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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1926
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 13:51:00 -
[91] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote: Cute. Trying to redefine the term passive income, so it can't be applied to this paritcular activity. Why even bother? By your definition there is no passive income in the game, so the entire term becomes meaningless. You're not going to convince anyone with your semantic games and even if you do, you wouldn't have made an argument for preserving it.
Tippia wrote:GǪaside from the process of generating RP, which is what's generating the value. Everything about it that matters is passive, and it's this passive generation is being devalued.
Danfen Fenix wrote:Under this logic, there is nothing that can be called passive income in game. Yet, PI is one such system that is largely agreed to be passive (despite that fact that you...train the skills...set up the infrastructure...travel to the planets...import/export goods....transport goods to markets. Nothing passive at all ) There is no effort at all in RP & datacores. Hence why people set up multiple accounts just to farm them. This is the system they want to change.
Yeah, keep telling yourselves that. Doesn't matter how you try to portray it, still doesn't make it right. CCP has in the past made a lot of fail changes to this game and this is just another example of them doing it again.
Ironically my posted reply has the most 'Likes' in this entire thread. I'd say that's a good indication that you fail in trying to discredit my statement.
Like I said before, the accumulation of Research Points from R&D Agents to redeem Data Cores is not passive income. It's a low gain investment return which takes a very long time to recoup all the time and ISK spent in training skills and building up standings for access before it even remotely resembles positive income. |
Danfen Fenix
Vita Aequitas Veritas The Paganism Alliance
65
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 14:27:00 -
[92] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Ironically my posted reply has the most 'Likes' in this entire thread. I'd say that's a good indication that you fail in trying to discredit my statement. .
Wow...just...wow wtf is this...EVEbook ?
Ok, Mr 'Popularity'...please explain how PI can be classed as passive income, while RP generation can not. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6407
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Posted - 2012.05.04 14:29:00 -
[93] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Yeah, keep telling yourselves that. Calling something passive GÇ£passiveGÇ¥? Yes, I think I will keep doing that, since it's the right thing to call it.
Quote:CCP has in the past made a lot of fail changes to this game and this is just another example of them doing it again. How so?
Quote:Like I said before, the accumulation of Research Points from R&D Agents to redeem Data Cores is not passive income. GǪyou mean side from the accumulation of RP GÇö the thing that is generating value GÇö being completely passive? If it's not passive for you, you should probably bug report it because it is for everyone else. You literally have to do nothing for the RP to accumulate. Sure, you can run additional dailies to increase the RP accrued, but that is completely optional GÇö you can also do nothing and get RP anyway.
Quote:[it] takes a very long time to recoup all the time and ISK spent in training skills and building up standings for access So what? Just because you need to set it up doesn't make it any less passive GÇö you're still doing nothing to make the RP accumulate. What you're arguing is essentially that a passive tank isn't passive because you have to fit modules for it to work. In fact, considering how many modules you have to fit, a passive tank is the most active tanks of all if you want to go by that logic.
Of course, that's just nonsensical. A passive tank is passive because it regenerates HP on its own without any external help; RP accumulation is passive because it generates RP on its own without any external help. The set up process to make either happen does not change the passive nature of these (re)generation processes. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
56
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 03:01:00 -
[94] - Quote
cant.... let Tippia win... I've commented repeatedly that behavior in game reveals a truth about a person in their real life as well. Never has that been demonstrated so successfully in the alliance panel this year at Fanfest. Issler-á ---- Your VOTED CSM |
Antisocial Malkavian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 14:51:00 -
[95] - Quote
aww but this was fun tin foil http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.2317/JKES0811.17.1 Bees That Drink Human Tears -- ITS SCIENCE!!! |
Joran Dravius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 09:09:00 -
[96] - Quote
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:Thorn Galen wrote:Lapine Davion wrote:I like how when a Dev does something people don't like, they automatically assume it's because that Dev is a Goon. You people are literally braindead. In defence of the Zombies, CCP Soundwave was once a Goon, circa 2007. Funny thing, when I saw his look when he was talking about the possible destruction of the datacore system, I thought, damn he SOUNDS like a Goon. He's positively giddy. Then I found out he was one. Funny huh? Yeah cause it's really unusual for devs to look happy about fixing broken game systems like faction warfare. You carebears are so obsessed with goons you're probably going to blame them for global warming next. |
Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum KUGUTSUMEN.
528
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 09:53:00 -
[97] - Quote
So people actually think that datacore farming isn't passive now? Do you have to actively do missions for every datacore? Do you have to go kill a rat for every data core? Do you even need to log in for each data core? No you don't, the fact that you just need to go to the RP agent once in a blue moon and cash out means it is a passive income, at least as passive as you're going to get in Eve.
However I do disagree with the idea of moving datacores to FW. Unless of coarse they only move the racial ones then I can understand. The problem with FW isn't its profitability, and until CCP realizes this the sooner they can fix it. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
65
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 12:08:00 -
[98] - Quote
Joran Dravius: aoe missiles from beta
youre qq at them for something thats NOT IN THE GAME ANYMORE..... or are you talking Bombs too? try logging in O.o AOE torps would be cool imo if the damaged everything within the AOE - including you and your drones - I can imagine the QQ and WTF CCP
Joran Dravius: hiring t20, not firing t20, nex store
me: agreed, bullshit Icelandic laws are bullshit, pay to win is bullshit. EVERY MMO Ive seen introduce such bullshit ends up going free to play within a year of such a store showing up AND starts the downhill slide with "Vanity Items Only" Then you start seeing things like the learning boost implants you an use on older characters not just the first month.
Joran Dravius: Permacloakers
Me: Other than the spy factor, why? (Obviously I havent been in 0.0 much not due to QQ moar highsec but Ive been there more than a few times. I dont like the cockroach mentality. *click light (unknown in system)* *scatter (warp to POS/Station)*
Joran Dravius: Local
Me: Why do ppl QQ about local so much? OK, I can see where it would be dumb in lowsec and 0.0 where those are supposed to be lawless or frontier areas. Ive always rationalized local as a CONCORD information system. They have indestructable ships and u-cant-tank-destructo-beam weaponry, why the hell NOT a info system across highsec? Hell, I could see a module for a 0.0 system to be able to set up local for that system if you get the system buit up enough. IE POS/Military/Industrial level.
Joran Drabius: neutral logi
Me: unless this is something other than what I think it is, its neutral logistics ships repping ppl in wars? Set it up like WoW and most other PVP flag type games. You become a target if you heal (repair) someone in a war for a period of time.
Joran Drabius: wardec shedding, making said shedding not an exploit anymore
Me: I do believe theyre doing this next expansion... I could be wrong but dont decs follow you? You cant just drop corp and aggressors cant leave the corp if they started the war? If Im wrong, please correct me.
Joran Drabius: Using dev powers to break up m0o camps
Me: Either I said it or I saw it said (2 hrs sleep makes things fuzzy). CCP either cannot me allowed to play their own game or need to plan it out EXACTLY as its meant to be developed and hire someone else to do it cause its pretty obvious there are more than a few there who view corp relationships higher that their personal or the game's integrity.
Joran Drabius: all the useless modules
Me: true
Joran Drabius: Ship Tiers
Me: How would you do it? Not being snarky or trolling, sincerely interested.
Joran Dravius: lv5 missions
Me: Care to elaborate? That they exist at all? That they in low/0.0 only? Missions in general?
Joran Dravius: mittens's ban
Me: Also elaborate or were you a Goon? They seem of a mind about it is why I ask. Personally I think if I had the connectiobns he had and I were to use my in game connections/alliance to try to influence someone to do that, Hell even if you didnt have as many friends/influence as him, if you had even a high sec alliance of 20-40 ppl, and you told your corpmates to pester someone for the point of getting them to kill themself (drunk or not - I heard EVE radio - "It was a stupid DRUNKEN ******* thing to do" yeah he DID blame the booze) I would expect a permaban now 30 days. I honestly believe his friends got him a reduced sentence
Joran Dravius: *takes a deep breath* Incursions
Me: As infinite MASSIVE freaking money spewwing isk geysers, yes, but an actual PVE reason to work together in High sec would be cool too.
Joran Dravius: bounty system
Me: Doesnt it feel like this was an idea that could have been really cool but was corrupted into a bank system by the players lol The whole get a friend to kill you an get the bounty money thing...
Joran Dravius: faction warefare
Me: The entire idea? Or more specific things? Cause honestly the idea of being able to capture systems in high sec for your empire strikes me as an amazing idea, it would be so much better and way worse if they took the conconsentual PVP idea to that too and made the system sov changes affect everyone not just FW people. Imagine logging as a fight brews up ten logging on in enemy territory (as it can happen in 0.0).
Joran Dravius: titans
Me: explain?
Joran Dravius: Warp to 0
Me: I think that was brilliant idea. I remember well the mind numbing trips 20-40 jumps. I dont miss that. I can see where gatecampers would have an issue but anywhere that would be an issue cant you install bubbles and interdictors? And in you cant make it so.
Joran Dravius wrote: I can go on like this for about 3 days, assuming I don't sleep the whole time.
Please do.
Unless this was just a throwaway troll and you werent planning on following it up/educating a highsec pubbie what the problems ARE in this game that I dont see/dont know about
Brooks Puuntai wrote:Do you have to actively do missions for every datacore? Do you have to go kill a rat for every data core? Do you even need to log in for each data core?.
Make it like that then dont break the system for anyone in highsec that wants to look into it. Its already annoying enough that Industry has a hard ceiling of T2 stuff for the average player. Youre not gonna get a useful T2 BPO by yourself, and thats fairly annoying for someone that loves crafting systems in MMOs
Hence being Malkavian http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.2317/JKES0811.17.1 Bees That Drink Human Tears -- ITS SCIENCE!!! |
Antisocial Malkavian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
75
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 19:35:00 -
[99] - Quote
awww no?
just a drive by post?
no fun http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.2317/JKES0811.17.1 Bees That Drink Human Tears -- ITS SCIENCE!!! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6512
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 19:59:00 -
[100] - Quote
Joran Dravius wrote:Tippia wrote:Quote:CCP has in the past made a lot of fail changes to this game and this is just another example of them doing it again. How so? Incarna, warp to 0, jumpdrives, jump bridges, titans, faction warefare, bounty system, learning skills, nex store, prenerf nano ships *takes a deep breath* Incursions, mittens's ban, lv5 missions, all the useless modules, ship tiers, using dev powers to break up m0o camps, wardec shedding, making said shedding not an exploit anymore, neutral logi *another deep breath* local, permacloakers, prenerf insurance for suicide gankers, torp kestrels, hiring t20, not firing t20, sov mechanics, t3 boosting better than command ships, malediction having a longer tackle range than its targeting range, micro shield extenders, aoe missiles from beta, neut not having tracking, etc. I can go on like this for about 3 days, assuming I don't sleep the whole time. Yeah, that didn't actually answer the question, thoughGǪ
How is this another example of them doing it again? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
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Testerxnot Sheepherder
Treasures Collectors
230
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 21:08:00 -
[101] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Joran Dravius wrote:[quote=Tippia] Yeah, that didn't actually answer the question, thoughGǪ How is this another example of them doing it again?
that bitter vet attitude, how is it working out for you? |
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
37
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 21:22:00 -
[102] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:So how long until the bounty NERF CCP Soundwave? Is there a magic number with Inflation that when it gets hit there'll be a 10% cut on ALL bounties? Inquiring minds want to know.
Yes many of us wanna know when it will hit. it seems you doing a good job multilating the Incursions and drone bounties already when you were not prepared for the Drone loot tables to be implemented. get your head out of your ass and plan it accordingly and not "We will get the rest of it done next part of the expansion"
And here i thought the early days were bad |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6518
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 21:24:00 -
[103] - Quote
Testerxnot Sheepherder wrote:that bitter vet attitude, how is it working out for you? Don't know. You'll have to ask Joran Dravius about that, not me.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Alpheias
Euphoria Released Verge of Collapse
632
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 22:27:00 -
[104] - Quote
Do what must be done, CCP. Do not hesitate. Show no mercy. I'd kill kittens and puppies and bunnies I'd maim toddlers and teens and then more |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
652
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 22:50:00 -
[105] - Quote
Joran Dravius wrote:Yeah cause it's really unusual for devs to look happy about fixing broken game systems like faction warfare. You carebears are so obsessed with goons you're probably going to blame them for global warming next. ...
We cause global warming? Heh~
Oh right carbon dioxide. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Antisocial Malkavian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
76
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 23:21:00 -
[106] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Joran Dravius wrote:Tippia wrote:Quote:CCP has in the past made a lot of fail changes to this game and this is just another example of them doing it again. How so? Incarna, warp to 0, jumpdrives, jump bridges, titans, faction warefare, bounty system, learning skills, nex store, prenerf nano ships *takes a deep breath* Incursions, mittens's ban, lv5 missions, all the useless modules, ship tiers, using dev powers to break up m0o camps, wardec shedding, making said shedding not an exploit anymore, neutral logi *another deep breath* local, permacloakers, prenerf insurance for suicide gankers, torp kestrels, hiring t20, not firing t20, sov mechanics, t3 boosting better than command ships, malediction having a longer tackle range than its targeting range, micro shield extenders, aoe missiles from beta, neut not having tracking, etc. I can go on like this for about 3 days, assuming I don't sleep the whole time. Yeah, that didn't actually answer the question, thoughGǪ How is this another example of them doing it again?
I dont really expect an answer. I asked for more info an never even got that
http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.2317/JKES0811.17.1 Bees That Drink Human Tears -- ITS SCIENCE!!! |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
1286
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 22:08:00 -
[107] - Quote
Off topic posts removed. Please stay on topic and polite, thank you. CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
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Desert Ice78
Cobra Kai Dojo WHY so Seri0Us
108
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 01:21:00 -
[108] - Quote
Arkon Olacar wrote:So we have rampant inflation, and what does he decide to do? Remove one of the major sources of minerals from the game, and replace it with another isk faucet. CCP logic derp.
And the rampant hulk ganking that is in full swing has nothing to do with it? Herp derp. I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
86
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 07:06:00 -
[109] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:Off topic posts removed. Please stay on topic and polite, thank you.
better idea http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.2317/JKES0811.17.1 Bees That Drink Human Tears -- ITS SCIENCE!!! |
Styx Cyc
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 07:13:00 -
[110] - Quote
Philboyd Benoit wrote:I am seriously concerned about this. It's one thing to have market instability due to player actions but to have the Devs create instability by creating or changing a game mechanic? Thats unwarranted and unneeded and sets a downright dangerous precedence. The devs do NOT need to break the sandbox by creating instability. Thats the reponsibility of the players.. CCP, PLEASE don't let Soundwave break the sandbox. It's breaking the game code of non dev interference in how the game is played imho.
Do you really expect a former guy from btardFleet to not break the game?.
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Sigurd Sig Hansen
Hedion University Amarr Empire
149
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 07:37:00 -
[111] - Quote
Styx Cyc wrote:Philboyd Benoit wrote:I am seriously concerned about this. It's one thing to have market instability due to player actions but to have the Devs create instability by creating or changing a game mechanic? Thats unwarranted and unneeded and sets a downright dangerous precedence. The devs do NOT need to break the sandbox by creating instability. Thats the reponsibility of the players.. CCP, PLEASE don't let Soundwave break the sandbox. It's breaking the game code of non dev interference in how the game is played imho. Do you really expect a former guy from btardFleet to not break the game?.
Careful, this thread used to be like 12 pages.
guess that insinuation is a no-no now
Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game |
Pok Nibin
Viziam Amarr Empire
129
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 17:39:00 -
[112] - Quote
Careful commenting on SW. Serene already got a ban. I guess Iceland's idea of "Freedom of Speech" doesn't jive with the rest of the world's....unless you count Mugabi. Don't fight it.-á Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs.-á You know you want to. |
Whitehound
276
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 17:49:00 -
[113] - Quote
I do not like all of it, but it is not much to worry about either. There have been worse changes and there will come worse changes again. Until then stays the Fury Pony in its shed.
I do not quite see the OCD with datacore farming CCP is having. There is nothing wrong with having one controlled and lazy way of ISK farming in a game. It is just diversity. It is one of the many things a regular EVE players looks after and adds to the game play. It is not destroying anything. That it will be used to give more rewards to Militia is also uncreative. It reminds me of having to wear the old clothes of a bigger brother and is only a cheap change.
No more crappy expansions!-á-á Raise A Little Hell"20 percent of CCP staff fired." - CEO Hilmar-á-á No more crappy layoffs! |
Torneach
Emrys Enterprises
82
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 17:59:00 -
[114] - Quote
Knug LiDi wrote:Removal (or reduction) of the automatic accumulation of datacores is a good thing.
While having a form of passive income is good individually, it sucks from the game's perspective. We'd all love to see our wallets ping daily with millions of ISK, just for logging on. Just because we'd like that, doesn't mean it should be that way.
You do know that one needs to actually transport the datacores in order to make any money, right?
RP accumulation is passive, yes. But the ISK received from the datacores gained through RPs is not. The wallets of datacore sellers do not "ping daily with millions of ISK just for logging on".
That is the 'false premise' the OP was referring to. Datacores are neither a truly passive source of income, nor are they an isk fountain.
In order to make money from RPs, they need to be converted into datacores and then transported to market. There is action involved, and thus, not passive, in the same way PI and moon mining are not truly passive sources of income.
Also, datacores are not an ISK fountain. They do not inject more ISK into the economy, merely move it from one entity to another. Bounties and missions are ISK fountains, since they create ISK. |
Kietay Ayari
Caldari State
436
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 03:45:00 -
[115] - Quote
The datacore thing is making me o_O. The ISK you get from it passively is so insanely small. I know its passive but its barely even worth the time to set it up! Ferox #1 |
clixor
Celluloid Gurus
19
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Posted - 2012.05.13 11:09:00 -
[116] - Quote
Kietay Ayari wrote:The datacore thing is making me o_O. The ISK you get from it passively is so insanely small. I know its passive but its barely even worth the time to set it up!
Not worth setting up anymore that is. Before the agant quality changes with 3 chars on an account you could fund that account with a PLEX p/m with cores. It also took way longer to setup though, no dedicated security agents in R&D corps so you were stuck with courier missions with the occasional pewpew mission.
I fail to see the reason to get so worked up about the DC changes though, if in the process FW is getting some love than overall the game is moving forward and that's way more important than a few 100m a month.
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Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.05.13 11:29:00 -
[117] - Quote
Kietay Ayari wrote:The datacore thing is making me o_O. The ISK you get from it passively is so insanely small. I know its passive but its barely even worth the time to set it up!
It doesn't.
DL isk/h and take a look at what your revenue is with this, it's really ridiculous as revenue and before you can pay yourself a decent fitted ship it's a very long road.
Rp is not worthy for the money you get with when you can simply win same/double rating a few rats in null for the same time spent hauling your rp's and selling them.
PI profits with regular taxes, 10 to 17%, is worthless of the time spent doing it for the same reason.
Cool stuff, let's see the impact one year from now
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
574
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Posted - 2012.05.13 11:45:00 -
[118] - Quote
You need to dig through his post history. Look at the alliance tournament when he had a rage and flat out insulted players (in the alliance tournament section, last year or two back, can't recall). Then take a look at how he mocked players during the famous Door event where we were (rightfully) pissed at him last summer.
You could also bring up his poor attitude, always trying to joke away serious discussions and constructive argument, or discuss if he really understand basic game concept/mechanic, but that is a bit harder to measure.
To his credit; he react fairly fast and is somewhat witty, so he works excellent as AT-host on EVE TV. But apart from that he shows a disturbing lack of people-quality, in fact what I posted above is just simple examples of how he directly insult and discredit the playerbase. The sad part is, the only reason someone like that can keep his job is because of a) incompetence of his bosses, and/or b) poor/buddy company culture.
There's absolutely nothing about CCP Soundwave that gives any kind of confidence about CCP, whatsoever, unfortunately. I wish him the best with his life and hobbies, but he should leave this game asap before he ruins it even more. And he should take his bosses with him. shiptoastin' liek a baws |
Lexmana
Imperial Stout
442
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 11:57:00 -
[119] - Quote
AFK Hauler wrote:RPing id not an ATM for printing ISK - period! I wonder why people are so butt-hurt over removing an income source. Just spend the time you save on another activity and you have your income back. It happens every day in EVE. This would only be a problem for you if the old income was passive ... but that would almost be like cheating. |
Pok Nibin
Viziam Amarr Empire
131
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 15:39:00 -
[120] - Quote
Would that it were a CCP employee had the insight to know what to shake up and where - why. I find it difficult to believe with all the blatant inconsistencies with which EVE is rife, that crew has a clue. Why else would they resort to hiring an economist to tweak the market...with no significant result. In fact, the more they tinker with their toy, the more unstable it becomes.
Be honest. If Alex Trabek suddenly started choosing topics, would you believe he didn't know the question beforehand? A bunch of boys in a garage invent a game, then put it online to increase the population so they can play with a whole bunch of other people...it's not a business...with them writing the code there's no hope it can be fair.
Do mafiosos gamble in their own casinos? Don't fight it.-á Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs.-á You know you want to. |
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