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Mikal Drey
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.12 11:12:00 -
[1]
hey hey
im slowly going through the L1 "epic" arc mission and im realising that the L4 versions could become very problematic.
The whole standings debate is always an issue amongst the community and the epic are might cause even more.
the SOE agent sent me to Gallente and CONCORD and the Gallente agent has sent me to Caldari.
i am -2.14 to Caldari (effective) and shouldnt be given access to any agent from their faction so the epic arc breaks the usual standings rules. i wonder if this should even be possible. i warped to the mission and saw 6x Caldari Navy Battleships and i had that deep down temptattion to blow them up. they also didnt even shoot at me and were white on my overview :'''(
If a Level 4 mission gives something similar going Minmatar to Scummarr space then i will be KOS effectivly cutting the mission off. i think its easily conceivable that people who have got to L4 missions and worked their *******s off for their beloved faction would become KOS to an oposing faction.
i am often amongst the first to say that once you make a decision you should stick by it and suffer acordingly but have CCP realised that crossing factions and factional space has consequences and a big part of the community do not want more factional content and have the desire to be able to play in every part of the universe.
Remebering that the higher the level the greater the rewards and the greater the impact of your actions epic arcs could cut you off pretty fast and if your already cut off you potentially cannot even access your own races epic content due to crossing over :/
the epic arc L1 mission is a decent enough introduction but immediatly drops people into the whole standing debate with no warning and eventually (usually way to late) they realise that they have comitted mass genocide and are now KOS to a quarter of the Factions.
maybe its just me who noticed :)
Shattered Crystal - 60 day GTC
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.04.12 12:07:00 -
[2]
It is specifically stated on the note that the capsuleer has to be able to access all empires. Future Epic Arc do not necessarily have that restriction.
In fact IIRC this arc was intended for newbies and as such designed to show them the empires to allow them a greater view and thus choice on what to do and where to settle once they get more into the game.
The issue you have exists only theoretical under the assumption that all Epic Arcs will be designed the same way. -------- Ideas for: Mining
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KISOGOKU
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Posted - 2009.04.12 14:06:00 -
[3]
Yes standings will be problem if CCP keep all 4 factions in epic arcs.No i dont think guys at CCP thought old players would try lvl1 epic arcs ,now they learned this is a problem.Easiest way for epic arcs with 2 (or more allied )factions like one side with amarr/caldari (ammatar/khanid etc) and other side minmatar/gallente Dont worry you still cant work for caldari even if you completed lvl4 epic arc ,you would gain only corp standings but your faction standings would be -2.1 still ,still no missiopn to you from caldari agents
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Mikal Drey
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.13 08:25:00 -
[4]
Originally by: KISOGOKU Dont worry you still cant work for caldari even if you completed lvl4 epic arc ,you would gain only corp standings but your faction standings would be -2.1 still ,still no missiopn to you from caldari agents
not exactly true :/
IF the arc missions count as a mission towards corp/faction i will then be able to rinse and repeat the missions till i got 16 missions from a hostile corp and **pop** i get a caldari storyline (dunno if it would be refusable or accessable)
abbrazzar thats exactly what i was thinking. hopefully they have already taken it all into consideration and yep im fully aware that the mission is a L1 flavor testser hence potential problems and not current. also with introduction stuff CCP should make people alot more aware that what they are about to do has a consequence. id prefer screwing them over totally but i coubt the acounts would :)
Shattered Crystal - 60 day GTC
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CCP Jasonitas
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Posted - 2009.04.13 13:49:00 -
[5]
Howdy folks,
"The Blood-Stained Stars" was designed as a tour of New Eden for level 1 players. As such, if you low standings with one faction, you should take caution in doing this Epic Arc.
Future arcs are not going to be this wide in its faction scope (although we can certainly design it that way if we so desire). Most likely, the Epic Arcs are going to be confined to one or two factions, not all-encompassing like "The Blood-Stained Stars." But again, it all depends on the stories we want to tell and the breadth of our designs. Epic Arcs are flexible tools, and we have the versatility to make them as large or small as we want.
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Wirox Crotikus
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Posted - 2009.04.13 17:41:00 -
[6]
By the way. Even so... I have done my share of missions. And i have a char that can run, lvl 5 for every race in eve. The problem most have is the Faction standing to each race. If u do the storyline missions u will get +/- sec standing to the faction. But if ur nor doing them. U are not getting any -sec to the corp or faction standing. So basicly u will be able to travel to any part of eve, and still be able to make lvl. 4-5 in any racial system.
But yes, u guys are right. It could be fun though to see how many missions people would actually try. I would say none. But lets all be looking foreward to the excitement on the New lvl. 4-5 epic missions.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.04.13 17:58:00 -
[7]
Originally by: CCP Jasonitas Howdy folks,
"The Blood-Stained Stars" was designed as a tour of New Eden for level 1 players. As such, if you low standings with one faction, you should take caution in doing this Epic Arc.
Future arcs are not going to be this wide in its faction scope (although we can certainly design it that way if we so desire). Most likely, the Epic Arcs are going to be confined to one or two factions, not all-encompassing like "The Blood-Stained Stars." But again, it all depends on the stories we want to tell and the breadth of our designs. Epic Arcs are flexible tools, and we have the versatility to make them as large or small as we want.
perhaps use epic arcs to "Fix standings" Play out a turf war between guristas and serpentis that spills into caldari and gallente space. and depending on your actions you can get a + standing change to one of the involved factions.
go to bust up a Drug hub with either the guristas or serpentists, and as you come in to bust it up you get some support from either caldari or gallente (whichever is the opposite of the sovereign space) as they were chasing them down. and well you can then go and kill them and get some phat tag lootage. or hand over the contraband to them and get a small faction increase. or even assist the guristas/serpentis and kill the empire factions. the arc could then jump in any number of ways from that.
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Mikal Drey
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.13 23:00:00 -
[8]
thanks for the reply Jason.
the L1 is pretty decent in the way its does show you around and bugs and ****ty design flaws aside im liking it overall and its a good introduction to missions and probably the better of most of the latest NPE additions.
I really would like the L4 arc's to have much more branching and decision making. the standings issues should be taken into consideration as well as maybe causing a few branches to be more cut off than others. I know i could ninja into a .9 amarr space in a blockade runner and probably survive but i doubt i could run a mission in amarr space for more than a minute or so.
also the reverse standing effect should be true. those of us with high standings and low standings to the racial enemy could be given better branching as there is no real rewards for going all the way for your empire. you could take a branch based on having low low low standings and make it deeply factional with more negative faction hits and vice versa having a branch where only the most loyal can proceed.
im not sure if it was a bug or unintended game design but the caldari agent had the same repsonse i would usually get "begone scum... havent you checked your standings etc..." yet i was still offered the mission regardless :/ i might have liked to have been refused as it would have been alot more fitting with the storyline and current game mission mechanics.
its nice to know that the arc's have given you guys the flexibility to break all the rules
thanks again for the response J
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.04.14 00:40:00 -
[9]
Quote:
Howdy folks,
"The Blood-Stained Stars" was designed as a tour of New Eden for level 1 players. As such, if you low standings with one faction, you should take caution in doing this Epic Arc.
So, I *am* a level 1 player.
I happen to have joined a corporation in factional war against Caldaris. You know, the "level 1 player" PvP.
Now, I can't play the level 1 player epic arc because my level 1 player PvP will get me killed on sight as I enter Caldari lands.
How do we fit this in the big picture?
Why not adding another branch where you can actually have a choice to ie only do courier missions in enemy lands? I can dodge their police, it's "just" the deadspace missions that spawn the police inside them and kill my ship.
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Atlas Oracle
Minmatar Colossus Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.04.14 00:41:00 -
[10]
i agree with chainsaw that you could use this vehicle for some interesting faction rep repair mechanics. that would be cool. some of us mission bears have some horrific faction rep scenarios, sometimes caused by ignorance from not knowing how faction rep worked in the beginning.
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Hells Elysium
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Posted - 2009.04.14 01:04:00 -
[11]
im an actual 30 day old player. not an alt on 30 days, actually just played for 30 days. The epic arc was exactly what it said on the tin. Truly epic for me. Learnt so much about the game, met new friends who helped me through the final two missions.
This 1st epic arc was beautiful in its design and execution, Eve is a commerical entity and as a tool to encourage interest from new players, it has (in my noobie opinion) worked fabulously. Who cares some level 4/5 guys struggled with it... this one wasn't designed for you so nob off with your suggestions?
The guys who made this game obviously know how to make a successful game. Everything u can suggest to them, u can guarantee has already been considered, so kick back, go rat some noob asteroid fields or whatever it is u do that makes u so much better than every1 else, and wait for the developers to be assed designing some level 4/5 epic arcs for the 'core' aka guaranteed regardless subsciption money per month before you comment?
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.04.14 03:36:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
Howdy folks,
"The Blood-Stained Stars" was designed as a tour of New Eden for level 1 players. As such, if you low standings with one faction, you should take caution in doing this Epic Arc.
So, I *am* a level 1 player.
I happen to have joined a corporation in factional war against Caldaris. *DING* You know, the "level 1 player" PvP.
Now, I can't play the level 1 player epic arc because my level 1 player PvP will get me killed on sight as I enter Caldari lands.
How do we fit this in the big picture?
Why not adding another branch where you can actually have a choice to ie only do courier missions in enemy lands? I can dodge their police, it's "just" the deadspace missions that spawn the police inside them and kill my ship.
you went ding, you are level 2 (note the slight edit I made in the quote of your post)
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.04.14 03:37:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Atlas Oracle i agree with chainsaw that you could use this vehicle for some interesting faction rep repair mechanics. that would be cool. some of us mission bears have some horrific faction rep scenarios, sometimes caused by ignorance from not knowing how faction rep worked in the beginning.
nah, get me content that gets me closer to -10 with gallente
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.04.14 03:39:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Mikal Drey
also the reverse standing effect should be true. those of us with high standings and low standings to the racial enemy could be given better branching as there is no real rewards for going all the way for your empire. you could take a branch based on having low low low standings and make it deeply factional with more negative faction hits and vice versa having a branch where only the most loyal can proceed.
I like this thinking *read*Chainsaw Has high caldari, low gallente standings*/read*
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Mikal Drey
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.14 07:14:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Hells Elysium Who cares some level 4/5 guys struggled with it... this one wasn't designed for you so nob off with your suggestions?
**blah**
firstly nothing was really said in a negative way about the L1 "arc" and due to the "core" players continually giving feedback to the developers and consistintly wanting more from PVE content WE now have the epic arcs and various other ingame content.
also CCP have this other server called SISI where new content it tested and feedback generated from the CORE and the NEW players so that it can go live in a useable state. having the older and much much more experienced players communicate with CCP giveds them so much better feedback as we see the pitfalls and issues pretty much before they do.
im very glad that the epic arc gave you the experience you needed and you enjoyed it but omg you really dont understand how CCP and the game works. also you have no idea of the scope that the arcs offer. you are also missing the fact that CCP promised something and didnt deliver :''(
i commented because i saw a problem and i commented because i actually weirdly give a **** about something i love and have played for the last 4 years.
btw welcome to the universe we call new eden (AKA EVE)
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Creye
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.04.14 07:47:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
So, I *am* a level 1 player.
I happen to have joined a corporation in factional war against Caldaris. You know, the "level 1 player" PvP.
Now, I can't play the level 1 player epic arc because my level 1 player PvP will get me killed on sight as I enter Caldari lands.
That's why I'm keeping myself from FW (in which I highly interested) untill I'm done with Epic Arc (The Ens is Nigh though :) ). But I cannot see the big problem here. You may quit militia for a while and then came back, no?
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Mikal Drey
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.14 09:03:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Creye But I cannot see the big problem here. You may quit militia for a while and then came back, no?
when you gain standings in FW or any factional standings you will get a negative gain for the oposing standings. this is generally called the derived modification.
with the negative gains in FW you are often KOS to the other empire even after you leave. The militia gives you automatic KOS but the gains and negative gains will give you more permanent affect.
Vaerah shows ingame as +1.04 to gallente and -0.17 to caldari. the longer she stays in and the higher up the rankings she goes the greater the impact. going -5 is closer than you think.
but thats a totally different tangent :)
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Hells Elysium
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Posted - 2009.04.14 11:09:00 -
[18]
Mikel, if i recall, the release notes for this version of Eve mentioned they had to prioritse other areas, so they've just laid the foundation with 1 epic arc, and more content will follow later, so i wouldn't worry too much!
Also, that ccp dude who replied pretty early on mentioned ur concerns have already been considered in the development of future arcs, so I guess that covers that and everything else in this thread (to be brutally honest) is pretty irrelevant, quite why the CCP dude didn't lock it after he posted I don't know.
Im aware of the test server aye, its great you guys give something back and help in development and testing, but you kind of just emphasised my point. You guys are the core, you love this game and your monthly subscription is guaranteed! The current epic arc is for the noobs (ie myself) to get us hooked, like a bank offering incentives to new customers ;)
The only thing I don't understand in all of this, and is probably a conversation for another thread, is why theres a large part of the community who don't want factional content. I think it's great that you have to pick a side, and that decision has some pretty dire consequences. If I find myself cut off from certain areas in the future due to earlier decisions, undoubtedly it will be frustrating, but I also like the idea of having to work my bo**oks off to try and repair a faction standing, kinda like atonement for my sins etc. This is a rpg after all, I don't want it all handed to me on a plate, that would be pretty boring :/
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Mikal Drey
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.14 12:28:00 -
[19]
hells, your part of a small minority (although some think otherwise) there are some of the older community who love the factional content and realise that half the universe can be cut off from you but also realise that its not clear and you can still enjoy the benefits :)
the getting cut off is a major debate on this forum standings affect so much and make life seriously hard at times. with EVE becoming a more and more generic cut and paste mmolg with content becoming very magnolia compared to its blood red past. with the accountants driving content and ccp desiring a greater slice of the subscription pie eve has become more and more filtered. where as some see it as a simple groth of the game as a whole entity some still seek the harsh reality of EVE and the factional content is a big part of that.
EVE is magical in that it managed to encompass RP/PVP/PVE all in one sandbox and unfortunatly the community is often very split in its opinions. CCP have a decent relationship with its community and its us that helps drive the content to where it is today. there is still some of the nasty side of their meglomania but there is also some CCP wearing hello kitty boxershorts. its a balance thats hard to achieve.
when you take your initial steps the best advice is to remember that as you go deeper into the rabbit hole you might get just get stuck. play to make yourself happy and help drive the content with more and more feedback negative or otherwise. if you still got the same attitude in a years time when you cant get into amarr space to play the love quest or your tempest goes ap through the wrong system and you go for tea and come back to see a pod floating in space or your alliance moves to the ass end of the universe across space you cant get through . . . . . feel free to hit me up :)
welcome to EVE :)
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.04.14 12:37:00 -
[20]
Quote:
That's why I'm keeping myself from FW (in which I highly interested) untill I'm done with Epic Arc (The Ens is Nigh though :) ). But I cannot see the big problem here. You may quit militia for a while and then came back, no?
I can't leave FW because the whole corporation is FW. I don't want to leave the corp because... well I am not going to find others like them.
Quote: Mikel, if i recall, the release notes for this version of Eve mentioned they had to prioritse other areas, so they've just laid the foundation with 1 epic arc, and more content will follow later, so i wouldn't worry too much!
What if the next arcs are chained with the first one? Joining FW = perma exclusion from any future fun PvE?
Quote:
The only thing I don't understand in all of this, and is probably a conversation for another thread, is why theres a large part of the community who don't want factional content.
Because the arc came *after* those radical decisions were made, so there has not been any opportunity to actually pick a choice. If you were lucky, welcome in the fun stuff. Else you are sod off.
Quote:
but I also like the idea of having to work my bo**oks off to try and repair a faction standing, kinda like atonement for my sins etc
Sort of leaving old time friends and corp - only way to drop FW for me (I prefer to quit EvE at this point), what would be the repair solution for me?
Even worse, it's not like by being in FW you lose "half" of the content (the enemy faction). You lose it ALL. You lose it all because the arc is half Caldari and half Gallente / whatever so whatever your choice you are boned.
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Mikal Drey
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.14 12:47:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Sort of leaving old time friends and corp - only way to drop FW for me (I prefer to quit EvE at this point), what would be the repair solution for me?
im almost done (gotta go to work) but i am -9.9 to amarr and i was able to start the amarr portion as its based in AMMATAR space :)
the faction police only KOS in their space so maybe moving the arcs towards the subfactions and even into low sec where the coppers cant get ya would help.
remember by being in FW you also have access to exclusive FW content.
it kinda highlights my point that people always want both sides of the coin. i can do the arc but cant do any FW agents, i cant join the amarr militia or caldari militia and wont ever get some minmatar decorations as my alliance cant join FW. its the same for both sides of the coin. people WILL get cut off with factional driven content wether its epic arcs or factional warefare.
maybe ccp can come up with exculsive fw arcs as well :)
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Angelos
Gateway Industries
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Posted - 2009.04.14 16:22:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
So, I *am* a level 1 player.
I happen to have joined a corporation in factional war against Caldaris. You know, the "level 1 player" PvP.
Now, I can't play the level 1 player epic arc because my level 1 player PvP will get me killed on sight as I enter Caldari lands.
How do we fit this in the big picture?
First off, there are no levels. Second, Faction Warfare is PvP. It is not noob PvP, and it offers even more drawbacks than regular open PvP. A new player shouldn't just jump into faction warfare, that is not what it is there for.
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Siri Blue
Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Hoodlums Associates
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Posted - 2009.04.16 11:24:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Siri Blue on 16/04/2009 11:35:12 Having negative 9.6 and 9.5 standings with the Amarr empire and the Caldari State....I actually lost a valuable ship doing the epic mission arc.... The Faction Navies really need an overhaul so they at least drop stuff when killed and can be fought with enough numbers and good equipment.... Right now its a broken game mechanic imho...the damn navy even finds you in the deepest deadspace and is nearly as overpowered as CONCORD (with Concord its fine, with the navies its not).
As for the END of the epic mission arc.... The ending is very unrewarding and sudden - the actual reward for the last mission is an insult... The Epic mission arcs were announced with giving nice and unique rewards at the end of each arc.....all this one gave was 200 k ISK - an insult - even for a noobie who spent so much time on the arc!
People for Stuff Raffle - No ISK needed
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