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zariae
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
7
 |
Posted - 2012.05.05 07:53:00 -
[421] - Quote
Tiger's Spirit wrote:zariae wrote:Tippia wrote:
.....The new system tries to be a single-pane system, much like the Windows ExplorerGG* but the problem is that single panes are pretty useless, which is why tools like NC/TC were invented. It doesn't have everything in one place GGv it has one thing at a time in one place, and the main advantage is that you can quickly select which GG#one thingGG% out of everything you want to see. There's a subtle but very important different in how those two solutions give you access to GG#everything at onceGG%. Yes, just like Explorer, the new inventory lets you open multiple windows and thus emulate the old system (with a nice set of new features for each window), but in terms of having everything at your immediate disposal, it's no different from the old one because you still have to open all those windows. Only now, you have to shift-click a whole lot rather than have the different views you want open in new windows by default.
Please listen to him. He did. But you didn't. Please dont post anymore if you can't realize the problems. This new inventory system worsen than old. Remove dockingbay and transfer ships to a merged inventory is a horrible idea.
Ah, i think you misunderstood, i meant CCP listen to tippia. i've edited my post for clarity
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Real Poison
Aura of Darkness Nulli Secunda
101
 |
Posted - 2012.05.05 08:33:00 -
[422] - Quote
Tiger's Spirit wrote:Old Inventory system = Swiss Knife = Total Commander New Inventory system = bags of crap = Windows Explorer
Who want to using W. Explorer if had Total Commander ?
Submenus under submenus lol and hangar have another submenus lol
Ack. I said it earlier too. You NEED a dual pane window for managing stuff. For items in hangars even more than on a filesystem. |

Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1121
 |
Posted - 2012.05.05 09:44:00 -
[423] - Quote
Tippia wrote: The old system was inherently a multi-pane system because that was the only way it could be done. The new system tries to be a single-pane system, much like the Windows ExplorerGG* but the problem is that single panes are pretty useless, which is why tools like NC/TC were invented. It doesn't have everything in one place GGv it has one thing at a time in one place, and the main advantage is that you can quickly select which GG#one thingGG% out of everything you want to see. There's a subtle but very important different in how those two solutions give you access to GG#everything at onceGG%. Yes, just like Explorer, the new inventory lets you open multiple windows and thus emulate the old system (with a nice set of new features for each window), but in terms of having everything at your immediate disposal, it's no different from the old one because you still have to open all those windows. Only now, you have to shift-click a whole lot rather than have the different views you want open in new windows by default.
Now, in truth, neither system is even remotely like TC and the old one is unarguably lacking features, but at least it assumed that there would be multiple windows and you could arrange those windows in any setup you liked GGv the new ones wants to assume that there will only be one window, but the simple fact is that there won't be because that would be horribly inefficient (and it's exactly that inefficiency that the entire line of [whatever] Commanders throughout history has solved). Unfortunately, asking them to implement n-pane split views and quick tabs for different locations to begin to approach what TC lets you do might be a bit much at this pointGG*
Yea... I still think that this new inventory system is something I could live with as long they start to think it more like an access point or starting point to item management. In space it can be as basic as the cargo hold without side panel and with some basic functionality (ie ability to move item from loot container to parent cargo hold window*) and in station it can be something much bigger. The very basic idea behind this system however has to be that user wants to open new windows, opening them should be easy and their positions should be saved.
*) can be made possible for example by adding back button to top bar and having it behaving as hotspot for item drag and drop transfer at same time
In fact I would think outside the box and actually give users the possibility to permanently "separate" the active ships cargo hold from the unified inventory to external window. This is mainly because it is most used window, contents of it are relevant in space and in station (ammo, courier items, free space) and it even indicates in which ship you are in unless other ways visible. Double clicking hangar background should open this window just like it does now. It shouldn't mess with main unified inventory's current target (like it does in test server atm).
If you start thinking cargo hold and main unified inventory window as 2 different "entities", everything becomes much cleared and easier when separating station and space behaviour. In fact it would be really easy. Both windows have their positions and state saved. Most people will probably keep both open in station and main unified inventory window closed in space. To make things even more convenient, the cargo hold window, even when used in smallest possible size with all the extra junk hidden, could have button to open then main unified inventory window.
This together with change in think process towards the goals of having unified inventory window as starting point for more windows and you got at least my approval.
...but then again this will never happen or even be considered so why even bother writing.
Get |

Rammix
FreeWorkers
4
 |
Posted - 2012.05.05 10:02:00 -
[424] - Quote
What are you talking about? You need 2 windows - just open the second, reach the container or whatever you wish to see and .. profit.
Plus, you've totally forgotten about Ctrl+x, Ctrl+v functionality. If you want to move something from container A to container C that is inside ship B without drug&dropping via the tree view - just use Ctrl+x on the stuff you need to move, reach the destination and press Ctrl+v, that's all.
Imagine Neocom panel as something like TC's links panel and just like I said above open inventory 2 times, and you'll have kind of TC-like interface. Yes, it's not such customizeable, but it's totally new so give it a chance and some time. I'm sure devs will improve the new inventory. OpenSUSE 12.1, wine 1.5 |

Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1121
 |
Posted - 2012.05.05 10:20:00 -
[425] - Quote
Rammix wrote:I understand that there are always people who don't like something, especially when that something is new. There is this and then there is the version of using this as excuse.
Get |

zariae
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
7
 |
Posted - 2012.05.05 11:26:00 -
[426] - Quote
This is about usability. Compare this scenario on Sisi and Traq:
You want to move some items with your iteron mark II. There are 3 locations that have items you want to move. 1) your items hanger 2) iteron mark I 3) iteron mark II
You have a gsc in each iteron, and are active in your iteron mark II.
You need to keep track of what you are taking and already have loaded (is your memory good enough not to? if yours is, nice, not everyone will have though) so you need to have a window for each of the containers and the items hanger so you can compare instantly what you have where, in what amounts.
On Tranq
You have just docked, your items/ships inventory is already open; double-click on the station interior, up pops the cargo of iteron mark II, double-click container, there's the contents.
find your iteron mark I in the ships hanger, double-click it, up pops the cargo, double-click container in cargo, up pops the contents.
select your items tab.
You're now ready to go, swap and change to your hearts content.
On Sisi
You have just docked, you double click on the station interior, up pops the cargo of iteron mark II, you slide the index out, find the items label, shift-click, scroll to find the ships label shift-click, double-click on the container in your cargo, the contents opens.
Find your iteron mark I in the ships hanger, note it's name, slide the index out, find your ships name, click on the arrow, click on the container, there's the contents.
Select your items tab
You're now ready to go, swap and change to your hearts content.
So not only has it taken longer to get to the same point, you have to do it the exact way i said for Sisi or every window will change to show the contents of one cargohold or container, requiring you to open the windows again.
You end up using multiple windows anyway as it's easier and natural for managing assets from different sources. So not only is it more cumbersome this new way, it's irrelevant as you can already stack windows together on Tranq if you want more screen space.
It's the same for wrecks. On Tranq you kill someone, open wreck, open cargo, both are set where you want them at the size you want them, you can instantly see how much space you have and what's there. You leave the cap boosters behind.
On Sisi you open wreck, open cargo. The cargos contents have replaced the wreck contents, you open the index, shift-click your cargo, a window opens that's massive and obscures alot of screen estate, you resize if you have time or ignore what's going on behind it (lets hope there's no local spike) you can carry on looting as normal.
It's just worse functionality as it stands. I would like to see Devs taking on board real world uses of this system.
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Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
10
 |
Posted - 2012.05.05 12:02:00 -
[427] - Quote
CCP, please listen to the host of comments about this new system.
It is more cumbersome, takes longer to do what you want and does not really add anything. Please scrap it. Please. It is awful.
We hold out some hope that CCP listens to everyone this time. A faint hope, but a hope.
|

Darkcoro
Rock'N'Rollerz Dreadlock. Holiday.
0
 |
Posted - 2012.05.05 12:55:00 -
[428] - Quote
First off, I want to say that the new Unified Inventory is AMAZING! Thank you so much Team Game of Drones! GVQGVQGVQ
However, there are a few little tweaks I would like to suggest, and I know some of these have been addressed before in the thread, but features need love too! 
This is based on my opinions, having used it for a while, and suggestions from corp members, again having used it for a while, not just off the cuff observations.
- Inventory Button pinned to the bottom of the Neocom, as it is in Stations now, or at least an option to do so. That is the natural place everyone goes looking for their Items/Ships these days, and it makes sense to have the most accessed option seperate and easy to see.
- I would like to see the option to Merge the Unified Inventory in Station into the Station Services panel, similar to how we have Merge Ships and Items into Station Services now. (Note, this functionality still exists on SiSi in the old fashion, perhaps this is meant to be updated?)
I have included a Mockup to demonstrate what I mean for this one: Mockup
- For those who don't like the Merged setup, and I know this has been suggested before, but remembering the state of the Inventory UI dependent on whether you are docked or in space would be extremely useful.
- Drag and Drop a ship name from the list into hangar view to activate a ship, as we do now with the Icons (I know the functionality exists if you click on "Ships" but being able to drag straight from the list would be extremely intuitive.
- Some sort of display of the Ship Type in the list would also be handy, be it an Icon or a name in [brackets] before or after. Perhaps even an option to enable/disable this.
Those are the points I have so far, will keep testing it of course. 
I am also working on a more detailed mockup of a suggestion I have for the Unified Inventory UI, but I believe it is out of the scope of this Expansion, at least for the first round, so I will save it for when my mockup looks better, and I am not cluttering up the feedback with new Ideas.  |

betoli
Morior Invictus. Ethereal Dawn
22
 |
Posted - 2012.05.05 13:47:00 -
[429] - Quote
Can we reprocess/sell things directly out of a container? |

Tiger's Spirit
Troll Hunters INC.
67
 |
Posted - 2012.05.05 14:51:00 -
[430] - Quote
Rammix wrote:I understand that there are always people who don't like something, especially when that something is new.
I understand that there are always people who don't like something, especially when that something is crap and worsen than before and much complicated to use. |
|

Evenus Battuta
34
 |
Posted - 2012.05.05 16:02:00 -
[431] - Quote
Awsome,
Have you considered adding BPO/BPC and DamagedY/N in filter?
I also think that a overall INVERT checkbox will be a good plus to filter system. |

Amaldor Themodius
Rape of Virtue
6
 |
Posted - 2012.05.05 16:03:00 -
[432] - Quote
So not sure if the Devs are ducking the question but after reading first 7 pages of this thread i have seen the question asked regarding bpc / bpo on 3 occassions and not answered once.
So lets try again..
"How does the new inventory system address the clutter we currently experience with BPC / BPO and can the new inventory system include a ME, PE and runs remaining value on the icon for blueprints of all types."
For indy players this is probably one of the key elements we seek to have addressed at an inventory level. Although if you are feeling all loved up you could also revisit the POS manufacture / invent mechanics.. Way too much clicking and drop down selections with frequent delays of a few seconds between each click or menu selection making the process painfully painful. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6416
 |
Posted - 2012.05.05 16:15:00 -
[433] - Quote
Rammix wrote:What are you talking about? You need 2 windows - just open the second, reach the container or whatever you wish to see and .. profit. The problem is that the new inventory system isn't aware of the fact that it can have two windows open, so any time you open a new container of any kind, it appears in both windows GGv this renders the point of having both windows set up largely pointless because now they're showing the same thing. Opening a new container should either spawn a new window, or it should be turing complete and figure out which window it needs to open in (this won't happen). Opening two windows creates a whole bunch of new problems and inefficiencies because both windows assume that they are a single-window interface.
Quote:Plus, you've totally forgotten about Ctrl+x, Ctrl+v functionality. No. It's just that copy/paste is a idiotic hack of a solution to a problem that should never have existed, that came about back in the day because Microsoft thought they could do multi-location file management in a single window. Having two windows or a dual-pane window (that work properly) completely removes any need to have this functionality because you see both locations at once and don't need to flip-flop between them with a copy/paste-buffer to hold the information while you move from one location to the other. In fact, the mere fact that copy/paste is needed is a HUGE warning bell going off, telling us that something inefficient is going on that requires this kind of clumsy solutionGG* (not to mention that a good modern file manager will have replaced copy/paste with a drop stack, where you shovel in a bunch of files from multiple locations for later use at some other locations).
Quote:I understand that there are always people who don't like something, especially when that something is new. Then you don't understand the complaint. The new system is excellent in many ways GGv it's just not up to the task of handling many common use-cases because it tries to do something that is actually very inefficient purely because it seems like a good design choice to do so.
Again (and trying to be a bit clearer this time), I think the problem lies with what they've included in the term GG#inventoryGG%. Some things belong in a unified system like this, but there are also things that are better handled outside of it (at least primarily GGv if they also appear in the unified window for those who run at low resolutions or some such, then that's fine). For instance, when I think GG#inventoryGG%, I see things like the station hangar, the corp hangar, the asset list, the corp asset listGG* and maybe the corp delivery hangar. I do not see things like ship cargo holds, drone bays, jetcans, wrecks, etc.
This doesn't mean that those other item containers couldn't benefit greatly from this UI GGv it just means they perhaps shouldn't be part of the same tree structure. If I open my Nomad's cargo hold, it would be wonderful if it displayed a tree structure like the one the new UI offers, so I could browse through all the freight containers and the crap inside them as if they were subdirectories. However, it should be the Nomad itself that is the root of that tree structure, not [GenericRootInventoryObjectInstance]. Likewise, the list of inventories I mentioned earlier would all fit neatly under the root object GG#StationGG%, and then the various hangars are first-level branches on that tree structure.
In a way, this division is already apparent in the new inventory system, but the problem is that they all trace back to that Generic Root, rather than being roots themselves, and this is (I imagine, conceptually) why new inventories are unable to determine which window they belong in: because all windows are the same. Opening a new inventory makes it go GG#ok, so I will now show up in the inventory windowGG%, except that GG#the inventory windowGG% happens to be three different windows the way I've set it up, and it now opens in all of them because they're just linked instances of each other and there is no way to tell them apart.
Imagine instead that, if I could GG#detachGG% any of these root locations from the main inventory window GGv I could have a window that is the station inventory, and nothing else. If I open a wreck, it will not appear in that window because wrecks are not sub-branches of the station inventory root. Or I detach the GG#shipGG% root (which shows any and all ships I can interact with at this point), and then go off to fiddle with my POS GGv opening up the Advanced Lab module will now spawn a new window, because the only inventory window available at the time is the GG#ShipGG% tree, and POS modules are not a sub-category of that tree. Exactly how it would determine where to open if multiple windows were available is a tricky question, but personally, I would prefer if it figured out which one will make for the most GG#shallowGG% tree, because it's much kinder to the user if he doesn't have to dig though 18 layers to get to where he wants to beGG* So if both the all-encompassing inventory is available (of which Advanced Labs is a subsubsub[GG*]-category) and a GG#POS modulesGG%-root window is open, it will choose the latter because it's that much closer to the Advanced Lab branch.
All of this would mean that I can still have the totally unified inventory window in my NeoCom, but what I'll use for every-day tasks are these detached sub-inventories with a clearly defined root (and for added new-UI-awesomeness, I can assign these sub-root windows to the NeoCom to give me back an updated version of the current system, with separate station, ship, and remote asset buttons). GG#If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GkmvGkm you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GG%
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |

Evenus Battuta
34
 |
Posted - 2012.05.05 16:22:00 -
[434] - Quote
A Unified Inventory should also be able to deal with items in different places within single window----so how about a dropdown listbox of locations(where I have stuffs) on left corner? So we can also dump the asset window. And by merging this into single window, we can even filter items by their distances to my current location.
Another suggestion: I really believe that the location of that filter by name textbox should be together with other filter stuffs. Do not separate function in same group that far apart. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6416
 |
Posted - 2012.05.05 16:33:00 -
[435] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote:Yea... I still think that this new inventory system is something I could live with as long they start to think it more like an access point or starting point to item management. In space it can be as basic as the cargo hold without side panel and with some basic functionality (ie ability to move item from loot container to parent cargo hold window*) and in station it can be something much bigger. The very basic idea behind this system however has to be that user wants to open new windows, opening them should be easy and their positions should be saved. Yes, this is fundamentally the idea that's driving my vision of having a main window and GG#detachable rootGG% objects. I also think that a lot of the problems with the new system is that opening stuff from outside the inventory window changes the content of that window, when chances are that I set up that window to show me exactly what I wanted to see, and this new inventory is something I want to see in addition to what I already have on-screen.
Maybe a quick-fix would be to simply have GG#open in new windowGG% be the default action any time I accessGG* anything, really, without using the tree view to get to it, just like you say. But I suspect that it's exactly that behaviour (and the need to save the locations of all these additional windows) that they've wanted to move away fromGG* 
Yes, this is what I mean by the whole GG#detachable rootGG% idea, but more intelligibly written. I should probably read the entire thread and the responses before postingGG* ehrmGG* aaaanyway. 
Quote:Other thing worth mentioning is the neocom again. As minimizing the windows - chat, item management or browser window - has become real fun since the wonderful update - I would warmly recommend thinking about adding narrow 9-10 pixel task bar to bottom of the screen where you can minimize windows so that their labels remain visible. This would also host area for these additional inventory windows and you would get rid of the problem you are having with the inventory function's neocom button at the moment. Hell you could also have space to reinvent the date to the clock (!). Yup. I feel it's a bit of a missed opportunity not to integrate this new UI with the customisation features that the NeoCom offers GGv being able to assign quick buttons on the NeoCom to directly open specific inventories would mean using every new feature to their fullest, while still letting us customise our user experience to emulate the old system very closely. We get all the new goodness with all the old goodness (because there were actually a few things in the old system that were very nice and handy). GG#If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GkmvGkm you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GG%
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |

Shannae Darkehart
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
1
 |
Posted - 2012.05.05 16:53:00 -
[436] - Quote
I read "multi-sell" and swooned. 
Much love for CCP lately. <3 I'm sorry if you feel there's a legitimate reason for botting but there isn't and that's basically that. Not liking a game doesn't entitle you to cheat. Ever. At all. Enough with the moral equivalency please. ~CCP Sreegs |

Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1127
 |
Posted - 2012.05.05 17:44:00 -
[437] - Quote
Tippia wrote:For instance, when I think GG#inventoryGG%, I see things like the station hangar, the corp hangar, the asset list, the corp asset listGG* and maybe the corp delivery hangar. I do not see things like ship cargo holds, drone bays, jetcans, wrecks, etc.
Yes... I didn't quite get the part where they started to extend overview into inventory window. To be honest didn't even test this functionality much because won't never ever be using such thing.
Get |

Rammix
FreeWorkers
5
 |
Posted - 2012.05.05 17:57:00 -
[438] - Quote
Tiger's Spirit wrote:Rammix wrote:I understand that there are always people who don't like something, especially when that something is new. I understand that there are always people who don't like something, especially when that something is crap and worsen than before and much complicated to use. It's just your opinion. You don't like it, I do like it. And many others really do like it. I don't think that tastes of just a few people should be decisive. The new inventory will come to TQ because it's good and useful; maybe it needs some tweaks, but still it's good. OpenSUSE 12.1, wine 1.5 |

Tiger's Spirit
Troll Hunters INC.
69
 |
Posted - 2012.05.05 18:39:00 -
[439] - Quote
Rammix wrote:Tiger's Spirit wrote:Rammix wrote:I understand that there are always people who don't like something, especially when that something is new. I understand that there are always people who don't like something, especially when that something is crap and worsen than before and much complicated to use. It's just your opinion. You don't like it, I do like it. And many others really do like it. I don't think that tastes of just a few people should be decisive. The new inventory will come to TQ because it's good and useful; maybe it needs some tweaks, but still it's good.
And i playing almost 9 years ago and you playing 1.5. Smart peoples know when a new changes bring more positive things than bad, but this crap bring more negative things than old one.
I write again this changes same when user changing back his old Total Commander to Windows Explorer. This is a step back. I'm very happy if you want to click 100 times more than old item manager, but i'm not. Thi's new itempanel is horrible with 156789788 submenu and the inventory is jumbled, because all item merged to one place. Oh yes the panel have filter and searching bar,you want to tell us, but just the idiots want to use more mouse click or more typing.
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Jal Garai
Eye of God
1
 |
Posted - 2012.05.05 18:52:00 -
[440] - Quote
OK I haven't read through the thread so this may well have been covered before and if so my apologies.
Generally I do really like the new inventory however the tree and specifically non-highlighted items are woefully dim. The overall effect is too muted and needs a bit more 'pop'.
Otherwise...great work.
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Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
30
 |
Posted - 2012.05.05 19:13:00 -
[441] - Quote
Oh man........ allright.... here we go again. I don't know where to begin. DON'T PANIC! We can fix this.... uhm
Allright... New Invetory. Yes. Ok, here it goes!
The Good: As mentioned, one of the biggest and most needed overhauls to UI yet. Having lots of windows open and trying to manage is tedious sometimes. There are a lot of functionality and features you guys are adding to sweeten this up. Love many of the new functions of the Inventory window. The new views, looks, tree view can be useful.
The Bad: Waaaaayyyyyyy too little advanced warning. There are things that need to be in a separate window and not merged with the rest of the inventory. Not enough time to test or confirm that this will suit the majority of players for majority of the tasks/time. I think it's a good project and all but something as big as this needs a lot more foresight and testing and feedback. Sisi and forums alone is not good enough. This needs to be OPTIONAL!!!, on TQ, to ensure it's functionality, and you need to collect data on how many people actually prefer the new system to the old.
The Ugly: While this "overhaul" has the potential to be one of the greatest changes, it also has the POTENTIAL to be a complete DISASTER. There are many questions and concerns that have been raised by players on this thread that have not been addressed at all (no I'm not talking about people who don't know how to use the S&I panel). While the new UI may make some things easier, it can also make other things a lot more difficult to manage. Specifically for those of us who do have lots of items windows open could actually suffer from this change, and it would only benefit those who rarely have more than 2-3 windows open at a time. If the player base feels like you've limited the items UI to appeal to the those who have difficulty concentrating there could potentially be blood running on the streets. This great expansion can be the worst since... well.. Incarna.
Potential Problems: There are many potential problems that may arise from this and here's a few I can think of that haven't been mentioned yet. *Sometimes you just want to dock, look at the ships hangar (that's already open and merged with station UI) and drag a new ship to the hangar to quickly board and undock. *Sometimes you want to open a specific container or ships cargo quickly (in a small window) and drag contents it to your station hangar without having to open, resize, scroll, look for, do loops and hoops etc. etc. *Sometimes you want tiny 3x1 windows w/o all the additional information taking up space or time loading all the other useless information. *SOMETIMES... you want certain windows to be 3x1, others 10x10 and others 50x25. Without separate items hangars there is no way for the system to remember or know what you're trying to do and this leaves us with a lot of annoying resizing, pushing, pulling, shoving and will result in a lot of frustration!!! I don't want to have a huge window popping up everytime I open my ships cargo to monitor how much ammo I have left, or a tiny window open up when I am trying to quickly check how many minerals are left in the corp hangar.
The Solution: I'm no programmer, but you said you made "Inventory UI way more modular" and that sounds to me like you made things a lot more interchangeable. Maybe there are programming limitations I'm not aware of, but I don't see why this needs to replace the old inventory windows. Is it really that difficult to make this a new asset management window and still allow us to use the more conventional means if we choose so?
PLEASE.... please do not make the same mistakes as in Incarna. The biggest problem with that was not some stupid $80 monocles that nobody cares about but the fact that you replaced a lot of the useful features and functionality with useless pretty stuff and completely removed our ability to choose either even though you said you wouldn't do that for years. As a loyal and fervent supporter of CCP and EVE since 2004, I urge you to reflect on your past promises and re-examine your objectives. Anyone can make pretty new UIs and load it up with features. Not everyone (and I know you can if you try) can actually make it so useful and efficient that everyone loves it and wants to use it.
My final opinion on this matter... I'm still on the fence. If this optional then I praise it as one of the greatest tools and all the power to you guys. If this does go through in it's current form and replaces all our current asset/ship/item/corp hangars views, then I'm grinding my teeth and bracing for impact. It will potentially ruin the game for a lot of us! |

Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
30
 |
Posted - 2012.05.05 19:17:00 -
[442] - Quote
Amaldor Themodius wrote:So not sure if the Devs are ducking the question but after reading first 7 pages of this thread i have seen the question asked regarding bpc / bpo on 3 occassions and not answered once.
So lets try again..
"How does the new inventory system address the clutter we currently experience with BPC / BPO and can the new inventory system include a ME, PE and runs remaining value on the icon for blueprints of all types."
On this note... PLEASE DO NOT make any changes of this sort. The window with the blueprints loads slowly as it is, I don't want it cluttered with additional useless information when I'm simply trying to manage and move them around.
This is what SCIENCE & INDUSTRY panel is for, and it would be redundant and useless to display that information in the items hangar view. |

Eija-Riitta Veitonen
Unicorn Enterprise
0
 |
Posted - 2012.05.05 22:10:00 -
[443] - Quote
I was going to leave some constructive feedback, but i was advised to leave only this comment: "**** sucks donkey balls"
Now, on a more serious note.
The UI overhaul is a very good idea in general, as it badly needs one, however, i oppose such drastic changes to one, because most people are used to the current system, myself included. That also doesn't mean that current system is flawed - there are many MDI apps for a reason. The new window is all fine and dandy, but it looks like it would be a much better replacement for the ASSETS window, not the cargohold/maintbay/fuelbay/corphangar/stationhangar/cargoboxes windows. If the new system is so modular, why not leave the old way of doing stuffGds the way it is and just offer this new ability as a separate feature, or, at most replace the assets window, while leaving all the functionality of this new window intact. This way would leave people with ability to choose what to use - the old way of multiple windows, the new way of single smart window or just use both where appropriate. I, for example, like my ship cargo bay, maintbay and fuelbay as separate windows, station hangar and ships in station merged into the station panel and i prefer cargo boxes pop up as separate windows (although ability to see them and browse through as tree nodes in "assets" view would be great addition).
In short: make this the new assets window and leave the old windows as they are now, this would keep most people happy. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6422
 |
Posted - 2012.05.05 22:30:00 -
[444] - Quote
Eija-Riitta Veitonen wrote:In short: make this the new assets window and leave the old windows as they are now, this would keep most people happy. I'd probably go so far as to say make this the interface for anything likely to involve large amounts of items, which includes stuff like the asset window (including corp assets) and the (corp and personal) hangar.
The main problem this new UI solves is one of organisation of large amounts of stuff in nested containers, and I'd say that it does it admirably. It's not very well suited for small, single-layer containers with few items inside them, though, because those containers do not suffer from the issues the UI is suited to handle. GG#If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GkmvGkm you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GG%
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |

DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
8
 |
Posted - 2012.05.05 22:48:00 -
[445] - Quote
Finally got around to further testing!
The good: Windows shrink down to a respectable size. If I separate out the cargo hold of a ship and set it to a particular size, the next time I separate out the cargo hold of a ship, it will open as that size.
The bad: The inventory will not remember that I separated out a ship's cargo hold. If I switch ships, I have to open the cargo hold in a separate window all over again.
I would really like it if the inventory remembered what windows I want separate from the main inventory window. Here's the functionality that I'd like to see (using the example of a separated cargo hold window):
If I have the inventory open already and I double-click on my ship or otherwise open its cargo, I want the inventory to open my cargo hold in a separate window, assuming that the last time I opened it I made it a separate window.
If I don't have the inventory open already and I open my cargo hold, I want it to open in the same size as it was. I want to be able to open my overall inventory or otherwise access it without having to go into the tree of the cargo hold and re-separate out my cargo hold.
Basically, I want windows that I have separated from the main inventory to stay separated and not be forced to behave as the parent inventory window. In my eyes, there's little point in being able to open separate windows if I have to open the same windows separately every single time that I want them. |

Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1129
 |
Posted - 2012.05.06 01:46:00 -
[446] - Quote
Here is simplified description about the project:
http://i48.tinypic.com/2vwwvva.jpg
Get |

Bless's Minion
DuckPus Fightclub
15
 |
Posted - 2012.05.06 02:01:00 -
[447] - Quote
Tunde Harkanis wrote:Inventory overhaul and no remote stacking? 
I would like to second this motion.
Don't get me wrong, these changes are great and much needed. But, it is still absolutely ridiculous that you have not added a remote-stack option in this UI iteration, or in all 9 years of EVE. Why do I need to waste 35 orders on 1 hobgoblin II each because I can't stack them? You can't even put bulk orders up so you have to do it 1 at a time. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think this was intended game-play...
Please recognize that this is a problem! |

Irisandra T'Lavel
9
 |
Posted - 2012.05.06 03:29:00 -
[448] - Quote
I posted this is a UI thread that has no dev interaction, so cross posting here as well. It may have been brought up, I am not reading 23 pages of UI stuff after skimming 20 pages of the "Inferno Features" to get linked away from the test server section of the forum to here...
Irisandra T'Lavel wrote:The worst thing I have seen so far:
My ship has a max capacity of 77,879.7 m3, but the dynamic bar at the top is rounded up to 77,880. Trying to drag a 25 m3 mod when it shows 25 m3 free will give an error for not enough room. I had to go to the fitting window to find the exact capacity.
Please at least give an option to not round the capacity
|

Rammix
FreeWorkers
5
 |
Posted - 2012.05.06 04:43:00 -
[449] - Quote
Tiger's Spirit wrote: And i playing almost 9 years ago and you playing 1.5.
Very weak argument. For playing '1.5 years' I've met plenty of total noobs who played 2-3 years and more and knew about the game MUCH less than I did at that moment. If you're not a 'munch-keen' it may take you 20 years to get to knowing something that some other people may already know after playing several months. IRL there are also people who don't learn almost anything even to their 60 years of life. So don't tell me about your char's age, it means nothing to me. 
Tiger's Spirit wrote: Smart peoples know when a new changes bring more positive things than bad, but this crap bring more negative things than old one.
I write again this changes same when user changing back his old Total Commander to Windows Explorer. This is a step back. I'm very happy if you want to click 100 times more than old item manager, but i do not want to receive tenosynovitis. This new itempanel is horrible with 156789788 submenu and the inventory is jumbled, because all item merged to one place. Oh yes the panel have filter and searching bar,you want to tell us, but just the idiots want to use more mouse clicks or more typing.
You don't need 'more typing', create and arrange your filters just once, like overview profiles. Seems you like to cover all your screen with inventories and because of them being unable even to double-click at space. I hate it. I don't spend most of my time in-game moving stuff around, and most people also don't. And I like to save screen space for something other than just my inventory. Also, the new window remembers your last choises pretty well: for example, if you are salvaging and looting cont-s in space, open one container, resize it as you wish, hide tree view and loot; when you open next similar container it will look like previous atm you closed it. Though, I would love to be able to bookmark some types of containers on the Neocom - having container profiles along with already made savable filters would be even better; hope they'll make it possible in future updates. (ah, yes, one more thing, don't think of any new feature as smth. final, because they sure will improve it). As I've said before, you can create separate windows by shift-clicking, you can hide tree view, etc. New filtering system also helps a lot, especially for repeated usage of something like POS hangar, with tons of its unpackaged stuff. OpenSUSE 12.1, wine 1.5 |

DeBingJos
Avalon Project Shadow Rock Alliance
235
 |
Posted - 2012.05.06 06:13:00 -
[450] - Quote
I like the changes! some people complain, but I suspect that it will be a huge improvement for 80% of the players. Fix FW ! |
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