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EvEa Deva
State War Academy Caldari State
30
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Posted - 2012.05.08 22:54:00 -
[31] - Quote
A battleship cost 150 million now, a freaking drake is 56 million I would say the miners/indy people are winning this fight.
Its your sandbox to crap in BUT you have to smell it too.
On topic: sentry mining drones sounds cool to me |
Melodee619
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.05.08 22:55:00 -
[32] - Quote
AureoBroker wrote:Lady Spank wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:I like the idea, but there is no kill mails for suicide ganking drones. So you will never get any real support due to that. Make no mistake. They do not suicide gank to deal with bots or any of that. It is all about destroying high costing ships while risking nothing at all. They come for the kill mails and make no effort to distinguish between bots or actual human at the keyboard. LOL No Risk? They lose their ship every time they gank something. You sound like a moron. Suicide ganking is very dangerous and every time you even try it you lose something even if you are successful or not. And this, good sirs, is why pvpers are more often than not hilariously bad at economics. When i build a ship, i'm not "risking" my minerals disappear. It's not an hard concept. I can understand defending the right to suicide gank as a balancing and sandboxy factor in EVE, but thinking that suicide ganking is an activity that could be classified under "PVP" is hilarious.
How is it not pvp mate ?. In EVE it's meant to be an open Universe yes?, as in life most things come with risk, why should miners be allowed to be completely safe?. There really is no such thing as ganking in EVE anyway its all part of the game, an designed that way as we all know. The onus is on you the player to avoid getting killed. |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
125
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Posted - 2012.05.08 23:01:00 -
[33] - Quote
AureoBroker wrote:but thinking that suicide ganking is an activity that could be classified under "PVP" is hilarious. Oh? It must be classified as booster production then? Manufacturing? Invention?
No, it's PvP. Fuckin idiot There should be a rather awesome pic here |
Desert Ice78
Cobra Kai Dojo WHY so Seri0Us
101
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Posted - 2012.05.08 23:04:00 -
[34] - Quote
The whining about the rising cost of minerals and hence everything else has become well-nigh deafening in the past few days. Yet people still want the option of happly ganking miners when and where they please.
Well, no. You can't have it both ways. You all need to accept that either you continue to pay through the nose for everything, or else you let miners be miners and let them get on with their chosen profession.
That is all. I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
Melodee619
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.05.08 23:08:00 -
[35] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:The whining about the rising cost of minerals and hence everything else has become well-nigh deafening in the past few days. Yet people still want the option of happly ganking miners when and where they please.
Well, no. You can't have it both ways. You all need to accept that either you continue to pay through the nose for everything, or else you let miners be miners and let them get on with their chosen profession.
That is all.
So you want miners to be totally immune to EVE's central point of gameplay?...
I kill miners an yet I build ships, I am still making money so I dont see an issue. |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
125
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Posted - 2012.05.08 23:09:00 -
[36] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:The whining about the rising cost of minerals and hence everything else has become well-nigh deafening in the past few days. Yet people still want the option of happly ganking miners when and where they please.
Well, no. You can't have it both ways. You all need to accept that either you continue to pay through the nose for everything, or else you let miners be miners and let them get on with their chosen profession.
That is all. Nobody I know is bitching about high prices, but that's because we're all rich ass piratebears, and high prices just means more lulz when we blow up your expensive ship. There should be a rather awesome pic here |
Desert Ice78
Cobra Kai Dojo WHY so Seri0Us
101
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Posted - 2012.05.08 23:12:00 -
[37] - Quote
Melodee619 wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote:The whining about the rising cost of minerals and hence everything else has become well-nigh deafening in the past few days. Yet people still want the option of happly ganking miners when and where they please.
Well, no. You can't have it both ways. You all need to accept that either you continue to pay through the nose for everything, or else you let miners be miners and let them get on with their chosen profession.
That is all. So you want miners to be totally immune to EVE's central point of gameplay?... I kill miners an yet I build ships, I am still making money so I dont see an issue.
You build ships? And do you build everything else in game also? I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
Desert Ice78
Cobra Kai Dojo WHY so Seri0Us
101
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 23:14:00 -
[38] - Quote
Copine Callmeknau wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote:The whining about the rising cost of minerals and hence everything else has become well-nigh deafening in the past few days. Yet people still want the option of happly ganking miners when and where they please.
Well, no. You can't have it both ways. You all need to accept that either you continue to pay through the nose for everything, or else you let miners be miners and let them get on with their chosen profession.
That is all. Nobody I know is bitching about high prices, but that's because we're all rich ass piratebears, and high prices just means more lulz when we blow up your expensive ship.
If you wanted to blow up my expensive ship, you would have to find yourself a way out of your (fail wana-be pvp) hi-sec bubble, and go so far into nul-sec that if you don't remember to pack sunlight, you'll shat yourself. I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
Melodee619
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.05.08 23:15:00 -
[39] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:Melodee619 wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote:The whining about the rising cost of minerals and hence everything else has become well-nigh deafening in the past few days. Yet people still want the option of happly ganking miners when and where they please.
Well, no. You can't have it both ways. You all need to accept that either you continue to pay through the nose for everything, or else you let miners be miners and let them get on with their chosen profession.
That is all. So you want miners to be totally immune to EVE's central point of gameplay?... I kill miners an yet I build ships, I am still making money so I dont see an issue. You build ships? And do you build everything else in game also?
No, but I dont get killed either because I pay attention. What you lot want, is freedom to afk play an never be at risk :)... Take responsibility for yourselves an stop demanding CCP play for you. |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
125
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Posted - 2012.05.08 23:33:00 -
[40] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote:The whining about the rising cost of minerals and hence everything else has become well-nigh deafening in the past few days. Yet people still want the option of happly ganking miners when and where they please.
Well, no. You can't have it both ways. You all need to accept that either you continue to pay through the nose for everything, or else you let miners be miners and let them get on with their chosen profession.
That is all. Nobody I know is bitching about high prices, but that's because we're all rich ass piratebears, and high prices just means more lulz when we blow up your expensive ship. If you wanted to blow up my expensive ship, you would have to find yourself a way out of your (fail wana-be pvp) hi-sec bubble, and go so far into nul-sec that if you don't remember to pack sunlight, you'll shat yourself. Oh yeh, great wildlands, cool story bro. You must be hardcore to live that 'far' into nullsec
I don't live in hisec btw, I live in placid :p There should be a rather awesome pic here |
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Bootleg Jack
Potters Field
71
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Posted - 2012.05.08 23:48:00 -
[41] - Quote
The root issue has nothing to do with mining or miners.
There is so much disposable wealth in the game that people can afford to lose dozens of ships.
The risk model is hosed, people who can afford to lose that many ships are not actually taking any risk.
So essentially you have a part of the population participating in zero risk PvP with another part of the population who are so broke they cannot replace the ship they are flying. |
Desert Ice78
Cobra Kai Dojo WHY so Seri0Us
101
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 00:00:00 -
[42] - Quote
Copine Callmeknau wrote:Oh yeh, great wildlands, cool story bro. You must be hardcore to live that 'far' into nullsec
You'll have to go just a little bit further than that.
Copine Callmeknau wrote:I see you however have under 100 kills and a 5.0 sec status, maybe you should give up on forum PvP and just go back to ratting you cute widdle carebear
And yet I have murdered countless asteroids. Its the topic at hand, remember. I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
Melodee619
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.05.09 00:42:00 -
[43] - Quote
Bootleg Jack wrote:The root issue has nothing to do with mining or miners.
There is so much disposable wealth in the game that people can afford to lose dozens of ships.
The risk model is hosed, people who can afford to lose that many ships are not actually taking any risk.
So essentially you have a part of the population participating in zero risk PvP with another part of the population who are so broke they cannot replace the ship they are flying.
Hang on, why cant you the miner pay attention? why do you have to be able to afk mine?. You will NEVER die in EVE as a miner if you use your head an go find a nice quiet system to mine in.
This is 100% fact. Only reason you get killed is you mine in systems with 50 people in it, or your sitting 2 jumps out of Jita.... Stop being lazy an use your head. In 6 years I have died 5 times in Highsec, twice to Jihad 3 years ago when I lost 2 hulks, an rest to bad judgment on my part. |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
128
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 00:45:00 -
[44] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote:Oh yeh, great wildlands, cool story bro. You must be hardcore to live that 'far' into nullsec You'll have to go just a little bit further than that. I'll just leave this here...
Quote:I found Desert Ice78 for you. From: xxxxxxxxxx Sent: 2012.05.08 23:31
I've found your sleazebag.
He is in the 1C-953 system, T-W4L3 constellation of the Great Wildlands region.
With regards, There should be a rather awesome pic here |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
633
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 00:48:00 -
[45] - Quote
Bootleg Jack wrote:The root issue has nothing to do with mining or miners.
There is so much disposable wealth in the game that people can afford to lose dozens of ships. Well if the miners can afford to replace their hulks, meh I guess their risk is actually only when they are on their last hulk wth no money to buy another one ...
I never thought of it that way. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum Alliance 99000802
541
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 01:14:00 -
[46] - Quote
Would think reducing the yield and increasing the defenses of barges/exhumers would be a better solution. Though expanding mining drones wouldn't be bad. I would think that Heavys would yield more then sentries though. Free-áKugutsumen from censorship and end the bitterness. |
MadMuppet
Kerguelen Station
309
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 02:30:00 -
[47] - Quote
It is all too soon. The changes in mission loot tables and the loss of drone poop need time to realistically change the market. After THAT then the ideas can come to the table. While many proclaim the improved UI functionality is great, you make cargo management tedious. So many little things are being lost that this is shaping up to be another 'Incarna with Door' event. If CCP is at all being honest that it is listening to its players, they will put this on hold until it is better or they will address the issues before May 22. |
Conrad Makbure
Phoibe Enterprises
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 02:38:00 -
[48] - Quote
I fully support buffing the hell out of mining drones and overhauling mining ships for role stats. here, here sir. |
Katalci
Creative Cookie Procuring Veto Corp
73
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 03:07:00 -
[49] - Quote
This is a terrible idea. It serves no purpose -- mining yield/tank are already very well balanced; it's just that miners are too stupid to fit their ships properly.
Brooks Puuntai wrote:Would think reducing the yield and increasing the defenses of barges/exhumers would be a better solution. You can already do this by, you know, fitting your ship differently.
Bootleg Jack wrote:The root issue has nothing to do with mining or miners.
There is so much disposable wealth in the game that people can afford to lose dozens of ships.
The risk model is hosed, people who can afford to lose that many ships are not actually taking any risk.
So essentially you have a part of the population participating in zero risk PvP with another part of the population who are so broke they cannot replace the ship they are flying. You misunderstand the "risk" part of it. It doesn't matter if the gankers have much risk, because the reward is very slim (in terms of in-game tangible value), maybe a strip miner or two that'll sell for a few million. (And they do have risk; it's just that the risk is 100% -- you lose your ship every time. What makes you convert 100% to 0%, I have no idea.) It's a very, very low ISK/hour activity, worse than actual mining on average. You also risk failing to gank and get any reward at all.
The risk needs to come to the miners, whose ONLY risk is ganking while they continuously profit. |
Achtung Waffle
Nex quod Principatus SRS.
0
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Posted - 2012.05.09 04:40:00 -
[50] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:The whining about the rising cost of minerals and hence everything else has become well-nigh deafening in the past few days. Yet people still want the option of happly ganking miners when and where they please.
Well, no. You can't have it both ways. You all need to accept that either you continue to pay through the nose for everything, or else you let miners be miners and let them get on with their chosen profession.
That is all.
This is an excellent point. Every Hulkageddon raises the prices of anything and just about everything player-made due to the higher mineral costs. I can see the appeal of it but really, one has to be realistic about the consequences. |
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
641
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 04:49:00 -
[51] - Quote
Achtung Waffle wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote:The whining about the rising cost of minerals and hence everything else has become well-nigh deafening in the past few days. Yet people still want the option of happly ganking miners when and where they please.
Well, no. You can't have it both ways. You all need to accept that either you continue to pay through the nose for everything, or else you let miners be miners and let them get on with their chosen profession.
That is all. This is an excellent point. Every Hulkageddon raises the prices of anything and just about everything player-made due to the higher mineral costs. I can see the appeal of it but really, one has to be realistic about the consequences. All the people with tons of accounts out here don't mind so much because their mining isk per hour goes up (even adjusting for maybe being ganked, of course).
Apparently some guy multiboxes 20 hulks... wow Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
858
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 04:56:00 -
[52] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:* miners to mine in battleships
But you already can mine in battleships.
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Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
858
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 04:57:00 -
[53] - Quote
Achtung Waffle wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote:The whining about the rising cost of minerals and hence everything else has become well-nigh deafening in the past few days. Yet people still want the option of happly ganking miners when and where they please.
Well, no. You can't have it both ways. You all need to accept that either you continue to pay through the nose for everything, or else you let miners be miners and let them get on with their chosen profession.
That is all. This is an excellent point. Every Hulkageddon raises the prices of anything and just about everything player-made due to the higher mineral costs. I can see the appeal of it but really, one has to be realistic about the consequences.
You do realize that's a huge reason why a good number of us are doing this, right? Because driving up prices of everything is a good thing -- when you've stockpiled things to sell.
And hell, 70% of the price of every single Hulk is OTEC Technetium. So we have a distinct economic incentive to kill as many hulks as we can.
In short: Working as intended! :D |
Antisocial Malkavian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
74
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 05:33:00 -
[54] - Quote
Lady Spank wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:I like the idea, but there is no kill mails for suicide ganking drones. So you will never get any real support due to that. Make no mistake. They do not suicide gank to deal with bots or any of that. It is all about destroying high costing ships while risking nothing at all. They come for the kill mails and make no effort to distinguish between bots or actual human at the keyboard. LOL No Risk? They lose their ship every time they gank something. You sound like a moron. Suicide ganking is very dangerous and every time you even try it you lose something even if you are successful or not.
risk =/= business expense.
If its a definite expenditure thats not a risk, thats an expense
you got one part of that right though
Lady Spank wrote: You sound like a moron.
pointed it at the wrong person tho... try a mirror http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.2317/JKES0811.17.1 Bees That Drink Human Tears -- ITS SCIENCE!!! |
RubyPorto
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1483
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 05:36:00 -
[55] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Lady Spank wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:I like the idea, but there is no kill mails for suicide ganking drones. So you will never get any real support due to that. Make no mistake. They do not suicide gank to deal with bots or any of that. It is all about destroying high costing ships while risking nothing at all. They come for the kill mails and make no effort to distinguish between bots or actual human at the keyboard. LOL No Risk? They lose their ship every time they gank something. You sound like a moron. Suicide ganking is very dangerous and every time you even try it you lose something even if you are successful or not. risk =/= business expense. If its a definite expenditure thats not a risk, thats an expense you got one part of that right though Lady Spank wrote: You sound like a moron.
pointed it at the wrong person tho... try a mirror
The risk they face is the risk of a failed or unprofitable gank. Assuming they're running their ganking as a business. Single-Shard, Player Driven-áSandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special. |
Helicity Boson
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
456
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 05:39:00 -
[56] - Quote
And here I thought, I HAD the solution to mining.
Some might say it was...final.
Ok, that's pushing it too far, and not funny. |
RubyPorto
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1483
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 05:41:00 -
[57] - Quote
Helicity Boson wrote:And here I thought, I HAD the solution to mining. Some might say it was...final. Ok, that's pushing it too far, and not funny.
Well, what do people call Carebears in less ... moderated... circles than this one?
Fast Times at Godwin High, here we come. Single-Shard, Player Driven-áSandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special. |
Helicity Boson
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
456
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 05:47:00 -
[58] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Helicity Boson wrote:And here I thought, I HAD the solution to mining. Some might say it was...final. Ok, that's pushing it too far, and not funny. Well, what do people call Carebears in less ... moderated... circles than this one? Fast Times at Godwin High, here we come.
They pretty much call them carebears. Sometimes they add some colourful expletive as an adjective.
I don't think any intelligent players actually dislike carebears, they dislike whiny, lazy and uneducated ones. i.e. the ones who actually manage to die to hulkageddon or burn jita despite the massive effort that goes into publicizing the event.
No industrialist or miner of good quality and with a sharp mind should dislike these things; rather they benefit from them in a variety of (highly profitable) ways. |
RubyPorto
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1483
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 05:52:00 -
[59] - Quote
Helicity Boson wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Helicity Boson wrote:And here I thought, I HAD the solution to mining. Some might say it was...final. Ok, that's pushing it too far, and not funny. Well, what do people call Carebears in less ... moderated... circles than this one? Fast Times at Godwin High, here we come. They pretty much call them carebears. Sometimes they add some colourful expletive as an adjective. I don't think any intelligent players actually dislike carebears, they dislike whiny, lazy and uneducated ones. i.e. the ones who actually manage to die to hulkageddon or burn jita despite the massive effort that goes into publicizing the event. No industrialist or miner of good quality and with a sharp mind should dislike these things; rather they benefit from them in a variety of (highly profitable) ways.
Maybe I come from the more colorful end of Null. Oh well.
As to the rest, 100% agreed.
I know plenty of die hard carebears who I am proud to call friends, plenty more who I respect, and then there are the carebears active on the forums who are mostly the whiny/lazy/uneducated ones you mention. Single-Shard, Player Driven-áSandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special. |
AureoBroker
Natural Inventions
37
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 09:40:00 -
[60] - Quote
While i hold no hope about honorable engagements and such (it's part of the EVE beauty having the lack of those), it's SUPPLY DISRUPTION, which would be qualified under "market" and not under "pvp". You're engaging in an activity which is VERY akin to ratting. People won't shoot back in any form. Won't react. The outcome of the activity is expected with less than 1% of variance. Now, excuse me for that, but i thought pvp was about surviving AND killing. The simple fact that you're interacting with another player does not make it PVP, unless any market activity (be it on the supply or demand side) is considered pvp. |
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