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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2009.05.02 00:38:00 -
[1]
First, yes.. station got camped (wasn't as I docked 3mins ago) and upon undock - although in a fast small inty - I got pwned by a remote sensor-boosted BS with webbing drones.
Now I would like to discuss game mechanics to get out of that OR more importantly to avoid it, if possible and compare it with the situation, when you jump into another system.
When you jump into another system, your intel upfront is reduced.. all you have is the map with the relevant info:
- average pilots in space last 30mins
- escape pods destroyed last hour
- jumps in the last hour
- number of pilots docked and active
- ships destroyed in the last hour
When you now enter the system:
- you're placed at a random spot around the incoming gate, with a minimal distance of 15km (depending on gate). So any aggressor who isn't by chance right next to you needs to overcome that distance
- you're cloacked for 30seconds and can decide what to do next
Now let's compare this with undocking. From the map you get the same intel as above and on top of that, you get a clear count of possible aggressors in system with local and their names. But that's it. If you now undock you face the following situation:
- you appear at a fixed spot, depending on station
- you're visible to others the moment you appear.. but depending on lag/computer you have some 1-x seconds blindness, during you're unable to judge the situation
- you can't re-dock for ~20 seconds
My argumentation now is as following: When I enter a new system I should have a worse chance of getting aggressed then when undocking from a station in the system I'm in.
TL;DR: I would like to have some kind of intel tool (besides an alt outside the station) which allows me at least the same chances to overcome aggressors as I have when I enter another system.
Thanks for your time reading this and any intput you can give.
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Yuki Mitzawa
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Posted - 2009.05.02 01:48:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Yuki Mitzawa on 02/05/2009 01:51:17 Beware of the Jerk named Ec Cade, he does this. He hides in the base exit and justifies his status of jerk. Personally I feel they should just get rid of the 20 second delay, and extend the radius that you can dock. So if a jerk (see above) attacks you, you can escape back into the base. Even more desirable is instant kill sentry guns (say 200k damage per shot) that kill pirates (player pirates) on sight so they have to maintain a respectable (say 50km) range from the Station.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2009.05.02 01:53:00 -
[3]
Throwing in some ideas of others I found so far: Source: Change of Docking and Jump Timers
Originally by: Wet Ferret ... If you really want to improve undocking mechanics, just make them work like stargates... immersion be damned. I've always wanted to see this change anyway. Come out of the station invulnerable, cloaked and at a totally random location 12-15kms out of docking range. Makes undocking games riskier and makes station camping a total crapshoot. Fun for all!
Or, just below: Source: Change of Docking and Jump Timers Originally by: Night Doc Imagine yourselves x years in the future when humaninty reach stars.
Imagine we have Outposts
Could you ever imagine that we will not see what is outside the outpost before undocking?. No sensors in an outpost? No "windows" to look through? No info for the pilot undocking? This is just stupid and has no sense even in a game (unless poor or unfinish design, ofc).
Throwing yourself blind in the space, come on... even our very baby ISS has windows. ...
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Lucas Avidius
Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.05.02 01:53:00 -
[4]
I agree, if simply for the fact that no one should be penalized for the limitations of the internet and lag, which is why a lot of us are blind for half of the first 30 seconds we undock.
I suggest making undocking more like jumping, have a fixed point X KM off the stations undock point and have undocking players randomly spawn, cloaked within that sphere.
Would help for reducing congestion at heavy traffic stations as well.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2009.05.02 02:04:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Yuki Mitzawa ...
Sorry, I have no problem being attacked when I undock. But I want a fair chance compared to the current mechanics when I jump into a system.
If I would - up on undocking - end in the same situation I end up jumping into a system I wouldn't complain.
But when I apply current udocking mechanics to jumping into another system, I get this:
- you always appear in the same spot at the gate
- you decloak instantaneous
- you wouldn't be allowed to jump back for ~20 secs
Who in his right mind would still travel around in low/null under such conditions? This mechanic simply would destroy most of travel down there..
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Darwin's Market
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Posted - 2009.05.02 03:48:00 -
[6]
I disagree, if you won't fight how else am I to catch you? CCP messed up the gates so you'd be eliminating non-consensual pvp in empire with this.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2009.05.02 04:55:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Darwin's Market I disagree, if you won't fight how else am I to catch you? CCP messed up the gates so you'd be eliminating non-consensual pvp in empire with this.
Fight? How's that a fight when I undock and the moment I can finally see something am already locked and tackled? That's not fighting, that's like going voluntarily to the butcher the moment you click "undock".
As I said.. change jump-in-system mechanics to the same conditions and I wont say a word.. than we have an even level playing field.
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Tomin Highborn
Minmatar No Salvation
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Posted - 2009.05.02 08:07:00 -
[8]
well since you cant be targeted for 30 seconds if your lag is that bad stay in high sec until you get better internet. that said there is some thing they can do to help in jita with people bumpin off other people when trying to warp off the station. that is to have multipule undock points this would also help you with your boo hoo dont want to pvp in low sec. it would make is so they would have to guess where you were going to undock from and then also get a lock on you before warping off.
oh and on a side not you can not make insta warps off a jump gate buecause you have to get up to speed but you can off a station, so if you are going to be docking and undocking from the same station a bunch make some instas off the station.
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari Endemic Aggression Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.05.02 08:41:00 -
[9]
The problem with current undocking stuff is that if you are flying certain ship classes you are outside of docking range after re-dock delay thing and you cannot warp fast enough it's pretty hilarious to be honest.
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Yuki Mitzawa
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Posted - 2009.05.02 08:57:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Yuki Mitzawa on 02/05/2009 08:58:02
Originally by: Darwin's Market ... eliminating non-consensual pvp in empire with this.
This is a good thing! Some people don't like to be ambushed by JERKS who have no life and try to justify thier worthlessness by attacking people who are helpless in full sight of the inept authorities. The best suggestion is what I suggested, make Stations "Anti-Pirate zones"; any Pirate (-3.0 rep or lower) is automatically attacked by massive firepower if they enter closer than 70km of the station. Since when do you leave a Station defenseless in space?
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Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente Imperial Tau Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.05.02 09:34:00 -
[11]
guys, when you are in station you should be aware of the amount of risk the system you are in represents, meaning you should not be in a retrieve in a low-null sec station. You will probably be in your combat ship. I think unless there are 30 people camping the station your tank should be able to last for 20 seconds, it takes 5-10 seconds for enemy BS just to target you, 2-3 seconds for pilot to react and click target, then fire, meaning you tank has to last 14 seconds max. I think currently it is fine. Hm... |
Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.05.02 10:12:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Yuki Mitzawa Some people don't like to be ambushed by JERKS who have no life and try to justify thier worthlessness by attacking people who are helpless in full sight of the inept authorities.
You mean some JERKS those are argueing about other peoples playstyle of an MMO game really involving other players?
If you are helpless dont be in dangerous areas, simple as that.
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Galvatine
Caldari Dark Materials Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2009.05.02 10:19:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Yuki Mitzawa Edited by: Yuki Mitzawa on 02/05/2009 08:58:02
Originally by: Darwin's Market ... eliminating non-consensual pvp in empire with this.
This is a good thing! Some people don't like to be ambushed by JERKS who have no life and try to justify thier worthlessness by attacking people who are helpless in full sight of the inept authorities. The best suggestion is what I suggested, make Stations "Anti-Pirate zones"; any Pirate (-3.0 rep or lower) is automatically attacked by massive firepower if they enter closer than 70km of the station. Since when do you leave a Station defenseless in space?
This is not helly kitty online. People that shoot you are not jerks, it just means you have something they want. Protect yourself and you will have less issues.
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