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silken mouth
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Posted - 2009.04.28 23:09:00 -
[1]
ok, here is a little tale, did some scanning and found a grav site full of hemo and jaspet, cool!, but before i got my hulk, i checked the ore pricing by adding mineral price to the eve explorers ore calc.
result mining veldspar is more profitable than hemo or jaspet! WTF?!?!
the main problem i see here is the ore distribution that is linked to sec rating of the system, and secondly the fact that veld mining crystals are cheaper than any other mining crystal.
Mineral prices dont fit into the fixed set as they used to.
Easiest way to fix this would be NPC buyers that would result in some sort of minimum price.
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Abulurd Boniface
Gallente Mercantile Exchange for Mining And Exploration
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Posted - 2009.04.28 23:28:00 -
[2]
The problem is that mineral reclamation from loot is too profitable. Reduce the minerals from salvaging by 75% and you'll see the price of exotics jump up.
It's no wonder Veldspar is more profitable than Jaspet: Jaspet is very heavy and the logistics requirement to haul it through unsafe space makes it hardly worth the effort. Risk versus reward.
Nul sec needs, it really does, a dedicated miner capable of defending itself against nul sec rats. I'm not complaining about our affable nul sec freelancers who will come and blow up your ship. It's staying alive against the rats that's the big problem. That, and salvaging needs to yield drastically less minerals. That will help mineral prices for exotics a great deal. When the price goes up it will make mining exotics a lot more attractive. As it stands now, I don't care what I mine, as long as it turns a profit. If that profit comes through mining Veldspar, I'll be happy to mine Veldspar. I'm not particular. ISK doesn't care where it came from.
NPC buyers are not a good idea. The market is player driven. If these balances are upset too much, it will yield unwanted consequences.
I buy my Veld crystals by the dozen :).
Abulurd Boniface ME ME CEO
For good to survive it suffices for evil to acquire a deadly, incapacitating disease. |
Yamichi Wiggin
Caldari Thurisaz Robotics Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.28 23:31:00 -
[3]
Abulurd got it right. Veld's price jumped when they removed the artificial ceiling. CCP WANTS the market to be player driven. I agree that the loot is a problem and it is strange to mine veldspar, sell it, and buy zyd... but it happens and that will drive the price of both for now. ------ Pain is weakness leaving the body.
There is no love in fear |
super loo
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Posted - 2009.04.28 23:35:00 -
[4]
The big problem is the mineral price is set by the players. Short of CCP setting up a million buy orders fixed at the rates they want it to cost there is little can be done. I remember when I first started Megacyte was worth 7.x(K isk) per piece... now its down to 4.X (K isk) I think the Cap building and Jump freighters are bosting the low mins and draining the high mins of there value,
Now any mining op in 0.0 can get there mins back to empire real easy. With the planning of security on there systems the cyno jamming network and all has meant carebears in 0.0 can mine alot! and its drove the Rare mins down. also being that bigger things take buckets of Trit means the Trit prices are V/High! used to be 1-2 isk per piece, now its 4-5 isk!
yeah the Mins need balanced. But would take alot of work!
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Yamichi Wiggin
Caldari Thurisaz Robotics Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.28 23:45:00 -
[5]
At a glance, the phoenix I'm building should require: 124.6KK trit, 28.4KK pyr, 11.1KK mex, 1.8KK iso, 527k nox, 94.6k zyd and 42.8k mega.
If that's a pretty representative breakdown of what ships cost as far as mins go and if all minerals were equally easy to get, then Mega should cost about 2900 times what trit does. When I started playing, that was the case roughly. Since then, low/null sec has expanded, drones have appeared, and the artificial ceiling (shuttles) was taken away from trit.
So mine what you think sells best, sell it, buy what you need- that will drive supply of trit up and demand for everything else up. It'll balance in the end.
------ Pain is weakness leaving the body.
There is no love in fear |
silken mouth
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Posted - 2009.04.29 00:51:00 -
[6]
actually, the i only mentioned hemo and jaspet sa worst examples, but scordite, plag, pyro, omber and kernite have the same problems, they are rarer and the required crystals are more expensive to build.
the reason trit has risen in price is, imho, the removal of npc shuttle sellers.
and i never said introducing npc mineral buyers would be he best option, i just said it would be the easiest...
another option, allthough most likely not appreciated, would be the complete removal of all lowend minerals from nullsec as well as as tech I (crap) loot. this would increase demand...
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NightF0x
Gallente Intergalactic League of Terrorists
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Posted - 2009.04.29 01:12:00 -
[7]
Originally by: silken mouth actually, the i only mentioned hemo and jaspet sa worst examples, but scordite, plag, pyro, omber and kernite have the same problems, they are rarer and the required crystals are more expensive to build.
the reason trit has risen in price is, imho, the removal of npc shuttle sellers.
and i never said introducing npc mineral buyers would be he best option, i just said it would be the easiest...
another option, allthough most likely not appreciated, would be the complete removal of all lowend minerals from nullsec as well as as tech I (crap) loot. this would increase demand...
are you suggesting that they remove the low-end mins from null-sec and eventually the game? If not then where are you planning on putting them? Put them in hi-sec might drive their prices up but it will also drive trit up due to the new roids displacing the veld that was in those systems. It's a very hard balancing act. ------------------------------------
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Public Consultant
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Posted - 2009.04.29 04:58:00 -
[8]
CCP, Please, please, please don't change anything mineral related. I love how it is right now.
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Twenty Five
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.04.29 05:38:00 -
[9]
Simple solution: Bigger belts. Huge, ginormous, solar-system wide belts.... with one rock every 100,000km. - Totally not a miner alt. |
silken mouth
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Posted - 2009.04.29 13:02:00 -
[10]
i think the best solution would be to increase the demand for isogen, pyerite, nocxium and maybe jaspet, by increasing the amount of these mins for building...
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Jdestars
Stars Research systems Incorporation
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Posted - 2009.04.29 13:21:00 -
[11]
the base price npc exist in eve Dbb
Isogen64,00 Megacyte6á700,00 Mexallon15,00 Mophite20á000,00 Nocxium300,00 Pyerite4,00 Tritanium1,50 Zydrine4á600,00
so Eve was regulated by order npc in past CCP can ajust Inflat Crisie with this Methode
But it is a free market and same the offers npc was subject to variations calculated by echanges too
But many player, producing trader not understood(included) that the prices of ores and mineral had an adjustment à So when you sew volumes exchanged for the ORE (not mineral) their prices) do not reflect their intrinsic value ex: 1 scordite = 2 tritanium + 1 pyrite.
You want to regulate it? For my part I think that it is not necessary because I makes mine the thought of Aristote: " the whole is superior to the sum of its constituents(components)"
And CCP does not have has to regulate the erring ways of the players on this point ;)
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Daedalus II
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Posted - 2009.04.29 13:43:00 -
[12]
My suggestion (if it really is positive to even out the mineral prices, which I'm not sure of yet):
Remove tier 1 items from the loot tables and replace multiple tier 1 items with one equally valuable higher tier item (not T2 though I think). As far as I know the higher tier items reprocess into roughly as much minerals as a tier 1 item? Thus the value of reprocessing the more expensive higher tier items goes down and the prices for high end minerals go up. This also opens up the market for those that would like to produce T1 items, as they won't be constantly outbid by mission runners.
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Sturdy Girl
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Posted - 2009.04.29 13:48:00 -
[13]
Any of these ought to help:
1) Halve the amount of tritanium required by most blueprints.
2) Remove all Meta-0 T1 loot drops.
3) Reduce the amount of minerals recieved by reprocessing.
Immediately, mining becomes more profitable.
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Daedalus II
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Posted - 2009.04.29 13:55:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Sturdy Girl Any of these ought to help:
1) Halve the amount of tritanium required by most blueprints.
2) Remove all Meta-0 T1 loot drops.
3) Reduce the amount of minerals recieved by reprocessing.
Immediately, mining becomes more profitable.
2 is pretty much what I was trying to say, but I must say I like 3 even more. Feels like a really simple and natural way of forcing the mineral flow from reprocessing towards refining. The nice thing is that CCP easily can change the reprocessing penalty by very small amounts (just a matter of changing a variable) so they can nudge it a bit, see if it helped, nudge it a bit more, see if it helped and so on. If they go too far they can just go back a bit again.
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Jonathan Calvert
Minmatar Empire Mining and Trade
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Posted - 2009.04.29 14:01:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Sturdy Girl Any of these ought to help:
1) Halve the amount of tritanium required by most blueprints.
2) Remove all Meta-0 T1 loot drops.
3) Reduce the amount of minerals recieved by reprocessing.
Immediately, mining becomes more profitable.
2 and 3 would be a good start, 1 might be too drastic. Theres no reason mission runners should be supplying such amounts of minerals.
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Hariya
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Posted - 2009.04.29 15:50:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Abulurd Boniface The problem is that mineral reclamation from loot is too profitable. Reduce the minerals from salvaging by 75% and you'll see the price of exotics jump up.
Not necessarily. It can also be that the demand is the problem. There is not enough demand for the higher end stuff, but the bpos for many things are very tritanium intensive. Just cut a few numbers to half, and we'll be just fine.
If you start touching the loot, then for game balance industrialists require extra taxing I guess
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Tsual
Minmatar Iikhelahii khulemah'lal
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Posted - 2009.04.29 16:28:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Tsual on 29/04/2009 16:28:39
Originally by: Jonathan Calvert
Originally by: Sturdy Girl Any of these ought to help:
1) Halve the amount of tritanium required by most blueprints.
2) Remove all Meta-0 T1 loot drops.
3) Reduce the amount of minerals recieved by reprocessing.
Immediately, mining becomes more profitable.
2 and 3 would be a good start, 1 might be too drastic. Theres no reason mission runners should be supplying such amounts of minerals.
this
(and, take megacyte for example database states:
Quote: An extremely rare mineral found in comets and very occasionally in asteroids that have traveled through gas clouds. Has unique explosive traits that make it very valuable in the armaments industry.
Now look through the bpos of ammunation, how many of them actually require megacyte for building.
Background vs Game reality.)
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silken mouth
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Posted - 2009.04.29 17:55:00 -
[18]
i like the idea of reduced reprocessing efficiency,as it is easy to implement and probably very effective.
eliminating meta-0 tech 1 loot drops is a good choice, too.
thanx for the constructive input
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