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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.04.27 20:54:00 -
[61]
I'd like to see the tutorial missions include having another newbie show up, and have your instructor tell you to shoot up their ibis :)
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Irida Mershkov
Gallente War is Bliss
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Posted - 2009.04.27 21:08:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Plave Okice This is why of everything I've done over the last 5 years in Eve Red vs Blue was my favourite time.
We got so many bears and noobs who otherwise would never have pvp'd out having fun, killing each other and getting a real blood lust.
I still speak to quite a few who've gone on to go -10 or out into 0.0 and never looked back, people just need that first incentive to start. This was all pre FW of course, not sure how FW has gone as I never joined it, same principle though.
Whatever happened to RVB? I rolled an alt for it and only logged in once or twice so I didn't get to see much.
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Avoida
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Posted - 2009.04.27 21:59:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Crackzilla
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon There's no mechanic that really encourages players to go out and experience the game. New players.
Agreed.
The big issues are that new players think more sp = god mode and that pvp requires that perfect ship and perfect fittings. And that fear of getting popped.
Almost needs a tutorial mission where players intentially get themselves on one side or another of a killmail.
It could be done. At the end of the tutorial, the final mission pairs you up with a random person also going through the tutorial and makes you go out and kill that person. The person on the other end receives notification that he's be tagged and can either go defensive and wait for the aggressor or take the initiative and go after that person. Think "The Assassination Game" for those that played it in college.
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Sandor Krejaa
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Posted - 2009.04.27 22:49:00 -
[64]
Cool, glad to see a carebear conversion! Lowsec/0.0 is more fun imho..not just ebcause of PvP but the threat of PvP makes it exciting too..gotta stay awake, and ATK in lowsec..not the place to be macromining, or afk'ing or whatever.
Great place for players who seek to keep an active connection with their toon.
hehe greatest fleets in Eve are those comprised of T1 'junk' and pilots not afraid to hurl them at expensive toys in an endless stream. Zerg FTW!
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Wannabehero
Absolutely No Retreat
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Posted - 2009.04.27 23:00:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Irida Mershkov
Originally by: Plave Okice This is why of everything I've done over the last 5 years in Eve Red vs Blue was my favourite time.
We got so many bears and noobs who otherwise would never have pvp'd out having fun, killing each other and getting a real blood lust.
I still speak to quite a few who've gone on to go -10 or out into 0.0 and never looked back, people just need that first incentive to start. This was all pre FW of course, not sure how FW has gone as I never joined it, same principle though.
Whatever happened to RVB? I rolled an alt for it and only logged in once or twice so I didn't get to see much.
I'm curious as well. A co-worker and myself wanted to create alts to have fun in RvB, but now I can't seem to find any info about them. --
Don't harsh my mellow |
dankness420
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Posted - 2009.04.27 23:09:00 -
[66]
the best thing to do is get some people and raid some 0.0 space. tons of carebears out there and they dont even dock up when neutrals enter local.
you can pvp in a t1 frig. all you need is a web and scram. hell, my main has 35m sp and i fly ships that cost less then my clone in fleets sometimes. tactics matter more then SP
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Tanaka Raizo
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Posted - 2009.04.28 00:24:00 -
[67]
Ican second the ideathat newplayers should be exposed to PvP in tutorials...
Ive been playing 6 whole days,and , while the game is daunting...its not beyond comprehension to learn. I have been low sec killed on 2 occaisions, podded once, not mentioning any names, but the latter was near Arnor.
Immediately after i was podded I had the chance to be invited into a little hunting engagement near to arnor last night with a cruiser and a destroyer, we went into low sec space expressly to hunt down the guy that podded me, ad anyotehr random target. Well, lo and behold the person that podded me showed up and attacked all 3 of us, for the next 20 minutes it was a touch and go battle with our heavy basically stalemated against the guy while his drones worked over my frigate and our destroyer, i lost 2frigates then came back ith a destroyer and lost that too lo.
But it was actually fun, and gave me a chance to try a few different tactics (all of which failed of course), in an extended battle. Sadly the battle ended with the pirate crashing out and our cruiser managing to withdraw low on missiles, we came out o nthe short end but it was very fun.
People shouldnt be so wrapped up in thei pursuit of "wealth" that they overlook the fun of simply getting into a mixup with otehr players...it can be expensive...but it can also fun, and a learning experience that will help them later on.
Hats off to the guys that brought me along, as well as the podding bastage (also for not looting my wreck)
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CCP Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2009.04.28 10:01:00 -
[68]
Nice thread. WeŠve been thinking here about introducing new players to combat a bit more in the early stages of their EVE life. So keep the ideas coming please
Pink Dread has been hijacked
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Kale Kold
Caldari Mortis Angelus The Church.
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Posted - 2009.04.28 10:14:00 -
[69]
I wub u Eris
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Plave Okice
The Okice Family
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Posted - 2009.04.28 10:39:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Wannabehero
Originally by: Irida Mershkov Whatever happened to RVB? I rolled an alt for it and only logged in once or twice so I didn't get to see much.
I'm curious as well. A co-worker and myself wanted to create alts to have fun in RvB, but now I can't seem to find any info about them.
It was difficult to manage on my own and it was difficult to find people with the right attitude and experience to help out, there was loads of awesome people involved but they joined just to pew pew so I don't blame them at all. I have thought about resurrecting it a few times in a slightly different format and if I can get the right team together I might just do it. RvB for 2009, bigger and better.
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Shariska
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Posted - 2009.04.28 10:46:00 -
[71]
PVP is awesome, but way to many, me included stay away from it for too long.
As said in this thread there could be a mission in the tutorial that pitted you against another player, noob ships ofcourse, and ones you won it you cant come back to that mission to grief others.
Shuld atleast give some people an idea of pvp, just a thought.
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.04.28 10:48:00 -
[72]
Edited by: TraininVain on 28/04/2009 10:50:35
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Nice thread. WeŠve been thinking here about introducing new players to combat a bit more in the early stages of their EVE life. So keep the ideas coming please
I think FW could be the perfect platform to do that with with some tweaking.
Don't ask me what precisely though.
Rewards is the first thing that springs to mind but I don't know what that does for overall balancing.
The other thing that springs to mind is making the PvP and PvE content less night and day.
Quote: You know what? There are plenty of carebears* in 0.0, and even some in lo-sec.
Hilariously true.
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.04.28 10:56:00 -
[73]
Forcing players to fight another player in the tutorial wouldn't work unless there was a way of excluding high-SP characters from running the tutorial at all, or running them in ships that are unkillable for a genuine noob in their starter ships.
Dropping them right into FW wouldn't work either because they would be exposed instantly to the blob-fests, and being killed anywhere without any obvious explanation would I'm sure be a turn-off for any noob.
Imo the best solution is one where there is a controlled destruction of a players ship somewhere during the tutorial, and a followup set of missions where they have to rebuild their assets (i.e. making sure they realise it's not a big deal, etc).
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Vincent Gaines
Dirt Nap Squad
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Posted - 2009.04.28 11:01:00 -
[74]
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Nice thread. WeŠve been thinking here about introducing new players to combat a bit more in the early stages of their EVE life. So keep the ideas coming please
have hisec conquerable systems that go 0.4 when in contested mode.
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Seishi Maru
M. Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.04.28 11:21:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon This is my biggest pet peeve, I guess. There's no mechanic that really encourages players to go out and experience the game. New players.
Yea and new players are put in noob corps filled with bitter carebears that try to tell you that low sec/0.0 is a place where you have no chance to survive unless you are in a 100 man fleet and have 50+ mill SP.
that is a VERY important factor. Think CCP should , in fact they MUST make that the noob corps be only for noobs. After liek 3 months on them you are moved into ANOTHER npc corp. That prevents old carebears from lying and seeding fear at noob hearts.
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Lysan Dar
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Posted - 2009.04.28 11:34:00 -
[76]
I've been reading the thread whilst eating my lunch at work. Have been convinced to go do pvp tonght with my 2.5m SP noob dood. Rolled up a soldier and have been mining veldspar for a month as well as the odd repetitive mission.
My hands are shaking already. Is New Eden ready for my punisher onslaught?
Anyhow am in Tash Murkon - where is the nearest/best lowsec/nosec system to dive into? so I need a web and a scrambler (check) and some guns (check) any other hints from the pro's?
I also think am about set myself up to be ambushed!
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Razzor Death
Valor Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.28 11:48:00 -
[77]
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Nice thread. WeŠve been thinking here about introducing new players to combat a bit more in the early stages of their EVE life. So keep the ideas coming please
Thats good to hear but how do you think your going to do this ?
Theres 3 games you can play in eve, High sec, Low sec & 0.0, Anybody who has tried or experianced all will know they are like playing very different games but with the same mechanics, Now as it stands for me my fav is low sec, Piracy is where my heart is. Now being a pirate has concequences ie. banned from high sec ( having to make alts and become self efficent etc ) So to new guys and carebears alike this seems quite "worrying".
Now there is always 0.0, But whats out there now for a new guy ? or even a CEO with big ideas ? Nothing, All the good space is claimed and no matter how you look at it the reality of the situation is you become a rent-a-pet... Now that sucks, In reality your saying to new people with big dreams, Hey if you want that space in 0.0 your going to need a 1000man alliance and a NAP list of about 5000 men :/ ( Do you see where im going here ? )
So the only viable PvP with the "least" blob sized warfare is in low sec with the obvios "your a mean ol piwate" tag.
Now this is fine with me, I love piracy and i love flashing red it makes me feel special inside, But if your really looking into encouraging early pvp experiance for the newer guys then Great, I would say that rocks but maybe you need to look into expanding 0.0 or something to give newer people and newer corps and forces more pvp options other than being outlaws.
Again im not complaing i have 3482342834092 alts to do my shopping for me, But im looking at it from a new player point of view. The only viable options ( and in reality what happens, you can nit pick the facts all you like ) is goto 0.0 and be a good little pet or get curb stomped for trying, or goto low sec and be a outlaw and have to pay for another account to really help take the presure of keeping urself sustained.
This is what happens in many MMO's the same age as eve. All the end game(0.0 for arguments sake) is filled up and you dont stand a chance. But the great thing is with eve is there are multiple ways you can combat this by simply making it bigger. Maybe that would be a good thing to do to re-open the door to the 0.0 game where your not a outlaw with a ruined sec stat and may inject big ambitions from new faces or new corps etc.
Not a whine or a rant, Im just trying to be constructive i dont give a damn about 0.0 and personally 0.0 warfare blows compared to the way of the Yar. Just thinking of the "new generations" and what would help draw them to leaving high sec to fight. A purpose.
Sorry for spelling, im tired
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The Snowman
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.04.28 11:57:00 -
[78]
Its quite simple,
There needs to be a comprehensive and official video guide to pvp basics.
not 'pirating' or 'FW' or whatever category, just the simple basics, like how to use the onboard scanner, agression timers, safe spots, baiting and scouting along with basic tackling principles. This along with typical FC Orders, align, jump on contact, jump and hold, jump and re approach. What they mean, and why those orders are used.
Armed with this knowledge they could jump straight into any pvp corp and feel comfortable.
Video's could be streamed from another server or even youtube, and we know how much CCP LOVE to make videos, if only they would make more educational videos than the tom-foolery ones they normally do ;) |
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CCP Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2009.04.28 13:43:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Razzor Death
Not a whine or a rant, Im just trying to be constructive
Not taken as a rant and it was a useful post
I donŠt want to elaborate more and possible taint the replies, but we do appreciate the comments here.
Pink Dread has been hijacked
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Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.28 14:18:00 -
[80]
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Nice thread. WeŠve been thinking here about introducing new players to combat a bit more in the early stages of their EVE life. So keep the ideas coming please
1. Do something with the npc corps. Turn them into real noob corps. Having seen what gets said in there by the bitter missionrunners its no wonder new players dont pvp.
2. Introduce more risk to high sec or nerf its reward. There has to be a reason to risk your ship.
And yea this is my sig. Real PVP'ers only use f1. |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.04.28 14:19:00 -
[81]
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia
Originally by: Razzor Death
Not a whine or a rant, Im just trying to be constructive
Not taken as a rant and it was a useful post
I donŠt want to elaborate more and possible taint the replies, but we do appreciate the comments here.
One thing that I liked about W-space is the mass limits on wormholes. Setting a condition whereby "bring more people" isn't automatically the best option was an excellent innovation. Maybe a small region of NPC space with old weaksauce stargates that will only admit cruiser-size ships and below would be fun (if you want a battleship you have to build it in system and can't move it out). Add in some condition that limits or excludes cyno fields and we have the small gang playground that so many have been asking for.
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Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.28 14:31:00 -
[82]
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Nice thread. WeŠve been thinking here about introducing new players to combat a bit more in the early stages of their EVE life. So keep the ideas coming please
A) NPC corps are filled with players who are bitter and more often then not, wrong. These older players then go out of their way to convince all new players how evil pvp is, how every time a new player enters losec he's insta-capped, etc, etc. You may not want to change NPC corps to prevent war-dec's and the like, but you need to really look at the impact these players are having on your new playerbase. For the same reason you ban players who can-bait in noob systems, to be honest.
B) Scalable PvP. If a player knows that in certain systems he can fight other players in frigates without worrying about getting a sec hit or CONCORD, he's more likely to jump in. But at 0.5 sec, no matter the player's age or skill, he is going to face battleships with T2 weaponry and pimped fits. You could impliment these systems by making new systems, or scaling it universally through hisec and low.
C) Let players protect players. Review the 'Marshals' or Pod cops ideas in F&I.
D) Introduce new PvP missions (will elaborate in F&I today).
E) Encourage Faction Warfare, by reducing the cost for faction ships to those participating. If a new player can fly an Amarr Navy Slicer, it might be a hefty encouragement to participate.
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
Attrezzo Pox
Amarr Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.04.28 14:36:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Crackzilla
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon There's no mechanic that really encourages players to go out and experience the game. New players.
Agreed.
The big issues are that new players think more sp = god mode and that pvp requires that perfect ship and perfect fittings. And that fear of getting popped.
Almost needs a tutorial mission where players intentially get themselves on one side or another of a killmail.
'greed. The fear of popping that shiny new ship provokes a whole lot of hatred and /cryquits. The poster's corp did it right, get em in cheap tech I stuff they can afford to lose and show them how NOT to pvp.
AKA jump in your most expensive ship and go out cavalier on your onesies hoping to pop a freighter.
The only thing I disagree on is the mechanic. PvP was and is naturally taken over by players. Ultimately it's our responsibility to drive the PvP mechanic. It's just we all want to be the best so it makes PVP very competitive and exclusive. Like I said though, if you have the balls to try to start with it that's more than 80% of the effort. Just learning to get blown up and take affordable losses while you're learning.
Unfortunately, hardwireing in a mechanic that would get nubbles into PvP is very likely to take away a very awesome aspect of the game we all enjoy. PvP in Eve isn't for the feint of heart, you are not spoonfed enemies that are perfectly matched to you. You are not given a manual to read that tells you how to fit your ship. There is no automatic fairness ref. You get what you get. If you're fighting a hardcore '03 char in a tricked out strat cruiser you're probably going to lose today. But hey maybe tomorrow you'll find that nublar POS owner hauling his moon mins into empire. Horrah! *-------------------------* PoX IS Eve!!! BOOM!!! |
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.28 14:48:00 -
[84]
Maybe all you need is a simple mission goal: the mission isn't complete, until you are on someone else's kill mail.
Seriously. A simple mission where your own goal is to be killed. Your immortal, right? Maybe this is the last test of your training ... the ability to face your death and work through it. So, they give you a mission where your task is to get yourself killed by another player, ship and pod. The reward? A new ship, of course!
Make suggestions for the best ways to die within the mission parameters, like maybe he can try crime (theft, since assault/murder will get him concorded in hisec), or maybe he can go into losec and fight criminals. Doesn't really matter how he does it, as long as he does it.
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
Attrezzo Pox
Amarr Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.04.28 14:56:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Lysan Dar I've been reading the thread whilst eating my lunch at work. Have been convinced to go do pvp tonght with my 2.5m SP noob dood. Rolled up a soldier and have been mining veldspar for a month as well as the odd repetitive mission.
My hands are shaking already. Is New Eden ready for my punisher onslaught?
Anyhow am in Tash Murkon - where is the nearest/best lowsec/nosec system to dive into? so I need a web and a scrambler (check) and some guns (check) any other hints from the pro's?
I also think am about set myself up to be ambushed!
I endorse this attitude!
Be ready to get wtfpwned. That's ok though we all are at some point. Only the arrogent liers aren't and they're not any good anyway. *-------------------------* PoX IS Eve!!! BOOM!!! |
Attrezzo Pox
Amarr Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.04.28 15:19:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Razzor Death
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Nice thread. WeŠve been thinking here about introducing new players to combat a bit more in the early stages of their EVE life. So keep the ideas coming please
Thats good to hear but how do you think your going to do this ?
Theres 3 games you can play in eve, High sec, Low sec & 0.0, Anybody who has tried or experienced all will know they are like playing very different games but with the same mechanics, Now as it stands for me my fav is low sec, Piracy is where my heart is. Now being a pirate has concequences ie. banned from high sec ( having to make alts and become self efficent etc ) So to new guys and carebears alike this seems quite "worrying".
Now there is always 0.0, But whats out there now for a new guy ? or even a CEO with big ideas ? Nothing, All the good space is claimed and no matter how you look at it the reality of the situation is you become a rent-a-pet... Now that sucks, In reality your saying to new people with big dreams, Hey if you want that space in 0.0 your going to need a 1000man alliance and a NAP list of about 5000 men :/ ( Do you see where im going here ? )
#1 war decs. PvP in empire easy. #2 Factional Warfare... Even better than war decs. More PvP in empire. #3 0.0 was made for the starry eyed CEO. You think that the same people in 0.0 have been there for 6+ years. heh k, no. It's VERY possible to join an alliance with just your little group, and why wouldn't you want to. IF there WERE free space you went off and claimed it would get gobbled up by your neighbours because you don't have any friends there. This isn't a game mechanic... This is real life. 0.0 is how real people work, don't ask ccp to fix real people that's silly. #4 Curse. there's your 0.0. It's been everyman's 0.0 for ages and you'd be hard pressed to find a better mix of hardcore pvp. You can have it all there, small ganks, big fleets, and solo. no sec hits. But just like low sec it's hard to make a buck. But if you are persistent and give it a good effort I bet you'll find it just right. #5 Piracy in low sec sucks for unipirates. It has for quite awhile, imho the sec status is too hard to work off and/or it's too well enforced in empire. IF it weren't for that it'd be a better PvP option for a single person or small group. It's best done in a decent sized corp 20+ - 40- with mining or mission alts otherwise there's no money in it. For that matter, you can lay claim to low sec and nap up miners to pay you monthly to get to the ores there with your protection. Think of it as a beginners 0.0 because that's generally how 0.0 is run. If you don't work your space you'll never get it right in low sec or 0.0. It's not all about pew pew, you gotta make some money too.
In summation. -If you're wanting just to PvP and you're in a very small corp or by yourself and you can't afford low sec. Your options are FW, and war decs. -If you have a reasonably sized corp and you want more pvp and maybe a foot in the door of 0.0 there's places curse, and low sec. -If you're ambitious you'll talk to the alliance leaders of some alliance and join them. You're only a pet if you let yourself be. Alliance leaders work really freaking hard. (generally speaking) they're on a lot, and even though many of them aren't the best people in the world they've earned their spot with guts, buddies, and time. If you want that, that's the only way to get there. Sorry, that's how it works. BUT if you have something to offer the smart ones won't overlook the potential. Just don't think they're going to make you a director for offering to haul some veld. And don't hold it against them, you wouldn't either.
For example, you're a pirate right? I bet you patrol your fair few low sec-0.0 jumps? Offer to join an alliance and control that point. That's worth it to many of them. Then you get naped and voila, 0.0 access and a nap. The pew pew goes down but that's one of the costs.
*-------------------------* PoX IS Eve!!! BOOM!!! |
H Lecter
Gallente The Black Rabbits Academy The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.04.28 15:21:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Maybe all you need is a simple mission goal: the mission isn't complete, until you are on someone else's kill mail.
Seriously. A simple mission where your own goal is to be killed. Your immortal, right? Maybe this is the last test of your training ... the ability to face your death and work through it. So, they give you a mission where your task is to get yourself killed by another player, ship and pod. The reward? A new ship, of course!
Make suggestions for the best ways to die within the mission parameters, like maybe he can try crime (theft, since assault/murder will get him concorded in hisec), or maybe he can go into losec and fight criminals. Doesn't really matter how he does it, as long as he does it.
That makes perfect sense. I think I learned each of the aggro mechanics by losing another ship If I had started a bit earlier these lessons would have been much less expensive.
When Eve is supposed to be a PvP game this should not be neglected by the entire tutorial.
And I support the idea of having real 'noob' corps without bitter carebears in them.
Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed resolution of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. -Weatherman |
Razzor Death
Valor Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.28 15:59:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Razzor Death on 28/04/2009 16:01:14 @ Attrezzo Pox
lol sorry m8 but FW is a joke and war decs are beyond lame, have you tried these things or you spouting things off the retail box ?
and yes as you just said ur small group can go be another big persons pet, re read the post m8
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Tony Kael
Caldari Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.04.29 01:02:00 -
[89]
this thread got me into 0.0. thankyou! ____________________________________ SKMC |
Chraiz
Gallente University of Caille
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Posted - 2009.04.29 01:22:00 -
[90]
My first PvP experience. - Get Astrometrics - Spend 30 minutes tracking down a signature that ends up leading to WH space. - Enter WH space and see nothing on the overview - De cloak and scan - Get shot to hell by someone waiting near the WH - Clone and think "One day I'll get that little SOB." Start training for more PvP skils.
Maybe it's just my twisted morality but revenge is the best reason for PvP. Some of my best friends I've met in MMOs are people I've killed or been killed by due to mutual fun not the e-peen stroking view of PvP that turns many players away.
PvP is what you make of it really and requires a degree of calm.
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