Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
X'Faith
|
Posted - 2009.04.27 17:41:00 -
[1]
Edited by: X''Faith on 27/04/2009 17:42:09 so i've been looking into this and i looked at courrior contracts and alot seem just rubbish, with such hi collaterals meaning any worth while are very difficult to find. so was woundering if anyone could give me any pointers? should i try start a hauling business like i see in the for sale forums? but i only have an itty 5 currently? any advice would be greatly apprciated.. thanks.
|
Dzil
Caldari Tritanium Science and Research
|
Posted - 2009.04.27 17:52:00 -
[2]
Originally by: X'Faith so i've been looking into this and i looked at courrior contracts and alot seem just rubbish so was woundering if anyone could give me any pointers? should i try start a hauling business like i see in the for sale forums? but i only have an itty 5 currently? any advice would be greatly apprciated.. thanks.
Well a couple things: On contracts, you'd have to be a little more clear what you consider "rubbish". Average pay seems to run .5 - 2.5% of collateral, and 25k -500k per jump depending on volume being moved.
I would say what you should do depends greatly on what you enjoy doing:
1. If you really want to freelance for players, to take part in the real economy of eve rather than reset NPC trade goods, by all means continue running contracts.
2. If you want to make dependable money hauling, consider carting NPC goods, player modules, or just simply settling on a courier mission agent (storage/distribution types).
3. If you envision running a business, be ready to run a business (making a place in the market means either establishing your own niche, or doing someone elses thing better than them). Hauling in and of itself isn't exactly new, and there are already some specialized haulers such as fuel services. There are voids to fill in low/null sec, but there are challenges in reputation and security that often make this an unattractive businses venture. At any rate, figure out your niche or how you'll do hauling better than existing services before you launch a business.
|
X'Faith
|
Posted - 2009.04.27 18:07:00 -
[3]
cool thanks guess i'll keep doing what am doing currently and start to think about business etc. i really do enjoy do enjoy flying around etc.
thanks for the advice
|
Xiao LoPan
|
Posted - 2009.04.27 18:31:00 -
[4]
be careful about where you accept contracts to, some are set up for pirates to ambush haulers and keep the collateral, or set you up by having the delivery to a locked station and keep your collateral.
|
Seraph Castillon
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.04.27 21:10:00 -
[5]
The good contracts seem to go pretty fast. Whenever I setup a courier one to move some modules or various stuff that I can't be arsed to move myself it usually gets accepted within 20 minutes. (These are low volume, low collateral contracts). Making good money by running courier contracts seems like it requires planning, huge cargo capacity and loads of isk to invest in collateral. And even if you have that all you could probably put it to better use.
One other option has always intrigued me: Moving around modules between regions. Look at module prices in mission hubs like Doxie and compare them with prices in market hubs in regions without these major mission hubs. The high suply in the mission hubs pushes the prices down. Market hubs that don't have major (level 4) mission hubs in their regions are not influenced by these high suplies. Therefor prices in those systems remain relatively high.
You will find that there is often a high profit margin there. Whether that margin translates into high isk/hour and isk/volume values ... I don't know. It wil mostly depend on the ship you fly (cargo size), on the amount of isk you can invest and on your understanding of prices in different regions.
Ofcourse you don't need to go as far as inter region trade routes. You can attempt to do the same within a single region.
|
Mystafyre
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.04.27 21:12:00 -
[6]
Originally by: X'Faith Edited by: X''Faith on 27/04/2009 17:42:09 so i've been looking into this and i looked at courrior contracts and alot seem just rubbish, with such hi collaterals meaning any worth while are very difficult to find. so was woundering if anyone could give me any pointers? should i try start a hauling business like i see in the for sale forums? but i only have an itty 5 currently? any advice would be greatly apprciated.. thanks.
So, if I need stuff worth of 2 B ISK hauled, do you expect me to put 15k ISK as collateral so every noob can steal my stuff?
|
Royal Sin
|
Posted - 2009.04.27 21:31:00 -
[7]
Xfaith - I employ private haulers consistently with good rewards and bonuses. I can work with any level of experience. Join channel 'corpia' and we can chat.
|
Xiao LoPan
|
Posted - 2009.04.27 21:31:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Mystafyre
Originally by: X'Faith Edited by: X''Faith on 27/04/2009 17:42:09 so i've been looking into this and i looked at courrior contracts and alot seem just rubbish, with such hi collaterals meaning any worth while are very difficult to find. so was woundering if anyone could give me any pointers? should i try start a hauling business like i see in the for sale forums? but i only have an itty 5 currently? any advice would be greatly apprciated.. thanks.
So, if I need stuff worth of 2 B ISK hauled, do you expect me to put 15k ISK as collateral so every noob can steal my stuff?
he is probably wondering why people want you to haul a 150 mil isk collateral load and want to pay less than a hi-sec belt rat bounty. many contracts i see want you to move all their stuff for free.
|
Vested Interest
|
Posted - 2009.04.27 21:39:00 -
[9]
The good jobs go fast. Anything still up after 24 hours is just the dregs or otherwise "special".
|
X'Faith
|
Posted - 2009.04.27 22:26:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Xiao LoPan
Originally by: Mystafyre
Originally by: X'Faith Edited by: X''Faith on 27/04/2009 17:42:09 so i've been looking into this and i looked at courrior contracts and alot seem just rubbish, with such hi collaterals meaning any worth while are very difficult to find. so was woundering if anyone could give me any pointers? should i try start a hauling business like i see in the for sale forums? but i only have an itty 5 currently? any advice would be greatly apprciated.. thanks.
So, if I need stuff worth of 2 B ISK hauled, do you expect me to put 15k ISK as collateral so every noob can steal my stuff?
he is probably wondering why people want you to haul a 150 mil isk collateral load and want to pay less than a hi-sec belt rat bounty. many contracts i see want you to move all their stuff for free.
yup that is indeed what i was woundering :) i'll keep plodding along, i realy enjoy it shame it don't pay so well with those contacts
|
|
Slaydo GAme
|
Posted - 2009.04.27 22:40:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Slaydo GAme on 27/04/2009 22:40:43 well, you have a pretty good hauler in my opinion so go for it if you want. yeah, rewards do seem rubbish for compared to collateral, some i find arent even worth it at pick up..... kind of annoying when you pay 80mil to take 2x friggin T1 cruise launchers 8 jumps for less then 500k. People need to adjust aoccrdingly...a high priced skill book or item i can see but not crappy items.
sort by price and just keep looking. The more money you can put up for collateral the better, being smart when plannig routes is good as well. and grab multiple contracts if you can. When you get enough money grab a cargo rig or two, bigger loads and contracts. Goodluck, have fun ;)
|
Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
|
Posted - 2009.05.03 06:03:00 -
[12]
Just a quick preface, posting in this topic because it seems much more relevant, and I've been away for the last 3 days and unable to reply.
The day I went away my 3-jump contract with 1 bil collateral and 1.5 mil reward for 15,000m3 was accepted, so I guess there are people out there who accept less than 1% of collateral as reward.
On the topic of "It's a lot of collateral to risk if you get popped", I really think it's just a bit of scaremongering tbh. I've done the route in a freighter for over a year and not once been at risk of losing anything. It's not hard to safeguard an investment while hauling, and if AFK couriering is your idea of a quality courier service deserving of 1% of collateral, you're sorely mistaken.
It's funny that the notion proposed to me is that rewards should be 1% of collateral, while, in the case of my 1 bil collateral haul, my question is "How is hauling 15,000m3 of goods 3 jumps in high sec worth 10 million ISK?". If someone can answer that question for me, I'll be more than happy to accept my rewards are sub-standard and I'll just buy a freighter and do it myself.
For me, it's not that unacceptable. Personally, that kinda haul is only worth 100-200k ISK, but I pay 1-2 mil or so per 10k m3 depending on my profit margins because that's what the convenience is worth to me, as it doesn't require a freighter and it takes about 2-3 minutes. If you loaded up with 5 contracts like that (and I usually have that many) and throwing them in a freighter, you're looking at a 5-10 mil reward for 5 minutes work. With that level of collateral, you've definately got the ISK to fit up a Bustard with an improved cloak and MWD/cloak/warp trick your way through any problem in high sec for those low volume, high collateral jobs.
|
Carrie Mehome
Destiny Logistics
|
Posted - 2009.05.03 15:11:00 -
[13]
Hauling is something I enjoy. However, I have yet to touch a couier contract. Look at minerals in you region and surrounding regions. Buy em low and move em to where you can sell em high. In my Charon on a good day in 2-3 hours I can make around 70-100 million isk profit. On a bad day, only 20-30 million profit. However this maket changes hourly so you have to be fast.
|
Black Mack
|
Posted - 2009.05.03 18:08:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs "How is hauling 15,000m3 of goods 3 jumps in high sec worth 10 million ISK?".
Because you have a collateral of 1b. Perhaps I am mistaken, but I would imagine that very few people who have 1b liquid sitting in their wallet are looking at running courier contracts for cash. Time is money, and I personally can think of several things that I could do with that 1b that can make much, much more than 10mil.
Now, the fact that someone actually ran your courier contract almost completely invalidates my point. No one can tell you what an appropriate reward is: you can set it as low as you want, as long as people will accept it. I was merely pointing out why I, personally, consider it totally reasonable to expect at reward at 1% of your collateral.
|
Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
|
Posted - 2009.05.03 22:21:00 -
[15]
Quote:
Because you have a collateral of 1b. Perhaps I am mistaken, but I would imagine that very few people who have 1b liquid sitting in their wallet are looking at running courier contracts for cash. Time is money, and I personally can think of several things that I could do with that 1b that can make much, much more than 10mil.
The amount of "Hey, I bought a freighter, now how can I make ISK hauling stuff" threads I've seen would beg me to differ there. And, if you're in the profession of hauling stuff, then you should have a billion ISK lying around for collateral at least.
But you're right. Time is money, and 2 or 3 minutes going 3 jumps in high sec along what's (in my perception) never been a dangerous route is worth far less than 10 mil ISK, regardless of the collateral because you'll get it back after 3 minutes. Collateral incurs no extra effort on the haulers behalf. Your reward is based off that effort.
So really we agree to disagree, you think it's worth it, and I don't. So I buy myself a freighter and do it myself because what I'm getting out of the contract is definately not worth 10 mil. Which probably explains why the courier contracts seem barren in that respect.
|
Xiao LoPan
|
Posted - 2009.05.03 22:32:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs
Quote:
Because you have a collateral of 1b. Perhaps I am mistaken, but I would imagine that very few people who have 1b liquid sitting in their wallet are looking at running courier contracts for cash. Time is money, and I personally can think of several things that I could do with that 1b that can make much, much more than 10mil.
The amount of "Hey, I bought a freighter, now how can I make ISK hauling stuff" threads I've seen would beg me to differ there. And, if you're in the profession of hauling stuff, then you should have a billion ISK lying around for collateral at least.
But you're right. Time is money, and 2 or 3 minutes going 3 jumps in high sec along what's (in my perception) never been a dangerous route is worth far less than 10 mil ISK, regardless of the collateral because you'll get it back after 3 minutes. Collateral incurs no extra effort on the haulers behalf. Your reward is based off that effort.
So really we agree to disagree, you think it's worth it, and I don't. So I buy myself a freighter and do it myself because what I'm getting out of the contract is definately not worth 10 mil. Which probably explains why the courier contracts seem barren in that respect.
you may be getting back the collateral, or you may be getting set up for a suicide gank. every time you leave dock you should be asking yourself, is the payoff worth risking the loss of my ship and fittings, and clone, and implants, because you do risk that every time you undock.
|
Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
|
Posted - 2009.05.04 08:36:00 -
[17]
Quote:
you may be getting back the collateral, or you may be getting set up for a suicide gank. every time you leave dock you should be asking yourself, is the payoff worth risking the loss of my ship and fittings, and clone, and implants, because you do risk that every time you undock.
Well with that in mind lets just never undock then
|
Xiao LoPan
|
Posted - 2009.05.04 13:52:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs
Quote:
you may be getting back the collateral, or you may be getting set up for a suicide gank. every time you leave dock you should be asking yourself, is the payoff worth risking the loss of my ship and fittings, and clone, and implants, because you do risk that every time you undock.
Well with that in mind lets just never undock then
I am not saying that, what i am saying is that you do have to worry about the collateral because the fact is that anytime another player is involved you have to consider the very real possibility that he/she will try to burn you. risking a billion to make 10 million is just silly, in essence every time you pay collateral you are placing a bounty on yourself.
|
Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
|
Posted - 2009.05.04 14:18:00 -
[19]
Quote:
I am not saying that, what i am saying is that you do have to worry about the collateral because the fact is that anytime another player is involved you have to consider the very real possibility that he/she will try to burn you. risking a billion to make 10 million is just silly, in essence every time you pay collateral you are placing a bounty on yourself.
I was going to say more, but I'm just in too much disbelief at your paranoia. Learn to haul safely.
|
Dzil
Caldari Second Quadrant Ice Division
|
Posted - 2009.05.04 15:01:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs
Quote:
I am not saying that, what i am saying is that you do have to worry about the collateral because the fact is that anytime another player is involved you have to consider the very real possibility that he/she will try to burn you. risking a billion to make 10 million is just silly, in essence every time you pay collateral you are placing a bounty on yourself.
I was going to say more, but I'm just in too much disbelief at your paranoia. Learn to haul safely.
It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you. This is EVE, after all.
|
|
Ms Delerium
|
Posted - 2009.05.04 18:50:00 -
[21]
most of times collateral is ******ed
i'd rather put that isk on the market and multiply it instead of risking it on someone else hands
now put on shoes of a noob. 100mil colateral when he only has 10mil. That or just do contracts that will bring 50k isk for 7 jumps. LMAO.
|
Raven Pox
|
Posted - 2009.05.04 19:29:00 -
[22]
I agree, high collateral + low pay is ftl.
You can put that isk on the market but consider it this way, if you can use the same amount of collateral for smaller contracts and get more money which is the better deal?
|
Dzil
Caldari Second Quadrant Ice Division
|
Posted - 2009.05.04 19:44:00 -
[23]
I've actually started to up my contract pay a bit as a result of this thread. Not because I really needed to, but more as a thank you to what I can see is a pretty thankless profession.
|
Koulaid
|
Posted - 2009.05.05 14:36:00 -
[24]
my question is:
How does an up and coming hauler (currently on Indy V) find consistent work? I've been scrounging through the forums but can't seem to find any business people looking for haulers...
Am I stuck with low paying courier missions and bogus 1 bil collateral to move 3 m^3 10 jumps?
|
Roger Kiyosaki
|
Posted - 2009.05.05 14:42:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Koulaid my question is:
How does an up and coming hauler (currently on Indy V) find consistent work? I've been scrounging through the forums but can't seem to find any business people looking for haulers...
Am I stuck with low paying courier missions and bogus 1 bil collateral to move 3 m^3 10 jumps?
Why not contact producing/mining companies or anyone who might be interested in moving large quantities around if they've got any need for your services and/or have a logistics arm?
And, there should be nothing stopping you from moving 3m^3 items with smaller, faster and way more agile ships.
|
Koulaid
|
Posted - 2009.05.05 14:54:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Roger Kiyosaki
Originally by: Koulaid my question is:
How does an up and coming hauler (currently on Indy V) find consistent work? I've been scrounging through the forums but can't seem to find any business people looking for haulers...
Am I stuck with low paying courier missions and bogus 1 bil collateral to move 3 m^3 10 jumps?
Why not contact producing/mining companies or anyone who might be interested in moving large quantities around if they've got any need for your services and/or have a logistics arm?
And, there should be nothing stopping you from moving 3m^3 items with smaller, faster and way more agile ships.
I apologize I was being facetious about the 3m^3. Just seems like most of the random courier contracts put you in low sec with high collateral. Too much risk for a starting pilot even if I had the 1 bil collateral.
I will take your advice about asking around mining corps etc. Thank you
|
Roger Kiyosaki
|
Posted - 2009.05.05 15:10:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Roger Kiyosaki on 05/05/2009 15:10:23
Originally by: Koulaid I apologize I was being facetious about the 3m^3. Just seems like most of the random courier contracts put you in low sec with high collateral. Too much risk for a starting pilot even if I had the 1 bil collateral.
That's a valid point. Check the start, destination and route for low-sec bottle necks. Plan for the worst case: Someone's out to gank you. Can you find an alternative route that reduces your low-sec exposure even if it means 5 extra jumps? Is it still worthwhile doing it for the extra jumps? Also, whenever I need some hauling done out of or into low sec, I will allow 2 or 3 days time to complete the contract. Looking at that metric should give you an idea whether a setup is more or less likely. Even the most dedicated trappers would be hard pressed to monitor their ganking gate of choice 23 hours a day for 3 days straight.
|
Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
|
Posted - 2009.05.05 15:56:00 -
[28]
Quote:
Edit: And don't be fooled into feeling safe flying high collateral around in high-sec. For 1 bil ISK it would be way to easy to form a suicide ganking squad to reap the collat. payment.
Because, y'know, I'm going to blow up 1 bil of goods to suicide gank it and get, say, 1 bil in collateral back. BTW, characters have a contract history for a reason, if you took a second to look you might see who's legit and who's not, and realise when that gank isn't planned for you. But sorry, I'll stop bringing logic to the table now.
I don't care much for people thinking my view on collateral is right or wrong anymore because I've got my freighter back now and I'm shipping the goods myself because it's quite simply not worth it now. Regardless, something crossed my mind that I failed to mention.
There's a bit of sentiment of "Woe betide the newbie without ISK who has to pay a huge collateral to collect a reward" yet equally demand higher reward for higher collateral. Thanks to that attitude the newbie gets less money.
If you didn't guess, I'm a manufacturer who (was) putting up contracts for advanced materials. Whether I'm missing the ferrogel or the Fernite Carbide makes no difference, manufacturing can't continue without either, so it's equally important for me to get both there. Towards that end, I budgeted a % of my profit for hauling.
Before hearing about this "collateral controlling reward" idea, I paid equal for someone shipping 15000m3 of Ferrogel 3 jumps as I did for someone shipping 15000m3 of Fernite carbide 3 jumps, because the space and effort required was equal.
I juggled some math around the other day and worked out the ferrogel contract should pay almost 100 times more than the fernite contract in reward (using an ISK*m3 ratio). I tweaked the numbers some more and managed to get that figure down to 20 times more. Out of a total reward pool I'd make available for these hauls that a simple DST could haul,, the guy who can afford the Ferrogel collateral gets 95% of that pool and the guy who can only afford the Fernite Carbide haul only gets 5% of that pool, yet he has to work just as hard as the guy moving the ferrogel.
Sorry nubs, blame the rich wanting to be richer for the lack of food for you.
|
Roger Kiyosaki
|
Posted - 2009.05.05 18:02:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Because, y'know, I'm going to blow up 1 bil of goods to suicide gank it and get, say, 1 bil in collateral back.
Because, y'know, if the collateral says 1 bil there's always 1 bil inside, eh?
|
Koulaid
|
Posted - 2009.05.05 18:32:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs
Sorry nubs, blame the rich wanting to be richer for the lack of food for you.
Well the hard part is getting in the door... just finding a manufacture that's willing to do business with you is a crap shoot. So we are left to fight over the random contracts, which as you said benefit the rich haulers over the new ones.
Hmmm... well I guess until I stumble across a mining/producer organization in need of logistics, I'll have to continue grinding out the isk...
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |