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Omg Corn
Gallente Zorp Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.23 09:37:00 -
[1]
1. Lolwut? This is a 300 million isk venture that will pay out in 1 week. Profits will come from t1 manufacturing. The entire IPO will be repaid 1 week from the starting date, plus a 5% dividend. The entire value including dividends is secured by DBANK.
2. But why? There are several reasons why this venture is so small and short. a. No one here knows who I am. No one here has any reason to trust me. That is why I am depositing and locking the entire value of 300 million plus 15 million in dividends in DBANK. b. This is my first time dealing with other people's money, so I am starting small to test the waters. c. Since this is such a small amount of capital, and I am in effect providing it myself, I want the venture to be short so that I can get into the deep end of the pool quicker. d. Hopefully the low minimum will encourage some newer players who want to try investing to give it a shot.
3. The details The minimum investment is 1 million and the max is 50 million. Start date: 04/27/09 - Monday April 27th End date: 05/04/09 - Monday May 4th The money must be transferred by DT on Monday. 1% reduction of dividends per day if late. Return: 105% of the original investment will be repaid before DT on Tuesday. 1% increase of dividends per day if late. Since the entire value of this IPO is secured, I will not provide any further details on my business plan.
4. Experience I've been manufacturing stuff at a profit since I started playing eve. I've been trading for the past 3 months for a very nice profit. I ran a couple of mock IPO's before this, where I set aside several hundred million for a week to see what I could do with it.
5. Risks The entire value of the IPO has already been paid to and locked by DBANK. Even if I lose 100% of the investment, your money will be safe. The only risk is the total collapse of DBANK.
A DBANK representative should be posting in this thread to confirm that they have the collateral.
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Omg Corn
Gallente Zorp Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.23 09:38:00 -
[2]
Reserved.
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Bad Bobby
Ugly Toys Zzz
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Posted - 2009.04.23 13:31:00 -
[3]
If your intention is to build up a personal reputation for being trustworthy when it comes to other people's money then why involve DBANK? Ultimately the only party whose reputation gains from this, provided all goes well, is DBANK. You would not have been trusted with anything and your investors would have taken no risks. No trust would have been tested and therefore no pattern of trustworthyness can be established.
Take DBANK out of the deal such that you are actually being trusted with the isk and you might gain some reputation, albeit a very slight improvement given the tiny amount entrusted to you, but as it stands I can see no legitimate justification for this venture at all.
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Sir Elliot
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Posted - 2009.04.23 13:41:00 -
[4]
Reserving 50m once dbank confirms.
I think he is doing it the right way, b/c he has 0 history. After doing this he has enough of a history to do, say, an 80% secured project.
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Ji Sama
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Posted - 2009.04.23 13:48:00 -
[5]
reserve 50 million pending confirmation from DBANK This is a signature not related to EVE |
Prisoner 42
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Posted - 2009.04.23 13:52:00 -
[6]
Reserve 50mil pending confimation
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Omg Corn
Gallente Zorp Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.23 13:59:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Bad Bobby If your intention is to build up a personal reputation for being trustworthy when it comes to other people's money then why involve DBANK? Ultimately the only party whose reputation gains from this, provided all goes well, is DBANK. You would not have been trusted with anything and your investors would have taken no risks. No trust would have been tested and therefore no pattern of trustworthyness can be established.
Take DBANK out of the deal such that you are actually being trusted with the isk and you might gain some reputation, albeit a very slight improvement given the tiny amount entrusted to you, but as it stands I can see no legitimate justification for this venture at all.
I am on the lowest rung, so I thought I might as well start with the safest investment. This still gets my name out there, and I also don't have to explain my business plan with as much detail.
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SencneS
Amarr Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2009.04.23 14:07:00 -
[8]
DBANK rep going to step on this thread and confirm this is actually secured or are we just going to take your word for it?
Amarr for Life |
Omg Corn
Gallente Zorp Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.23 14:10:00 -
[9]
A representative should post in this thread to confirm.
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Bad Bobby
Ugly Toys Zzz
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Posted - 2009.04.23 14:51:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Omg Corn
Originally by: Bad Bobby If your intention is to build up a personal reputation for being trustworthy when it comes to other people's money then why involve DBANK? Ultimately the only party whose reputation gains from this, provided all goes well, is DBANK. You would not have been trusted with anything and your investors would have taken no risks. No trust would have been tested and therefore no pattern of trustworthyness can be established.
Take DBANK out of the deal such that you are actually being trusted with the isk and you might gain some reputation, albeit a very slight improvement given the tiny amount entrusted to you, but as it stands I can see no legitimate justification for this venture at all.
I am on the lowest rung, so I thought I might as well start with the safest investment. This still gets my name out there, and I also don't have to explain my business plan with as much detail.
I can understand your intention and I don't disagree with what you are trying to do, but I feel you are being too hard on yourself and will be doing more work for less gain this way.
From an investor's point of view this is a bond with DBANK, not with you. That's great for us, but what do you really get from it?
Granted many MD folks are less demanding than I am, particularly the small-timers that you are pitching too here, but this will not get you any closer to capturing the big money investors.
My advice is ditch DBANK and let this venture stand or fall on your own ability.
Oh and I'll reserve the maximum amount. Good luck with your venture.
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Keyser Kahn
Stellar-Parallax Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.23 14:55:00 -
[11]
Ifyou need it I'll take 50m (I will not require it to be secured by DBANK) - but only if you do not reach the 300m with other investors or if you request it.
I agree completely with other posters in that this will in no way give any indication of trustworthyness and reputation for further activities.
OP indicates you are going to follow this initial round of investment with a call for greater funds presumably not secured so please don't be surprised if this initial venture falls far short of proving much.
If your plans are to build on this start - you would be much better off organising an audit to cover a period of succesful manufacture and look to maybe secure half of the investment amount you seek. Then post the details by following the established routines for questions, critiques and advice.
BTW - only my opinion good luck regardless.
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Tess
Gallente Twilight Labs
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Posted - 2009.04.23 15:01:00 -
[12]
Reserve 50mil pending confirmation from DBANK.
Quafe anyone? |
Viktor Raybach
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Posted - 2009.04.23 15:06:00 -
[13]
Reserve 50 million pending confirmation from Dbank
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Omg Corn
Gallente Zorp Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.23 15:26:00 -
[14]
Quote: but I feel you are being too hard on yourself and will be doing more work for less gain this way.
There is little extra work involved for me, so I think the potential reward is worth it. If someone invests in my next, less secure venture because of this that wouldn't have otherwise, that's great, but if not, that's ok too.
All of the bonds have been reserved, now just waiting for confirmation from DBANK. The person that I was in contact with tends to be on later in the day.
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Bad Bobby
Ugly Toys Zzz
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Posted - 2009.04.23 15:44:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Keyser Kahn I agree completely with other posters in that this will in no way give any indication of trustworthyness and reputation for further activities.
From my perspective, it achieves the reverse of the intended aim.
Either the OP is an intelligent scammer with a good approach to preparing the ground or he is a flawed businessman that for whatever reason has taken a somewhat wimpish approach to his first pitch.
A bit of a paradox, but the only way this makes good business sense is if it is a prelude to a scam. My appraisal of his intelligence based on the little information we have so far is that he is smart enough to understand this.
So the result? I'll invest in this one but I wouldn't touch further ventures with a sixty foot pole.
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Lecherito
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Posted - 2009.04.23 15:44:00 -
[16]
"If your intention is to build up a personal reputation for being trustworthy when it comes to other people's money then why involve DBANK? Ultimately the only party whose reputation gains from this, provided all goes well, is DBANK. You would not have been trusted with anything and your investors would have taken no risks. No trust would have been tested and therefore no pattern of trustworthyness can be established."
I swear, people on the market are just tools. Utter tools. Here is a guy who is taking a stab at getting into the market. Like me, I'm sure he's head post after post of the vultures inhabiting this forum, getting off on the practice of the cruel dismantling of market efforts of others. To avoid the unnecessary but compulsory "why we have billions and you do not" threads, he has shown initiative by providing 100% collateral for his proposal. Yet still, the vultures flock.
He has gone above and beyond what the average individual. This is *not* an investment with Dbank, but with him. Dbank is acting as the collateral should something happen. The next logical step would be to provide collateral with an unofficial yet trusted member of the community, culminating in the garnering of enough trust to act independently of user discretion. If you cannot see that, then congratulations, you are a better seller of plexes than most.
-L
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Ji Sama
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Posted - 2009.04.23 15:50:00 -
[17]
i think flawed bobby.. and i recent beeing called a small fish! This is a signature not related to EVE |
Bad Bobby
Ugly Toys Zzz
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Posted - 2009.04.23 15:56:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Omg Corn
Quote: but I feel you are being too hard on yourself and will be doing more work for less gain this way.
There is little extra work involved for me, so I think the potential reward is worth it. If someone invests in my next, less secure venture because of this that wouldn't have otherwise, that's great, but if not, that's ok too.
All of the bonds have been reserved, now just waiting for confirmation from DBANK. The person that I was in contact with tends to be on later in the day.
I have no doubt that you'll do fine out of this and it will indeed help you with your next venture even though it should not.
I mean you no ill and if your aims are legitimate then I hope you take my paranoid speculation with good humour! Also, if you are a scammer then well done, you've done an excellent job thus far!
I have every confidence that this venture will end well.
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Ji Sama
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Posted - 2009.04.23 16:06:00 -
[19]
idd there is no risk in this one, but there will be in the next one.. and just because i want to throw 50M here doesnt mean that ill invest next time.. This is a signature not related to EVE |
Bad Bobby
Ugly Toys Zzz
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Posted - 2009.04.23 16:09:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Lecherito To avoid the unnecessary but compulsory "why we have billions and you do not" threads, he has shown initiative by providing 100% collateral for his proposal. Yet still, the vultures flock.
The key point being: To avoid the compulsory MD critique. That is not an intent to be praised or tolerated.
Taking the initiative in organising 100% collateral is praiseworthy and has helped him a great deal in securing the funds he is after. But it will not help his reputation in the eyes of anyone but the foolish.
Also, how is it that you cannot see that I am trying to help the OP?
Originally by: Lecherito He has gone above and beyond what the average individual. This is *not* an investment with Dbank, but with him. Dbank is acting as the collateral should something happen. The next logical step would be to provide collateral with an unofficial yet trusted member of the community, culminating in the garnering of enough trust to act independently of user discretion. If you cannot see that, then congratulations, you are a better seller of plexes than most.
That shows a marked lack of insight on your part. I'm not going to be drawn into an argument about it because there is no benefit for me, it would be an argument too easily won.
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Omg Corn
Gallente Zorp Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.23 16:21:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Omg Corn on 23/04/2009 16:23:21 Edited by: Omg Corn on 23/04/2009 16:22:07
Quote: Either the OP is an intelligent scammer with a good approach to preparing the ground or he is a flawed businessman that for whatever reason has taken a somewhat wimpish approach to his first pitch.
Well then I suppose I should make this into a scam to save face :D I agree that this could scare off some potential investors, but this is a no-win situation, any approach taken will have positives and negatives. Some might be reassured by one thing while in others the same thing will raise warning flags. Familiarity does breed trust though. I think I've had one or two posts before on the forums, so at any rate just posting will help me.
Quote: Like me, I'm sure he's head post after post of the vultures inhabiting this forum, getting off on the practice of the cruel dismantling of market efforts of others.
Pretty much (though I wouldn't put it in those words) - I decided start out with the safest possible investment. Also consider that DBANK will be paying me interest on my collateral, so I am not completely wasting my time by trying to raise money that I will have to secure with an equal amount of my own money.
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Estel Arador
Minmatar Estel Arador Corp Services
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Posted - 2009.04.23 16:30:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Omg Corn Since the entire value of this IPO is secured, I will not provide any further details on my business plan.
I would say that not providing details is contrary to your stated goal of gaining reputation. At the very least you should have an audit done after the investment has been repaid to confirm that you actually raised the money using the investment (as opposed to just running a ponzi scheme).
FREE! jumpclone service - over 200 locations! |
Omg Corn
Gallente Zorp Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.23 16:32:00 -
[23]
I agree that running an audit afterward is a good idea.
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Tess
Gallente Twilight Labs
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Posted - 2009.04.23 16:40:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Tess on 23/04/2009 16:42:09 Edited by: Tess on 23/04/2009 16:40:37
Originally by: Omg Corn At the very least you should have an audit done after the investment has been repaid to confirm that you actually raised the money using the investment (as opposed to just running a ponzi scheme).
Agreed. Even if this is not a setup for a scam in the future, how would we know you actually raised the funds by means of whatever means you plan on doing so in private?
You could fail at your venture and simply pay out the initial investment plus a 5% return and we would never know it. I'd like to know that you were successful at what you were doing for future investments.
If I were you, I'd open up a bit about the nature of your business and welcome an audit. Either way, as long as DBANK confirms, you'll get my investment on this deal.
Good Luck to you Sir.
Quafe anyone? |
Bad Bobby
Ugly Toys Zzz
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Posted - 2009.04.23 17:03:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Omg Corn I agree that running an audit afterward is a good idea.
Indeed, an audit of this operation is the one truely valuable thing you can get out of this. Because it actually proves that you are capable of doing something beyond writing a good forum post. Really, I feel a good middle ground between your current approach and the bolder approach that I favour would have been to run this business for a set period of time with your own money while being audited continuously. That would have given the same proof of ability with much less complications. As it stands, this all seems a little bit pointless and very weak from a trust building point of view.
Anyway, I have made my opinion on this matter clear and I'll let it rest.
As a gesture of good will, given that I have been accused of being a vulture, I will also offer my services to hold collateral for this venture (if DBANK prove to be tardy) and/or your next offering (when it comes) to demonstrate that I am truely interested in helping new EVE businessmen as well as protecting investors from potential scams.
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Sir Elliot
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Posted - 2009.04.23 17:11:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Omg Corn I agree that running an audit afterward is a good idea.
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Omg Corn
Gallente Zorp Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.23 17:24:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Omg Corn on 23/04/2009 17:24:32
Quote: to run this business for a set period of time with your own money while being audited continuously.
I considered doing this, but decided against it for several reasons. While I have been making my money completely through manufacturing and trading, I didn't want to get an audit because my activities have been spread out amongst several characters on several accounts that do not have anything to do with my business, and are simply extra wallets. This corp that I created will serve as a consolidated place for all my public dealings and will be audited. In addition, purchases that I have made for personal use will not show up (I am not sure how auditors do the totals, but I assume buying things and then not selling them would show up as a loss).
Quote: As a gesture of good will, given that I have been accused of being a vulture, I will also offer my services to hold collateral for this venture (if DBANK prove to be tardy) and/or your next offering (when it comes) to demonstrate that I am truely interested in helping new EVE businessmen as well as protecting investors from potential scams.
To put it on record, I don't think your or anyone's criticisms are negative things. In general, criticism is a great indicator of something new to learn, and in MD specifically criticism helps protect investors.
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Bad Bobby
Ugly Toys Zzz
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Posted - 2009.04.23 17:52:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Omg Corn
Quote: to run this business for a set period of time with your own money while being audited continuously.
I considered doing this, but decided against it for several reasons. While I have been making my money completely through manufacturing and trading, I didn't want to get an audit because my activities have been spread out amongst several characters on several accounts that do not have anything to do with my business, and are simply extra wallets. This corp that I created will serve as a consolidated place for all my public dealings and will be audited. In addition, purchases that I have made for personal use will not show up (I am not sure how auditors do the totals, but I assume buying things and then not selling them would show up as a loss)
That's all pretty sound. You should have included that in your original post.
As it stands I approve of this except for the part where you take money and effectively just put it in DBANK for a week before returning it with a bit on top. I see that as being a redundant component of the venture. If it had been partial security or items in security for an isk loan I would not have been able to fault it, but an isk loan 105% collateralised with isk is just a bit daft. It matters not now and as you have stated...
Originally by: Omg Corn criticism is a great indicator of something new to learn
...so it's all worthwhile in the end.
Now we just have to wait for our DBANK rep so I can send you the isk that you don't actually need!
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Thoraemond
Minmatar Far Ranger
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Posted - 2009.04.23 19:22:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Omg Corn I didn't want to get an audit because my activities have been spread out amongst several characters on several accounts that do not have anything to do with my business, and are simply extra wallets. This corp that I created will serve as a consolidated place for all my public dealings and will be audited.
You may find that an auditor will require API information from more than just your public corporation in order to complete their work. From what you describe here, it sounds like all your accounts will need to be disclosed to your auditor.
Although the corporation can be the public face of your enterprise, your auditor will need a complete picture. In fact, revealing all the details to just the auditor is one of the purposes of using an auditor: you can get a third-party to review your business and back up your claims without revealing the private aspects to the public at large.
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Exec Order
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.04.24 02:36:00 -
[30]
Omg Corn
I am curious with whom on the DBank staff you have made this arrangement, as I do not have a record of it? Please post the staff person's name, and I will check with them for confirmation.
Exec Order Dynasty Banking Director
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