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Orgasmotron
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Posted - 2009.04.18 21:58:00 -
[1]
OK, small religious argument here, and I would like to get confirmation one way or the other.
Person 1: If you have idle salvagers on your salvage boat, you can add them to a wreck to increase the cahnces of success on any given cycle.
Person 2: No, it doesn't work like that. The code is specifically written to ignore extra salvagers and just use the one chance % no matter how many are used.
Person 1: My personal experience disagrees. A BS wreck on average will be 4x as likely to succeed per cycle if you have 4 salvagers on it.
Person 2: No, this was explained by a dev.
Person 1: Got a link?
And here we are. Can anyone provide dev-sourced proof one way or the other? I am not intersted in your opinion or stories of your success. I want to see a dev-typed answer that closes the case.
Please? People may die if this isn't sorted out quickly!
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.04.18 22:11:00 -
[2]
Each salvager has an independent chance to retrieve salvage and stacking them doesn't increase that chance. However having multiple salvagers active on a wreck will give you more individual chances to retrieve said salvage, so using more salvagers is still increasing your overall salvage retrieval rate. Sounds like Person 1 and Person 2 misunderstood eachother.
And sorry but no, you can't have a link to a dev post. That's just how it works, so deal with it.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Malarkie
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Posted - 2009.04.18 22:13:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Wet Ferret Each salvager has an independent chance to retrieve salvage and stacking them doesn't increase that chance. However having multiple salvagers active on a wreck will give you more individual chances to retrieve said salvage, so using more salvagers is still increasing your overall salvage retrieval rate. Sounds like Person 1 and Person 2 misunderstood eachother.
And sorry but no, you can't have a link to a dev post. That's just how it works, so deal with it.
QFT
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.04.18 22:15:00 -
[4]
No dev-quote, but afaik, the Salvagers are completely separate units. No stacking or interrelated effects occur because each has its own chance to succeed at the end of its own cycle.
Adding more salvagers to a wreck just means you get more cycles that migh succeed — analogous to what happens with multiple ECM modules. The chance for success increase, not because the salvagers boost each other in any way, but because if one fails, another one immediately gets a shot…
However, if none of the salvagers have enough access bonus to break the wreck, it won't matter how many salvagers you add — 15 salvagers, each with a 0% chance of success, running one after another still adds up to 0% chance of success. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Tiirae
The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2009.04.18 22:20:00 -
[5]
But the main point of Person 1's argument is: If you have a field full of wrecks and they are spread apart so you can't keep all 4 salvagers busy at once on 4 different wrecks, you can put the idle ones to work on the wrecks you do have and over time, as an average, you will salvage quicker.
Person 2 says flat-out no, it will never do anything.
What I am reading here is that Person 1 is correct.
?
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.04.18 22:38:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Tippia on 18/04/2009 22:42:52
Originally by: Tiirae What I am reading here is that Person 1 is correct?
Not entirely. More salvagers does not "increase the chances of success on any given cycle" — that would entail that they improve on eachother's chances somehow and did one access test as a single unit.
The chance per cycle is still the same — you're just running more cycles on the wreck. Your chance for a success within a given timespan increases because you get more salvaging attempts. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Atsuko Ratu
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2009.04.18 22:39:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Atsuko Ratu on 18/04/2009 22:43:25 Edited by: Atsuko Ratu on 18/04/2009 22:42:50 How would that not be correct? :x
Two 15% chances will, on average, salvage something faster than a single 15% chance, assuming same speeds etc.
Originally by: Tippia
Not entirely. More salvagers does not "increase the chances of success on any given cycle." The chance per cycle is still the same ù you're just running more cycles on the wreck. Your chance for a success within a given timespan increases because you get more salvaging attempts.
If they are running at the same time, people tend to combine the two separate cycle chances into a single "cycle". If you think of it like this, the chance of success during that "cycle" is increased, when you add more salvagers to it, even though each salvager is running on its own "cycle" chance.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.04.18 22:44:00 -
[8]
edited (again!) for clarity ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Atsuko Ratu
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2009.04.18 22:45:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tippia edited (again!) for clarity
Mine is still relevant!
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.04.18 22:52:00 -
[10]
It's a question of semantics:
I interpret "increased chance per cycle" as meaning additional salvagers will add/stack their access bonus to the first salvager — this is not the case. The chance per cycle does not increase, you're just running more cycles faster.
Again, the simple test for whether the chance increases is if using more salvagers allows you to access harder wrecks, and it doesn't. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.04.18 23:05:00 -
[11]
Edited by: AstroPhobic on 18/04/2009 23:10:33 eds:fail parenthesis fail
Each module has an independent chance of salvaging the wreck. Let's say that each salvager has a 10% chance to salvage an individual wreck. When using both salvagers at once, you don't have a 10% chance to salvage the wreck, or a 20% chance. The actual chance is something like 19%.
How do you calculate this?
1 - ((1 - (chance to salvage, .1 in my example))^n), where n is the number of salvagers used on a particular wreck.
.9*.9 = .81 1 - .81 = .19 or 19%
Also, it's to be noted that resists work in somewhat the same way, with base resists and stacking penalties jammed in the middle.
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Orgasmotron
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Posted - 2009.04.19 00:27:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 18/04/2009 22:42:52
Originally by: Tiirae What I am reading here is that Person 1 is correct?
Not entirely. More salvagers does not "increase the chances of success on any given cycle" ù that would entail that they improve on eachother's chances somehow and did one access test as a single unit.
The chance per cycle is still the same ù you're just running more cycles on the wreck. Your chance for a success within a given timespan increases because you get more salvaging attempts.
Bingo. The key thing here is the semantics. But if you say 'within the same timespan' instead of 'cycle', it is a lot clearer.
Of course the boob in the NPC corp arguing that it doesn't work isn't going to admit he's an idiot but at least I know my time hasn't been wasted.
It's obvious when you do it because wrecks generally salvage much quicker.
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