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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.04.06 13:58:00 -
[61]
Quote:
This basically.
If you don't clear out the grav sites, it's no wonder they start piling up
Well, where I have explored, there are 25 billion worthless super minor (and thus people CBA mining them) grav sites, 3-5 combat sites, max 1 ladar and mag sites.
You can't really blame miners for not getting a fleet to kill sleepers and deal with 0.0 cost of opportunity and then dig the *2* veldspar roids, 15 scordite (puah) other roids and 5 plagioclase roids.
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The Truckdriver
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.04.06 15:36:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
This basically.
If you don't clear out the grav sites, it's no wonder they start piling up
Well, where I have explored, there are 25 billion worthless super minor (and thus people CBA mining them) grav sites, 3-5 combat sites, max 1 ladar and mag sites.
You can't really blame miners for not getting a fleet to kill sleepers and deal with 0.0 cost of opportunity and then dig the *2* veldspar roids, 15 scordite (puah) other roids and 5 plagioclase roids.
You certainly are doing it wrong, if you mine in the lowest class wormhole with the least of risks, you can expect worthless loot. In principle 75% of the people complaining here prolly haven't tried the more dangerous class wormholes. Its kinda like highsec vs 0.0. the money isn't to be made in the lower class wormholes (compare to veldspare in empire space) but in the higher class wormholes (compared to 0.0) where you have big rocks with arkonor and bistot and even morphite. Those belts are only guarded with 2 sleeper bs and 2 sleeper frigates, so u can kill them with 3 bs. Such a belt can quickly net you 100 mill or more in ore.
I cant help it if u cant get to those or dont do effort to find them. There indeed isn't much money to be made by quickly jumping a bc in a wormhole, run 2 sites and expect to make 250 million isk of it. Its not that way with running missions either.
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Nyota Sol
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.04.06 16:02:00 -
[63]
Those complaining about how CCP failed to make wspace easy to colonize perhaps need to go back and find the memos that indicated from the start that wspace was not designed for colonization (yet).
You all knew if was a risk. You all knew the dynamics were unknown.
It was clearly going to be a logistics nightmare.
Stop complaining that your expectations to colonize weren't met.
___________________________________________
Lost in Space - Apocrypha Exploration Resources |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.04.06 16:35:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 06/04/2009 16:37:34 Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 06/04/2009 16:36:25
Quote:
You certainly are doing it wrong, if you mine in the lowest class wormhole with the least of risks, you can expect worthless loot.
And this after days and days I am posting about >= level 3 sites...
So, where is the risk in 0.6 sec when I get in a grav site and I mine hedbergite and hemorphite with *1* tier 1 drones soloed NPC spawning every long time? Because it's sure easier than going in level 3, find max Omber and rare of the above and have to deal with:
- system anomalies - sleepers - 0.0 environment and gank - w-system logistics
Quote:
Its kinda like highsec vs 0.0
Too bad it IS 0.0 down there. So we get the true risk for?
Quote:
Those belts are only guarded with 2 sleeper bs and 2 sleeper frigates, so u can kill them with 3 bs.
And guess what do you kill when doing the same roids in backwater 0.0?
Quote:
You all knew if was a risk. You all knew the dynamics were unknown.
It was clearly going to be a logistics nightmare.
Stop complaining that your expectations to colonize weren't met.
Dude, all planned for risk, for unknown dynamics, for logistics and so on. It is a GIVEN, it's EvE after all.
Now, where is the IDIOTICALLY easy mode AND reward of level 4 high sec missioning? Or just the reward without the easy mode?
If people whine, is because they really wanted to go there but now their corp CEOs are emailing that the ops are aborted due to crappy income vs effort.
Oh, yes, unless you go in a level 6 with a massive organization. That fits so well the "a place to be for small corps" ideal...
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Gaius Aemilius
Wormhole-space Surveying and Exploitation
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Posted - 2009.04.06 17:53:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Nyota Sol Those complaining about how CCP failed to make wspace easy to colonize perhaps need to go back and find the memos that indicated from the start that wspace was not designed for colonization (yet).
You all knew if was a risk. You all knew the dynamics were unknown.
It was clearly going to be a logistics nightmare.
Stop complaining that your expectations to colonize weren't met.
I'm quite happy with the progress of my colonization plans.
And the desires of the devs is so utterly irrelevant to me I can't laugh hard enough. I want something I ****ing take it. What the devs want me to with w-space is of no concern to me.
But yes, it is a logistical nightmare. We like it here because it's hard, not because it's easy.
I do apologize for aiming my ire near you though. I don't complain about how hard it is, so I assume you weren't talking about it. Alas this whole "kiss the dev's ass" attitude just sets me the **** off. They aren't gods, they aren't in my chain of command, and they aren't in any of your chains of command either, so why the hell should we care what they "want"?
(And I'll note it's not like "the devs" are a unified force with a monolithic external face that never disagrees. I've seen devs say w-space isn't for colonization and I've seen devs say they want colonization. One of them once said he wanted both Santa Marias [exploration] AND Mayflowers [colonization]. So I'd say the whole "The devs hate colonies" is pretty damn unlikely to be true. Say instead "some dev" hates colonization and I might agree, but I'd still tell that dev to take a long walk off a short pier, just let me chum the water first please.) Wormholes ate my sig.
They said it was yummy. |
Cord Cutter
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Posted - 2009.04.07 19:47:00 -
[66]
3 weeks and counting still we've only found grav sites and wh's , I hope you aren't right AI, we spent alot of time down here, seems like our first week here we had spawns and now that is over it's been the same day in and day out.. hoping that maybe someone else can verify that this isn't true, and I'm not talking about the initial 3 mag sites and couple ladars everyone gets at the beginning of colonization.
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Lijhal
FrEE d00M Fighters
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Posted - 2009.04.07 20:58:00 -
[67]
wormholes are for exploration, not for settlement
if so, good move ccp thx
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Xessej
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Posted - 2009.04.07 22:14:00 -
[68]
I think its clear, frustrating but clear, that what is going on is simply the old site spawning/despawning system. From Saturday through Monday, days following periods when lots of explorers were likely doing wormholes they found from k space, we got 2 radars, 6 anomolies and a WH to another w space system. Now I expect several days of little if anything besides some mining.
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SencneS
Amarr Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2009.04.08 18:28:00 -
[69]
The incessant whines of the incompetent and non-visionary bother me when it comes to this subject. My Corporation has settled in WH Space and is expanding it's wallet at a phenomenal rate.
While we where disappointed in the lack of spawning of non-gravemetic sites at first, we discovered special trick that go with the territory for living in WH Space, every day we find Mag, Radar, and Ladar sites, we harvest, and farm these sites every day. And no it's not a bug or an exploit
If you think outside the box you'll discover a world of unending profits. As a message for CCP - NO DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING, these short sighted individuals should not be catered too..
Amarr for Life |
Xessej
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Posted - 2009.04.08 19:17:00 -
[70]
Originally by: SencneS The incessant whines of the incompetent and non-visionary bother me when it comes to this subject. My Corporation has settled in WH Space and is expanding it's wallet at a phenomenal rate.
While we where disappointed in the lack of spawning of non-gravemetic sites at first, we discovered special trick that go with the territory for living in WH Space, every day we find Mag, Radar, and Ladar sites, we harvest, and farm these sites every day. And no it's not a bug or an exploit
If you think outside the box you'll discover a world of unending profits. As a message for CCP - NO DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING, these short sighted individuals should not be catered too..
Sure and all that loot getting dropped on the market hasn't depressed prices at all or maybe you're full of something?
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Abortica Inbortaliss
The United Snakes
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Posted - 2009.04.08 19:59:00 -
[71]
Originally by: SencneS The incessant whines of the incompetent and non-visionary bother me when it comes to this subject. My Corporation has settled in WH Space and is expanding it's wallet at a phenomenal rate.
While we where disappointed in the lack of spawning of non-gravemetic sites at first, we discovered special trick that go with the territory for living in WH Space, every day we find Mag, Radar, and Ladar sites, we harvest, and farm these sites every day. And no it's not a bug or an exploit
If you think outside the box you'll discover a world of unending profits. As a message for CCP - NO DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING, these short sighted individuals should not be catered too..
Let's hear this special trick visionary. I found a radar site today and a combat site, so it's not a complete nerf like I mentioned before but seems to only happen about once a week at least for me and our specific wh
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SencneS
Amarr Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2009.04.08 20:24:00 -
[72]
Over the last two days we've come across 4 Ladar sites, 1 which we didn't harvest. 2 Mag Sites and 1 Radar site. While I'll admit there are also over 40 Grav sites there has been close to 20 encounter sites, all farmed.
If you think we're going to give away our little trick, you're crazy, be assured however that once you work it out, the rewards are incredible.
We where planning on doing other things to use this nice little private patch of heaven but when we came up with this idea it changed everything.
I can tell you it takes a real commitment of time, resources, and a decent amount of starting cost but when setup, you'll be able to find more then you can do. You just have to look and be in the right spot.
Amarr for Life |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
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Posted - 2009.04.08 21:16:00 -
[73]
Heh... yeah WHs are impossible to do solo, you can't run a POS out of them, and they are not profitable. . . . I own my system. I have a POS. Up until a few days ago I was completely solo.
I am also 4.5 Billion ISK richer for 2 weeks of work. (4 Hull BPCs sold)
Y'all who are whining are just doing it wrong.
Taxman VII: Kingdom of Vlad
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Xessej
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Posted - 2009.04.08 21:33:00 -
[74]
Originally by: SencneS Over the last two days we've come across 4 Ladar sites, 1 which we didn't harvest. 2 Mag Sites and 1 Radar site. While I'll admit there are also over 40 Grav sites there has been close to 20 encounter sites, all farmed.
If you think we're going to give away our little trick, you're crazy, be assured however that once you work it out, the rewards are incredible.
We where planning on doing other things to use this nice little private patch of heaven but when we came up with this idea it changed everything.
I can tell you it takes a real commitment of time, resources, and a decent amount of starting cost but when setup, you'll be able to find more then you can do. You just have to look and be in the right spot.
It's sounds like this BS artist is trying to dance around admitting her crew is farming neighboring w space systems or is trying to go gypsy in a chain of systems (notice the phrasing "come across" rather than probed or similiar). Neither of which is novel.
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Cord Cutter
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Posted - 2009.04.08 23:39:00 -
[75]
Originally by: SencneS
If you think we're going to give away our little trick, you're crazy, be assured however that once you work it out, the rewards are incredible.
Too bad you can't tell us about your little trick since if you did you would go down in Eve History as the first person/Corp to have discovered it, if I find out first I will say I Found it :)
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Elocineax
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.09 20:07:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Krishan13 It'd probably help if you just reviewed the dev comments. They've stated clearly that this is intended. You're meant to roam W-space, not camp in it. If you do set up a POS, it's meant to be used as a staging point to raid connected w-systems, NOT to farm the one you put it up in.
What sucks is they are messing up a great part of this game. I for one will abandon wh / low / no sec. No longer a reason to go. Carebear my days away. They will not force me out to play that game. I to am outraged. They are raping a great idea.
This move proves the intention to make fodder out of us whether we want or not. I am not so enamored of Wormhole space to stay if I note this significant change in my wh. It is definitely not worth the additional accounts to me.
Tx for the heads up. I'll invest in another game that won't punish me for succeeding in avoiding **** at the hands of the large alliances and play a good game besides. Our wh throws us into deep 0.o and we have thrived, why not allow us this? We cannot pop down pos' outside wh space as we are too small, don't have sovernty, etc. We figure a way to enjoy what you freely grant the big guys on a much smaller scale and you punish.
This is a continuing pattern. Play fodder to the big guys or don't play at all.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.04.10 07:13:00 -
[77]
Quote:
I'll invest in another game that won't punish me for succeeding in avoiding **** at the hands of the large alliances and play a good game besides.
Quote:
This is a continuing pattern. Play fodder to the big guys or don't play at all.
Hate to break it for you, but both in RL and in every MMO I played to date (often with above average "guilds" and even hard core guilds) it has ALWAYS been about the big guys crushing and (ab)using the casual / small guys.
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Cameron Freerunner
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Posted - 2009.04.10 18:32:00 -
[78]
I couldn't bear to read anymore long, long, long posts, so forgive me if this has been brought up already. If you think the POS is causing the spawn rate problems, unanchor it. Pack it away for a day and see what happens. If the spawns pop up again, you're correct and will have the proof for the disbelievers. Since the anchor time is approx. 30 minutes, just reanchor it. After all the time and effort you've put in, that's nothing. You may find that you have to pull up stakes periodically to get the good stuff. What's the big deal? |
Marcus Tedric
Gallente Tedric Enterprises The Star League
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Posted - 2009.04.10 22:12:00 -
[79]
Oh dear Lord! I despair, I truly do........
What are they teaching in schools these days?
Go back to school and ask teacher; or dig out those old text books of yours; or please just sit down and think a bit.
I don't know the exact answers because I don't work for CCP (and if I did then I then couldn't speculate as much) - but just think of some simple numbers:
- There are 2496 W-space systems (we've been given this number) - There are 6 different classes of WHs (cleverer people than I saw that data and were able to map it) - Assumption - there are 416 systems of each type - Assumption - that each WH Class has a fixed number (a rather large number of each type of Exploration site - Radar, Ladar, Mag & Grav) - Assumption - these sites are distrubted randomly amonst those Class systems - Assumption - the despawn mechanic is EXACTLY the same as for regular Exploration (by Region/Constellation and now WH Class) - 3 days (a figure I've seen quoted before) or when cleared
So - when you clear that tasty Radar site - it spawns immediately on the roll of a 416-sided dice in one of the same Class of WH systems - that's right - the chance it will come to YOURS is damn slim.
It's simple statistics guys.
The apparent effect is that, if you live permanently in one system only and clear the tasty sites, then they will appear, in the vast majority of cases, somewhere else. If they are cleared from there, then they will only appear back in yours in one time out of 416.
In W-systems that are not visited as often and so sites stay for the full 3 days until they naturally de-spawn then they will appear to accumulate a bit.
So, nothing is stopping you staying and living permenently in one system - but it will not have a large number of sites each day - more likely only 2 or 3 tops.
TL/DR - nothing is wrong - post this again after about 5 years and you may, just possibly may, have a point.
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Marlenus
Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.04.10 22:37:00 -
[80]
Thank you Marcus -- others have tried to explain this, but you've done a particularly clear job of explaining how what we see is exactly what we should expect to see based on the known mechanics. ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
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Im Hot
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Posted - 2009.04.24 21:28:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Im Hot on 24/04/2009 21:32:44 I am sure someone is doing some kind of calculation on this and eventually it will get figured out by hardcore persevearence.
Since i have been living in a J2 WH system here is what i have found.
Most are complaining about Grav Sites sucking so just to give a bit of hope i guess i hit the motherload for a J2 sites. I found 4 belts all holding over 25k Arkonor and 25k Bistot. We are primarily a mining corp so this was heaven for us. Then three days later they dissappeared.
Time line Day 1---Exploring and setting up. Day 2---Mined our arses off and cleared one Radar site Day 3---Mined Day 4---Cleared complexes and mined the last belt that was there the other 3 dissappeared. Day 5---Radar Sit spawned and cleared Day 6---Radar Site Spawned and cleared Day 7---Cleared the last of the complexes had one spawn while doing them Day 8---Nothing in the site.
Didn't add this to the timeline for sites but had 2 WH's everyday 1 to Highsec and 1 to W-space a J1 site.
Overall what has happened to me is about the same as the others but i wouldn't mind seeing some more belts spawn.
Oh and another piece of data every 18hours we have a new WH to another W space and i think 24hours but sometimes longer we have a WH to high sec. That pattern has stayed the same every day.
Hope these facts help who ever is calculating this.
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Erra Fazira
Caldari Galactic Network Industries
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Posted - 2009.04.25 03:54:00 -
[82]
As of today, our w-space don't have a single anomaly, grav, ladar, mag, radar at all. Only 2 wormhole leading to a hisec and a class 4. The best thing about our w-space is the entrance to the class 4 which spawns every 16 hours. That is where our money at.
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Some Advisor
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Posted - 2009.04.25 09:36:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Im Hot
Day 7---Cleared the last of the complexes had one spawn while doing them Day 8---Nothing in the site.
Didn't add this to the timeline for sites but had 2 WH's everyday 1 to Highsec and 1 to W-space a J1 site.
1.) you have a "connecting" wh system every day, so you can mine stuff "over there". We are in a nice class4, and have a class3 connection everyday for L/M/R/G that also has at least 1 wh to something else (lowsec,highsec mostly, sometimes 0.0)
this means for me: if a suitable market hub connection has been established and timers are ensured, we bring the whs to critical statst using orca that hauls mined ore to a refinery, then selling at closeby markethub. Also sleepertags get sold. Stuff gets refilled (pos fuel, maybe some mods we suddenly want etc).
So we got reserves, we still have Stuff in our "home" WH but we only touch it when were bored and nothing "outside" or too busy there. Like the way CCP wants "you CAN set up pos, but dont just silly farm there, go spread out"
2.)
Originally by: Im Hot Oh and another piece of data every 18hours we have a new WH to another W space and i think 24hours but sometimes longer we have a WH to high sec. That pattern has stayed the same every day.
interesting, so either the "wormhole thingy" starts to get inaccurate or there is some derivation in the wh timers that iam currently in the process of confirming.
my last C247 that i have everyday is labeled as 16hours lifetime. so far i got times between 16H 50M and 17H 03M so for sure there is "derivation" \o/ makes it more unpredictable :P
still not 100% sure about "reaching the end of lifetime". I was under the impression it either means "less than 1H" or "less than 6H". I got some whs that had that label when there was between 0-3.5 hours left, but still need more data to be sure :-/
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Zarroh
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Posted - 2009.04.25 11:30:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Abortica Inbortaliss Edited by: Abortica Inbortaliss on 03/04/2009 20:39:12 Anyone that thought it would be cool to have a station at a moon in wh space and just hang out with their buddy's and kill sleepers and work on all the logistics involved..
SORRY! Your week is over , Since the new patch release, CCP has made it so that ladar/mag/combat sites do not spawn in systems with stations in them..
Yay! after everything we have done and all those long nights anchoring and onlining, and cov op missions getting fuel thru dangerous pipelines, CCP listened to some new dev that insisted he didn't want wh space settled, so this was the resolve , hmmm..
This Forum post is for anyone experiencing this same outrage, CCP There must be different way then just taking away all the sites.
I am asking only people that have had a POS in Wh space since the first apoc patch to come forward.
What's your problem? You want a station? Go to nullsec...!
WH's are not meant for towers or only for nomad towers. This adds another welcome type of space to Eve which won't get any sov, get used to it or pack your stuff and leave those holes to us who understand the fundamental principle of W-Space.
What a whiner lol...
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sliver 0xD
exiles. The Kadeshi
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Posted - 2009.04.25 11:38:00 -
[85]
Edited by: sliver 0xD on 25/04/2009 11:39:52 i dont like wh space at the moment eghter.
it has nothing of value to a pvper. there is nothing to gank out there. everyone is cloaked or posed up doing nothng.
and getting in and out is a *****. i dont wane go back the way i came that sucks. nobody travels the wh's there is no trafic over a wh. only the 1 or 2 coverts jumping in.
if u ask me wh time should be less then 6 hours and they should spawn 4x more a day. or even less. colapse it after 2 hours and have 12 times the wh's a day :P
this way its we could probe down a wh jump there check out local for stuff to pvp. find a new one and jump there.
--- Somebody needs a hug! |
Xalabaster
Secondhand Smoke
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Posted - 2009.04.25 13:18:00 -
[86]
Sorry to say but there is very a lot to gank in WH. :) Just look for WH's near highsec space. They might be class 1-2 and sometimes 3 but many ravens, feroxes and what not tend to either AFK or not know what they are doing...
Nice to ransom... ================= Time for a sig?
SecondHand Smoke - Now recruiting for deep space WH expeditions!
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Im Hot
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Posted - 2009.04.25 13:43:00 -
[87]
Ok since my post yesterday i downloaded the Wormhole Thingy and started a bit of a precise journal
The pattern i have seen will post a little more exact data tonight but from what i have seen with these two WH's is that my WH is connected to another WH that normally has another Highsec WH in it.
2 Days now no sigs other than the two WH's did clear out a mag and ladar site in the neighboring J1.
Those of you on here just trolling and stating WH's weren't meant to be lived. Go somewhere else. My interpretation of what CCP stated was they wanted small colonies which would level the playing field a bit for the smaller corps to have access to valuable stuff. Unless you can link to a Blue Post where they state that they do not want corps putting up POS's then your opinion that you state is fact is pointless.
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Crassus Silverwolf
Caldari Liberty Forces
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Posted - 2009.04.25 15:17:00 -
[88]
I am sorry to say that I find the negativity really depressing in this post. WH space is a great idea and produces alot fun for all types of players whether they are Industrial or PVP.
WH space is designed to allow PvP'ers to hunt down the unwary and the great thing for them is that local channel does not give away their presence so the hunt is even more fun when u jump a player. However, the flip side is that it could be many hours of fruitless hunting..... hmmm funny that remarkably similar to RL.
For the more care bear oriented guys it allows you to enjoy some more isolated space where the odds of coming across some one are low to non existent but you still need to be aware that u are vulnerable.
The PvE chaps have a really challenging AI to deal with which at least takes some of the grind out of the sites because you need to either fight well on your own or work with your corps mates which at least increases the experience for a PvP contact.
Thank CCP that there is somewhere to go that is not dominated by one of the MEGA alliances/Corps which dominate the rest of EVE and allow us smaller corps a piece of a pie to expand in. The mechanic really does not favour these mega corps controlling vast tracts of space by pure conquest.
There is money to be made in those holes you just need patience, persistence & lateral thinking. POS's help you have a base & yes it adds some awkwardness to resupply but it is not impossible. It is more like how it was 3 years ago in 0.0 where an individual corps could dominate a single system and not be pulverised into oblivion by dozens of Dreads etc from the big Alliances that occurs today.
As far as the Sigs & anomolies are concerned if they are not spawning to your satisfaction go looking for deeper WH systems where there will be others for you to deplete. Use that GREY MATTER.
Enjoy the new freedoms and boundries and have some fun instead of moaning.
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Ikathis sihtaki
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Posted - 2009.04.25 23:16:00 -
[89]
Now will you all please remove your pos from w-space so that the things will spawn sites?
Every class 4 I have found always has no combat sites, 3 other sites (assumed to be grav) and a feckin pos. no one else in sysetm unless sitting cloaked, because i will usually sit there and curse the owners of said pos. |
Tractory
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Posted - 2009.04.26 05:56:00 -
[90]
We occupy a class 5 and there is always stuff to do. Granted there aren't 8+ grav sites to mine the hell out of anymore, but there are always a few rocks to mine, and there are always other wormholes to go into. We keep a very careful eye on these, and log the timings they appear and are first activated as much as possible. If we find something nasty in a connecting wormhole, like a pos full of combat ships, we usually close it down very quickly and wait for a new wh to replace it.
More often than not there is not very much in terms of pos's and we mine what we can, scan down further wh's and see whats what. If we end up with a sensible low sec or empire link then we jump out as much as we can and bring back as much fuel as possible. If its other class 5s / 4s whatever than we take what we can and laugh all the way to the bank. When other people find our wh they dont usually stick around very long, jumping into a large bubble and seeing 2 large fully equppied and armed pos's on scan is usually enough to send them back to their own wh and come back with the biggest ship they have in a panic to try and shut us out before we decide to come visiting.
Long and the short of it is that there is always something to do in wh space, and the deeper and more dangerous the wormhole the more profitable your operations.
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