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Caffeine Junkie
Atomic Battle Penguins
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Posted - 2009.04.01 13:23:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Caffeine Junkie on 01/04/2009 13:24:00 Please allow Covert Cynosural Fields to be generate in 0.5 and above.
You can't jump caps to them anyway so I can see no real reason not to be able to use Black Ops Jump Drive in high-sec.
I think it would increase the use of this ship, both for wardecs and also for general mobility.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.04.01 17:39:00 -
[2]
Before they made Blockade Runners jumpable, I might have gone for this. At present, though, I can't - it makes highsec transportation far, far too easy. ----- Bloodmoney Incorporated is recruiting! |
Korerin Mayul
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Posted - 2009.04.01 18:40:00 -
[3]
i really am torn...
while blocade runners could brake high end transportation, its a lot of skills for not much m3.
actually, i say do it. it may shake up empire 'pvp' a bit.
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Tesseract d'Urberville
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
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Posted - 2009.04.01 20:02:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto Before they made Blockade Runners jumpable, I might have gone for this. At present, though, I can't - it makes highsec transportation far, far too easy.
Originally by: Korerin Mayul while blocade runners could brake high end transportation, its a lot of skills for not much m3.
Good points. I think it's an interesting way for corps involved in empire wars to spice things up. Blockade Runners' cargo holds aren't that big; I don't see this affecting traditional trade in a big way. I've been wrong before, though.
So long as it remains an enforceable exploit to avoid CONCORD using this mechanism, sounds like something that's at least worth talking about. --------------------------------- Thomas Hardy is going to eat your brains. |
Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.04.01 21:53:00 -
[5]
I would be okay with this if it couldn't be used to jump freighters and haulers
as someone already pointed out, transporting logistics is ridiculously safe in EVE already. We don't want to make this game too carebear
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Caffeine Junkie
Atomic Battle Penguins
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Posted - 2009.04.01 23:24:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ephemeron I would be okay with this if it couldn't be used to jump freighters and haulers
Afaik you can't use them for JF.
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Caffeine Junkie
Atomic Battle Penguins
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Posted - 2009.04.01 23:26:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto Before they made Blockade Runners jumpable, I might have gone for this. At present, though, I can't - it makes highsec transportation far, far too easy.
A Recon, Blockade Runner and Black Ops to move 6k m3?
Thats a lot of skills / ships / fuel / accounts to move not a lot of stuff.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.04.02 01:10:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Caffeine Junkie Edited by: Caffeine Junkie on 02/04/2009 00:00:22
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto Before they made Blockade Runners jumpable, I might have gone for this. At present, though, I can't - it makes highsec transportation far, far too easy.
A Recon, Blockade Runner and Black Ops to move 6k m3?
Thats a lot of skills / ships / fuel / accounts to move not a lot of stuff.
A rigged Occator gets over 10k, and you can also use a dozen of them with one Black Ops/Recon pair as easily as a single one. I can easily see someone setting up an instant-movement business between, say, Jita and Rens for anyone with a blockade runner and some isk. That is not something that ought to exist. ----- Bloodmoney Incorporated is recruiting! |
Optical Illusion
Minmatar D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.04.02 03:42:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Caffeine Junkie Edited by: Caffeine Junkie on 02/04/2009 00:00:22
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto Before they made Blockade Runners jumpable, I might have gone for this. At present, though, I can't - it makes highsec transportation far, far too easy.
A Recon, Blockade Runner and Black Ops to move 6k m3?
Thats a lot of skills / ships / fuel / accounts to move not a lot of stuff.
A rigged Occator gets over 10k, and you can also use a dozen of them with one Black Ops/Recon pair as easily as a single one. I can easily see someone setting up an instant-movement business between, say, Jita and Rens for anyone with a blockade runner and some isk. That is not something that ought to exist.
First, occators cant just to a covert cyno, Viators can, and they get 10k m3 rigger and expannded. although 10k m3 of Trit isnt alot in isk 10k m3 off Snake Omega's is. Ok, not the best example, but you get my drift. Its not nessaserily the volume of the goods that makes it valuable.
I however, think its a good idea, but i just wanna speed up the occasional hauling i do :P
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.04.02 04:28:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Optical Illusion First, occators cant just to a covert cyno, Viators can, and they get 10k m3 rigger and expannded. although 10k m3 of Trit isnt alot in isk 10k m3 off Snake Omega's is. Ok, not the best example, but you get my drift. Its not nessaserily the volume of the goods that makes it valuable.
I however, think its a good idea, but i just wanna speed up the occasional hauling i do :P
You're right, that was a typo, I meant the Viator. I remembered it being at the top of the list in EFT when I checked it, so I assumed it was the one that was alphabetically first - I don't fly transports myself, and I can never remember which is which. The Occator can get 35k+, but can't bridge.
However, name issues aside, the number was correct - 10k+ m3 per ship bridging. People won't be bothered for pure trit, but for reasonable items(named goods, say), then there's more than enough money to be made to justify the transport costs, and it's money that can be made far too easily. ----- Bloodmoney Incorporated is recruiting! |
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Caffeine Junkie
Atomic Battle Penguins
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Posted - 2009.04.02 16:17:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Caffeine Junkie on 02/04/2009 16:19:48
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
You're right, that was a typo, I meant the Viator. I remembered it being at the top of the list in EFT when I checked it, so I assumed it was the one that was alphabetically first - I don't fly transports myself, and I can never remember which is which. The Occator can get 35k+, but can't bridge.
However, name issues aside, the number was correct - 10k+ m3 per ship bridging. People won't be bothered for pure trit, but for reasonable items(named goods, say), then there's more than enough money to be made to justify the transport costs, and it's money that can be made far too easily.
Yes I will grant you that its a possibility, but I'm sure CCP can code around preventing high-sec covert cynos being usable by transport ships.
Additionally moving high-value stuff at the moment is pretty safe, transport ships are damn near uncatchable as it is, plus if you want to move larger quantities of valuable stuff you can put it in the corp hanger on an Orca, which neither shows up on cargo scan or drops if you are killed, and is considerably more HP to suicide gank.
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Verys
The Black Ops Black Core Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.02 16:26:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Verys on 02/04/2009 16:26:11 I don't see the problem of the trading shortcuts which seem to be the main issue. A black ops jump bridge has such little (tiny really) range that you probably never be able to jump from one trade hub to another and that while using expensive fuel.
The one problem I see here is that you can avoid low-sec gate camps. Say you are delivering something in a system 3 jumps into low-sec and you have a black ops in a high sec system and one in a low-sec system you can make an easy jump bridge between the two and get all of your "add expensive mod" in (i guess you can already do this) or out there without any risk, especially if you make this bridge near a station or pos.
I like the idea but I think the above method I stated removes risk from low-sec way too easily.
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Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
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Posted - 2009.04.02 17:18:00 -
[13]
Quote: Please allow Covert Cynosural Fields to be generate in 0.5 and above.
Considering the extreme short range; and insane training time it takes for covert cynos. I cant see this as unreasonable.
Quote: You can't jump caps to them anyway so I can see no real reason not to be able to use Black Ops Jump Drive in high-sec.
Well obviously nobody will be bringing the black ops into pvp. So worst case you're moving other ships around and such.
Quote: I think it would increase the use of this ship, both for wardecs and also for general mobility.
pff. Wardecs are so broken and such. I cant see why you even bother tbh. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded. |
Jason Edward
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Posted - 2009.04.02 17:29:00 -
[14]
Quote: Before they made Blockade Runners jumpable, I might have gone for this. At present, though, I can't - it makes highsec transportation far, far too easy.
Blockade runners can get through bubble camps easy. Let alone empire. They also dont really haul much. So essentially speaking. The insanely short range jumpbridge and fuel costs. Pretty well balances that idea.
Right now to basically go from oursulaert to amarr. Using a sin. It'd take roughly 6 jumps.
That's alot of fuel because of how short range the black ops are. All for blockade runner sized cargo?
On top of that. It's going to take 1000m3 of fuel just for the black ops. Add in the blockade runners and you have to pigyback a few blockade runners for fuel.
If someone wants to do this and be competitive on the market? Ya right.
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Isaac Starstriker
Amarr Solaris Operations
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Posted - 2009.04.02 18:08:00 -
[15]
No. No cynos whatsoever in high-sec. I see no reason nor purpose for this use.
--Isaac Isaac's Haul*Mart
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.04.02 18:20:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Jason Edward
Quote: Before they made Blockade Runners jumpable, I might have gone for this. At present, though, I can't - it makes highsec transportation far, far too easy.
Blockade runners can get through bubble camps easy. Let alone empire. They also dont really haul much. So essentially speaking. The insanely short range jumpbridge and fuel costs. Pretty well balances that idea.
Right now to basically go from oursulaert to amarr. Using a sin. It'd take roughly 6 jumps.
That's alot of fuel because of how short range the black ops are. All for blockade runner sized cargo?
On top of that. It's going to take 1000m3 of fuel just for the black ops. Add in the blockade runners and you have to pigyback a few blockade runners for fuel.
If someone wants to do this and be competitive on the market? Ya right.
Wait until CCP finalizes their BO changes. They are going to make bridging easier
And anyway, no more boosts to logistics. It is too easy and safe now. If anything, it should be nerfed. No cov ops cloaks on transports, reduce jump freighter range, increase POS jump bridge costs 10x. Force people to actually fly thru the damn gates. And maybe, just maybe, we'll see people organize escort duty, which would provide fun for everyone.
If you played this game since 2004, you'd know what I'm talking about
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Re'taka
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2009.04.02 20:17:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: Jason Edward
Quote: Before they made Blockade Runners jumpable, I might have gone for this. At present, though, I can't - it makes highsec transportation far, far too easy.
Blockade runners can get through bubble camps easy. Let alone empire. They also dont really haul much. So essentially speaking. The insanely short range jumpbridge and fuel costs. Pretty well balances that idea.
Right now to basically go from oursulaert to amarr. Using a sin. It'd take roughly 6 jumps.
That's alot of fuel because of how short range the black ops are. All for blockade runner sized cargo?
On top of that. It's going to take 1000m3 of fuel just for the black ops. Add in the blockade runners and you have to pigyback a few blockade runners for fuel.
If someone wants to do this and be competitive on the market? Ya right.
Wait until CCP finalizes their BO changes. They are going to make bridging easier
And anyway, no more boosts to logistics. It is too easy and safe now. If anything, it should be nerfed. No cov ops cloaks on transports, reduce jump freighter range, increase POS jump bridge costs 10x. Force people to actually fly thru the damn gates. And maybe, just maybe, we'll see people organize escort duty, which would provide fun for everyone.
If you played this game since 2004, you'd know what I'm talking about
If you were around in 04 then you know good and well you didn't need an escort in 0.0 or anywhere, players were rare to see in 0.0, and you should know that, so dont bring up your silly bull.
People dont need to fly and use gates all the damn time thats why the jump bridge was made, past that having them in highsec would be no issue as they cant move any large ammount anyway, it was be much easer to move the stuff with the trasnport to a lowsec system 3 jumps out and jump to a different lowsec system near the other hub, use your brain.
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xena zena
Comparative Advantage
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Posted - 2009.04.02 22:41:00 -
[18]
I think this would bring an interesting dynamic to high-sec wars, also increase demand for these ships since high-sec corps/alliances would find them useful and not restrict their customer base to just 0.0 dwellers.
Pros: -More options for fighting 0.0 wars -Increase the customer base for black ops thus increase sell volume and price (good for producers, they're already very nearly unprofitable to invent).
Cons: -Might make transport of mega-value cargo "safe" in high-sec, but as already pointed out putting cargo in an Orca's corp hanger makes it 100% safe since it can't be scanned or looted from (if this is true).
So for a con that isn't really a con, because already exists ways to move mega-high-value cargo 100% safe in empire, over making empire wars more interesting AND possibly making a nearly unprofitable and nearly unused ship-class more profitable and used?
All I can see is win with this proposal.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.04.03 03:29:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Jason Edward Blockade runners can get through bubble camps easy. Let alone empire. They also dont really haul much. So essentially speaking. The insanely short range jumpbridge and fuel costs. Pretty well balances that idea.
Right now to basically go from oursulaert to amarr. Using a sin. It'd take roughly 6 jumps.
That's alot of fuel because of how short range the black ops are. All for blockade runner sized cargo?
On top of that. It's going to take 1000m3 of fuel just for the black ops. Add in the blockade runners and you have to pigyback a few blockade runners for fuel.
If someone wants to do this and be competitive on the market? Ya right.
It's not safety I'm concerned about, it's speed. This would be a tremendous multiplier in how fast things can be moved, and that's not something I want more of. ----- Bloodmoney Incorporated is recruiting! |
Cyprus Black
Elitist Jerks Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.04.03 20:48:00 -
[20]
______________ Some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn. |
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Caffeine Junkie
Atomic Battle Penguins
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Posted - 2009.04.03 22:36:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Caffeine Junkie on 03/04/2009 22:39:53
Originally by: Ephemeron
If you played this game since 2004, you'd know what I'm talking about
I have.
And I couldn't give a toss about Transport ships, quite happy for them to be excluded, or even the jump portal altogether. I just want to be able to use Black-Ops in empire wars.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.04 14:26:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ephemeron And anyway, no more boosts to logistics. It is too easy and safe now. If anything, it should be nerfed.
If you're right on the doorstep of your supplier, sure. Try living in Paragon Soul or Omist and importing a month's supply of POS fuel for 100 or more towers or the amount of low-end minerals needed to keep supercap production running, and then see if you agree that logistics is too easy and needs nerfing.
Quote: No cov ops cloaks on transports, reduce jump freighter range, increase POS jump bridge costs 10x. Force people to actually fly thru the damn gates. And maybe, just maybe, we'll see people organize escort duty, which would provide fun for everyone.
I remember freighter escort ops between Detorid and Empire, 40 or so jumps each way in the days before Jump Bridges, and 'fun' isn't exactly the word I'd use. Escort duty is rarely exciting because by its very nature you're moving something you're not willing to lose and so either you have a big enough escort to scare away would-be gankers, or the hostile gang is too big to safely get past and so you ctrl-q your valuable freighters until they leave.
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Clansworth
Good Rock Materials
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Posted - 2009.04.07 19:18:00 -
[23]
On a strictly common sense/rp basis, i can support this. Covert cynos are just that, covert, so why SHOULD the empires be able to block them? That being said, they need to be able to get around cyno jammers as well. Perhaps in the same change. High isk items would be able to be moved easier, that is true, but do you honestly expect the npc corps in eve to not have pushed for this ability from the empires as soon as it was available? it would seem this is a reasonable request.
System Influence |
Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
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Posted - 2009.04.07 20:10:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Ephemeron Wait until CCP finalizes their BO changes. They are going to make bridging easier
And anyway, no more boosts to logistics. It is too easy and safe now. If anything, it should be nerfed. No cov ops cloaks on transports, reduce jump freighter range, increase POS jump bridge costs 10x. Force people to actually fly thru the damn gates. And maybe, just maybe, we'll see people organize escort duty, which would provide fun for everyone.
If you played this game since 2004, you'd know what I'm talking about
Tbh this thread is just about black ops basically. Which has nothing to do with logistics. It's about moving the glass cannon defenseless crap ships.
I disagree. I think blockade runners are perfect the way they are.
Jumpfreighters are frighteningly long jumpers. They can survive a nerf that's for damn sure.
Jumpbridges I'm not so sure about. I like how pods are essentially free to move around. On the otherhand I dont know how much fuel is used relative to other ships. Though generally speaking those pos are very sensitive. A blue could keep jumping back and forth and get that pos busted up. Not to mention you require sov 3. So I think you deserve that sort of deal. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.08 19:37:00 -
[25]
No one remember why the capacity of cyno jumping from high sec to low sec was removed?
Escaping CONCORD is not allowed, being capable of cyno jumping from high sec was allowing that.
I doubt CCP will make it possible again.
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Lumen Atra
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.09 17:26:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Isaac Starstriker No. No cynos whatsoever in high-sec. I see no reason nor purpose for this use.
--Isaac
Reason and purpose were given in the thread. If you do not see them, you have not read the thread and are just being contrary.
If you disagree with them, you should contribute your opinion instead of doing what you did.
A lot of things in the game exist as attempts to balance the players instead of the game itself. Not allowing this, among other things, is CCP trying to herd the players instead of work on the game, thus, I support this.
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