out of harms way (in part because the links force you to give up so many other aspects of the ship to provide the bonuses). That's how five-link CS came about and why people have a tendency to keep them hidden away (or at best, just in the rear of an engagement).
So there are two sides to it really.
On one side it's good that there are few people who want to be gang boosters, on the other side a few simple tweaks could make the modules more popular (eg., looking over their fitting needs).
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