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Arkios Odymei
Incarnation of Evil
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Posted - 2009.07.12 04:57:00 -
[271]
Ya ------------------------------------------------------------------
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Wang Jing
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Posted - 2009.07.12 10:32:00 -
[272]
Foolish Bob you sexually assaulted my Jaguar a few weeks ago in 0.0 :(
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Tray LiSans
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Posted - 2009.07.13 07:38:00 -
[273]
Will definitely support.
If nothing else the complete lack of any other assault frigates in almost any fleet I encounter, friendly or hostile, gives a strong hint that something is wrong.
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McEivalley
Fallen Angel's Blade.
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Posted - 2009.07.13 15:43:00 -
[274]
I want my rail-sniper-harpy to be able to alpha pods or at least get the top damage on them.
Insert clever remark where? |
Tortugan
F9X
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Posted - 2009.07.14 07:02:00 -
[275]
Originally by: Tray LiSans Will definitely support.
If nothing else the complete lack of any other assault frigates in almost any fleet I encounter, friendly or hostile, gives a strong hint that something is wrong.
http://bydi.griefwatch.net/?p=engagement&kill=28993
AF gangs can tear through anything and are too small to hit. Try running one some time- if you know what you're doing, you'll be amazed what you can do. (Note- the BS showing up on our side of that engagement was hostile-- he'd been shooting at his buddy at some point).
The reason you never see AFs in 'fleets' if because most 'fleets' are primarily BS based, and the anti-BS T2 Frigate is the Stealthbomber- which have quickly become popular since the changes made.
AFs have another role- small gang guerrilla warfare like you see in that link. The reason your Hawk doesn't put out more DPS is because it tanks like a mofo- sure, a Manticore puts out more DPS on paper- but good luck tanking more than 2 hits from just about anything.
----
Need Mercenaries? Contact me in-game to hire Internal Anarchy. Killboard |
Glafri
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Posted - 2009.07.14 13:26:00 -
[276]
I like it!
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Vuoto
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Posted - 2009.07.15 12:03:00 -
[277]
RETRIBUTION: 5% to afterburner speed or 5% to smartbomb damage VENEGANCE: 5% to ECM strength
ISKHUR: 5% to drone range control or 5% to webifier strength ENYO: 5% to afterburner speed
JAGUAR: 5% warp jamming range WOLF: 5% tracking speed
HAWK: 5% to tracking disruptor HARPY: 5% to tracking speed
i think those bonuses are good for all: retribution in lack of medium slots needs a bonus for defence like more speed or an anti-drone system upgrade like smartbomb. the venegance using caldari tech in collaboration with khanid forged a nice ECM sistem the iskhur ( have the drone power of a CRUISER!!!!) shouldn't be overpowered with a drone damage bonus so a range control is really fine the Enyo is the good version of the retribution ( with a drone ) and a focus the bonus on afterburner is fine the jaguar using gallente tech help should mount an improved warp jamming bonus the wolf a really nice AF need just a tracking speed bonus the hawk in collaboration with amarr can use a tracking disruptor to deal with all the enemies turrets finally the harpy needs only the tracking speed bonus.
or just give a role bonus to all the AF... like 10% to afterburner speed... but this is just a dream. AFs should move in battles to kill interceptors drones and other frigates bewaring of destroyers and interdictors without caring about bigger ships... doing that the tactics of battles will change drammatically in better giving a sense to AFs and to destroyers... and if you want another tip destroyers class need another another model like an assault destroyer or you can call it "hunter".
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Tray LiSans
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Posted - 2009.07.16 01:02:00 -
[278]
Harpy doesn't need any sort of tracking bonuses, I hit interceptors just fine with blasters and even rails. I wouldn't mind seeing seeing some of the other proposed HAC bonuses transfering down. A resist bonus on my blarpy would certainly boost my confidence in survival.
What I would really agree with is a role bonus for something like 5% bonus to afterburner speed or something per level. Assault ships are one of the only cases were afterburners make sense to use, and a 200-300m/s boost to assault ship speed with AB would be helpful without being over the top.
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Flaming Butterfly
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Posted - 2009.07.16 06:21:00 -
[279]
Edited by: Flaming Butterfly on 16/07/2009 06:26:53 Just what is wrong with the AF frig bonus being what the T1 ship had or it slightly modified to suit the ship's role?
Minmatar AF Rifter: 5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret damage and 7.5% bonus to tracking per level. Wolf: 10% Falloff + 5% damage ===== Jag: 10% Optimal + 5% damage
Gallente AF Incursus: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret falloff and 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage per skill level. Enyo: Optimal + tracking ===== (Modified) Imicus bonuses: 5% bonus to drone range and 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage per skill level Ishkur: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret optimal range and +5 Drone Bay capacity per level
Caldari AF Merlin: 5% shield HP amount and 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret optimal range per skill level. Harpy: 10% optimal range + 5% small hybrid turret damage ===== (Modified) Merlin: 6.5% shield boost amount and 10% missile velocity per skill level Hawk: 5% kinetic damage + 5% small hybrid turret damage (5 high; 3 turret/3 launcher reconfig)
Amarr AF (Modified) Punisher: 10% bonus to Small Energy Turret capacitor use and 5% bonus to armor amount per skill level. Retribution: 10% optimal range + 5% small energy turret damage per level ===== (Modified) Tormentor Bonus: 10% bonus to EM rocket and damage and 5% bonus to Explosive, Kinetic and Thermal rocket damage per skill level. 5% bonus to rocket ROF. Vengeance: 10% bonus to rocket velocity + 5% bonus to cap recharge rate.
Retributionabsolutely needs a second mid even if it's pulled out of the low slots. The ship has to be able to tackle in some capacity. The added armor amount bonus more than makes up for lost low-slow so it can scram/warp-dis. The Vengeance at least should have more damage with em rockets ffs. === Vuoto's ideas aren't that great and mix up racial and chassis specialities: ECM is Caldari, not Amarr. Use a Kitsune if you want boosted ecm on a T2 ship. Web Str... this should be Minmatar for Hyena, Huginn, Rapier Warp Jam Range... Keres Tracking Disruptor on Hawk? overpower much? Also, TD is amarrian.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.07.17 00:29:00 -
[280]
There's a lot of very silly suggestions in this thread.
Originally by: Vuoto
HAWK: 5% to tracking disruptor
Originally by: Flaming Butterfly
Hawk: 5% kinetic damage + 5% small hybrid turret damage (5 high; 3 turret/3 launcher reconfig)
Why do you hate my poor little hawk so much that you want to give it a split weapons system?
Originally by: Various People
ROF bonus to keep it in line with the cerberus
This would only work if you increased the clip size of rocket launchers, you often find yourself reloading mid fight as it is.
The hawk's problem is DPS and slot layout - 5% missile damage would keep it in line with the kestrel but more importantly it's a bonus that the ship desperately needs and won't make it overpowered.
4 mids for an active shield tank is pretty laughable too, I've seen many medium shield extender hawk fits and it should ring alarm bells that in thread after thread PVPers post fits that recommend you ignore the active tank bonus.
Swapping a low to a mid would cure the problem. If the slot layout can't be changed then move the boost bonus to a 5% resist bonus, drop the shield recharge rate slightly and adjust the CPU / PG so that it can take a passive tank.
I've been posting in hawk threads for nearly 3 years now during which time i've changed career, bought my first flat and acquired my first grey hairs yet the same problems with the hawk get discussed time and time again without any action from CCP.....no wait......I forgot.....they gave it spinny bits and borked rockets.
Please CCP fix the hawk otherwise many years from now i'll end up as a senile old man in a care home confusing the nurses by asking for one more mid slot to fit a web. _________________________________________________ Lifeboat ----> + Human |
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Trinity Nova
Amarr Unaccompanied Souls
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Posted - 2009.07.18 12:23:00 -
[281]
Halfway down on the 2ND page is unacceptable.
CCP let's fix this.
Winter release isn't asking to much.
Solo Corp: Unaccompanied Souls |
Foolish Bob
Caldari FireTech In Tea We Trust
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Posted - 2009.07.18 23:24:00 -
[282]
Originally by: Wang Jing Foolish Bob you sexually assaulted my Jaguar a few weeks ago in 0.0 :(
when and where? We sexually assault a lot of people and not always when we mean to - it all starts to blur after a while =P
also seconding the awesome-ness of AF gangs, but just coz they rock doesn't mean that they're perfect, or that they can't be improved without attracting the nerf-bat - which as Wang will attest is my primary fear in this endeavour. I think it's totally possible, hence my support. ----------- I am me. I am not the corp I've joined nor the alliance I fly in.
I'm also not a unique and special snowflake.
Everything I say should be taken in that context. |
Wang Jing
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Posted - 2009.07.19 07:10:00 -
[283]
Originally by: Foolish Bob
when and where? We sexually assault a lot of people and not always when we mean to - it all starts to blur after a while =P
also seconding the awesome-ness of AF gangs, but just coz they rock doesn't mean that they're perfect, or that they can't be improved without attracting the nerf-bat - which as Wang will attest is my primary fear in this endeavour. I think it's totally possible, hence my support.
About a month ago in M-MD31. Was on my main mind you I was coming back from a pro solo roam (read: getting lost and running around terrified).
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Rissa T
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.20 02:14:00 -
[284]
Winter release!
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Trinity Nova
Amarr Unaccompanied Souls
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Posted - 2009.07.21 01:26:00 -
[285]
Back to the top. PvP starter toon for sale
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1109164Solo Corp: Unaccomp |
Maximus Trollus
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Posted - 2009.07.23 07:24:00 -
[286]
yes !
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Hooch Flux
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Posted - 2009.07.23 08:31:00 -
[287]
Originally by: yani dumyat There's a lot of very silly suggestions in this thread.
Originally by: Vuoto
HAWK: 5% to tracking disruptor
Originally by: Flaming Butterfly
Hawk: 5% kinetic damage + 5% small hybrid turret damage (5 high; 3 turret/3 launcher reconfig)
Why do you hate my poor little hawk so much that you want to give it a split weapons system?
Originally by: Various People
ROF bonus to keep it in line with the cerberus
This would only work if you increased the clip size of rocket launchers, you often find yourself reloading mid fight as it is.
The hawk's problem is DPS and slot layout - 5% missile damage would keep it in line with the kestrel but more importantly it's a bonus that the ship desperately needs and won't make it overpowered.
4 mids for an active shield tank is pretty laughable too, I've seen many medium shield extender hawk fits and it should ring alarm bells that in thread after thread PVPers post fits that recommend you ignore the active tank bonus.
Swapping a low to a mid would cure the problem. If the slot layout can't be changed then move the boost bonus to a 5% resist bonus, drop the shield recharge rate slightly and adjust the CPU / PG so that it can take a passive tank.
I've been posting in hawk threads for nearly 3 years now during which time i've changed career, bought my first flat and acquired my first grey hairs yet the same problems with the hawk get discussed time and time again without any action from CCP.....no wait......I forgot.....they gave it spinny bits and borked rockets.
Please CCP fix the hawk otherwise many years from now i'll end up as a senile old man in a care home confusing the nurses by asking for one more mid slot to fit a web.
All the Hawk really needs is a ROF bonus...
I actually agree with the clip size issue but I think that should be left alone for balance. With 4 T2 Standard missile launchers a T2 BCU you can melt most T1 Frigs and Destroyers without having to reload.
Why anyone would want to split weapons or give a bonus to TD makes no sense to me!
I say prep for dustoff, nuke the site from orbit...
Only way to be sure! |
yani dumyat
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.07.23 15:43:00 -
[288]
Originally by: Hooch Flux
(Edit: I use as a long/med range damage while someone tackles.)
Thank you for demonstrating my point so well.
An AF that requires someone else to tackle for it and does 126dps even with max skills, 2 bcu's and a 75mm rail in the utility slot...oh wait...you can't fit all that so you'll be down to about 100dps but only when the railgun gets into range. I can do similar dps in a crow and be considerably more useful to my gang.
As someone who uses the light missile setup what do you do with the last high slot and how the hell do you cram a MWD and active tank on there?
Arguably 88 missile dps is ok given that it hits out to 60km with CN bloodclaw and rockets are a whole separate quagmire so if we ignore the dps and say that the hawk is meant to be a nuggets tough active tank to tackle with...the fitting process goes something like this:
MWD...check Scram...check damage control....check EM resist rigs....check Small shield Booster....check hmm, cap only lasts 35 seconds Nos....check hmm, up to 55 seconds cap so at most 30 seconds of cap to shield boost with after burning the mwd to get into range. Small cap booster....check
So that's all four mids gone and we've got 6,292 ehp with a sustained defense of 81, surely this is better than the faster, gankier jaguar?
Nope.
My dual MSE jag with scram and mwd has 10,853ehp so it would take the hawk 56.3 seconds to make up the ehp difference and way longer if we factor in the 52 sustained defense of the jag, certainly more time than it would take the jag to kill the hawk.
Then there's the ishkur with 73 sustained defense and 235 dps. The hawk can offer gallente pilots 8 more sustained dps if they're willing to live with less than half the dps
If we now bring rockets into the equation i need a web on my hawk too so there goes the cap booster and you can forget about ever pulsing your mwd during a fight or getting into tackle range of a neut cruiser or generally being useful in any way.
Please move one slot to a mid and fix rockets. The hawk will still be sub par but would at least be useable. |
Hooch Flux
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.07.23 16:19:00 -
[289]
Originally by: yani dumyat
Originally by: Hooch Flux
(Edit: I use as a long/med range damage while someone tackles.)
Thank you for demonstrating my point so well.
An AF that requires someone else to tackle for it and does 126dps even with max skills, 2 bcu's and a 75mm rail in the utility slot...oh wait...you can't fit all that so you'll be down to about 100dps but only when the railgun gets into range. I can do similar dps in a crow and be considerably more useful to my gang.
As someone who uses the light missile setup what do you do with the last high slot and how the hell do you cram a MWD and active tank on there?
Arguably 88 missile dps is ok given that it hits out to 60km with CN bloodclaw and rockets are a whole separate quagmire so if we ignore the dps and say that the hawk is meant to be a nuggets tough active tank to tackle with...the fitting process goes something like this:
MWD...check Scram...check damage control....check EM resist rigs....check Small shield Booster....check hmm, cap only lasts 35 seconds Nos....check hmm, up to 55 seconds cap so at most 30 seconds of cap to shield boost with after burning the mwd to get into range. Small cap booster....check
So that's all four mids gone and we've got 6,292 ehp with a sustained defense of 81, surely this is better than the faster, gankier jaguar?
Nope.
My dual MSE jag with scram and mwd has 10,853ehp so it would take the hawk 56.3 seconds to make up the ehp difference and way longer if we factor in the 52 sustained defense of the jag, certainly more time than it would take the jag to kill the hawk.
Then there's the ishkur with 73 sustained defense and 235 dps. The hawk can offer gallente pilots 8 more sustained dps if they're willing to live with less than half the dps
If we now bring rockets into the equation i need a web on my hawk too so there goes the cap booster and you can forget about ever pulsing your mwd during a fight or getting into tackle range of a neut cruiser or generally being useful in any way.
Please move one slot to a mid and fix rockets. The hawk will still be sub par but would at least be useable.
We're using two completly diferent fitting philosophies for the same ship, you seem to be going for a close in heavy tackler while I am just sitting at range and using volley damage. I fit a AB to mine and run it in a small gang. Just seemed to be the way it was disigned to me, to do what your doing I would just fly a Jag or a Wolf.
I'll try your fitting later and see how it goes. |
yani dumyat
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.07.23 21:54:00 -
[290]
Myself and everyone else who has asked for changes to the hawk are idiots because we missed something that should be blindingly obvious - THE HAWK IS MISSING A SLOT
Vengance (4 Highs) 43PG / 160cpu (tackle) Retribution (5 highs) 56PG / 125CPU (DPS)
Ishkur (4 highs) 42PG / 155CPU (tackle + DPS) Enyo (5 highs) 50PG / 145CPU (DPS)
Jaguar (4 highs) 43PG / 160CPU (tackle) Wolf (5 highs) 48PG / 125CPU (DPS)
Hawk (5 highs) 42PG / 180CPU (tackle) Harpy (5 highs) 50PG / 175CPU (DPS)
All the tackle AF's have 4 high slots with 3 primary weapon hardpoints and a utility high except for the two rocket ships - hawk and vengeance. I assume this is because rockets do so little DPS that you need 4 of them to get anywhere close to the DPS of 3 close range turrets.
The result is that the hawk has one less mid / low slot than the other tackle AF's because it's been moved to a high slot but the extra high is only compensating for low rocket DPS.
The vengeance has been robbed of a bonus instead of a mid slot. It is the only tackle AF with 4 hardpoints for its primary weapons system and therefore has no utility high, this has been compensated for by giving it a cap bonus equivalent to running a nos.
Here's a crazy idea - If rocket ships need 4 launchers to do the same job as 3 turrets then give them an extra slot. |
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yani dumyat
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.07.23 22:18:00 -
[291]
Originally by: Hooch Flux
I'll try your fitting later and see how it goes
I'll warn you now that my rocket fitting sucks which is kinda the point i'm trying to make |
Sexual Healing
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.07.25 02:02:00 -
[292]
winter
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Daquaris
Dreams of Desolation Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.07.25 13:46:00 -
[293]
Yep.
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Grawen
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Posted - 2009.07.25 14:34:00 -
[294]
+1
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Moloch Baal
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.07.27 11:05:00 -
[295]
bringing this thread back where it belongs
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Demus Spark
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Posted - 2009.07.28 02:24:00 -
[296]
Supported!
AFs definitely deserve 4th bonuses! There's hardly any reason why they should not have it. Some of the ships' bonuses need careful thinking though, one example being the Harpy. If you boost it's sniping prowess with damage bonus, it will start to seriously melt faces with blasters. Tracking bonus will also make it an Enyo with bigger buffer, shield regen and faster speed (should the Enyo sport 400mm and even with 200mm Harpy seems to have 1m/s faster speed with AB!). Oh and it will also have a longer optimal range, meaning that with careful piloting you can keep the hit quality bonus of optimal range while Enyo will drop to falloff.
I like many of the ideas posted here except things that force the ships to specialize a lot, like bonuses to scrambler&disruptor range for the Jaguar (I want to keep my ACs!)
In case you are not very interested about the Jaguar/Minmatar in general or the Enyo, Im afraid there's nothing else here for you to read. Others, please continue
As a Jaguar pilot, Id definitely want to see a tracking bonus. Even though, as I use 125mm, my tracking tends to be pretty much just what's needed. When using orbit 500m with AB, the range tends to be around 1600-2000 meters and transversal around 0.4 and the 125mm's tracking is almost 0.5. But it would still help when dealing with the drone cruisers, making them atleast a little bit easier to tackle for a while untill help arrives.
Enyo definitely needs something too to make it something else than an assault ship for drone-challenged gallente pilots. Do take into account though that the Enyo's optimal+falloff is about the same as the Jaguar's currently (both almost reaching to overloaded scrambler's range). What this means is that, should the falloff bonus be added, Enyo would become a... hmm, a 'rather hard' opponent for the Jaguar.
As a user of active+magic tanked Jaguar I feel that there might still be a chance to beat the Enyo though, but Im afraid almost everyone uses the 2xMSE setup . Jaguar can still outrun an afterburner Enyo though and MWD+Disruptor setup is quite hard to support with already heavily cap-dependant ship. (Not that I have any field experience with Enyo, other than a few fights against it).
And please, PLEASE swap the bonuses between Wolf and Jaguar, or atleast give The Jag falloff and let the Wolf keep falloff bonus as well (sorry arty users, but I have my reasons that Ill state next).
As the Thrasher's already an insanely effective small arty platfrom and optimal bonus is totally worthless with ACs on the Jaguar, there arent too many reasons for the optimal bonus on the jag in the first place. Sure it can tank better than a destroyer with smaller sig radius against people shooting with bigger guns from far away. Sure, it's faster (while still less agile!) than the thrasher. But what happens when you are caught by a fast close range tackler? You have a very expensive (for a frig) ship that deals a fraction of the destroyer's damage while tanking only a little bit better than said destroyer. What this means is that the arty Jaguar is worse in just about everything except tanking sniper battleships and such. On top of that you have the lovely price difference that a thrasher and a jaguar have .
Currently it really feels like the Jaguar is a t2 ship with only 2 bonuses which is ridiculous.
Sorry about the long post (Im very enthusiastic about The Jag )I hope atleast some of you had the endurance to read the whole wall of text. |
Wang Jing
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Posted - 2009.07.28 20:53:00 -
[297]
Long posts are very much appreciated, if people can't take 2 minutes to read someone elses thoughts they shouldn't be on (a more serious part of) the forums
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Kailen Thorn
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.28 21:33:00 -
[298]
supported
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N Solarz
Chaos Reborn
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Posted - 2009.07.30 05:33:00 -
[299]
supported
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.30 12:27:00 -
[300]
Fix rockets: Hawk and Vengance will be better. (aslo lol active tank rep bonus on a frig)
As for more bonuses for my already awesome Harpy? Sure why not, might as well use it to blow **** up faster :) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
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