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TuRtLe HeAd
KrayZ Inc Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.25 08:26:00 -
[1]
Im an Old Player... From Way back in 2003.
Today I went to create a new character and found that theres no way of knowing what skills or Attributes I start with.
so how can I Know what Im getting until I get in the game.
Have I Missed something ?
In the old days each path told you the skills it came with and the attribute bonus as that it gave.... I can't see this any where.. Can any one please help me. |
Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.04.25 08:28:00 -
[2]
You start out with something like 100 SP now, but until you hit something like 1.8M sp you train 100% faster
Pomp FTW!!! |
TuRtLe HeAd
KrayZ Inc Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.25 09:29:00 -
[3]
But what skills do i start out with. The old paths gave you different levels of skills.
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Tranka Verrane
Public Venture Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.04.25 10:39:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Intense Thinker You start out with something like 100 SP now, but until you hit something like 1.8M sp you train 100% faster
That's 500 SP and 1.6mill SP. And the skills given out as basic are roughly the same for all races and bloodlines, just with a racial bent, (i.e. Caldari frig instead of Gallente, etc.). What they get thereafter depends on your choices in the game proper now.
For more, read: http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=618
Basically it no longer matters what you pick when you start a character, as they all have the same chance to get the same skillset.
Ingame: Channels&Mailing lists>Channels>Join>PVE>OK |
Chraiz
Gallente University of Caille
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Posted - 2009.04.25 15:33:00 -
[5]
Also you're starting attributes are the same regardless of race/bloodline but you get two free remaps on a new character + 1 more every 12 months so you can max out the atrributes you find most useful and nerf the rest.
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K'Daai
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.04.25 16:24:00 -
[6]
All races/bloodlines now start with 8 in all atributes except charisma which is at 7 and about the same basic skills that amount to about 50k SP or around that, nothing past level 1 as i recall(maybe something at 2).
You also get a 100% training speed bonus until you reach 1.6mil SP.
You get proffesion related skills by doing tutorial missions from specific agents which the game directs you too (3 types, soldier-ish, miner and trader/hauler). This gives you the books for the basic skills needed in that line and ships to do it with (frigate class up to the level 4 frigate of each race and an industrial lvl 1 ship of each race).
I recommend doing all 3 of them as they give necessary skills and buying them is redundant if you get them for free.
Each of them directs you towards the epic mission arc when you finish their set of missions. I would recommend waiting a bit before you venture out to do it though, its about lvl 1 missions difficulty at start but after half of it or so it starts to get a bit harder, more toward lvl 2 missions in difficulty.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.04.25 22:44:00 -
[7]
Yeah. All that happened last month with the Apochrypha expansion. Before that it was just like you remember.
If you can stick it out ... which a real new person with no other characters is going to find somewhat difficult ... the double speed training makes it really quick to get all your learning skills done to 4/5. Of course ... if they don't have a rich uncle ... a new player with no friends is also going to have trouble paying for all those learning skills.
But - for those of us who already have characters and money - training a new character just got a lot easier ... as long as you don't need them to do anything other than train learning skills for about a month ...
The impression I have - is that you get 2 remaps - total. I could be wrong about that but that's what it looks like to me.
But - once you've done one of them - you don't get another for a YEAR - so - things haven't changed all that much in that respect. It's not like you can slant all your attributes towards one thing and then shift them back to do another. Well ... you can ... you just can't shift them back for a YEAR.
Starting with Charisma 7, you don't seem to be able to take it below 5. There's a little green block there you would think you could remove but ... I couldn't do it.
Anyway, if you train Empathy and Presence to 5 and 4 you'll only have your Charisma a few points behind the others anyway if you keep them balanced.
Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
Tranka Verrane
Public Venture Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.04.26 00:01:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
The impression I have - is that you get 2 remaps - total. I could be wrong about that but that's what it looks like to me.
Nope, you got that wrong. You get a free remap with a NPE, which means you get to remap, then remap again, then you wait a year, just like the rest of us. The extra one is because they assume you will screw up the first one.
Ingame: Channels&Mailing lists>Channels>Join>PVE>OK |
Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.04.26 04:11:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tranka Verrane
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
The impression I have - is that you get 2 remaps - total. I could be wrong about that but that's what it looks like to me.
Nope, you got that wrong. You get a free remap with a NPE, which means you get to remap, then remap again, then you wait a year, just like the rest of us. The extra one is because they assume you will screw up the first one.
Haven't remapped any of my new characters yet. They start off fairly balanced so there's not much need. With the older characters I've remapped because I had ended up with 24 points in something and wanted to level it out I got a note after the remap saying the next remap would be in a year.
Of course ... even if they had characters that weren't new restricted to two total - by the time you'd waited a year for your second remap they could have changed the rules.
Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
K'Daai
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.04.26 11:55:00 -
[10]
I had no trouble making enough money to buy advanced learning skills before hitting the 1.6mil SP mark. Trained all the learnings to 4/4 in the 100% bonus, so you don't need a rich uncle.
Frankly the way chars start now is better for new players because you had no idea what the hell skills you had before or what the heck each attribute was for anyway.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.04.27 10:12:00 -
[11]
Originally by: K'Daai I had no trouble making enough money to buy advanced learning skills before hitting the 1.6mil SP mark. Trained all the learnings to 4/4 in the 100% bonus, so you don't need a rich uncle.
Frankly the way chars start now is better for new players because you had no idea what the hell skills you had before or what the heck each attribute was for anyway.
22.5 Million ISK with nothing but the tools available to a new character? No other player gave you anything? And of course - you did that long before you reached the 1.6 million mark as the bulk of those points are taken up by the rank 3 skills.
How many hours a day did you play and just what was the secret to your success?
I'm sure there are a lot of new players out there who would just love to know exactly how you did that.
Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
Ms Delerium
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Posted - 2009.04.27 12:03:00 -
[12]
23/7 gamer?
Im doing several millions a day with my new 1million SP alt, but thats because I invested a lot on him from my main. Thanks to main, the alt is flying a retriever with T2 crystals and is making his own isk now
btw you can skip the advanced charisma so its 18million SP for books.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.04.27 13:33:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ms Delerium 23/7 gamer?
Im doing several millions a day with my new 1million SP alt, but thats because I invested a lot on him from my main. Thanks to main, the alt is flying a retriever with T2 crystals and is making his own isk now
btw you can skip the advanced charisma so its 18million SP for books.
'
Yeah. When I was starting out and 4.5 was a lot of money I skipped Presence myself, but since the remap, I've been taking all the points I could from Charisma and giving them to other things - but making up for it by training Empathy and Presence. Often I end up with a higher Charisma attribute than I started ...
What I'm doing with my new characters (or at least the plan is) to train all my Social Skills and Leadership up and THEN do the remap. That's one advantage of not needing the characters right away.
Negotiation and Connections can help with your missions while Leadership V is a pre-req for Fighters (!), so there is some use for those Charisma skills. That and with the new Training Queue - it's a lot easier to just blow right through a skill.
Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
K'Daai
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.04.27 14:28:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
Originally by: K'Daai I had no trouble making enough money to buy advanced learning skills before hitting the 1.6mil SP mark. Trained all the learnings to 4/4 in the 100% bonus, so you don't need a rich uncle.
Frankly the way chars start now is better for new players because you had no idea what the hell skills you had before or what the heck each attribute was for anyway.
22.5 Million ISK with nothing but the tools available to a new character? No other player gave you anything? And of course - you did that long before you reached the 1.6 million mark as the bulk of those points are taken up by the rank 3 skills.
How many hours a day did you play and just what was the secret to your success?
I'm sure there are a lot of new players out there who would just love to know exactly how you did that.
I didn't time anything, but not that many hours a day. I made all the money from Salvaging, simple as that. Get that skill and a salvaging module as early as possible and you will have enough money to fund your learning skills and implants early on.
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Billy Sastard
Amarr Life. Universe. Everything.
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Posted - 2009.04.27 15:07:00 -
[15]
Originally by: K'Daai I made all the money from Salvaging, simple as that. Get that skill and a salvaging module as early as possible and you will have enough money to fund your learning skills and implants early on.
This man speaks the truth. Salvaging is one of the more lucrative trades that a new person can get into, and you even get the skillbooks etc free from the newbie industrial career agent.
There are quite a few ways for newbies to make a good amount of ISK early on, salvaging is easily the most accessible and newb friendly. Some other ways can tend to screw up your reputation in EVE forever, but CCP gives us 3 character slots for a reason. <-------------------------------------------------> "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein |
Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.04.27 17:50:00 -
[16]
K'Daai, I think a clarification is needed here so people understand just what kind of salvaging you were doing. If you really did that all by yourself with a new player only salvaging your own kills - well then that's great. But ...
You didn't make that money salvaging YOUR kills - but other peoples missions - right?
Did another player scan down those missions for you?
Were you in a squad with veteran characters?
I don't remember ever having made that kind of money salvaging the kills I made with a new character unaided by other characters in any way - and I have been salvageing my kills for a long time.
Yes - absolutely - Salvaging is one of the first skills I get a new character - unless - I have an older character on another account doing the Salvaging for them (like ... the same rich uncle who gave them all the money for those Learning Skills). I make it a practice when creating a new character to have an older character right there so that I'm salvaging the very first kills that guy ever makes and every single one there after (until he's got salvaging trained himself) - and I've never made that kind of money doing it.
Yes - I can see where if you don't train your rank 1 skills to level 5 (which I wouldn't do with an unaided new character either) that would leave lots of room under the 1.6 mark for training Mechanic, Survey and Salvaging along with some other skills like Faction Frigate III and Destroyers as well as Science IV for the Tractor beams. Of course ... all that equipment adds to the amount of money you'd need to pull this off.
If you didn't do this salvaging other people's missions - or as Billy noted lowering your reputation - all I've got to say is that you must have either played a lot more than I did when I was doing that without help or been a lot luckier than I was ... of course - if you were an Amarr noobie you were getting all those Melted Capacitor Consoles instead of the nearly useless Drone stuff I was as a Gallente.
If a new player can do that unaided - good. For the most part - I've not tried to do that unaided in a long time as having a rich uncle help out is a lot easier. So - I'd be happy to be wrong about whether or not you need one. All the better for any genuinely new people out there who are creating their first character rather than an alt. Maybe those of them who read this thread will have their starting careers a little easier than mine was.
Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
Tara Nighthawk
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.27 18:50:00 -
[17]
I have made a number of characters using the old method, both on paid IDs and on several temporary IDs. I have made one new character since the change and I don't like the new system.
The whole thing of choosing a race and sub-race which either helped or did not help with the skills needed for a certain profession. The question of which race made the best pilot or miner. Lastly, the portraits shown during the process. All of that made the character seem far more real.
Now it is just click this, click this, click that, finish - and you get a character just like any other apart from the appearance. It doesn't make any difference which race you choose, apart from the look of the ships.
I do hope they go back to the old system. The new one takes away so much of the game.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.04.28 02:12:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tara Nighthawk I have made a number of characters using the old method, both on paid IDs and on several temporary IDs. I have made one new character since the change and I don't like the new system.
The whole thing of choosing a race and sub-race which either helped or did not help with the skills needed for a certain profession. The question of which race made the best pilot or miner. Lastly, the portraits shown during the process. All of that made the character seem far more real.
Now it is just click this, click this, click that, finish - and you get a character just like any other apart from the appearance. It doesn't make any difference which race you choose, apart from the look of the ships.
I do hope they go back to the old system. The new one takes away so much of the game.
I wouldn't hold out a lot of hope for that. Once they write the code developers are generally loath to throw it out.
One of the things that bothers me - is that I wrote some bug reports on the fact that while you were supposed to be able to go back and change your characters appearance in the old code once you saw what they were really going to look like in the smaller window used in the game but it didn't actually work. So they finally fixed that - only to completely discard the capability in the new code. I've already had to delete one character because what looked good in character creation looked really bad in the small window.
Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
Praetor Aurelius
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Posted - 2009.04.28 02:53:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Praetor Aurelius on 28/04/2009 02:54:37 Edited by: Praetor Aurelius on 28/04/2009 02:53:15 I agree with your post Tara. As a returning player, I enjoyed the old way of creating players better. It just seemed like you had the ability to customize/personalize more than you can now. And starting off with the learning skills right off the bat was a boon as well. I've read several posts about the change and I still fail to understand why this new system is more of a benefit to starting characters than the old one was. Can anyone explain this to me please? Also, do these remaps allow you to redistribute skill points as well? Or just attributes?
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K'Daai
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.04.28 08:17:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk K'Daai, I think a clarification is needed here so people understand just what kind of salvaging you were doing. If you really did that all by yourself with a new player only salvaging your own kills - well then that's great. But ...
You didn't make that money salvaging YOUR kills - but other peoples missions - right?
Did another player scan down those missions for you?
Were you in a squad with veteran characters?
I don't remember ever having made that kind of money salvaging the kills I made with a new character unaided by other characters in any way - and I have been salvageing my kills for a long time.
Yes - absolutely - Salvaging is one of the first skills I get a new character - unless - I have an older character on another account doing the Salvaging for them (like ... the same rich uncle who gave them all the money for those Learning Skills). I make it a practice when creating a new character to have an older character right there so that I'm salvaging the very first kills that guy ever makes and every single one there after (until he's got salvaging trained himself) - and I've never made that kind of money doing it.
Yes - I can see where if you don't train your rank 1 skills to level 5 (which I wouldn't do with an unaided new character either) that would leave lots of room under the 1.6 mark for training Mechanic, Survey and Salvaging along with some other skills like Faction Frigate III and Destroyers as well as Science IV for the Tractor beams. Of course ... all that equipment adds to the amount of money you'd need to pull this off.
If you didn't do this salvaging other people's missions - or as Billy noted lowering your reputation - all I've got to say is that you must have either played a lot more than I did when I was doing that without help or been a lot luckier than I was ... of course - if you were an Amarr noobie you were getting all those Melted Capacitor Consoles instead of the nearly useless Drone stuff I was as a Gallente.
If a new player can do that unaided - good. For the most part - I've not tried to do that unaided in a long time as having a rich uncle help out is a lot easier. So - I'd be happy to be wrong about whether or not you need one. All the better for any genuinely new people out there who are creating their first character rather than an alt. Maybe those of them who read this thread will have their starting careers a little easier than mine was.
Didn't bother with destroyer and tractor beams as they seemed to expensive for the moment just for salvaging level 1 missions. Maybe when I can do level 2s consistently a destroyer setup for salvaging will be worth the investment though.
Didn't salvage other peoples wrecks just my own. I salvaged level 1 base ql 20(or 18 i forget) QL agent missions, althought now that QL is 39 or close to that.
And seriously it's not that much money, I make about ~3mils or more of the big missions like blockade and worlds collide(closer 5 on this one actually) just from selling the drops and salvage. Couple of those missions can fund the whole set of learning skills easily.
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Tunmarr
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Posted - 2009.04.28 11:37:00 -
[21]
Making a few million is'nt hard. Hang round places like Hek, which have regualar scraps right outside the station. Salvage of T2 ships can give a small fortune. Steal mods from said wreaks and you soon have enough for all the learning books.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.04.28 19:17:00 -
[22]
Praetor Aurelius:
1) No. Not skill points - only attributes. 2) I think the idea was that it would let you create your own character entirely instead of letting the game pick your training. I agree that it also took away some of the depth of the characters. Before picking your blood line meant something. Now it means nothing. All in all - I think that it is really more of a benefit to people like myself - who are NOT new players but simply creating alts. We already know what skills we want. For the new player - they mostly have no idea what to train. The one good thing I like about having all three career agents at each school is that it's easier to do what I always told people to do and train all three of them. Still though - this also takes away from the back story of the game as - you get randomly assigned to these schools so their names - like the bloodlines - are meaningless.
K'Daai:
Thanks for the clarification. I'd say the one thing that would really have made a difference besides playing time was the quality of your agents. Those are pretty good agents.
As to the destroyers ... yeah ... if you're paying for them yourself they are expensive to start with - but - if you can afford those rank 3 learning skills you can afford a couple of destroyers - and believe me - it will make missions like Worlds Collide go SO much faster both in running the mission and in salvaging it afterward. They aren't that useful for the "go over here and kill three rats" type of mission as it actually takes longer to go back and fetch the salvaging destroyer than it would to have just put a single salvager in that dead high slot on your punisher. But over all - it is definitely worth it. You'll pop rats as fast s you can target them and salvage them just about as fast. I've tried to run missions again in frigates after using destroyers and ... it is positively painful. I don't do it. I go get the destroyer.
Tunmarr:
Yessss ... I have on occasion hung out around a trade hub (where there is an unending series of corporate wars going on) and ... gotten some really good salvage ... really good.
Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
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