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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Sorceror Majiir
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.07.22 18:28:00 -
[601] - Quote
Corina:
The use of exploits is common, case in point, the ole drop crap loads of cans around a gate is an exploit when you reach a certain # of cans. YET, the only way the gankers gets caught is if, WHILE THE CANS ARE DEPLOYED, a GM sees them. Screens don't count.. CCP refuses to accept player screenshots.. So while there are a lot of bannable things, the reality is, some are unenforceable due to the need of GM's to be present to see them.
- Majiir |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1091
|
Posted - 2012.07.22 18:33:00 -
[602] - Quote
Sorceror Majiir wrote:Corina:
The use of exploits is common, case in point, the ole drop crap loads of cans around a gate is an exploit when you reach a certain # of cans. YET, the only way the gankers gets caught is if, WHILE THE CANS ARE DEPLOYED, a GM sees them. Screens don't count.. CCP refuses to accept player screenshots.. So while there are a lot of bannable things, the reality is, some are unenforceable due to the need of GM's to be present to see them.
- Majiir Wrong. It is only an exploit if it causes lag.
You can have 2 billion cans if it doesn't cause lag (can cloud of doom). Not going to happen, but if it did, there would be no problem.
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Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
26
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Posted - 2012.07.22 18:49:00 -
[603] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:Zyella Stormborn wrote:Corina Jarr wrote: This game is for a specific set of players. CCP knew this when they started. They shouldn't cater to another type of player, and risk losing the ones that kept them afloat (and thrived, for as few as they have).
Actually I see the words 'sand box', and something for everyone, thrown around a lot. (not picking a particular side, but I must have missed the post where CCP said they only cater to a tiny market and arent interested in growth). Sorry, I wasn't clear... The "specific set of players" is hopefully a rather large set, that being ones who know they will get shot at and make changes to lessen the chance or effect of it. IE, adapters. The players they should not cater to are the ones who want CCP to make the changes that are already available to the players, so that they can do whatever in peace. And EVE is not a sandbox... there are some rules. As much as people like to claim it, a true sandbox cannot exist as a multiplayer game (well, maybe minecraft...). Its self destructive.
You are correct, I misread what your meaning was. I understand (and agree) now. |
Sorceror Majiir
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.22 18:50:00 -
[604] - Quote
"This game is for a specific set of players. CCP knew this when they started. They shouldn't cater to another type of player, and risk losing the ones that kept them afloat (and thrived, for as few as they have)."
hahaha, complete hogwash. having played Eve from the beginning, I assure you it's been the constant "whine" of gankers wanting a free lunch that has driven much of what you see today in HS. There was a time when you simply insta popped due to massive fire, trying to attack someone in HS. Couldn't be done. But oh no, poor gankers simply had to have something easy to kill, can't afford the loses because they wont spend time generating income, and have little interest in trying to promote the game to new players.
"The "specific set of players" is hopefully a rather large set, that being ones who know they will get shot at and make changes to lessen the chance or effect of it. IE, adapters."
Say what?? Please tell me your not involved in business anywhere, if so tell me the company so i can short their stock.
"The players they should not cater to are the ones who want CCP to make the changes that are already available to the players, so that they can do whatever in peace."
Uhh, CCP has done nothing but change the game from the beginning, both for the peacenics and the perps. Case in point - Used to be you had to fly to gates from 15km out.. mucho ganking occurred, players BM'd insta warps 15km behind the gates so they could land on them, and CCP changed to warp 0, introduced the warp bubble, etc etc.
- Majiir |
Sorceror Majiir
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.22 20:14:00 -
[605] - Quote
Corina: "Wrong. It is only an exploit if it causes lag.
You can have 2 billion cans if it doesn't cause lag (can cloud of doom). Not going to happen, but if it did, there would be no problem."
Well not true. A lot of folks think its just a lag issue since that's clear in the EULA. But, it's not just that. There are a lot of posts on this topic, but from the current open ticket I have on this issue, the GM response has been, to paraphrase "we know it's an exploit, but cannot do anything unless we see it". Can't show you the log sorry. However, if you would like to verify for yourself; Drop about 100 cans or so in a spherical pattern around a low sec gate, kick back, blast guys who decloak or bounce, and chat with the GM when he arrives.
- Majiir |
Danks
Fat Angry Toe Tappin Inbreds
81
|
Posted - 2012.07.22 20:50:00 -
[606] - Quote
Sorceror Majiir wrote:hahaha, complete hogwash. having played Eve from the beginning, I assure you it's been the constant "whine" of gankers wanting a free lunch that has driven much of what you see today in HS. There was a time when you simply insta popped due to massive fire, trying to attack someone in HS. Couldn't be done. But oh no, poor gankers simply had to have something easy to kill, can't afford the loses because they wont spend time generating income, and have little interest in trying to promote the game to new players.- Majiir
Are you saying that you used to not be able to kill someone in high security space? That you'd be killed before you could kill them?
Forgive me asking for you to clarify this specific point, but your inability to properly quote is a bit confusing. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1096
|
Posted - 2012.07.22 20:51:00 -
[607] - Quote
Sorceror Majiir wrote:Corina: "Wrong. It is only an exploit if it causes lag.
You can have 2 billion cans if it doesn't cause lag (can cloud of doom). Not going to happen, but if it did, there would be no problem."
Well not true. A lot of folks think its just a lag issue since that's clear in the EULA. But, it's not just that. There are a lot of posts on this topic, but from the current open ticket I have on this issue, the GM response has been, to paraphrase "we know it's an exploit, but cannot do anything unless we see it". Can't show you the log sorry. However, if you would like to verify for yourself; Drop about 100 cans or so in a spherical pattern around a low sec gate, kick back, blast guys who decloak or bounce, and chat with the GM when he arrives.
- Majiir There has been plenty of GM discussions on this, even on the forums. It is ONLY an exploit if it causes lag.
Otherwise it is a legitimate decloaking tactic.
Can't comment on the bumping, because I've never seen it, nor know exactly what you are referring to. |
Pipa Porto
467
|
Posted - 2012.07.23 13:31:00 -
[608] - Quote
Sorceror Majiir wrote:Astro: Fair enough, I don't know the subscriber base numbers for Eve, nor how many they have lost over the years, nor how many are multiples from the same people.
http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png
Here you go. EVE's the Blue Line.
It's currently the Third Largest Paid Western MMO by Subscriptions (no MMO tries to publicly track the number of players). 5th Largest including Runescape and SL, which are FTP. They're also pretty much the only MMO around that doesn't have the massive spike followed by a crash trend line (I'd say that means their growth is anything but crippled).
Anyway, there is no aspect in EVE that does not put you in competition with other players. That's PVP. If you don't like spaceships shooting each other, that's fine, you can mitigate the direct effects it has on you.
If you like manufacturing, the only reason there's a significant market for whatever you're making is that people are blowing ships up. If you like running missions, the only reason there's a significant market for whatever you're cashing your LP for is that people are blowing shiny ships up. And so on.
EVE's not moving towards a violent funhouse, it started out as one. If anything, it is getting safer and safer for people in HS all the time (Right now, CCP's considering a measure that will cause a 5-8fold increase in the cost to gank Freighters and that was originally going to allow Logis to rep without being shootable in certain situations). EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
Pipa Porto
467
|
Posted - 2012.07.23 13:35:00 -
[609] - Quote
Sorceror Majiir wrote: There was a time when you simply insta popped due to massive fire, trying to attack someone in HS. Couldn't be done. But oh no, poor gankers simply had to have something easy to kill, can't afford the loses because they wont spend time generating income, and have little interest in trying to promote the game to new players.
No, there wasn't. You're confusing EVE with some other game.
There was, on the other hand, a time when you could Tank CONCORD (look up the Yulai incident with Zombies).
HS has never been safe. It's just got its own mechanics for combat that you have to deal with and plan for. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1097
|
Posted - 2012.07.23 14:47:00 -
[610] - Quote
SWG has finally died? |
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CorInaXeraL
Order of the Silver Dragons Silver Dragonz
58
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Posted - 2012.07.23 15:21:00 -
[611] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:SWG has finally died?
Didn't it shut down 15 Dec 2011? |
Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
30
|
Posted - 2012.07.23 18:17:00 -
[612] - Quote
Ah, Dark Age of Camelot. That was my favorite game for the longest time. I miss my Nightshade and Cabalist. ;P |
Pipa Porto
469
|
Posted - 2012.07.23 21:25:00 -
[613] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:SWG has finally died?
Yep. From what I hear, people complained about the risk of losing their stuff to unexpected PVP, so they removed that. Then people complained about losing their stuff in expected PVP, so they removed that. You could ram your ship into other ships over and over and your ship would just respawn. Then it died. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
Ra Jackson
PILSGESCHWADER Monkey Circus
18
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Posted - 2012.07.23 22:12:00 -
[614] - Quote
Sorceror Majiir wrote:Corina: "Wrong. It is only an exploit if it causes lag.
You can have 2 billion cans if it doesn't cause lag (can cloud of doom). Not going to happen, but if it did, there would be no problem."
Well not true. A lot of folks think its just a lag issue since that's clear in the EULA. But, it's not just that. There are a lot of posts on this topic, but from the current open ticket I have on this issue, the GM response has been, to paraphrase "we know it's an exploit, but cannot do anything unless we see it".
Well, they want to see the gate to check if it's lagging or not. Isn't that obvious? And only then is it handled as an exploit. And stop telling that "bumping" tale. That's getting ridiculous. |
Amy Tian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 06:10:00 -
[615] - Quote
Jeremy Firewind wrote:Hey,
I find it totally untolarable, that 3 1 mill Isk ships can easily gank my tanked 300mill hull. Sorry, but this makes me really sad. It put me out of business for good, that was my last money. Your cool event just cost CCP a subscriber.
Yes tears are delightful, yadda, yadda, no stuff is to be had, because it all exploded.
MAKE FRIENDS GO TO NULLSEC!!!
Seriously though, nullsec/whs have the ability of being much safer. You just need to pick the right space with the right people, there are plenty of indy corps part of Sov alliances that would probably take you in, and possibly even reimburse you for losses. Lose less ships and mine better roids?
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Sorceror Majiir
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 07:11:00 -
[616] - Quote
Pipa: The graph your showing comes from MMOdata.net. What your not showing is the next graph up.. the 1m-12m subscriber graph. Eve would be below the first semi axis mark around 361k subscribers on this graph.
1m-12m subs
What I mentioned earlier somewhere is that Eve has not grown instep with the overall market. What I'm suggesting is that one of the reasons is linked to loss of subscribers, with a one cause of that being ganking.
To all the wanna be economists: I'm pretty sure no one in this thread has actually modelled the Eve economy. I'm willing to bet their own staff economist is scratching his/her head most of the time. Personally, I really don't see a problem with low materials cost, lower ships cost, etc.. it just means bigger ships will be flown because the material are cheap and readily available to manufacturers. What I DO see as a problem is ganks in HS - and by gank I mean a non consensual pvp. Forgetting about all the dogma about how good it is for the game, what I'm suggesting is your running people off. Many of you argue this is a good thing... which is complete nonsense imo.
For any aspiring economist / psychologist working on affects of emotional utility and aggression in a gaming environment.. there's a great thesis here.
Astro: get over yourself
Danks: yeah that's what I said.
- Majiir
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Pipa Porto
474
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 07:26:00 -
[617] - Quote
Sorceror Majiir wrote:Pipa: The graph your showing comes from MMOdata.net. What your not showing is the next graph up.. the 1m-12m subscriber graph. Eve would be below the first semi axis mark around 361k subscribers on this graph. 1m-12m subsWhat I mentioned earlier somewhere is that Eve has not grown instep with the overall market. What I'm suggesting is that one of the reasons is linked to loss of subscribers, with a one cause of that being ganking.
You're not great at reading graphs, are you?
Count the number of MMOs who are still alive on that 1-12m graph.
There's WOW, Aion (a Korean MMO, so not Western), SWOTOR, and Runescape (a FTP).
Above EVE on the 100k -1m graph is Second Life (a FTP).
WOW and SWOTOR have enormous companies backing them. Blizzard's the Jesus of Game companies, and the worlds largest multimedia franchise is behind SWOTOR. Aion's the top Korean MMO. They're all outliers (the clue is that they're an order of magnitude bigger than most other MMOs).
That puts EVE at 3rd largest Paid Western, 4th Largest Paid Worldwide, and 6th Largest MMO including FTP.
EVE's also unique in that it doesn't have the spike and fall graph that so many other MMOs have, including SWOTOR, Aion, and WOW. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
Ra Jackson
PILSGESCHWADER Monkey Circus
18
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 07:59:00 -
[618] - Quote
Sorceror Majiir wrote: What I mentioned earlier somewhere is that Eve has not grown instep with the overall market. What I'm suggesting is that one of the reasons is linked to loss of subscribers, with a one cause of that being ganking.
Eve is the only MMO still growing subscriber numbers (after over 9 years) so wtf are you talking about? |
Danks
Fat Angry Toe Tappin Inbreds
82
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 16:35:00 -
[619] - Quote
Sorceror Majiir wrote:
Danks: yeah that's what I said.
- Majiir
If you are referring to this:
Danks wrote: Are you saying that you used to not be able to kill someone in high security space? That you'd be killed before you could kill them?
Forgive me asking for you to clarify this specific point, but your inability to properly quote is a bit confusing.
You are incorrect. You've always been able to kill someone in High Sec, it's actually harder today than it used to be. Buffing of gate guns and making Concord untankable are two examples of this.
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Sorceror Majiir
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 19:11:00 -
[620] - Quote
Danks: No actually I'm right. I know for a fact because we tried. We (the corp) we're experimenting with ganks in high sec, mostly to see if you could run from Concord at the time. Insta pop.. no damage to target, every single time. So we moved off to more lucrative targets, this was way before bubbles, back when you had to fly to gate etc - yeah I was on the dark side for many years early in the game. Seems I even recall Celestial Horizon, though at the time we warred with Celestial Apoc. in Vale and Geminate. Now I'm a born again evangelist for new players and anti ganking.
- Majiir |
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Pipa Porto
478
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 19:16:00 -
[621] - Quote
Sorceror Majiir wrote:Danks: No actually I'm right. I know for a fact because we tried. We (the corp) we're experimenting with ganks in high sec, mostly to see if you could run from Concord at the time. Insta pop.. no damage to target, every single time. So we moved off to more lucrative targets, this was way before bubbles, back when you had to fly to gate etc - yeah I was on the dark side for many years early in the game. Seems I even recall Celestial Horizon, though at the time we warred with Celestial Apoc. in Vale and Geminate. Now I'm a born again evangelist for new players and anti ganking.
- Majiir
Then you were Hilariously bad at the game. Ganking people in HS has always been possible. Before CONCORD became untankable, it just wasn't a suicide gank, because there wasn't a Suicide.
Look up the Yulai incident. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
Danks
Fat Angry Toe Tappin Inbreds
82
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 19:21:00 -
[622] - Quote
Sorceror Majiir wrote:Danks: No actually I'm right. I know for a fact because we tried. We (the corp) we're experimenting with ganks in high sec, mostly to see if you could run from Concord at the time. Insta pop.. no damage to target, every single time. So we moved off to more lucrative targets, this was way before bubbles, back when you had to fly to gate etc - yeah I was on the dark side for many years early in the game. Seems I even recall Celestial Horizon, though at the time we warred with Celestial Apoc. in Vale and Geminate. Now I'm a born again evangelist for new players and anti ganking.
- Majiir
Wow, not sure what game you've been playing. Suicide ganks have always been a part of high sec. When I started back in 2004 it was Kestrels loaded with cruise missles killing badgers.
I would suggest learning how to play the game as well as the history if you want to be taken seriously. |
Sorceror Majiir
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 19:25:00 -
[623] - Quote
Danks: My game start was 2003.5.10
- Majiir |
Astroniomix
Thorn Project Black Thorne Alliance
105
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 19:53:00 -
[624] - Quote
Sorceror Majiir wrote:Danks: My game start was 2003.5.10
- Majiir Post with your main. Until that time, you are lying through your teeth. (or keyboard in this case) |
Danks
Fat Angry Toe Tappin Inbreds
82
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 20:26:00 -
[625] - Quote
Sorceror Majiir wrote:Danks: My game start was 2003.5.10
- Majiir
Back when you could tank Concord. You're either and idiot or a Troll. I'm guessing Troll, and I bit hard. Good job dude. |
Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
30
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 21:21:00 -
[626] - Quote
Hate to get in the middle of a pissing contest, but I also have been off and on the game since 2004. I do not remember all the details, but I do remember distinctly ganking us carebears being MUCH easier back then. It was almost abusive, lol. Now at least they have a chance to get away. I also remember when a corp held of Concord for a few hours while they killed just about every thing that came through one of the gates (myself included at the time, in my Badger MkII). Not sure, but that may be the "Yulai incident" mentioned above. Its been too long to remember details. |
Sorceror Majiir
EVE Arena Systems Inc.
4
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 21:32:00 -
[627] - Quote
Guys: Just relating my experience from way back, believe, don't believe, as you like. I don't recall how long it lasted, but I distinctly remember trying to gank miners in HS belts, using several different ship types, and getting insta popped over and over.. corp couldn't do it either, so we trotted off to low sec, then out to null sec. CCP has constantly changed stuff so maybe this was pre what you guys remember, dunno.. Just sayin, this is what happened. |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
603
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 13:34:00 -
[628] - Quote
I necro'z you'ze!!
HA-HA!!
E:
Is it to be being URP-SPLOSION TYME naow, pls? Meta-gaming for carebears:
Whine on the forums like a little ***** until CCP gets sick of you and hands you everything you ask for just to shut you up. |
Ingen Ruaidh
Northwest Industries International Technical Exploration Conglomerate of Hemera
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 18:40:00 -
[629] - Quote
Why do people play a MMORPG with the sole intention of grinding isk to afford PLEX? Hulkageddon is the best thing that ever happened to EVE. |
Sarik Olecar
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
65
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 19:32:00 -
[630] - Quote
Ingen Ruaidh wrote:Why do people play a MMORPG with the sole intention of grinding isk to afford PLEX? Hulkageddon is the best thing that ever happened to EVE.
Now Helicity, alt postings bad mmmkay... |
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