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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
60
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Posted - 2012.05.04 02:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
Marcus Foederatus wrote:You guys need to man up. You can't have a game system based entirely on carrots and no sticks. Otherwise, all the null sec kiddies would come our way because they can get paid for PVPing.
So your argument is essentially "If they make FW too good well, it'll be too good and all of eve will want to play it?"
As long as they keep the system control null sec crap out of it "station lockouts, bubbles etc" I am quite happy with all of eve playing FW. I don't play in nullsec PRECISELY because of the sticks, I don't care if it has better carrots. I want to play casually, be able to dock up in a flash to do something with the wife, or take a pee, grab a snack.
And for the record, it's mostly the station lockouts I have issue with. That, and what I've already outlined in F&I https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1172051#post1172051 |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
65
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Posted - 2012.05.05 16:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:The "no LP for defensive plexing" appears to be a really good idea to me since it automatically limits the amount of farmers cleaning up the mess the attackers have made. What is the real incentive for defensive plexing? System defense (especially your home system) and pew. Attack is what drives conflict, and therefore its the attackers that should get the majority of the rewards.
I disagree Now, when you chase someone out of a plex they are running, you get no reward (except to fight off the stick of losing docking access to the system you are fighting over, which you may or may not care about for that particular system). What incentive now is there to defend plexes in hikko, immuri, pyne, kedama, hirri etc?
IMO, no LP for defense is completely borked. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
65
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Posted - 2012.05.06 19:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:The bottom line is that neither CCP nor the CSM can advocate rules or changes that are based upon the actions capsuleers take in anticipation of a package of changes that was never set in stone, and still isn't set in stone. It's a tough pill to swallow for some, but every single patch there is a similar flurry of economic activity, and plenty of pilots have lost billions before speculating on future changes that may or may not come to pass. CCP cannot change that policy now and make Sovereignty adjustments simply because pilots moved into enemy sov space under the assumption it would magically become their own.
I don't know what the amarr/minmatar front is like, but on the gallente side the gallente have been basing out of caldari systems for YEARS. Since late 2009 IIRC. This is most definitely not something we've done recently in anticipation of sov changes.
EDIT: where is the delete button? I see X G has basically said the same thing (was playing forum catchup). |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
67
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Posted - 2012.05.07 00:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cearain wrote: have been hopeful that CCP would adjust faction war in a way that would bring about many more quality pvp fights. I have been hanging on to this hope for much longer than any semi rational person would.
These words sum up the last 2 years of eve for me. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
69
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Posted - 2012.05.07 19:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Hrett wrote: I dont agree with all of this (no defensive plexing? Why?)
Thus, when attackers invade your space they are actually stealing your hard-earned LP, and causing your system upgrades to be slowly stripped away unless you do something about it. ... So the reward for defensive plexing is supposed to be that you continue to enjoy your system upgrades. Oh yeah, and still be able to dock. That should be a pretty big motivator to chase off the enemy without needing to paid on top of that.
Before this, I was against the station stuff, but otherwise thought this would be a net positive. Taking what we now know, I think CCP will accomplish what I previously thought impossible: Making factional warfare worse than it is now.
First, here is what we know based on the test server thread and Hans's gracious information in this thread - Plexing doesn't actually give you any LP, it merely steals LP from the opposing militia's IHUB - System ownership gives you the ability to dock in that station, and to put LP into iHUB to get small benefits to station services
So, there will be practically no-one putting LP into the IHUB when it can be siphoned off while the person is sleeping, especially when the rewards for putting LP into the IHUB are so minimal.
Therefore, plexing will have no rewards.
The only incentive then to plex will be the stick of not being able to dock in the station. All this does is add to the only motivation that exists now to plex, Schadenfreude, and that has generally not been a great motivator up to now.
The only reason left to stay in FW instead of going pirate will be access to FW missions. And I predict that a lot of people will train alts to pick up missions and then run them with their faction aligned pirate main. That is assuming that level V's aren't more profitable after the FW LP store changes (which we don't really know much about yet). Especially since other pirate gangs in the region will have a significant advantage in the FW warzone being able to dock up/repair etc.
In conclusion, CCP managed to make FW worse. I did not think it possible. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
69
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Posted - 2012.05.07 19:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
Dirk Smacker wrote:chatgris wrote: - Plexing doesn't actually give you any LP, it merely steals LP from the opposing militia's IHUB
Wait, is that how it works? I didn't get LP in Nenn on SiSi the night of the changes. I assumed they fixed it when I got 10k today.
Look at my original post, I quoted that directly from Hans. Since he's on the CSM and we have no dev blog otherwise, I think that he's most likely correct.
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
71
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Posted - 2012.05.07 20:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:I do find it funny all the smack that comes from the Minmatar & Gallentte right now when it wasn't so long ago they were on the receiving side of getting face pounded.
While you are taking note of those who are smacking you now, don't forget to take note of those that are NOT smack talking you. I for one dislike the smack coming from my side just as much as the smack that comes from your side.
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
72
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Posted - 2012.05.08 17:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Andrea Griffin wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Because these aren't design decisions made from a role play or "just makes sense" standpoint. They are there to directly encourage consequence and add meaning to victory conditions, as well as to encourage more FW pilots to spend time in space fighting and less time sitting in stations spinning ships and asking where the fleet is. I understand that completely, and I agree to a point. I just like to have consistency with mechanics, because otherwise it just feels weird. Not a huge deal, just being a little picky. Fun gameplay is by far the most important, it would just be nice to have both. One thing I think everyone can agree on - these changes are significant and the future of FW is going to be interesting. Eagerly awaiting the dev blog next week!
From a pure gameplay perspective, I think it's suboptimal that neutrals (e.g. pirates) can roam the fw warspace completely without hindrance, but fw gangs are hindered in fw space.
I would go so far as to say if the station lockout thing must happen (and I don't think it should), it should lock out everyone but the faction that owns the system. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
73
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Posted - 2012.05.08 18:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:That would be quite fun if that were the case, but we both know CCP would never do that. chatgris wrote: I would go so far as to say if the station lockout thing must happen (and I don't think it should), it should lock out everyone but the faction that owns the system.
That's what's so damn frustrating about this.
CCP is giving us the disadvantages of nullsec (station lockouts) without any of the advantages: no denying safe harbour to our threats (the biggest threat to the gallente militia are neutrals/pirates who can still dock everywhere with ease, NOT the caldari miltiia), and no defence against random supercap blobs (cynojammers).
Not to mention plexing mechanics that, apart from defending a few key agent systems, has NO reward for defending a plex. We're back at "if I chase an opponent out of a plex my reward is to sit there bored for up to double the normal timer length with no reward".
I am waiting eagerly for that dev blog for some more concrete details but damn things are looking bleak right now. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
74
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Posted - 2012.05.08 20:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:Im more optimistic I guess.
IMO
1) Currently we dont deploy from multiple stations. You have a couple systems where a corp lives and thats it. With docking rights close it means 3 things A) More corps will consolidate a system and B) You cant dock during a roam for repairs. C0 you cant dock up to avoid an in system blob, you're forced to warp from ss to ss
or d), fw corps will move out of the fw warzone
BolsterBomb wrote: 3)Pirates accessing stations, yea so what. Again they dont stash ships all over the place they base out of a single location and then roam.
When they warp off they can dock, repair mods (even offlined ones) and armor, and get back in the fight. Being able to warp off in the middle of a fight and repair and get back within 60-90 seconds is a tactic I make great use of.
They can choose when to fight or when not to fight by simply docking, while we may not have that choice in FW space being in FW.
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
74
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Posted - 2012.05.08 20:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote: Recall the last 3 times you have told your corp "go stash a ship in X system, we are going to JC over or pod over and surprise those flipping ****** evil spiting frogs"
- Tech moon fight in Nisuwa a week ago - Deploying against eve university in Dudreda (we get there via shuttle/interceptor and switch to our stash of ships) - Plexing ships near Intaki (I have a frig and cruiser up there in case I swing by and find someone in a plex my drake can't get into)
And our base in Nenna started as "stash ships in the warzone so we can reship faster without going all the way back to Villore". Nenna was chosen because it was a central location to a wide area of the warzone.
Early on when the caldari used to try and dislodge us from our forward base in Nenna, we won many time because we were able to reship during the fight. Heck, I've even put ships in Tama and suj to do the same thing when the Caldari used to based in Nourv.
Now, this is a tactic that people not affiliated with FW can use to their hearts content, but is restricted to those in fction warfare. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
74
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Posted - 2012.05.08 20:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:This isnt the rule though its the exception.
...
Ive been in battles where it has happend and I see it happening more so in plex fights BUT I just dont see it as an every day game breaker.
Not for me. Since I primarily fly nano, I can usually disengage, repair, then come back.
if it were a full on "only the militia that holds the system can do this" tactic then it would be a strong motivator to keep the system. Instead, I have a very strong incentive just to drop FW and be a "faction aligned pirate".
I'm still advocating against station lockouts, but if they're coming in, at least make them so that "drop FW and just go full pirate" isn't the obvious option. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
76
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Posted - 2012.05.08 20:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:Maybe you should stick around and fight then instead of running away :p
It's a good thing there are emoticons embedded in your comment :P
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
77
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Posted - 2012.05.10 00:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
mental maverick wrote:For the winning side LP will get devalued as you can get more items for less LP and at the same time tag prices will increase as the demand for those increases. As more items can be gotten for less LP the supply to market for those items will increase thus increasing competition and lowering prices of said items. This will probably negate some of that seemingly huge isk making opportunity for the winning side.
On the flip side though, having significantly cheaper faction ships might increase demand, and ISK per LP might even increase (more likely with non-gallente boats unfortunately, but maybe one day CCP will fix gallente > frigs). |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
77
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Posted - 2012.05.10 15:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Yuri Intaki wrote:Bit like Chatgris boasting elsewhere "I went to fight eve-uni because they fight, dont blob and dont smack in local like Caldari". Then looking at his combat history it's full of "t3 alt boosted nano drake kills t1 fitted frigates" fights. So I quess that says enough about human nature.
lolwut? I don't think i ever said eve uni don't blob (unless they agreed to an arranged fight), they could summon a blob in about 45 seconds flat: I'd often fight 15:1 against them, which is why all I could usually kill was tackle unless it got down to 5:1 odds or less.
But they were a breath of fresh air when it came to willingness to fight and friendliness in local. I'm hoping to recruit a few of them.
And on the topic of not wanting to lose ships: Have you looked at my lossboard? I think I spent about 1.5B ISK suiciding ships into their blob in the space of a month.
Also, why the alt, did your main get banned from posting on the forums again? |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
77
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Posted - 2012.05.10 16:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
Lil Nippy wrote:This thread is full of idiotic prophetic rambling from raging FW carebears. Thank you Hans for some logical reason.
Confirming that I'm a carebear.
Don't label your opposition just because they may not agree with you. Non-carebears might have ideas that don't coincide with yours. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
80
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Posted - 2012.05.11 19:17:00 -
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Hidden Snake wrote:unfortunately u r right ... good thing is I allways had other sources of isk too the good thing is that pvp active corps like IBS will get decent amount of lps from kills (so far calculated it can counter the loss on fw missions + addition on plexing), but still will be in bitchy situation. 2 days ago we had decent fights in raka plexes while we were able to quickly reship when we lost the first round (my fcing fault ) and win at the end. In case I will not have a chance to reship >>> no fight at all, because I will not even try in the first round. however all this leads to more blobs, because blob (preferably nano alfa blobs) will protect u and u can quickly gank targets and gtfo in case jesus counter blob arrived (and u turn on ur batphone and ask judas blob to counter jesus blob, while the jesus blob FC will tun on his bathone and ... after few rounds of holly batman server will crash and nobody will play FW because fights for plexes will be irelevant). and yeah ... if i will be on next fanfest I want fair boxing fight with that CCP idiot who came with this ideas. if he would be interested we can go kick box.
The problem isn't the amount of LP you'll get, the problem will be the cost in the LP store to buy things with that LP if your side is losing.
It is true that over time, the losing sides items will become more expensive and the winning sides items less expensive due to supply pressure which will balance ISK/hr a little. However, the winning side should have it easier because as price lowers, aggregate demand increases and vice-versa. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
81
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Posted - 2012.05.11 19:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:And btw Cearain- If you really want to fear monger, do it like this;
There's been secret conversations that the Minmatar will bring down the Gallente and help capture the remaining few systems that the Amarr have thus killing off the Amarr.
:)
WHY ARE YOU LEAKING OUR SUPER SEKRET INTEL!?!?!?111eleven |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
81
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Posted - 2012.05.11 22:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:
The only thing that needs to play out is which side is going to be the winning side or whether some large alliance, will show how great they are, and decide to grind a losing faction to a winning one so they can profit. .
They won't have the standings to pull it off. But let 'em come. Moar fun.
I wouldn't be so sure... you only need a 0.5 standing, and caldari (especially with the patch that added more caldari agents to spread mission runners out) is a very popular choice for pve with the best agents, close proximity to Jita etc...
EDIT: I don't think any large nullsec entity would bother, but I don't think that the standings for some popular pve factions would be a surefire lock against them. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
83
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Posted - 2012.05.16 20:00:00 -
[20] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:I'd much rather engage aggressors when my system is at 5% contested instead of 95% contested, but maybe that's just me.
I'd rather wait until they flipped the system so I can get some reward for plexing. (I'd probably still fight them in the plex if they were there, just not run the button).
I say this because I think people will quickly realize it's not worth putting any LP into the IHUB just to have it drained away while you sleep.
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