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Valeronx
Celestial Horizon Corp. I.C.C Industrial Drive Yards
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Posted - 2009.05.04 06:55:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona Why do npcs structures cause aggro when they cant be damaged?
In my opinion, I think it's to avoid people trying to do things like setting a group of Smartbombing ( or other AOE modules ) ships at the Undock from a station or in a cluster in line from Gate to Gate in a well traveled system. It leaves a 'clear area' around things to give players a chance to dock, or undock or jump and warp out.
In another thread, you mentioned being de-cloaked by the Beacon while sneaking into a mission. If the Beacon was not there, a player might leave an Alt in a throwaway ship there as a "Gatekeeper", a cheap ship with a rack of active SB to pop someone trying to sneak into a mission. A cheap ship would be worth the loss just for the warning given, and the possible kill on a Cov-ops.
I think this rule was placed in game when ships did not undock 'at speed' from stations, and when gating tended to clump ships together in a tiny blob.
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Infinity Ziona
Minmatar Five-Killers
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Posted - 2009.05.04 07:18:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Einzei Gall Capitals in high-sec would be of no use, simply because the sovereign force deploys cynosural system jammers to control whom can create entry points for capital fleets in their systems.
And the stations or arrays that would allow capital ship construction in low-sec /0.0 is disabled by those same sovereign forces to keep their space for their own.
Repair drones should be able to fix me up though... i guess you can assign them to a teammate though and have him repair you, am i right?
That's a fictional thing though. When they first came out they could and were allowed in high sec.
Not sure about the teammate thing.
Originally by: Valeronx
Originally by: Infinity Ziona Why do npcs structures cause aggro when they cant be damaged?
In my opinion, I think it's to avoid people trying to do things like setting a group of Smartbombing ( or other AOE modules ) ships at the Undock from a station or in a cluster in line from Gate to Gate in a well traveled system. It leaves a 'clear area' around things to give players a chance to dock, or undock or jump and warp out.
In another thread, you mentioned being de-cloaked by the Beacon while sneaking into a mission. If the Beacon was not there, a player might leave an Alt in a throwaway ship there as a "Gatekeeper", a cheap ship with a rack of active SB to pop someone trying to sneak into a mission. A cheap ship would be worth the loss just for the warning given, and the possible kill on a Cov-ops.
I think this rule was placed in game when ships did not undock 'at speed' from stations, and when gating tended to clump ships together in a tiny blob.
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Nah you can still do that afaik.
Splash was in game from the very beginning. Missiles would hit stations and gates and torps made smartbomb like damage that caused aggro. I did the smartbomb outside station a few times in Jita and Yulai when it was the hub.
You go instant outlaw too if you get a couple of pods so its not something people would do randomly for lols.
Could be right but then simply disabling smart bombs if they're gonna hit a structure or station would be simpler. Ganking Buddhist Nun |
Qual
Gallente Cornexant Research
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Posted - 2009.05.04 07:21:00 -
[63]
Actaully the asnwer to all of them is simple: Game balance.
Doesn't really allways have to make sense, just need to prevent the game from imploding due to some silly possibility to misuse a mechanic.
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
Digital Solaris
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Posted - 2009.05.04 07:45:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Qual
Doesn't really allways have to make sense, just need to prevent the game from imploding due to some silly possibility to misuse a mechanic.
Now, we have gotten to the bottom as to why Infinity Ziona is actually crying about it, as it is surely obvious to any and everyone. Painfully obvious if you happen to be Infinity Ziona... |
Peter Powers
FinFleet KenZoku
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Posted - 2009.05.04 08:48:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
- Capital ships not being built in high sec.
Well, capital ships in highsec == wtfpwnbbq in a "safe"-zone
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
- Capital ships not being allowed to be flown in high sec.
not entirely true, there are highsec capitals, there are just some restrictions what those may or may not do, pretty much out of the same reasons why they cant be build there anymore (hint: even concord needs a bit longer to bring a cap down)
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
- Indestructible NPC structures being affected by aoe weapons (and subsequent nerfing of cool weapons like torpedo aoe).
yeah, they shouldnt be indestructible.
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
- Bubbles in high sec and low sec.
give noobs a chance?
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
- Location agents having a 30 minute reuse delay. - Location agents having a delay on location.
Well otherwise you could find out where someone is at any given time - which would be a bit overpowered.
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
- Aggression timers at gates.
yeah those can be annoying, but balancing wise it makes sense, otherwise alot of battles would end in random jumping... another solution then timers would be a device that blocks your ability to use gates.
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
- Gang bonuses not applying to the owner of the skills unless ganged
uhm.. why would getting a bonus for a group make sense without a group?
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
- Repair drones not being able to repair owner ships
/signed
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Theres a crapload more stupid rules that make no sense at all. What reasons can you see for these rules to exist?
game balance?
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.05.04 08:48:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Qual Actaully the asnwer to all of them is simple: Game balance.
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Typhado3
Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.05.04 10:14:00 -
[67]
they all make sense to me
ccp fix mining agent missions % pls |
Armoured C
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.05.04 10:25:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Armoured C on 04/05/2009 10:27:45
that is why you only a month old nub ebay character
peace out
twitter blog
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5pinDizzy
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Posted - 2009.05.04 11:24:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona Reported every non-constructive /trolling post in this thread since thats what I am supposed to do apparently. Keep posting your tripe. Will keep reporting. Gonna start on reporting on the 8 page one in a sec.
Yeah, also, don't forgot to also tell your mom that there are people on the internet being mean to you.
I think you should turn off your computer and sink it into a bath of bleach for a few hours to wash away all the nasty words.
if you disagree with me then you should probably post a response and stop reading my signature. |
Cypherous
Minmatar Liberty Rogues Rally Against Evil
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Posted - 2009.05.04 11:56:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
7. Once again a gang of 10 with a bonus gets 10 times the bonus of the gang of 1. Thats 10 times BETTER then the gang of 1.
Which part of this is an MMO do you not understand, just bring friends they won't balance it so that you get 10 times the bonus just because they outnumber you 10 to 1 get over it and learn to play with others kthx --------- Liberty Rogues Site[/center]
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Lilla Kharn
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.05.04 11:57:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Lilla Kharn on 04/05/2009 12:01:05 You're the one who had us war dec'd for like 2 months and didn't fire one shot and stayed down in Minmatar space the whole time.
And as it was said before, repair drones shouldn't be able to repair your own ship because it's reppers without any slots or cap use. Why not fill all slots with hardeners and then sit there? Super tank anyone? ------------------------------- "Only the dead have seen the end of war" - Plato |
Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.05.04 12:04:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
- Gang bonuses not applying to the owner of the skills unless ganged - Repair drones not being able to repair owner ships
These I agree totally!
"The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of goldcrap"
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Infinity Ziona
Minmatar Five-Killers
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Posted - 2009.05.04 12:06:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Cypherous
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
7. Once again a gang of 10 with a bonus gets 10 times the bonus of the gang of 1. Thats 10 times BETTER then the gang of 1.
Which part of this is an MMO do you not understand, just bring friends they won't balance it so that you get 10 times the bonus just because they outnumber you 10 to 1 get over it and learn to play with others kthx
Ummm? What? Ganking Buddhist Nun |
Infinity Ziona
Minmatar Five-Killers
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Posted - 2009.05.04 12:08:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Lilla Kharn Edited by: Lilla Kharn on 04/05/2009 12:01:05 You're the one who had us war dec'd for like 2 months and didn't fire one shot and stayed down in Minmatar space the whole time.
And as it was said before, repair drones shouldn't be able to repair your own ship because it's reppers without any slots or cap use. Why not fill all slots with hardeners and then sit there? Super tank anyone?
Who are you? Mostly Harmless? Like I said to whoever it was that asked. I decced you because you occasionally had a few people floating around heimatar while I was killing SNA. Ganking Buddhist Nun |
Faife
Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.05.04 14:59:00 -
[75]
i too am trolled. --
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DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
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Posted - 2009.05.04 15:15:00 -
[76]
Edited by: DigitalCommunist on 04/05/2009 15:17:43 Edited by: DigitalCommunist on 04/05/2009 15:16:56
Originally by: Infinity Ziona Anyone able to explain the reasons for the following STUPID RULES:
- Capital ships not being built in high sec. - Capital ships not being allowed to be flown in high sec. - Indestructible NPC structures being affected by aoe weapons (and subsequent nerfing of cool weapons like torpedo aoe). - Bubbles in high sec and low sec. - Location agents having a 30 minute reuse delay. - Location agents having a delay on location. - Aggression timers at gates. - Gang bonuses not applying to the owner of the skills unless ganged - Repair drones not being able to repair owner ships
Theres a crapload more stupid rules that make no sense at all. What reasons can you see for these rules to exist?
1. Capitals in highsec is not only an RP thing, but a game design decision. They don't want a newbie zone to be susceptible to the highest end warfare. Would you like a Carrier hotdrop in your small little empire war? And furthermore, that rule was decided when there were no POS in high sec at all. Even though there are now, lowsec makes Capital movements restricted, which adds some topographical detail to an otherwise indifferent travel mechanic. High sec POS can be balanced for security by removing all but industry arrays and letting fleets attack/defend them.
2. They aren't affected, but it's still aggression which has the appropriate NPC response. Even if it hampers AOE weapons, it makes sense in both RP and gameplay terms.
3. Bubbles in high sec and low sec are not denied based on game rules CCP decided, they simply don't give a **** about anything like corp wars or standings. In their current format, you'd be able to warp scramble people at gates with no penalty. Even if there was a penalty, neutrals would then be able to get you killed. Without a war exclusion update, the mechanics don't support bubbles in empire. Also, when their mechanics were written, they were a really high end PVP tool in 0.0. Both bubbles and ways to evade them have proliferated.
4. Not all locations have 30 minute delay. The delay is there as a balancing factor against scan speed. lvl 4's return result in 2.5min. If you could keep using them you could get real time information on someone. Yes, it would be nice, but one alt could screw up a lot of fleet maneuvers even before they're screwed up by local chat.
5. See above, real time info is great for the player but there's no reason why they should have it. It makes sense that if you're going to get tabs on someone's location through social contacts and networks, you'll get info on where they were a few minutes ago. Even if it was real-time, you couldn't do much if the target was traveling.
6. Have you played EVE without aggression timers? I have, and it sucks. The only thing that's arbitrary about them is a 60 second timer, when not all ships benefit the same. Supertanked battleships can escape easily in small fights while frigates are usually owned by anything in the same time.
7. This makes no sense.
8. Because they're logistic/team tools, otherwise drone ships would have an extra repairer that took no cap. This might be fine if drone ships had no other offense, but you could still use neutralizers, EW, and turrets to do damage to the enemy.
Really, most of these are explained by common sense. I'm surprised people don't think through things a bit better.
If you want an example of arbitrary rules without gameplay or software benefits, look at alliances.
Why 1 billion to make one? Why do they get a custom logo? Why can you have one-corp alliances? Why does it cost 50mil to declare on one? Why can only they claim sovereignty? Why are the upkeep fees so trivial by comparison?
Oh right, because CCP thought there would only be a few major alliances in the game.
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FlyinS
Caldari Planetary Industry and Trade Organization
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Posted - 2009.05.04 15:34:00 -
[77]
IZ, outside of your obvious attitude issues, there's a huge reason you're not getting as many "real" responses to your question as you would like. It's because everyone knows you're only looking for answers that support the way you believe it should be and that way is whatever makes it easier for you to get kills on mission runners and miners in high sec. You're very unaccepting of any response that contradicts your own opinion. And of course, there's the attitude we all know and love.
Now on to one of the points, as I think the others have been sufficiently shot down, and shot down well.
Repair drones. The reason several people have given in here that they cannot repair yourself is because it's a capless free rep on yourself. I may be missing something here but how does that make it different than EWAR Jamming drones, other than the repping will never miss? Trust me that I can see the self-repping drones as being grossly overpowered, but I don't know that the reason that's being given is the proper one.
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Galen Naranek
Outland Research and Development Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.05.04 16:10:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona Anyone able to explain the reasons for the following STUPID RULES:
- Silly List
Theres a crapload more stupid rules that make no sense at all. What reasons can you see for these rules to exist?
None of these qualifies for stupid. But then, stupid is in the eye of the beholder. I have my own short list that I think are MUCH stupider . . .
1) Can't use bombs in low sec 2) 2 hours to unanchor a large POS tower 3) Having your ship ganked in empire space gives kill rights, but being podded doesn't 4) Not being able to contract a damaged item (just give the recipient a warning for crying out loud...) 5) Not being able to destroy a jump clone remotely
If I am mistaken about any of the above then I withdraw the charge of stupidity...
___________________________________ That which kills me makes me deader |
FlyinS
Caldari Planetary Industry and Trade Organization
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Posted - 2009.05.04 16:29:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Galen Naranek
None of these qualifies for stupid. But then, stupid is in the eye of the beholder. I have my own short list that I think are MUCH stupider . . .
1) Can't use bombs in low sec 2) 2 hours to unanchor a large POS tower 3) Having your ship ganked in empire space gives kill rights, but being podded doesn't 4) Not being able to contract a damaged item (just give the recipient a warning for crying out loud...) 5) Not being able to destroy a jump clone remotely
If I am mistaken about any of the above then I withdraw the charge of stupidity...
Considering the amount of scamming that already goes on with contracts I would say I have to disagree with #4 for that reason alone.
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Qual
Gallente Cornexant Research
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Posted - 2009.05.04 16:35:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Galen Naranek
4) Not being able to contract a damaged item (just give the recipient a warning for crying out loud...) 5) Not being able to destroy a jump clone remotely
Oh, yes! These are really annoying! Number 4 beeing my personal number uno hate bug/feature of the game.
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.05.04 16:38:00 -
[81]
lolz OP wants bubbles in low sec(Im not even addressing high sec)
learn to play noob
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Taedrin
Gallente Golden Mechanization Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.05.04 16:41:00 -
[82]
Just going to rehash the (rational) responses to the OP:
Capitals not being allowed in high-sec has SEVERAL valid reasons. First and foremost - capital ships are NOT meant to be solo pwnmobiles. If you could construct them in high sec, then people would be able to use them in relative safety, free to run missions in invincible ships.
High sec is also considered to be a "newbie" area which is kinder to newer players. Allowing capital ships to take part in high sec wars would be too overpowered for veteran corps over newbie corps.
Also, back in the day, capital ships could tank CONCORD. This was before CONCORD was given 100% ECM and insta neuts.
THe main reason, however, for limiting capital ships to low sec/0.0 is to encourage multiplayer game play over solo game play. This is also highlighted by capital ships requiring a cyno to jump to - you can't move them without the help from another character. By limiting them to low sec, capital ship pilots have to risk their safety every time they undock. In high sec, they would be protected by CONCORD which grants them 99% immunity against destruction. CCP wants capital ships to be a strategic asset which must be used carefully and with discretion. Use them too carelessly, and... well, let's just say that you need more than honor to tank your dreadnought. Anyways, the end result is that capital ships are only supposed to be used when they have a proper support fleet to back them up. In high sec, they would be protected by CONCORD and not need support, which is something CCP doesn't want.
Certain players are allowed to keep their capital ships in high sec because they do not abuse them. Also, CCP would have to face a massive threadnought if they were to ever to remove Chribba's veldnought.
-Bubbles not being in high sec or low sec is to make empire space more "newbie friendly", and is also a means to prevent massive 0.0 alliance from laying claim to empire space. The amount of territorial control that bubbles allow is something that CCP does not want in low/high sec where they believe that players should be allowed to roam.
-Aggression timers at gates are a punishment that CCP places on pirates. The philosophy here is that if you "can't do the time, then don't do the crime". Players with low sec status are restricted in where they can go in exchange for their lawlessness and lack of morals.
-gang bonuses and repair drones are limited to use in gangs because CCP wants to encourage multiplayer game play over solo game play.
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Butzewutze
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Posted - 2009.05.04 16:58:00 -
[83]
1/10
ebaynubs posting teh awesum ideas how to change the game -> failed.
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Armoured C
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.05.04 17:01:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Faife i too am trolled.
ill protect you ... EWWWW your in FOFF run away \/
twitter blog
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Learol
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Posted - 2009.05.04 17:36:00 -
[85]
LOL: Posters in thread think eve has balance.
A thousand player corp full of 2003 members can wardec a corp of ten 2009's and you still keep up with this "OH NOES! DONT SCREW BALANCE!"
Give up, bring back caps, there will always be a loosing side and there's ****all your going to do about it. |
Jobby
Minmatar UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2009.05.04 17:57:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona Why dont' these forums have useful moderators?
lol. I mean...rofl.
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Xiao LoPan
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Posted - 2009.05.05 02:21:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Xiao LoPan on 05/05/2009 02:22:24
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Xiao LoPan
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Posted - 2009.05.05 02:26:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Originally by: Crewman Jenkins I don't think a leadership bonus should apply to a gang of one...Its a leadership bonus.
So you don't think someone skilled in leadership would be more talented then someone not skilled in leadership? A manager of a fortune 500 is only a great manager when the cleaner walks by? I don't think so. The gang bonus scales in relation to the number of people in the gang naturally anyway.
I think it is more like coaching. How many times have you seen an athletics coach get world class athletic performances out of their students, while they are unable to perform those same activities on even a novice level themself.
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