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Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.04.08 01:06:00 -
[1]
This was a topic that generated considerable support, especially in the RP community. It was discussed with CCP on several occasions, and CCP's response was that alliances would be allowed into FW in some form (probably by allowing individual corps to join FW without leaving their alliance) and that this issue would be addressed in the first quarter of 2009.
It's now April ... and assuming I've not missed an anouncement somewhere, CCP seems to have entirely forgotten this issue. And as near as I can tell, so has the CSM. This is incredibly disappointing to those of us who actually care about the backstory of EVE and are interested in the RP potential of the MMORPG.
Don't let this issue die.
-- Becq Starforged
The Flame of Freedom Burns On! |
Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.04.08 07:06:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Ankhesentapemkah on 08/04/2009 07:07:23 I haven't forgotten.
But it's CCP that said: "It's the first thing we put in Empyrean Age 1.1!" "Err sorry not 1.1, well later this year okay!" "Yes we'll patch it into Quantum Rise" "We got the game mechanics sorted, won't be long, January 2009 it'll be in!" "Right we're busy with Apocrypha, but please wait a little longer, Q1 2009, promise!" I personally asked them about this in Iceland, and they were like "Uhhh **** yes we still have to do that too, but we really have more important things to do and don't care about it."
Then again I don't see why you guys want to join FW in the deplorable state it is in, but meh. ---
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CCP Applebabe
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Posted - 2009.04.08 07:46:00 -
[3]
Moved to " Assembly Hall ".
Applebabe Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us |
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Another Forum'Alt
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.04.08 13:39:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
Then again I don't see why you guys want to join FW in the deplorable state it is in, but meh.
Because they're RPers.
Meh, supporting just because CCP said they would and it doesn't matter to me. Guide to forum posting |
Vincent Gaines
Tau Online Explorator Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.08 15:22:00 -
[5]
yes yes yes yes yes yes yes
yes.
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iudex
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.04.08 15:24:00 -
[6]
I agree here. Maybe it wouldn't have been a good idea to let alliances in at the beginning, when we had like double the numbers in militias compared to today (8k in the Caldari militia at one point for example). In a time where our militia was having 150 man fleets on a daily basis the whole region was sufficiently populated, there were enough targets and fights at any given time during the day.
Today the activity is only a fraction of that, an increase in participants would benefit everyone. I don't see a reason anymore to deny alliances entering this role-playing aspect of Eve. They can't use their titans doomsdays to erase militia fleets, nor are capital fleets particularly suitable for plexing or dynamic low-sec fights. As they are role-players, this could have a positive effect on the plexing instead, since capturing systems determines who wins the war in the region, we'd have some more legitimate plexing wars going on (compared to only pvp and the attitude that plexing doesn't mean anything when non-role-players dominate the scene).
Faction Standings: Serpentis +7.81 // Angel Cartel +7.60 // Minmatar Republic -8.68 // Gallente Federation -9.88 |
Isaac Starstriker
Amarr Solaris Operations
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Posted - 2009.04.08 16:34:00 -
[7]
I disagree with the adding alliances to FW idea. All I can ever see is Super Alliances just coming in and steamrolling everyone for lols. Also, we don't need another place for these alliances to have their warzones. The lag is bad enough... Lets face it, FW is supposed to be the stepping stone before going into 0.0. It shouldn't be the other way.
No Support.
--Isaac Isaac's Haul*Mart - Open
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Ankhesentapemkah
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.04.08 17:06:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Isaac Starstriker I disagree with the adding alliances to FW idea. All I can ever see is Super Alliances just coming in and steamrolling everyone for lols. Also, we don't need another place for these alliances to have their warzones. The lag is bad enough... Lets face it, FW is supposed to be the stepping stone before going into 0.0. It shouldn't be the other way.
No Support.
--Isaac
CCP plans to add a pretty hefty standing requirement to entry, thus just steamrolling over things for lolz wouldn't be easy. This feature would be mostly intended for roleplaying alliances (CVA, Ushra'khan, etc). ---
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Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
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Posted - 2009.04.08 17:15:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah CCP plans to add a pretty hefty standing requirement to entry, thus just steamrolling over things for lolz wouldn't be easy. This feature would be mostly intended for roleplaying alliances (CVA, Ushra'khan, etc).
If this is the case then thumbs up.
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Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.04.08 22:04:00 -
[10]
Well, as long as CCP wants this to be a vote, then I'll add my vote in favor.
As to the questions raised above, if the Goons wanted to mess with FW, they could do so at any time, with or without this change. And while I can't think of any other "mega-alliances" that would care, this goes for them, too.
The alliances that might care include, for example, Ushra'Khan, EM, VV, CVA and other like us. We want to participate in FW not because the mechanics are great (they aren't, and dramatically so) but because we enjoy the RP of EVE, and have involved ourselves in the faction war (lower-cased) since before Faction War was even thought of by the devs. And despite the fact that the largest proponents of the Faction War concept were these same RP alliances, CCP in their wisdom locked us out of FW, thus making a mechanic that had a great deal of potential into little more than a means for legitimizing piracy. Oh, and a new sort of complex that nobody cares about except for the handful of diehard RPers who left alliances to pursue our RP war.
I realize that FW has a great many weaknesses, and I wish I believed that CCP was motivated to work on improving it. Even so, it's unreasonable to lock RPers out of the mechanics designed to reflect the RP war.
-- Becq Starforged
The Flame of Freedom Burns On! |
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Heartstone
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.04.08 22:10:00 -
[11]
I would love to see this being possible for those Alliances who have a long history of supporting one Empire or the other to be able to show their support in this way.
---
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Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.04.08 22:13:00 -
[12]
Continuing to support this very important topic. The arguments have been made, the suggestions have been raised to CCP in CSM 1 - CCP have accepted the principle and promised to implement this for faction warfare. It was also highlighted as something that is vital for the continued health and growth of the faction warfare concept at Fanfest round tables last November.
This is no longer a question of debating the principle - its about asking CCP to do what they have the technical capability of implementing right now.
We were told at Fanfest that the technical fix is ready to go and just requires a simple implementation to rollout.
Lets make it so.
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Dex Nederland
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2009.04.08 23:43:00 -
[13]
Sure, while I think the organizational options (character, corp, alliance) should be looked at and depth added (fx character, corp, megacorp, alliance/faction, coalition), allowing the player alliances that have been fighting faction based wars since their forming to take part in the part of the game designed for it just makes sense.
In-Game Browser : http://ldis.caldari-made.net |
Omber Zombie
Gallente Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2009.04.09 02:01:00 -
[14]
Ankhe, while the minutes still haven't been released (where the f**k are they Xhagen), you brought this issue up with CCP in the last meting and they told you it was still in the list of things to do. What part of raising this issue again (for the 3rd time) do you think you are going to accomplish? CCP know about this, it's on their list, and you are wasting both their time and ours bringing this issue up again.
Sorry if that sounds a little harsh, but as we have a limited amount of time in the next meeting, I'd rather spend it on issues that they don't already know about. ----------------------
My Blog |
Khyle
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.04.09 07:33:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Khyle on 09/04/2009 07:33:52 Could make FW more lively, lets see.
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Tareen Kashaar
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.04.09 14:43:00 -
[16]
This topic has my support. ____________
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LaFond
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.04.09 14:54:00 -
[17]
Supporting this once more. |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.04.09 16:01:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Omber Zombie Ankhe, while the minutes still haven't been released (where the f**k are they Xhagen), you brought this issue up with CCP in the last meting and they told you it was still in the list of things to do. What part of raising this issue again (for the 3rd time) do you think you are going to accomplish? CCP know about this, it's on their list, and you are wasting both their time and ours bringing this issue up again.
If its as simple as "hey guys you promised to do this last time and we were told the technical fix was already designed and just needed to be implemented - well how about implementing it already." then its not going to "waste" much of anyone's time.
How about you schedule this issue on the agenda as a request for a status update and timescale commitment. Now apocrypha is out of the way and released it must be time for this essential change to make it into coming soon patch.
Quote: Sorry if that sounds a little harsh, but as we have a limited amount of time in the next meeting, I'd rather spend it on issues that they don't already know about.
Well delivery of promises is important too you know. I'd count it a personal favour from you Omber if you can make sure this issue doesn't get forgotten about and CCP KEEP getting reminded to implement this every meeting up to the point it gets done.
Sometimes you have to push
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.04.09 16:19:00 -
[19]
Exactly what Jade said.
It wouldn't take more than a minute of CCPs precious time if they just gave us a status update. The last one we got was in Januari, and the new meeting is scheduled for May - that's four months later. If we're lucky it will already have been implemented before the meeting, if not, well, then we'd better remind them. ---
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T Dave
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.04.09 16:48:00 -
[20]
Supporting an important topic.
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Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.04.09 19:02:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Omber Zombie Ankhe, while the minutes still haven't been released (where the f**k are they Xhagen), you brought this issue up with CCP in the last meting and they told you it was still in the list of things to do. What part of raising this issue again (for the 3rd time) do you think you are going to accomplish? CCP know about this, it's on their list, and you are wasting both their time and ours bringing this issue up again.
Sorry if that sounds a little harsh, but as we have a limited amount of time in the next meeting, I'd rather spend it on issues that they don't already know about.
I'm not on the CSM, and have no great insight into it's inner workings. However it's nearing a year since FW was implemented, and I think about a half year since CCP said that they would address it early 2009. The RP community has been actively agitating for this for closer to a year and a half, ever since we were asked to playtest the early prototype ... before we were told we'd be locked out of the final version, of course. And really, even longer than that, since FW as a high-level concept has been floated for a number of years, and the RP community has been pushing the concept since before CCP began laying plans.
So at the risk of sounding harsh, I think we have a right to be just a bit impatient -- and given that CCP has given every sign that they are trying very hard to forget about this issue, I don't see why the minute spent asking for an updated ETA would be a 'waste of time'.
-- Becq Starforged
The Flame of Freedom Burns On! |
Marlona Sky
Astroglide X The Foray Project
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Posted - 2009.04.09 21:37:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Marlona Sky on 09/04/2009 21:39:27 You say issue like its a problem. There is a very specific reason why alliance are not allowed to join faction warfare. That would be like an alliance within an alliance. All it would take is one 0.0 power block to join and the opposite faction has no hope of ever winning anymore. The whole idea of faction warfare was to bring pvp to the empire based players who want to ease into pvp. Allowing alliance to join faction warfare would break that aspect of the game completely.
One of the worst suggestions ever brought forward.
Voting a giant hell no!!!
If you really wanted to get involved then join one giant corp, I believe they can hold over two thousand members, so stop being lazy if its something you really want to do.
Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator |
Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.04.09 23:58:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Marlona Sky Edited by: Marlona Sky on 09/04/2009 21:39:27 You say issue like its a problem. There is a very specific reason why alliance are not allowed to join faction warfare. That would be like an alliance within an alliance. All it would take is one 0.0 power block to join and the opposite faction has no hope of ever winning anymore. The whole idea of faction warfare was to bring pvp to the empire based players who want to ease into pvp. Allowing alliance to join faction warfare would break that aspect of the game completely.
One of the worst suggestions ever brought forward.
Voting a giant hell no!!!
If you really wanted to get involved then join one giant corp, I believe they can hold over two thousand members, so stop being lazy if its something you really want to do.
Spoken as someone who's thought very little on the subject, nor read any of the many threads that were posted and that had already decided this 'issue'.
Tell me, what do you believe would motivate your hypothetical 0.0 power block to abandon their holdings to chase complexes in FW space? I'll answer for you: nothing at all. If the Goons, for example, wanted to hot drop a capital fleet in to blast noobs in T1 frigates ... well, what's stopping them as is? Nothing at all. What advantage to joining FW would push them into forcing their entire membership to run missions for months just to get the standings required to do so? The vast untold wealth that is showered on every member of the militia? The stupendous fame enjoyed by being a part of the few, the proud, the militia? To my knowledge FW is hemorraging active players, which makes me wonder just how significant a draw it is...
Unless, of course, you give a flying excrement about the backstory of EVE, as we RPers do. I understand that the concept of RP in an MMORPG is wildly unpopular with the gankbear crowd, but it's still an interest to a number of people, most of whom are in a relative handful of RP alliances. And all of whom were, in effect, told by CCP to dissolve their alliances or kiss off.
Oh, and anyone who thinks that the 'one giant corp' option is feasible has clearly never been in even a small alliance. Suggest to the Alliance Formerly Known As BoB that they should reform into a single corp and see what sort of response you get.
-- Becq Starforged
The Flame of Freedom Burns On! |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.04.10 00:29:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Marlona Sky You say issue like its a problem. There is a very specific reason why alliance are not allowed to join faction warfare.
You are incorrect and have somewhat missed the boat on the discussion. CCP already agreed with CSM1 to implement this after we carried the request from an overwhelming proportion of respondants across the RP and FW communities.
Quote: That would be like an alliance within an alliance.
No, militias are not alliances. They are designed that way with intention.
Quote: All it would take is one 0.0 power block to join and the opposite faction has no hope of ever winning anymore.
Won't happen or they won't really be a 0.0 power block anymore. And if it did happen? So what? This is Eve, this is the giant political sandbox and such things should be able to potentially happen. Its against the ethos of the game to rail-off and deny involvement to players interested in faction warfare and affairs of npc empires.
In any case this issue has ALREADY been successfully escalated and presented to CCP during CSM1 and we are simply awaiting the implementation promised by CCP.
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Vincent Gaines
Tau Online Explorator Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.10 01:32:00 -
[25]
also toss in that gaining occupancy should bring about rewards and hurt the losing faction.
make it mean something.
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Agent Known
Apotheosis of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.04.10 04:47:00 -
[26]
Originally by: T Dave Supporting an important topic.
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Alex Tremayne
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.04.10 09:36:00 -
[27]
This needs to be done. Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort |
Albert Rosenfeld
God's Unwanted Children
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Posted - 2009.04.10 15:15:00 -
[28]
Yes, please. Do it. Just do it.
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Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.04.10 19:45:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Vincent Gaines also toss in that gaining occupancy should bring about rewards and hurt the losing faction.
make it mean something.
I agree completely. There have been a number of fine issues set forth involving improvements to FW, including:
* Redesigning complexes so that the best tactic involves one or two frigates. * Making occupancy more meaningful in terms of actual game effects. * Adding a system of rewards in such a way that allows the militia to fund itself while pursuing FW goal, yet doesn't draw farmers. * Fixing the badly broken complex spawning mechanics.
No doubt there are other ideas slipping my mind, but there's a few. Improving FW is a worthy cause ... but one that is seperate from this one, and will likely require a bit more thought to do right. This issue is far more straightforward to fix; CCP has indicated that it could require as little as removing an inhibit that currently prevents corps that are in alliances to join FW (under the same conditions that must be met by every other corp joining).
-- Becq Starforged
The Flame of Freedom Burns On! |
Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.04.10 21:54:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Becq Starforged
Originally by: Vincent Gaines also toss in that gaining occupancy should bring about rewards and hurt the losing faction.
make it mean something.
I agree completely. There have been a number of fine issues set forth involving improvements to FW, including:
* Redesigning complexes so that the best tactic involves one or two frigates. * Making occupancy more meaningful in terms of actual game effects. * Adding a system of rewards in such a way that allows the militia to fund itself while pursuing FW goal, yet doesn't draw farmers. * Fixing the badly broken complex spawning mechanics.
No doubt there are other ideas slipping my mind, but there's a few. Improving FW is a worthy cause ... but one that is seperate from this one, and will likely require a bit more thought to do right. This issue is far more straightforward to fix; CCP has indicated that it could require as little as removing an inhibit that currently prevents corps that are in alliances to join FW (under the same conditions that must be met by every other corp joining).
I've personally raised all of those things, some of which repeatedly, please stay on topic. ---
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