Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
480
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 00:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
So there I was, sitting around in my Megathron when a blob arrives sporting a Kitsune. Now, I have a healthy respect (hate?) for Falcons/Rooks, but I thought "all EAS are garbage, the Kitsune can't be that bad". Big mistake. Who knew it has 80% of the jam strength of a Falcon?
So yeah, me (solo) vs. blob w/ Kitsune = dead. But only because I was permajammed and never once had the opportunity to lock anyone. At all. Ever.
Soooo disappointing.
All of the other EAS are complete garbage. Why is the Kitsune so good in comparison? Do the other EAS need to be buffed? Is ECM simply overpowered and too good? I keep trying to find a situation where a frig would be justified permajamming a BS and I can't. Can you? Intelligence shouldn't be free. -á Mining, reloaded. -á-áADDICTED. |
Perihelion Olenard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
22
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 00:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
The way I see it, either you're completely jammed or you're not. The only thing that varies is the chance and not the degree. That's why ECM is good. |
Kumi Mashiba
State War Academy Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 00:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kitsunes have no tank. Pop it in one hit.
Plus they have rooms for only 4 jammers.
Summary: ECCM, set drones on kitsune, wreck fleet. Took on a 4x destroyer, incursus, + kitsune fleet the other day 1v6 in a harbinger doing just this (http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=13247109 , hound unaffiliated with either party).
No, kitsune are not overpowered. At all. They must be flown very carefully. And, like all other ships in eve, there is a counter tactic. |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
438
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 00:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
kitsunes are very frail, but they can wreck havoc when paired with a fast gang.
and in reply to your question about EAF's, besides kitsune only the sentinel is worth mentioning. solo boat with good quality.
Keres and Hyena aren't worth your time. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
480
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 00:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kumi Mashiba wrote:Kitsunes have no tank. Pop it in one hit.
Plus they have rooms for only 4 jammers.
Summary: ECCM, set drones on kitsune, wreck fleet. Took on a 4x destroyer, incursus, + kitsune fleet the other day 1v6 in a harbinger doing just this (http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=13247109 , hound unaffiliated with either party).
No, kitsune are not overpowered. At all. They must be flown very carefully. And, like all other ships in eve, there is a counter tactic.
No extra mid to devote to an ECCM. And I have yet to fit an ECCM and have it keep me from being jammed.
Second, I never had a chance to lock the Kitsune, as I was in a BS. Third, the Kitsune is able to operate outside of my standard drone control range, hence no auto aggro by my Warrior IIs. Fourth, the issue here is frig vs. T2 recon jam strength effectiveness, and overall ECM effectiveness in general.
Fun fact: due to the extremely long cycle time of ECM, they can be overheated for an entire fight (2-3 minutes at least) without burning out, further increasing their peak jam strength. It's ridiculous. Intelligence shouldn't be free. -á Mining, reloaded. -á-áADDICTED. |
Darthewok
Perkone Caldari State
64
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 01:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
EAS are actually a very bad idea. They will either be underpowered or overpowered, very very hard to be balanced.
Why do frigates need an EWAR platform? And why does EWAR need a frigate class? It's a white elephant class that is either junk or so OP it wrecks the game.
Just remove it, refund the SP and focus on cruiser/BS size EWAR. CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0 |
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
480
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 01:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
Darthewok wrote:EAS are actually a very bad idea. They will either be underpowered or overpowered, very very hard to be balanced.
Why do frigates need an EWAR platform? Frigate swarms are not so common as to require an EWAR frig. Plus if they see one, they just run, so there is no point to it.
And why does EWAR need a frigate class? It either ends up too weak to affect larger ships and therefore useless. Or if its EWAR is strong enough to affect larger ships, it is OP because on top of the disabling effect of EWAR it has sig tanking which makes it untouchable.
It's a white elephant class that is either junk or so OP it wrecks the game.
Just remove it, refund the SP and focus on cruiser/BS size EWAR.
I think that if the other three were buffed slightly, and ECM nerfed down a little bit (the Kitsune's bonuses aren't over the top, ECM is just too good) then I think they would be fine. When was the last time you saw a solo Keres kill? I'm thinking never.
Intelligence shouldn't be free. -á Mining, reloaded. -á-áADDICTED. |
Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords
181
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 02:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
well a griffon is better than a kisune in meany ways so ya not that op. I also don't know how it was locking you further than your drone control range. and lastly they got lucky even with skills like mine a battle ship locked out for more than a cycle is rather lucky with the jam strenght they had (as if he was locking you at over 50-69k he had to have rigs/lows fit to lock range and not ECM str). If you were soloing in a BS you had to know that that any gang with more than 3 people may have an answer for ya with in there fits, what if it would have been a sentinel kitting and nueting you out? or what if they all had damps? would that make thos things op? I have lost every kitsune i have flown there one of the worse ewar frigs there only saving grace is the fact that they ECM, there horble fitting and short lock range with only 2 rigs is a joke. I am in Factional Warfare. Have been from day one.-á-áI will never work for a mega corp in null-sec. Do not make FW like null-sec.-áMake FW worth our time. Reword us for what we already do.Give us some more activities to do. |
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
480
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 02:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:well a griffon is better than a kisune in meany ways so ya not that op. I also don't know how it was locking you further than your drone control range. and lastly they got lucky even with skills like mine a battle ship locked out for more than a cycle is rather lucky with the jam strenght they had (as if he was locking you at over 50-69k he had to have rigs/lows fit to lock range and not ECM str). If you were soloing in a BS you had to know that that any gang with more than 3 people may have an answer for ya with in there fits, what if it would have been a sentinel kitting and nueting you out? or what if they all had damps? would that make thos things op? I have lost every kitsune i have flown there one of the worse ewar frigs there only saving grace is the fact that they ECM, there horble fitting and short lock range with only 2 rigs is a joke.
Assuming a drone control range of 45km, a Kitsune's base lock range, without any other bonuses, and all skills at 5, is 52.5km. A Hypnos Multispec with all skills at 5 has an optimal of 53km. That is just under 10km outside of drone range.
If it weren't for the Kitsune, I could have killed *every single ship* in the enemy gang. Sure, it was a gang of 12+, but nothing I couldn't handle. The only issue was that I was sitting there helpless, unable to lock ANYTHING, for the duration of the 'fight'.
A Sentinel neuting me? At least I can get my drones on it. Someone damping me? At least I would be able to lock the guys orbiting me at 1km.
The Kitsune has 80% of the jamming strength of a Falcon, with just slightly better optimal, and five (!!!) mid slots. Damps have a stacking penalty. Why not ECM?
ECM is still too powerful, the chance to jam is too high, and the countermeasures are still too ineffective to be considered worthwhile. If I fit an ECCM module or rig I expect to be virtually jam proof when attacked by multiple ECM ships. Currently that isn't the case, and additionally, if you buff ECCM to the point that it would work it ruins the balance for probing out ships.
Intelligence shouldn't be free. -á Mining, reloaded. -á-áADDICTED. |
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
480
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 02:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
I think I have the solution: Active ECCM.
5 second cycle time, uses cap, has a % chance to permanently damage/offline the ECM modules of any ship currently jamming the ship running the active ECCM. One ECCM module doesn't get a chance to damage one module per ship, but ALL the modules currently activated by any ship currently activating those modules upon the target ship, whether they're actually jamming the target ship or not.
The mechanic would borrow from the current heat mechanic with respect to it's capability to damage modules. Keep running the ECCM and if you have ECM ships continue to jam the target ship, the ECM modules will continue to be damaged/burnt out until none remain. The effect of the ECCM module should be great enough that within 60 seconds of employment it should be able to completely burn out every single ECM module fit to a Falcon.
Actually, while writing this, I just figured out the rate of damage: 60 seconds in a minute, 5 second cycle time, 12 cycles per minute. Each cycle does 10% damage to any active module. Each module is destroyed in less than 60 seconds if run continuously against the target running ECCM. Run all your ECM vs. a single target and you will quickly destroy your entire array. Use a few and possibly lose your jam and you might have a few remaining for an extended fight.
Just to clarify: if you have 5x Falcons all placing 6x ECM modules on your ship and you're running a single ECCM, all 30 ECM modules would be destroyed inside of 60 seconds.
ECM modules would be able to be repaired just like current mechanics. Completely destroyed ECM modules would not be able to be repaired until docked.
Intelligence shouldn't be free. -á Mining, reloaded. -á-áADDICTED. |
|
ACE81
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 03:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
Hmm Ewar could be made more fun if it only broke locks no jamming timer with reduced cycle times to make up for no more jamming timer. then the only penalty would be how long it would take to reacquire a lock to fire.
Just my 2 isk |
Kaikka Carel
White syndicate
40
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 07:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
ACE81 wrote:Hmm Ewar could be made more fun if it only broke locks no jamming timer with reduced cycle times to make up for no more jamming timer. then the only penalty would be how long it would take to reacquire a lock to fire.
Just my 2 isk
Completely agree. Also it would have a natural scaling as for bigger size vessels it takes longer to reaquire the lock. Also it might bring back scan resolution damps as a part of EWAR combo. |
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
145
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 07:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
Mors Sanctitatis wrote: If it weren't for the Kitsune, I could have killed *every single ship* in the enemy gang. Sure, it was a gang of 12+, but nothing I couldn't handle. The only issue was that I was sitting there helpless, unable to lock ANYTHING, for the duration of the 'fight'.
Butthurt and overbloated supermanego. Why do you think they brought the kitsune in the first place ? thinking a counter for your offer to the field of battle must be overpowered too.
You got outplayed and thurally owned ... deal with it.
|
Zdyszana Sierotka
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 08:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
ecm is a bit too op compared to other racial ewar you should know eccm is your friend... |
Sup B1tches
Quovis CORE Alliance
13
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 09:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
Cedo Nulli wrote:Mors Sanctitatis wrote: If it weren't for the Kitsune, I could have killed *every single ship* in the enemy gang. Sure, it was a gang of 12+, but nothing I couldn't handle. The only issue was that I was sitting there helpless, unable to lock ANYTHING, for the duration of the 'fight'.
Butthurt and overbloated supermanego. Why do you think they brought the kitsune in the first place ? thinking a counter for your offer to the field of battle must be overpowered too. You got outplayed and thurally owned ... deal with it.
You possess bad English. |
Maeltstome
Epidemic. F0RCEFUL ENTRY
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 10:17:00 -
[16] - Quote
The kitsune and the sentinel are only good because they are the only 2 of the 4 EAS that have a REAL strength bonuses.
They have no tank, no DPS and are designed to only use the EW of their race. getting gang-banged by a group of people then whining on the forums aside, i'm glad this happened. |
Nakkano
Internet Space Pimps
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 10:18:00 -
[17] - Quote
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:
No extra mid to devote to an ECCM. And I have yet to fit an ECCM and have it keep me from being jammed.
This is really just a common frustration in regards to ECM in general that I sympathize with. If you fly solo this is the kind of thing that is infuriating. Yes you expect to lose fights, but being able to do nothing completely sucks.
|
Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
438
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 11:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
since this is turning into yet another "NERF ECM" thread, I'll leave this here...
Grimpak wrote:Dhuras wrote:Not really, a single falcon can cripple entire mid size gangs, no other EWAR ship can do that, it is incredibly unbalanced. (Don't think im just bitching because I am on the losing side of ECM, I a a falcon pilot myself. but that's the thing. ECM is, like all ewar, a force multiplier. A force multiplier that actually has a hard ceiling on effectiveness. the issue here however is that, in that concept, it works fine, it's balanced, and any more changes you give to ECM itself it will upset the balance, most likely into total uselessness. Issue here is the very concept of ECM, together with eve's own pvp dynamics, being unbalanced. ECM should've been a tool for smaller, more balanced gangs to be able to go toe to toe against bigger, unidimensional gangs, and in that, it works. It also works excellently as a tie-breaker between equally-numbered and equally outfitted forces. However, when you apply said force multiplier mechanics to a bigger, also balanced gang, it blows stuff out of the water, while applying a mechanic that is simply "fun denial". And here lies the crux of the problem, since the jamming probability is based in an RNG vs sensor str mechanic. nerfing/boosting said sensor str variable directly would either make jamming too useless, or inconsequential. Boosting ship's sensor str indirectly (boosting ECCM) could also nerf ECM too harshly if overdone, or won't do anything at all, if just a slight nudge. which means that you either nerf ECM indirectly (by providing a valuable counter to it), or you do a complete overhaul to the ECM system. Then again, said options aren't good either, because the only worthwhile counter-module you can come up with for this job is damps, that are in a bit of a sorry state atm, but can become overpowered again due to their lack of RNG mechanics inside their optimals in addition to over-dampening effect that occurred back before they were nerfed (put enough dampeners on anything, including capital ships, and it works as good as a 100% effective jammer), and said overhaul can be too time-consuming for little to no practical changes in gameplay. in sum, ECM can't be balanced further without breaking it or throwing considerable devpower at it, more than it can be useful. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
78
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 12:06:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kitsune is a dedicated jamming frig. You got jammed. Happens. Problem is not the Ship. |
ELECTR0FREAK
18
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 13:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
A battleship with large weapons is pretty much going to be screwed against any frigate blob if they're intelligent enough to kill your drones. Discoverer of CCP's original missile damage formula. |
|
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
480
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 18:15:00 -
[21] - Quote
ELECTR0FREAK wrote:A battleship with large weapons is pretty much going to be screwed against any frigate blob if they're intelligent enough to kill your drones.
The gang composition is/was never an issue. Frigs? Who cares? I had 25 Warrior IIs to take care of them. The issue is a frig that has 80% of the peak jam strength of a Falcon, with greater ECM optimal range, and the ability to perma-jam a BS with a few multispec ECM.
Intelligence shouldn't be free. -á Mining, reloaded. -á-áADDICTED. |
FT Diomedes
Factio Paucorum
77
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 18:53:00 -
[22] - Quote
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:So there I was, sitting around in my Megathron when a blob arrives sporting a Kitsune. Now, I have a healthy respect (hate?) for Falcons/Rooks, but I thought "all EAS are garbage, the Kitsune can't be that bad". Big mistake. Who knew it has 80% of the jam strength of a Falcon?
So yeah, me (solo) vs. blob w/ Kitsune = dead. But only because I was permajammed and never once had the opportunity to lock anyone. At all. Ever.
Soooo disappointing.
All of the other EAS are complete garbage. Why is the Kitsune so good in comparison? Do the other EAS need to be buffed? Is ECM simply overpowered and too good? I keep trying to find a situation where a frig would be justified permajamming a BS and I can't. Can you?
This would be your loss? http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=16319007
You were dead the minute you got tackled or chose to engage. Stealth bomber, Raven, Myrmidon, Thorax, assorted frigs, and 2 Kitsunes.
But yeah, it was all the Kitsune's fault. Not yours. You would have lost that ship anyway. It's just easier to blame it all on ECM. |
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
146
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 19:05:00 -
[23] - Quote
Diomedes WINS !
PERFECT !
Lying about a loss and making a cry thread about ECM , priceless. |
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
480
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 19:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Mors Sanctitatis wrote:So there I was, sitting around in my Megathron when a blob arrives sporting a Kitsune. Now, I have a healthy respect (hate?) for Falcons/Rooks, but I thought "all EAS are garbage, the Kitsune can't be that bad". Big mistake. Who knew it has 80% of the jam strength of a Falcon?
So yeah, me (solo) vs. blob w/ Kitsune = dead. But only because I was permajammed and never once had the opportunity to lock anyone. At all. Ever.
Soooo disappointing.
All of the other EAS are complete garbage. Why is the Kitsune so good in comparison? Do the other EAS need to be buffed? Is ECM simply overpowered and too good? I keep trying to find a situation where a frig would be justified permajamming a BS and I can't. Can you? This would be your loss? http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=16319007You were dead the minute you got tackled or chose to engage. Stealth bomber, Raven, Myrmidon, Thorax, assorted frigs, and 2 Kitsunes. But yeah, it was all the Kitsune's fault. Not yours. You would have lost that ship anyway. It's just easier to blame it all on ECM.
Yep, but of course a kill mail in and of itself doesn't tell the entire story. The largest ships came in one by one and eventually piled on as they were having a hard time bringing me down. If I were able to lock anything I would have been able to reduce the incoming DPS to the point that I probably would have lived. I had plenty of cap and was able to rep right to the end. If only I had been able to lock a target or two... oh wait...
Also, the 2nd Kitsune was only there to ***** onto the kill mail. He didn't enter the fight until the very end.
Intelligence shouldn't be free. -á Mining, reloaded. -á-áADDICTED. |
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
480
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 19:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
Cedo Nulli wrote:Diomedes WINS !
PERFECT !
Lying about a loss and making a cry thread about ECM , priceless.
At what point exactly did I lie? A single Kitsune was the key factor in an otherwise winnable fight. Again, people are posting when they don't know what they're talking about.
Also- NPC corp posting alt? Lol.
Intelligence shouldn't be free. -á Mining, reloaded. -á-áADDICTED. |
FT Diomedes
Factio Paucorum
77
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 19:15:00 -
[26] - Quote
Dude, I get it. The Kitsune probably kept you from getting a lock on something early on in that fight, giving the rest of them time to pile on you. But your mistake was in initial target selection and not scouting, not because of the Kitsune. It did it's job properly in this fight. |
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
480
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 19:22:00 -
[27] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Dude, I get it. The Kitsune probably kept you from getting a lock on something early on in that fight, giving the rest of them time to pile on you. But your mistake was in initial target selection and not scouting, not because of the Kitsune. It did it's job properly in this fight.
Diomedes-
I've always respected your input (I've been around for a long while, this isn't my first character), but my point here is that the Kitsune's jam strength is 80% as strong as a Falcon/Rook. I think that relative to these very powerful and capable ships, it's too much for a frig.
OR,
The other 3 EAS need to be massively buffed to be as competitive as the Kitsune is.
When was the last time you heard someone scream on Teamspeak "OH MY GOD, THEY HAVE TARGET PAINTERS?!?!?!"
Saying "that's just the way it is, deal with it" never got anything fixed/improved.
Also- the Kitsune didn't keep me from getting a lock "early on", it kept me from getting a lock *at all*. I was literally shut out for the entire engagement. It's just silly.
Intelligence shouldn't be free. -á Mining, reloaded. -á-áADDICTED. |
Gul'gotha Derv'ash
Occupational Hazzard Ushra'Khan
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 20:10:00 -
[28] - Quote
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:Cedo Nulli wrote:Diomedes WINS !
PERFECT !
Lying about a loss and making a cry thread about ECM , priceless. At what point exactly did I lie? A single Kitsune was the key factor in an otherwise winnable fight. Again, people are posting when they don't know what they're talking about. Also- NPC corp posting alt? Lol.
There is absolutely 0 chance you would have survived that encounter even if the Kitsune(s) weren't there. Like a previous poster said you were dead as soon as you were tackled or tried to engage their bait. |
ELECTR0FREAK
18
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 20:15:00 -
[29] - Quote
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:ELECTR0FREAK wrote:A battleship with large weapons is pretty much going to be screwed against any frigate blob if they're intelligent enough to kill your drones. The gang composition is/was never an issue. Frigs? Who cares? I had 25 Warrior IIs to take care of them. The issue is a frig that has 80% of the peak jam strength of a Falcon, with greater ECM optimal range, and the ability to perma-jam a BS with a few multispec ECM.
Who cares how many Warrior II you had? You were screwed, ECM or not.
Discoverer of CCP's original missile damage formula. |
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
480
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 20:49:00 -
[30] - Quote
Gul'gotha Derv'ash wrote:Mors Sanctitatis wrote:Cedo Nulli wrote:Diomedes WINS !
PERFECT !
Lying about a loss and making a cry thread about ECM , priceless. At what point exactly did I lie? A single Kitsune was the key factor in an otherwise winnable fight. Again, people are posting when they don't know what they're talking about. Also- NPC corp posting alt? Lol. There is absolutely 0 chance you would have survived that encounter even if the Kitsune(s) weren't there. Like a previous poster said you were dead as soon as you were tackled or tried to engage their bait.
I've killed more with less. Their gang isn't that big a deal. I guess I'll remember to Fraps it next time, just for the evidence. I engage gangs this size by myself quite often, I don't have any issues unless there is a Falcon/Kitsune around.
Intelligence shouldn't be free. -á Mining, reloaded. -á-áADDICTED. |
|
Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
442
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 20:52:00 -
[31] - Quote
so in sum it's not because of ECM but because of the OP not knowing that in EVE there's always a bigger dog. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Katja Faith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
71
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 22:41:00 -
[32] - Quote
Wow, ECM-victim tears... Haven't seen this in a while. |
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
480
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 22:43:00 -
[33] - Quote
I just realized that the Kitsune gets +20% ECM strength PER LEVEL, while the Keres gets 5% per level. LOL? Intelligence shouldn't be free. -á Mining, reloaded. -á-áADDICTED. |
Kumi Mashiba
State War Academy Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 23:20:00 -
[34] - Quote
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:I just realized that the Kitsune gets +20% ECM strength PER LEVEL, while the Keres gets 5% per level. LOL?
20% per level is what's needed to reliably jam anything bigger than a T1 frigate. If it were 5% per level, Kitsune would be absolutely worthless. I do admit that the Keres 5% bonus is pitiful and should probably be buffed (with stacking penalties taken away), but that's another issue.
The biggest issue I see going on with the EWAR debacle is the fact that ECM doesn't have a "stacking penalty" , while everything else does. |
Moroccan Tourist
CRITICAL Novus
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 01:17:00 -
[35] - Quote
switch those ketsunes to 2 arbitrators with tracking disruptor , you'll will lock people and won't hit **** ! and die horribly and say EWAR is OP when you actually fought 1vs14 |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
117
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 02:06:00 -
[36] - Quote
Moroccan Tourist wrote:switch those ketsunes to 2 arbitrators with tracking disruptor , you'll will lock people and won't hit **** ! and die horribly and say EWAR is OP when you actually fought 1vs14 Except if you're in a mega you're sitting still, and the arbi's scram/webbed. Really not going to have troubles hitting in that situation There should be a rather awesome pic here |
FT Diomedes
Factio Paucorum
78
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 07:39:00 -
[37] - Quote
Copine Callmeknau wrote:Moroccan Tourist wrote:switch those ketsunes to 2 arbitrators with tracking disruptor , you'll will lock people and won't hit **** ! and die horribly and say EWAR is OP when you actually fought 1vs14 Except if you're in a mega you're sitting still, and the arbi's scram/webbed. Really not going to have troubles hitting in that situation
Why would the Arbitrators come within web or scram range? Unless they got dropped on their heads when they were babies... repeatedly. |
Reppyk
The Black Shell
117
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 09:52:00 -
[38] - Quote
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:All of the other EAS are complete garbage. And one day you'll met a good keres pilot. Point+damp outside of your locking & drone control range.
It's nasty. |
Tozmeister
Digital Fury Corporation Outbreak.
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 10:20:00 -
[39] - Quote
Reppyk wrote:Mors Sanctitatis wrote:All of the other EAS are complete garbage. And one day you'll met a good keres pilot. Point+damp outside of your locking & drone control range. It's nasty.
This.
You realise a tripple damping keres would have you down to 16km lock range?
1v14 "but I lost because of Kitsune..."
|
Death Toll007
Fleet of Doom Psychotic Tendencies.
50
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 14:48:00 -
[40] - Quote
-1 Whine thread is whine thread.
-DT |
|
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
480
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 18:39:00 -
[41] - Quote
Reppyk wrote:Mors Sanctitatis wrote:All of the other EAS are complete garbage. And one day you'll met a good keres pilot. Point+damp outside of your locking & drone control range. It's nasty.
I'm a big fan of damps, no need to sell me on the idea. I've killed more mission runners with a Lachesis than I can count. Long range point + damps is brilliant. Too bad the Keres has no dps lol.
Intelligence shouldn't be free. -á Mining, reloaded. -á-áADDICTED. |
Reppyk
The Black Shell
117
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 19:46:00 -
[42] - Quote
Mors Sanctitatis wrote: Too bad the Keres has no dps lol.
Enough to kill bombers ! But yeah. I don't get why the maulus has 2 drones and the keres 1. His brother is stuck in the drone bay.
CCP LISTEN TO ME JOE THE DRONE IS HAPPY OUTSIDE KILLING STUFF BUT TIMMY THE DRONE WANTS TO PLAY TOO
:cry: :whine:
|
Niko Takahashi
United Starbase Systems
38
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 20:29:00 -
[43] - Quote
And another thread starts.
I could not ferreted me mega guns for the mean overpowered ECM because me wiilllll. Of fit them ECCM things and just look stupid as thy kill me.
Really another one of these? |
Bernard Schuyler
The Scope Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 15:19:00 -
[44] - Quote
While I feel for you OP, this really is an ECM whine, because honestly, would the outcome have been ANY different if it was a Falcon or Rook instead?
The fact that the Kitsune platform is effective isn't particularly relevant here. |
Crellion
Parental Control
17
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 16:07:00 -
[45] - Quote
Tbh EAFs, Kitsune included are only useful in a blob v one person context, realistically... I mean in a fight with more people involved the first to get a gun, a missile, a drone or a nasty fart on that kitsune would have blaped it...
If anything I d like them buffed (and I dont even fly one with tech II EWAR on any char I own)... To make any sort of sense EAFs should have equal tank to an AF. Otherwise the moment your gang is facing more than a couple of hostiles every EAF pilot in the field would have been better of with a T1 EWAR frig (entierely disposable) or a T1 EWAR cruiser.
This does not mean that I dont have some sympathy for the OP. Indeed I feel the bigger problem with EWAR is that it is very effective against the solo player and progressively less effective against the blob.
What I persobally would like to see to overcome this would be an exponential increase in the EHP of ewar ships paired with a crippling stacking penalty to every second module activated against the same target. In a way that a Falcon with 5 multis could have 30% chance each to jam 5 targets of BS strength (permajamming 1.5 BSs for as logn as it is on the field) or a 38% (say) chance of jamming a single BS with all 5 mids on it...
I think this (appropriately tweaked by testing and whatnot) would be a step in the right direction... |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
278
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 16:19:00 -
[46] - Quote
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:
If it weren't for the Kitsune, I could have killed *every single ship* in the enemy gang. Sure, it was a gang of 12+, but nothing I couldn't handle. The only issue was that I was sitting there helpless, unable to lock ANYTHING, for the duration of the 'fight'.
You'd have been just as dead just as quickly if that Kitsune had been a Sentinel. |
Ravcharas
GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda
156
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 20:58:00 -
[47] - Quote
ECM shouldn't jam ships, it should jam modules. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3691
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 22:07:00 -
[48] - Quote
So what the OP is saying is...
...he would have gotten away with it if it hadn't been for that meddling Kitsune? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
30
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 00:25:00 -
[49] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:So what the OP is saying is...
...he would have gotten away with it if it hadn't been for that meddling Kitsune?
I don't think so, but he probably might enjoyed a fight where he could do something(even if the result would still be the same) more than just watching your ship dying.
For me at least this is the worst part about ECM, you can try to get closer or switch targets against damps, you time cap boosters different under neuts, you try to bring transversal down, range up/down vsTDs etc. With ECM there is simply nothing you can actively do against it without a lock, what makes it a very annoying mechanic(besides being kind of overpowered in small gang and solo fights). |
Ogopogo Mu
United Highsec Front The 99 Percent
79
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 00:50:00 -
[50] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:So what the OP is saying is...
...he would have gotten away with it if it hadn't been for that meddling Kitsune?
Why it's old man Malcanis, owner of the haunted shipyard! |
|
FT Diomedes
Factio Paucorum
81
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 02:07:00 -
[51] - Quote
The Djego wrote:Malcanis wrote:So what the OP is saying is...
...he would have gotten away with it if it hadn't been for that meddling Kitsune? I don't think so, but he probably might enjoyed a fight where he could do something(even if the result would still be the same) more than just watching your ship dying. For me at least this is the worst part about ECM, you can try to get closer or switch targets against damps, you time cap boosters different under neuts, you try to bring transversal down, range up/down vsTDs etc. With ECM there is simply nothing you can actively do against it without a lock, what makes it a very annoying mechanic(besides being kind of overpowered in small gang and solo fights).
Would it have been a better fight if the other fleet brought bonused tracking disruptors and damps? No. He still would have lost. At best, he would have watched every single one of his shots miss. At worst, he would have been damped down and unable to lock anything that had a long point on him.
I understand the frustration, I've been the stupid solo pilot who engaged a ship that I thought I could kill - only to have his 15 friends jump in to jam me and ***** on a solo Rifter kill. Did the enemy Falcon in my fight change the outcome? No. The rest of the gang would have killed me anyway. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6468
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 02:53:00 -
[52] - Quote
A bit late and slightly OT, butGǪMors Sanctitatis wrote:Assuming a drone control range of 45km, a Kitsune's base lock range, without any other bonuses, and all skills at 5, is 52.5km. A Hypnos Multispec with all skills at 5 has an optimal of 53km. That is just under 10km outside of drone range. GǪalways assume a drone control range of 57km, because that's what people will have without going all out with their drone skills.
20km base + 25km for Scout Drones V + 12km for EWar Drone Interfacing IV (some will take it to V for the full 60km, but anyone with a clue will have it at IV). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Zahhadune
Virtual Warriors IMPERIAL LEGI0N
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 19:17:00 -
[53] - Quote
Why do people assume that ECM stacks??? It doesn't, each module is independent of the next. If you have 4 multi spec ecm modules and each one has a 25% chance to jam that does mean they have a 100% chance to jam you. theoretically they still only have a 25% chance to jam you. Realistically its much higher. |
Andrea Griffin
276
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 19:34:00 -
[54] - Quote
The Sentinel is not garbage. It is an excellent ship - against one or two targets. Too flimsy for anything more, but for Very Small Gang Warfare it's a nice little ship, and it's good for some solo applications as well. It takes some finesse to pull off though - it's not for the faint of heart.
Crellion wrote:Tbh EAFs, Kitsune included are only useful in a blob v one person context, realistically... Not true; I used to fly the Kitsune in gang fights (4-8 vs. 4-8) to great effect when I was in Blood Money Cartel.
Why use a Kitsune over a Blackbird? Greater jam strength, greater agility. I much prefer it. Like the Sentinel, it's flimsy as heck, you have to be careful, but it's a nice little frigate. CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer. |
ELECTR0FREAK
38
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 01:03:00 -
[55] - Quote
Zahhadune wrote:Why do people assume that ECM stacks??? It doesn't, each module is independent of the next. If you have 4 multi spec ecm modules and each one has a 25% chance to jam that does mean they have a 100% chance to jam you. theoretically they still only have a 25% chance to jam you. Realistically its much higher.
Actually the chance of successfully jamming with one or more modules is calculated by first calculating the chance that no jam would succeed.
The chance a jam won't succeed is the opposite of the chance it will succeed. This is determined by subtracting the chance of success from 1 (1-.25), thus the chance a jam fails is .75 (75%) for each module. To calculate the chance of all your modules not jamming you multiply them together, ie .75*.75*.75*.75 = ~.32, or 32%.
So the opposite of all modules failing is for one or more to succeed. To determine this, subtract the chance that all modules fail from 1.
1 - .32 = .68, or 68%.
So if you use 4 jammers with a 25% chance to succeed against a target, the chance that 1 or more of them will succeed is 68%.
I find this a lot easier to understand than (1-(1-M/T)^n) where M = module jam strength, T = target sensor strength, and n = the number of jam modules you have.
Besides, if you do it the logical way, you know how to calculate multiple jammers of varying jam strength. Discoverer of CCP's original missile damage formula. |
Kumi Mashiba
State War Academy Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 01:45:00 -
[56] - Quote
Zahhadune wrote:Why do people assume that ECM stacks??? It doesn't, each module is independent of the next. If you have 4 multi spec ecm modules and each one has a 25% chance to jam that does mean they have a 100% chance to jam you. theoretically they still only have a 25% chance to jam you. Realistically its much higher.
NOBODY thinks that how it works. The thing is every other module has diminishing returns. First TD cuts tracking 60%, then the next by 50%, then 30%, and so on, until the 100th TD does 0%.
Whereas ECM, first jam has a 90% chance to jam, then the next has a 90% chance to jam, up until the 100th+ jam that STILL has a 90% chance to jam. No, it should not work this way; if there are several jams on a target, it they should get decreasingly effective.
Again, NOBODY thinks 4x25% jams means a 100% chance to jam. |
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
481
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 07:25:00 -
[57] - Quote
Kumi Mashiba wrote:Zahhadune wrote:Why do people assume that ECM stacks??? It doesn't, each module is independent of the next. If you have 4 multi spec ecm modules and each one has a 25% chance to jam that does mean they have a 100% chance to jam you. theoretically they still only have a 25% chance to jam you. Realistically its much higher. NOBODY thinks that how it works. The thing is every other module has diminishing returns. First TD cuts tracking 60%, then the next by 50%, then 30%, and so on, until the 100th TD does 0%. Whereas ECM, first jam has a 90% chance to jam, then the next has a 90% chance to jam, up until the 100th+ jam that STILL has a 90% chance to jam. No, it should not work this way; if there are several jams on a target, it they should get decreasingly effective. Again, NOBODY thinks 4x25% jams means a 100% chance to jam.
Also, Damps, TPs and TDs ALL RECEIVE A STACKING PENALTY, in addition to their designed-in natural stacking issues.
Intelligence shouldn't be free. -á Mining, reloaded. -á-áADDICTED. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3715
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 08:25:00 -
[58] - Quote
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:Kumi Mashiba wrote:Zahhadune wrote:Why do people assume that ECM stacks??? It doesn't, each module is independent of the next. If you have 4 multi spec ecm modules and each one has a 25% chance to jam that does mean they have a 100% chance to jam you. theoretically they still only have a 25% chance to jam you. Realistically its much higher. NOBODY thinks that how it works. The thing is every other module has diminishing returns. First TD cuts tracking 60%, then the next by 50%, then 30%, and so on, until the 100th TD does 0%. Whereas ECM, first jam has a 90% chance to jam, then the next has a 90% chance to jam, up until the 100th+ jam that STILL has a 90% chance to jam. No, it should not work this way; if there are several jams on a target, it they should get decreasingly effective. Again, NOBODY thinks 4x25% jams means a 100% chance to jam. Also, Damps, TPs and TDs ALL RECEIVE A STACKING PENALTY, in addition to their designed-in natural stacking issues.
But damps, TPs and TDs are qualitatively different in that they cause a cumulative effect, not a chance-based one. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Zyress
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
65
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 17:15:00 -
[59] - Quote
Kumi Mashiba wrote:Kitsunes have no tank. Pop it in one hit.
Plus they have rooms for only 4 jammers.
Summary: ECCM, set drones on kitsune, wreck fleet. Took on a 4x destroyer, incursus, + kitsune fleet the other day 1v6 in a harbinger doing just this (http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=13247109 , hound unaffiliated with either party).
No, kitsune are not overpowered. At all. They must be flown very carefully. And, like all other ships in eve, there is a counter tactic.
Less range than a griffin too. Wait till they make TD's work against missile ships Sentinels will be the deal. |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
446
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 18:30:00 -
[60] - Quote
Kumi Mashiba wrote:Whereas ECM, first jam has a 90% chance to jam, then the next has a 90% chance to jam, up until the 100th+ jam that STILL has a 90% chance to jam. No, it should not work this way; if there are several jams on a target, it they should get decreasingly effective.
also, to make people less confused, said 90% chance of jamming only happens if you have a 9 str jammer on a ship with sensor str of 10. 1:1 ratios on sensor str vs jammer str respectively means 100% jams, and in that same manner, 1:0.5 ratio means 50% jam chance.
I know (hope?) you were giving an example, but better put this on the clear too.
[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
|
Ogopogo Mu
United Highsec Front The 99 Percent
82
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 20:12:00 -
[61] - Quote
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:Kumi Mashiba wrote:Zahhadune wrote:Why do people assume that ECM stacks??? It doesn't, each module is independent of the next. If you have 4 multi spec ecm modules and each one has a 25% chance to jam that does mean they have a 100% chance to jam you. theoretically they still only have a 25% chance to jam you. Realistically its much higher. NOBODY thinks that how it works. The thing is every other module has diminishing returns. First TD cuts tracking 60%, then the next by 50%, then 30%, and so on, until the 100th TD does 0%. Whereas ECM, first jam has a 90% chance to jam, then the next has a 90% chance to jam, up until the 100th+ jam that STILL has a 90% chance to jam. No, it should not work this way; if there are several jams on a target, it they should get decreasingly effective. Again, NOBODY thinks 4x25% jams means a 100% chance to jam. Also, Damps, TPs and TDs ALL RECEIVE A STACKING PENALTY, in addition to their designed-in natural stacking issues.
Now petitioning CCP for stacking penalties on all things that don't really stack, including ECM, multiple remote repairs, more than one energy transfer array, triple reps on Myrmidons, and taking damage from more than one gun at a time. |
Kumi Mashiba
State War Academy Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 22:20:00 -
[62] - Quote
Ogopogo Mu wrote:
Now petitioning CCP for stacking penalties on all things that don't really stack, including ECM, multiple remote repairs, more than one energy transfer array, triple reps on Myrmidons, and taking damage from more than one gun at a time.
Because EWAR and logistics are totally the same thing. |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
395
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 11:51:00 -
[63] - Quote
ECM cycle time to 5 seconds. Skill to bring it to 10 seconds. Drones on agressive prioritize EW-ing enemies
ECM FIXED
The Kitsune is harder, but I'm thinking dropping the cost a bit, lowering the sig radius and giving it more EHP. Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors! |
Niko Takahashi
United Starbase Systems
38
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 14:40:00 -
[64] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Mors Sanctitatis wrote:
If it weren't for the Kitsune, I could have killed *every single ship* in the enemy gang. Sure, it was a gang of 12+, but nothing I couldn't handle. The only issue was that I was sitting there helpless, unable to lock ANYTHING, for the duration of the 'fight'.
You'd have been just as dead just as quickly if that Kitsune had been a Sentinel.
Exactly
|
Caldari Citizen20110707
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 17:36:00 -
[65] - Quote
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:well a griffon is better than a kisune in meany ways so ya not that op. I also don't know how it was locking you further than your drone control range. and lastly they got lucky even with skills like mine a battle ship locked out for more than a cycle is rather lucky with the jam strenght they had (as if he was locking you at over 50-69k he had to have rigs/lows fit to lock range and not ECM str). If you were soloing in a BS you had to know that that any gang with more than 3 people may have an answer for ya with in there fits, what if it would have been a sentinel kitting and nueting you out? or what if they all had damps? would that make thos things op? I have lost every kitsune i have flown there one of the worse ewar frigs there only saving grace is the fact that they ECM, there horble fitting and short lock range with only 2 rigs is a joke. Assuming a drone control range of 45km, a Kitsune's base lock range, without any other bonuses, and all skills at 5, is 52.5km. A Hypnos Multispec with all skills at 5 has an optimal of 53km. That is just under 10km outside of drone range. If it weren't for the Kitsune, I could have killed *every single ship* in the enemy gang. Sure, it was a gang of 12+, but nothing I couldn't handle. The only issue was that I was sitting there helpless, unable to lock ANYTHING, for the duration of the 'fight'. A Sentinel neuting me? At least I can get my drones on it. Someone damping me? At least I would be able to lock the guys orbiting me at 1km. The Kitsune has 80% of the jamming strength of a Falcon, with just slightly better optimal, and five (!!!) mid slots. Damps have a stacking penalty. Why not ECM? ECM is still too powerful, the chance to jam is too high, and the countermeasures are still too ineffective to be considered worthwhile. If I fit an ECCM module or rig I expect to be virtually jam proof when attacked by multiple ECM ships. Currently that isn't the case, and additionally, if you buff ECCM to the point that it would work it ruins the balance for probing out ships.
omg your such a big fact twisting whinor, 5 mids, dont rly need mwd do you.... 80% of falcon... loool falcon has twice the jamm strengt and fits 50% more jammers.... the kitsube is 1/4th a falcon with less chance to get jammd.. get your facs right before whining.
if your battlrship can take on 12 ppl it obvous needs nerfing. if kitsunes are so rare that ony 1/13 is one than nothing is wrong with it. A kitsune is more expensive than you battleship without insurance..
you just being butthurt about flying into a gank. caus of babies like you the game isnt half as good as it used to be
|
Metal Icarus
xHELLonEARTHx Rookie Empire
153
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 17:45:00 -
[66] - Quote
Caldari Citizen20110707 wrote: A kitsune is more expensive than you battleship without insurance..
Uhhh.... This is wrong.
|
Madbuster73
Shadows Of The Federation Drunk 'n' Disorderly
32
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 22:25:00 -
[67] - Quote
ECM is way too overpowered and everybody knows it. Cycletime of jammers are also way too long. I mean, if jamming-ship gets a single jam on you, it takes over 20 seconds cycle + time you need to relock = DEAD That is if you are very lucky that jamming ship doesnt permajam you ( they mostly do) Last time I had a dual ECCM - Ladar Stabber Fleet Issue to fight against Blackbird and Rupture. the Blackbird pretty much permajammed me, he only lost a jam once. I got 20 seconds to lock up Rupture and shoot it 3 times, then I got permajammed again. and that was with 2 overheated anti-jamming modules :S
ECM = Overpowered, It should just make you loose lock, or jammingcycle should be shortened to 5 seconds or so. + ECCM modules need to get buffed from 50% more resistence to 100%.
|
King Khaan
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 22:31:00 -
[68] - Quote
Mors Sanctitatis wrote: Fun fact: due to the extremely long cycle time of ECM, they can be overheated for an entire fight (2-3 minutes at least) without burning out, further increasing their peak jam strength. It's ridiculous.
That was one thing i dint know.. Thanks man. I don't like ecm ships much, but when i do fly them i never used to overload.. Well, i might try this next time. |
Nikodiemus
Jokulhlaup
24
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 23:35:00 -
[69] - Quote
EW frigs should be balanced to counter larger Ewar like Falcons//Arazu. That would give them a nice niche and not overpower them. Also give the Falcons something to fear. |
Reina Supremus
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 06:54:00 -
[70] - Quote
A Keres becomes 500% more valuable when combined with Target jamming frigates if it fits scan resolution dampener scripts. |
|
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 13:04:00 -
[71] - Quote
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:So there I was, sitting around in my Megathron when a blob arrives sporting a Kitsune. Now, I have a healthy respect (hate?) for Falcons/Rooks, but I thought "all EAS are garbage, the Kitsune can't be that bad". Big mistake. Who knew it has 80% of the jam strength of a Falcon?
So yeah, me (solo) vs. blob w/ Kitsune = dead. But only because I was permajammed and never once had the opportunity to lock anyone. At all. Ever.
Soooo disappointing.
All of the other EAS are complete garbage. Why is the Kitsune so good in comparison? Do the other EAS need to be buffed? Is ECM simply overpowered and too good? I keep trying to find a situation where a frig would be justified permajamming a BS and I can't. Can you?
EAF's are not all garbage, specifically that one. Gallente one IS garbage because Damps are crap. Minamatar one is awesome. Amarr one IS garbage.
Couple a few caldari/matar EAF's in a frig gang with logistics and you will find out you can take out entire bigger gangs out of the field with almost no effort. |
Zeb Rain
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 16:41:00 -
[72] - Quote
Ravcharas wrote:ECM shouldn't jam ships, it should jam modules.
Now this is a very interesting thought... |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
289
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 17:06:00 -
[73] - Quote
Zeb Rain wrote:Ravcharas wrote:ECM shouldn't jam ships, it should jam modules. Now this is a very interesting thought...
A script for disabling weapons, another for disabling neuts, nos, smarties and RR, another for medslot tackle and ewar? Or just have different mods tbh. Interesting idea. |
Zeb Rain
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 18:18:00 -
[74] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Zeb Rain wrote:Ravcharas wrote:ECM shouldn't jam ships, it should jam modules. Now this is a very interesting thought... A script for disabling weapons, another for disabling neuts, nos, smarties and RR, another for medslot tackle and ewar? Or just have different mods tbh. Interesting idea.
Or maybe just racks? could have different % to jam weaps/NoS from the % to jam Ewar mods - tackle etc. Imagine having your REPS jammed.. an entire sub branch of ECM could be possible and IMHO better than the *click* HAHA YOU DONE NOW FOO. Ecm = electronic counter measures. And change/get rid off ecm drones especially lights. i can see how heavy drones would have that ability but lights gotta go or get "balanced" |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |