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Korrakas
Caldari Legion of Ascension Beyond Ascension
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Posted - 2009.04.03 21:42:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Korrakas on 03/04/2009 21:43:46 Distinguished Ladies and Gentlemen of the E-O General Discussion Subfourm, I would like to borrow a moment of your time to ask for your thoughts and critisism of my latest thoughts about new content for our celebrated EVE Online. I know that many of you call for more needed changes such as UI interfaces etc, but I am only a humble man with his imagination and can only contribute with my musings of new shiny ships to commit PEWPEW with, and without further ado I present...
Flagships
Now the concept of Flagships (alternate name of Juggernauts possibly) is a T2 Battleship that is used for PVP instead of PVE (which is primairly filled by Marauders), For it to work it would need to be in the price range of 400-450 million ISK per ships (unfitted) to ensure widespread avalability, use and ultimatley profit. They would (I imagine) primarly be used in large fleet engaments acting in their namesake as relativley high DPS and extreme tank and secondly in gang warfare of pilots with deep pockets. Now their main diffrences to Marauders would be that they will not have insane damage capability but more be geared towards multiple hostiles Warfare (thus the marauders sensor weakness would not apply). They would also be able to field gang modules with great efficiency (similar to T2 command ships) only that these ships would be able to survive and fight for far longer than a T2 Battlecruiser. Their defenitive points would be large tanking capbilites and the ability to fit gang link modules and field large amounts of armament (8 weapon hislots) with bonuses towards the more PVE of the two weapon systems (e.g railguns for Caldari/Gallente, Cruise Missiles for Caldari, Artillery for Minmatar and Beam lasers for Ammar), this would avoid situations of broken I-WIN ships that could engage gangs and destroy them alone although to a certain degree they should have an overall advantage to T1 battleships and not be just specialist ships as that is not their aim, they are in a TL;DR version the T2 more powerful version of battleships and outperform them in every way (thus said pricetag). They would also have the benefit of no T2 Blueprint Originals circulating and giving every player an equal chance to produce them from already abundant resources.
Now i go more indepth into each ship.. (these are mock-ups of the ingame description of each ship)
Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't have holidays. I don't leave the forums unattended. I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
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Korrakas
Caldari Legion of Ascension Beyond Ascension
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Posted - 2009.04.03 21:43:00 -
[2]
Ammar
Hull:Abaddon Name:Icarus
Flagships are the mainstay of every respectable and organised fleet, the more resilient version of their Tech Two counterparts Command Ships, these fearsome juggernauts re-new a fleets fighting spirit when they warp in with the promise of annihilation of the opposition while also outperforming their Tech One cousin battleships in every way in solo engagments.
Developer: Sarum Family
After the recent resurgence of war between the empires threatening Ammar space, under General Sarum's permission and insistence the Sarum Family shipyards commisioned the Icarus, a revision of General Sarums own Abbadon prototype famously seen singlehandedly destroying a Minmatar fleet on Scope newsfeeds. Although with some minor changes to the overall design of the ship to make it viable for mass production, the most notable being the lack of the ancient technological weapon this ship still posseses the pure destructive power of General Sarums flagship and emboldens every Ammarian fighting beside it while demoralising and terrorising foesfoolish enough to engage it.
Ammar Battleship Special Ability: 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage and 5% armor resistance per level. Flagship Speical Ability: (5 or 2)% tracking bonus to Large Beam Lasers per Level. Role Bonus: 99% reduction in Warfare Link Module CPU requirements.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't have holidays. I don't leave the forums unattended. I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
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5pinDizzy
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Posted - 2009.04.03 21:50:00 -
[3]
Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 03/04/2009 21:52:14
Gee I've never heard this idea before, nope, there definetely wasn't a threadnaught in the right forum section about this once.
My personal thoughts ;
I don't want yet another battleship variant that doesn't do anything different to any of the others.
Go find some other super expensive ship that already exists ingame to epeen with.
I think you're best hope of have an interesting addition of this kind is some possible form of tech 3 battleship although I don't know how it wouldn't be ridiculously powerful.
if you disagree with me then you should probably post a response and stop reading my signature. |
J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr Proxenetae Invicti
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Posted - 2009.04.03 21:51:00 -
[4]
Edited by: J''Mkarr Soban on 03/04/2009 21:52:05 I'm in a good mood, so I'll play the nice card. (EDIT: I didn't mean it to sound nasty. What I mean is I'm a virtual methusalah. I very rarely post, because most of the time I've seen the posts ten times over.)
This isn't the correct forum. If you read the forum descriptions, Features and Ideas is the best place to discuss this. And, as one of the ancients around here, I can tell you two things: First, you'll get ripped to shreds for not searching before posting. This comes up every week, at least. Second, if you start posting entire ship attributes, stories, writing it as if it's in game, it will get ignored. Far better to discuss an overall role, and how that role would fit with the rest of the ship line-ups. However, again, see my first point: this has been done to death.
-- These are my personal views and in no way represent the views of Proxenetae Invicti, which maintains a neutral stance stemming from the strong ethics demanded of its work. |
Korrakas
Caldari Legion of Ascension Beyond Ascension
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Posted - 2009.04.03 21:59:00 -
[5]
Gallente
Hull:Hyperion Name:Hydra
Flagships are the mainstay of every respectable and organised fleet, the more resilient version of their Tech Two counterparts Command Ships, these fearsome juggernauts re-new a fleets fighting spirit when they warp in with the promise of annihilation of the opposition while also outperforming their Tech One cousin battleships in every way in solo engagments.
Developer: Duvolle Labs
The Hydra is the answer to the low morale of the Gallente war machine in recent months. Using the much respected and feared reputation of the Hyperion class Battleship the Gallente Navy decided to capitalise on this ships history to answer the Ammarian General Saurms brianchild class of Flagships.The design was outsourced to Duvolle Labs and the Hydra was born. The Hydra like its namesake suggests can engage and pulverise multipe adversaries with its countless and deadly partice cannon batteries courtesy of Duvolle Labs trademark weapons system. When this cruelly destructive ship joins the fray the Gallente will know that today they will hold and take back their systems from the greedy Caldari.
Gallente Battleship Special Ability: 5% large hybrid weapon damage per level 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount of armor repair systems. Flagship Special Ability: 5% bonus to armor hitpoints and 10% to drone hitpoints per level.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't have holidays. I don't leave the forums unattended. I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.04.03 22:00:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Blane Xero on 03/04/2009 22:00:40
Originally by: Korrakas
Ammar
Hull:Abaddon Name:Icarus
Flagships are the mainstay of every respectable and organised fleet, the more resilient version of their Tech Two counterparts Command Ships, these fearsome juggernauts re-new a fleets fighting spirit when they warp in with the promise of annihilation of the opposition while also outperforming their Tech One cousin battleships in every way in solo engagments.
Developer: Sarum Family
After the recent resurgence of war between the empires threatening Ammar space, under General Sarum's permission and insistence the Sarum Family shipyards commisioned the Icarus, a revision of General Sarums own Abbadon prototype famously seen singlehandedly destroying a Minmatar fleet on Scope newsfeeds. Although with some minor changes to the overall design of the ship to make it viable for mass production, the most notable being the lack of the ancient technological weapon this ship still posseses the pure destructive power of General Sarums flagship and emboldens every Ammarian fighting beside it while demoralising and terrorising foesfoolish enough to engage it.
Ammar Battleship Special Ability: 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage and 5% armor resistance per level. Flagship Speical Ability: (5 or 2)% tracking bonus to Large Beam Lasers per Level. Role Bonus: 99% reduction in Warfare Link Module CPU requirements.
Its Amarr, Not Ammar.
Icarus follows the gallente naming convention, not the Amarr.
Solopwnmobile follows the WoW way of thinking, not the Eve.
Eve does not need a bigger command ship. ______________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
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Korrakas
Caldari Legion of Ascension Beyond Ascension
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Posted - 2009.04.03 22:01:00 -
[7]
ah, possibly my fourmn prowling has not fallen upon these threads, I will search for them, still seems a pity not to finish off the descriptions.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't have holidays. I don't leave the forums unattended. I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
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Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.04.03 22:03:00 -
[8]
It should be a highsec dread with no weapon slots and a big smiley face painted on the side
Pomp FTW!!! |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.04.03 22:06:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Korrakas They would also be able to field gang modules with great efficiency (similar to T2 command ships) only that these ships would be able to survive and fight for far longer than a T2 Battlecruiser. Their defenitive points would be large tanking capbilites and the ability to fit gang link modules and field large amounts of armament
So basically a larger, better-in-every-way Command Ship? No.
Obsoleting existing (and smaller) ships is a bad idea. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Lord WarATron
Amarr Shadow Reapers DAMAGE INC...
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Posted - 2009.04.03 22:06:00 -
[10]
As already been mentioned, the worst thing you could do is print ship stats etc. Never fall into this trap - focus on the role and what the ship can do that another existing ship cannot do already.
If you want to do a large fleet battle ship, then do you understand fleet battles? Most of the time, its because one side wants to take over a POS or defend a POS. Such a flagship would be primary instantly, so whats its focus?
Also avoid cost - most cost in eve is down to inefficent supply chain and multiple speculators due to how t2 production works. You could make 200mil ships like Abso's for 40-50mil (including the jita price for a prophecy). But time is not free, and thus component/reaction prices ect are high due to demand.
Anyhow focus on role and ignore everything else - that is for test server. --
Billion Isk Mission |
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Noix Arikani
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Posted - 2009.04.03 22:11:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Korrakas Edited by: Korrakas on 03/04/2009 22:08:46 ah, possibly my fourmn prowling has not fallen upon these threads, I will search for them, still seems a pity not to finish off the descriptions. Btw I am happy to see so much critisim, it helps (imo) to refine the ships so they are not as you said omgsolowtfpwn mobiles, that wasnt what i was aiming for at all, how would you suggest I changed it ? possibly no Flagship bonus and just increased hitpoints ? It wasnt an e-peen ship either I would just like to see a more used T2 variable of battleships as, and correct me if im worng I have not come across a single Marauder in a small gang and very very few in fleets (and this is becuase of the weak sensor strength is my assumption) so i was aimaing to make a Battleship variable that didnt have a weakness so crippling in the day of widespread ECM and also all the other variants of T2 battleships I saw were very specialised.
And yes on hindisght these ships would be primaried, my approach to ship descriptions may have indeed been wrong but it was the only way I could think of passing on my ideas fully for your scrutiny.
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J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr Proxenetae Invicti
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Posted - 2009.04.03 22:23:00 -
[12]
Edited by: J''Mkarr Soban on 03/04/2009 22:25:10
Originally by: Korrakas Im looking back 3-5 pages on this forum and i dont see anything about T2 Battleships or larger commandships, I wrote this becuase I wasn't seeing any suggestion to utilise the 3rd variant of Battleships available.
As I quite clearly stated, it's not this forum. It's Features and Ideas. Searching should be done using eve-search.com, or in this case, as there is such an overwhelming glut of ideas on flagships, simply putting that word into the little search box (top right, under the label called Search) will show you just how derivative and repetitive this suggestion is.
You've also completely used up my patience for tonight by not reading and following clear and concise instructions from those who know better. I am classifying you as 'irretrievable newb' because of this, I'm afraid.
-- These are my personal views and in no way represent the views of Proxenetae Invicti, which maintains a neutral stance stemming from the strong ethics demanded of its work. |
Scyala
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Posted - 2009.04.03 22:26:00 -
[13]
This role is already filled by command ships. This ship would add nothing to this role so there is no point to it. Command ships are already heavly tanked and do decent amounts of damage. Since this is a support role adding an extra high slot will not add to the role and if you want more armor add a plate or a(shield extender? I dunno shields are the red bar above my armor).
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Korrakas
Caldari Legion of Ascension Beyond Ascension
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Posted - 2009.04.03 22:30:00 -
[14]
Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban Edited by: J''Mkarr Soban on 03/04/2009 22:25:10
Originally by: Korrakas Im looking back 3-5 pages on this forum and i dont see anything about T2 Battleships or larger commandships, I wrote this becuase I wasn't seeing any suggestion to utilise the 3rd variant of Battleships available.
As I quite clearly stated, it's not this forum. It's Features and Ideas. Searching should be done using eve-search.com, or in this case, as there is such an overwhelming glut of ideas on flagships, simply putting that word into the little search box (top right, under the label called Search) will show you just how derivative and repetitive this suggestion is.
You've also completely used up my patience for tonight by not reading and following clear and concise instructions from those who know better. I am classifying you as 'irretrievable newb' because of this, I'm afraid.
im sorry to hear that, I found your posts very constructive as you had so much expirience in the matter and knew better, ah well lose some win some right sir ?
Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't have holidays. I don't leave the forums unattended. I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
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Korrakas
Caldari Legion of Ascension Beyond Ascension
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Posted - 2009.04.03 22:32:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Korrakas They would also be able to field gang modules with great efficiency (similar to T2 command ships) only that these ships would be able to survive and fight for far longer than a T2 Battlecruiser. Their defenitive points would be large tanking capbilites and the ability to fit gang link modules and field large amounts of armament
So basically a larger, better-in-every-way Command Ship? No.
Obsoleting existing (and smaller) ships is a bad idea.
With also double the pricetag and more skill requirements which would mean not everyone that flys T2 command ships wouldbe able to lose one and brush it off, although I conceed that prices cant be concretly manipulated or set according to what was planned.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't have holidays. I don't leave the forums unattended. I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.04.03 22:33:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Korrakas
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Korrakas They would also be able to field gang modules with great efficiency (similar to T2 command ships) only that these ships would be able to survive and fight for far longer than a T2 Battlecruiser. Their defenitive points would be large tanking capbilites and the ability to fit gang link modules and field large amounts of armament
So basically a larger, better-in-every-way Command Ship? No.
Obsoleting existing (and smaller) ships is a bad idea.
With also double the pricetag and more skill requirements which would mean not everyone that flys T2 command ships wouldbe able to lose one and brush it off, although I conceed that prices cant be concretly manipulated or set according to what was planned.
Price and Skills are not what people use as a deciding factor for what they will fly. ______________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
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Korrakas
Caldari Legion of Ascension Beyond Ascension
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Posted - 2009.04.03 22:35:00 -
[17]
Originally by: 5pinDizzy Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 03/04/2009 21:52:14
Gee I've never heard this idea before, nope, there definetely wasn't a threadnaught in the right forum section about this once.
My personal thoughts ;
I don't want yet another battleship variant that doesn't do anything different to any of the others.
Go find some other super expensive ship that already exists ingame to epeen with.
I think you're best hope of have an interesting addition of this kind is some possible form of tech 3 battleship although I don't know how it wouldn't be ridiculously powerful.
So why would it have to be T3 and not T2, my whole aim was that it doesnt do anything diffrent than the others and that it only does it better and thats why its super expensive (but not as expensive as Marauders). And again I do apologise for not finding this threadnaught in Ideas fourm and for not posting there (still looking for the threadnuahgt to get ideas and refinements)
Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't have holidays. I don't leave the forums unattended. I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
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Korrakas
Caldari Legion of Ascension Beyond Ascension
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Posted - 2009.04.03 22:36:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: Korrakas
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Korrakas They would also be able to field gang modules with great efficiency (similar to T2 command ships) only that these ships would be able to survive and fight for far longer than a T2 Battlecruiser. Their defenitive points would be large tanking capbilites and the ability to fit gang link modules and field large amounts of armament
So basically a larger, better-in-every-way Command Ship? No.
Obsoleting existing (and smaller) ships is a bad idea.
With also double the pricetag and more skill requirements which would mean not everyone that flys T2 command ships wouldbe able to lose one and brush it off, although I conceed that prices cant be concretly manipulated or set according to what was planned.
Price and Skills are not what people use as a deciding factor for what they will fly.
What are they then boss ? (except from if the ship is useless or broken, see BlackOps)
Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't have holidays. I don't leave the forums unattended. I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.04.03 22:47:00 -
[19]
1. Post ideas in the proper sub forum. 2. Add duplicate ideas to the thread that already exists on that topic. 3. ???? 4. Profit. -------- Ideas for: Mining
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.04.03 22:51:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Korrakas
Originally by: Blane Xero Price and Skills are not what people use as a deciding factor for what they will fly.
What are they then boss ? (except from if the ship is useless or broken, see BlackOps)
Ability. Capability. Usefulness. Fun factor.
"More expensive" is one of the worst balancing arguments ever since it's very very easy to bypass and also entirely subjective. Price only determines when and if you try to bail out of the fight and it's never a reason for completely replacing an existing ship in its primary role. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Korrakas
Caldari Legion of Ascension Beyond Ascension
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Posted - 2009.04.03 23:13:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Korrakas on 03/04/2009 23:13:17
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Korrakas
Originally by: Blane Xero Price and Skills are not what people use as a deciding factor for what they will fly.
What are they then boss ? (except from if the ship is useless or broken, see BlackOps)
Ability. Capability. Usefulness. Fun factor.
"More expensive" is one of the worst balancing arguments ever since it's very very easy to bypass and also entirely subjective. Price only determines when and if you try to bail out of the fight and it's never a reason for completely replacing an existing ship in its primary role.
Which one of the above does my design not fill and why so I can revise it, as im seeing it.. Fun Factor: The highest SP player in a Flagship leading a small gang acting as major DPS and boosting another consingment of fleet mates in smaller ships e.g cruisers, HACs, fill in as applicable. (to defend agaginst small ships that the Flagship itself wouldnt be able to track in the case of guns as hes using the less tracking variant e.g slow fire time on cruise missiles, subpar tracking on beams and rails and artys which would mean they wouldnt always win)
Whats the diffrence between ability and capability ? My dictionary came up with the following : a-bil-i-ty ûnoun, plural -ties. 1. power or capacity to do or act physically, mentally, legally, morally, financially, etc. 2. competence in an activity or occupation because of one's skill, training, or other qualification: the ability to sing well. 3. abilities, talents; special skills or aptitudes: Composing music is beyond his abilities. Origin: 1350û1400; ME (h)abilite < MF < L habilitās aptitude, equiv. to habili(s) handy (see able ) + -tās -ty 2 ; r. ME ablete < OF < L, as above Synonyms: 1. capability
So ill take both as one and re-iterate once again their abilites, High tanking, Bonuses to non-conventional PVP weapons system, basically acting as the Battleship equivalent of T2 command ships (as most commandships are used for PVP instead of boosting and are rarely fit with their intended gang modules) Basically as I see it Battleships in the PVP zone end at T1 with BlackOps being broken, Marauders getting jammed by unbonused cruisers while all other subcaptial ship classes having a secondary more powerful PVP variant see Command Ships for BCs, HACs for Cruisers, AFs for Frigates and destroyers lacking in even their T1 vavriation so why do you so vehmently oppose a said variant for battleships ? (which would also contribute to their fun factor as every pilot aspires to fly the T2 variants of cruisers, frigates and BCs if the ISK is available)
Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't have holidays. I don't leave the forums unattended. I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
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Korrakas
Caldari Legion of Ascension Beyond Ascension
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Posted - 2009.04.03 23:17:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Abrazzar 1. Post ideas in the proper sub forum. 2. Add duplicate ideas to the thread that already exists on that topic. 3. ???? 4. Profit.
So you are refusing to critisise and help me improve these ships cause I posted in the worng subfourm ? fair enough, but I find the most intelligent and critical amongst you frequent GD and this is where I would get maximum exposure and the greatest breadth of ideas and critisms (which I do want to hear becuase without bucketlaods of it these ships would be broken and not worth even contemplating ingame)
Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't have holidays. I don't leave the forums unattended. I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
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Haradgrim
Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2009.04.03 23:21:00 -
[23]
They're right, this has been discussed to death (in the right sub-forum), as I've said before; the only thing that I think a new T2 battleship is needed for is fleet fights. However, the goal should be to make it something that isn't overpowered but the enemy doesn't automatically want to primary.....
to do that you have to think outside the box, i.e. a ship that takes damage for and instead of the other ships in the same wing and recieves a bonus to remote reps being used on it (or something, I'm just giving examples), or it could perhaps allow all the ships in the same wing to share their cap reserves (but use their own regen).... the goal is not to make a ship that just has more hp or dps than a t1 BS and not give it a bonus that will just force the enemy to primary it the moment it appears on the field. --
Originally by: CCP Oveur Just donæt forget the reach-around.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.04.03 23:26:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Korrakas
Originally by: Tippia Ability. Capability. Usefulness. Fun factor.
"More expensive" is one of the worst balancing arguments ever since it's very very easy to bypass and also entirely subjective. Price only determines when and if you try to bail out of the fight and it's never a reason for completely replacing an existing ship in its primary role.
Which one of the above does my design not fill and why so I can revise it, as im seeing it..
Thats the point. It has no real downsides beside being more expensive and skill intensive, than a command ship. You cannot simply introduce a ship that is the same, but bigger/better/stronger. You cannot simply justify all the pro's with the two cons "More Expensive/Skill Intensive" and even if you bothered to throw in "But its slower" thats still not enough.
For years people avoided AFs for favour over HACs. ______________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
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Korrakas
Caldari Legion of Ascension Beyond Ascension
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Posted - 2009.04.03 23:26:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Haradgrim They're right, this has been discussed to death (in the right sub-forum), as I've said before; the only thing that I think a new T2 battleship is needed for is fleet fights. However, the goal should be to make it something that isn't overpowered but the enemy doesn't automatically want to primary.....
to do that you have to think outside the box, i.e. a ship that takes damage for and instead of the other ships in the same wing and recieves a bonus to remote reps being used on it (or something, I'm just giving examples), or it could perhaps allow all the ships in the same wing to share their cap reserves (but use their own regen).... the goal is not to make a ship that just has more hp or dps than a t1 BS and not give it a bonus that will just force the enemy to primary it the moment it appears on the field.
now that was useful, ill see what I can do with that..
Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't have holidays. I don't leave the forums unattended. I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.04.03 23:45:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Korrakas Which one of the above does my design not fill and why so I can revise it, as im seeing it..[etc]
Eh? Yes? I think you missed the point of the comment, and rather reinforced what we were saying. Yes, your suggestion has interesting abilities and fun factor, which meanas that it is likely to be used regardless of cost. As far as capability goes, it either lives up to its role or it doesn't, in which case it will not be used no matter what. This, in turn, means that cost is a non-issue and thus not a useful balancing factor (then again, it never is, so that's no surprise).
Quote: so why do you so vehmently oppose a said variant for battleships ?
Because we already have a ship class that does what you're proposing: Command ships. There is no reason to just add a bigger version.
If you want a T2 Battleship called a Flag Ship, then start out by figuring out what it should do. What role is there that isn't already filled by another ship class? What are the defining characteristics of this role? What abilities would this represent in game mechanics terms? What capabilities are required to make these abilities useful?
The problem with your suggestion is this: What role does it have? Same as command ships — no go. What is the defining characteristics of this role? Support — fair enough. What abilities does it represent? Command bonuses, same as CS — no go. What capabilities are required? Tanking, same as CS — no go.
What you have to play with is the support characteristics, and these can be implemented in a number of ways that aren't covered by the existing logistics and command ships. This means you should think outside the realm of warfare links and remote modules. If you cannot think of any new abilities that aren't covered by these two ship classes, then you need to consider that maybe there's just no room for what you want in the game.
Quote: Whats the diffrence between ability and capability?
Ability: what it can do. Capability: how well it plays out. Eg. black-ops have the covert jump ability, but are about as capable as a wet blanket due to overall weakness, crippled jump capacity and lack of usefulness for the jump ability itself. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.04.03 23:54:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Korrakas Which one of the above does my design not fill and why so I can revise it, as im seeing it..[etc]
Eh? Yes? I think you missed the point of the comment, and rather reinforced what we were saying. Yes, your suggestion has interesting abilities and fun factor, which meanas that it is likely to be used regardless of cost. As far as capability goes, it either lives up to its role or it doesn't, in which case it will not be used no matter what. This, in turn, means that cost is a non-issue and thus not a useful balancing factor (then again, it never is, so that's no surprise).
Quote: so why do you so vehmently oppose a said variant for battleships ?
Because we already have a ship class that does what you're proposing: Command ships. There is no reason to just add a bigger version.
If you want a T2 Battleship called a Flag Ship, then start out by figuring out what it should do. What role is there that isn't already filled by another ship class? What are the defining characteristics of this role? What abilities would this represent in game mechanics terms? What capabilities are required to make these abilities useful?
The problem with your suggestion is this: What role does it have? Same as command ships ù no go. What is the defining characteristics of this role? Support ù fair enough. What abilities does it represent? Command bonuses, same as CS ù no go. What capabilities are required? Tanking, same as CS ù no go.
What you have to play with is the support characteristics, and these can be implemented in a number of ways that aren't covered by the existing logistics and command ships. This means you should think outside the realm of warfare links and remote modules. If you cannot think of any new abilities that aren't covered by these two ship classes, then you need to consider that maybe there's just no room for what you want in the game.
Quote: Whats the diffrence between ability and capability?
Ability: what it can do. Capability: how well it plays out. Eg. black-ops have the covert jump ability, but are about as capable as a wet blanket due to overall weakness, crippled jump capacity and lack of usefulness for the jump ability itself.
______________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
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Nicholas Barker
Black Nova Corp KenZoku
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Posted - 2009.04.03 23:55:00 -
[28]
remote rep bonus, awesome tank, uses gang mods.
probably a different name than flagship for something like that though.
A flagship is just the lead ship, which can be anything at any time. ------
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Korrakas
Caldari Legion of Ascension Beyond Ascension
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Posted - 2009.04.03 23:59:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Korrakas Which one of the above does my design not fill and why so I can revise it, as im seeing it..[etc]
Eh? Yes? I think you missed the point of the comment, and rather reinforced what we were saying. Yes, your suggestion has interesting abilities and fun factor, which meanas that it is likely to be used regardless of cost. As far as capability goes, it either lives up to its role or it doesn't, in which case it will not be used no matter what. This, in turn, means that cost is a non-issue and thus not a useful balancing factor (then again, it never is, so that's no surprise).
Quote: so why do you so vehmently oppose a said variant for battleships ?
Because we already have a ship class that does what you're proposing: Command ships. There is no reason to just add a bigger version.
If you want a T2 Battleship called a Flag Ship, then start out by figuring out what it should do. What role is there that isn't already filled by another ship class? What are the defining characteristics of this role? What abilities would this represent in game mechanics terms? What capabilities are required to make these abilities useful?
The problem with your suggestion is this: What role does it have? Same as command ships ù no go. What is the defining characteristics of this role? Support ù fair enough. What abilities does it represent? Command bonuses, same as CS ù no go. What capabilities are required? Tanking, same as CS ù no go.
What you have to play with is the support characteristics, and these can be implemented in a number of ways that aren't covered by the existing logistics and command ships. This means you should think outside the realm of warfare links and remote modules. If you cannot think of any new abilities that aren't covered by these two ship classes, then you need to consider that maybe there's just no room for what you want in the game.
Quote: Whats the diffrence between ability and capability?
Ability: what it can do. Capability: how well it plays out. Eg. black-ops have the covert jump ability, but are about as capable as a wet blanket due to overall weakness, crippled jump capacity and lack of usefulness for the jump ability itself.
My point was that Command Ships end up acting outside of their intended role e.g just a more beefed up version of BCs and every other subcapital ship has this T2 variant, so why shouldnt battleships have it ? From what you answered it seems like you didnt read my post and just cherrypicked quotes, you like another poster said to think outside the box about support which I will do, but about the part of each subcaptial having a T2 PVP version HACs,AFs,Command Ships and Battleships do not have that useful and fun and accesible T2 PVP variant that the other subcapital classes do..
Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't have holidays. I don't leave the forums unattended. I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.04.04 00:04:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Blane Xero on 04/04/2009 00:05:48 Edited by: Blane Xero on 04/04/2009 00:05:18
Originally by: Korrakas My point was that Command Ships end up acting outside of their intended role e.g just a more beefed up version of BCs and every other subcapital ship has this T2 variant, so why shouldnt battleships have it ? From what you answered it seems like you didnt read my post and just cherrypicked quotes, you like another poster said to think outside the box about support which I will do, but about the part of each subcaptial having a T2 PVP version HACs,AFs,Command Ships and Battleships do not have that useful and fun and accesible T2 PVP variant that the other subcapital classes do..
Frigates do not have a ganglink-boosting T2 variant. Cruisers do not have a ganglink-boosting T2 variant. Destroyers do not have a ganglink-boosting T2 variant. Battlecruisers DO have a ganglink-boosting T2 ship. Battleships do not have a ganglink-boosting T2 ship.
Tier 2 Battlecruisers (period) do not have a T2 variant. Tier 3 Battleships (period) do not have a T2 variant.
In any case, you need to read what i posted a bit earlier aswell if you have not. Comprehend it. Tak the Critisism and Admit to the follies.
Also, you are not asking for a "just buffed up variant" of the Tier 3 Battleships, you are asking for a "just buffed up" command ship. ______________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
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