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Leon Caedo
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Posted - 2009.05.11 04:14:00 -
[211]
I don't think what the OP did is right. However:
Do you honestly think the GMs solely based their decision on what the OP told them?
They would be pretty craptastic if they did not: - look into all recent eve mails - look for any forum posts - look at all relevant convo's - review the contract
There is no 'new information' that you can give them that they did not already have access to.
GM 101 is don't believe what either party tells you. Believe what the logs show. Obviously both parties involved are going to be biased and skew the facts.
I'm sorry but I highly doubt the GMs will overturn their previous ruling. I hope they do, but I will lose all remaining respect I had for CCP's customer service.
石の上にも三年。 |
Lana Torrin
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
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Posted - 2009.05.11 04:17:00 -
[212]
Originally by: Leon Caedo I don't think what the OP did is right. However:
Do you honestly think the GMs solely based their decision on what the OP told them?
They would be pretty craptastic if they did not: - look into all recent eve mails - look for any forum posts - look at all relevant convo's - review the contract
There is no 'new information' that you can give them that they did not already have access to.
GM 101 is don't believe what either party tells you. Believe what the logs show. Obviously both parties involved are going to be biased and skew the facts.
I'm sorry but I highly doubt the GMs will overturn their previous ruling. I hope they do, but I will lose all remaining respect I had for CCP's customer service.
Get out.. You didnt snipe AND you made a worth while post.
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Lord Windu
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.05.11 04:32:00 -
[213]
Originally by: Leon Caedo
GM 101 is don't believe what either party tells you. Believe what the logs show.
But But, the logs, they show nothing ☺ A Kirra Liu Presentation. Will give cyber for GTC ☺ |
XXhermesXX
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Posted - 2009.05.11 04:34:00 -
[214]
Which means nothing is wrong.
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Lana Torrin
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
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Posted - 2009.05.11 04:35:00 -
[215]
Originally by: XXhermesXX Which means nothing is wrong.
PASS Pick up your GMs hat and badge on your way to your cubical.
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Trellish
The Perfect Storm Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2009.05.11 04:52:00 -
[216]
Originally by: Lord Windu
Originally by: Leon Caedo
GM 101 is don't believe what either party tells you. Believe what the logs show.
But But, the logs, they show nothing
WIN! This made me lol.
As to the greater issue. Honestly, I'm not that surprised the decision could go this way... sucks to be the guy on the loosing end of this though. The only reason I'm not suprised is that while there are significant protections re: character scams... they sorta involve using the official process for character transfers right? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this scam only possible because the official process wasn't used?
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Lady Cynosural
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Posted - 2009.05.11 06:57:00 -
[217]
Originally by: Kaptain Klo
Originally by: Lady Cynosural
How exactly do you know what the ruling was based on - considering it was made only yesterday?
They took 6 days to come to a decision, so no doubt it was escalated to senior GMs who have decided on the issue. Accept it!
Because the reason given to me, and the information you gave, did not encompass the whole story :). What do you have to worry about though? You think you're in the clear ^_-
Moreover, it was a different GM who responded to my petition, leading me to believe that they weren't linked (I recieved my answer on thursday).
How do you know what information I gave?
Are you mad enough to think that they base their decisions solely on what people tell them?
Also, do you think that the GMs work completely individually and do not discuss such important petitions with their seniors, and come to a decision completely alone and irrespective of any other ongoing petitions from other involved parties with no discussion at all? If so..
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Lord Windu
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.05.11 07:49:00 -
[218]
Wait, it just occurred to me that this could have been an epic troll. I am really hoping it is, there was no scam, just lot's of people *****ing about one. Oh well, I live in hope. ☺ A Kirra Liu Presentation. Will give cyber for GTC ☺ |
Dzil
Caldari Second Quadrant Ice Division
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Posted - 2009.05.11 13:41:00 -
[219]
Originally by: Lord Windu Wait, it just occurred to me that this could have been an epic troll. I am really hoping it is, there was no scam, just lot's of people *****ing about one. Oh well, I live in hope.
It's possible, but I doubt it. If you look at Lady Cyno's post history (which is quite short), you'll find she's been in another scam as well. And Everybruce is right there fluffing it up. I wouldn't be at all surprised if his character was attempting to lift some free isk out of some poor blind soul's pocket.
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Benedikt Miloslav
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Posted - 2009.05.11 14:07:00 -
[220]
Edited by: Benedikt Miloslav on 11/05/2009 14:09:02
Originally by: Dzil
Originally by: Lord Windu Wait, it just occurred to me that this could have been an epic troll. I am really hoping it is, there was no scam, just lot's of people *****ing about one. Oh well, I live in hope.
It's possible, but I doubt it. If you look at Lady Cyno's post history (which is quite short), you'll find she's been in another scam as well. And Everybruce is right there fluffing it up. I wouldn't be at all surprised if his character was attempting to lift some free isk out of some poor blind soul's pocket.
As I negotiated with the 'victim' before, I find it hard to believe that this is fake. Either way, I'm starting to hope Everybruce isn't punished for this - a new option for scamming would be nice, and this guy ought to have a lesson taught to him.
Edit; What I don't get is why he has bid for another character (16b IIRC) while this thing is still going. How did you get that ISK? Or are you just hoping you're gonna get the 17.5b back so soon?
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Dzil
Caldari Second Quadrant Ice Division
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Posted - 2009.05.11 14:20:00 -
[221]
I agree - I have a hard time sympathizing with someone that pads their case with -I'll quit, and take my friends with me-!
As for the victim - who knows. Maybe he has a wealthy uncle. I would hope he isn't making bids on characters with isk he doesn't have, although that too wouldn't really be against the current rules, would it? Maybe he joined the dark side.
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Kaptain Klo
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Posted - 2009.05.11 14:42:00 -
[222]
Originally by: Benedikt Miloslav Edited by: Benedikt Miloslav on 11/05/2009 14:09:02
Originally by: Dzil
Originally by: Lord Windu Wait, it just occurred to me that this could have been an epic troll. I am really hoping it is, there was no scam, just lot's of people *****ing about one. Oh well, I live in hope.
It's possible, but I doubt it. If you look at Lady Cyno's post history (which is quite short), you'll find she's been in another scam as well. And Everybruce is right there fluffing it up. I wouldn't be at all surprised if his character was attempting to lift some free isk out of some poor blind soul's pocket.
As I negotiated with the 'victim' before, I find it hard to believe that this is fake. Either way, I'm starting to hope Everybruce isn't punished for this - a new option for scamming would be nice, and this guy ought to have a lesson taught to him.
Edit; What I don't get is why he has bid for another character (16b IIRC) while this thing is still going. How did you get that ISK? Or are you just hoping you're gonna get the 17.5b back so soon?
You read that post right? I'm completely up-front with the individuals, nor am I overbidding anyone in those threads. That said, when/if I get the isk back, I need options for a character. Thus far I've confirmed 2 characters which are willing to accept a price I can pay, and both understand that they're free to keep looking or find better opporunities.
All that said, I'm surprised at the venom I've recieved for thinking about this in economic terms. Though I suppose working in an industry where the customer is always right and repeat customers are god, my views may be a bit skewed.
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Kaptain Klo
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Posted - 2009.05.11 14:44:00 -
[223]
Petition udpated: GM retracted intial ruling, and is now attempting to contact the seller.
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Sun Clausewitz
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Posted - 2009.05.11 15:00:00 -
[224]
Originally by: Kaptain Klo Petition udpated: GM retracted intial ruling, and is now attempting to contact the seller.
Well well well, things are starting to get interesting
Pick Three: Caldari/PVP/Solo/Success |
Benedikt Miloslav
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Posted - 2009.05.11 15:00:00 -
[225]
Originally by: Kaptain Klo
Originally by: Benedikt Miloslav Edited by: Benedikt Miloslav on 11/05/2009 14:09:02
Originally by: Dzil
Originally by: Lord Windu Wait, it just occurred to me that this could have been an epic troll. I am really hoping it is, there was no scam, just lot's of people *****ing about one. Oh well, I live in hope.
It's possible, but I doubt it. If you look at Lady Cyno's post history (which is quite short), you'll find she's been in another scam as well. And Everybruce is right there fluffing it up. I wouldn't be at all surprised if his character was attempting to lift some free isk out of some poor blind soul's pocket.
As I negotiated with the 'victim' before, I find it hard to believe that this is fake. Either way, I'm starting to hope Everybruce isn't punished for this - a new option for scamming would be nice, and this guy ought to have a lesson taught to him.
Edit; What I don't get is why he has bid for another character (16b IIRC) while this thing is still going. How did you get that ISK? Or are you just hoping you're gonna get the 17.5b back so soon?
You read that post right? I'm completely up-front with the individuals, nor am I overbidding anyone in those threads. That said, when/if I get the isk back, I need options for a character. Thus far I've confirmed 2 characters which are willing to accept a price I can pay, and both understand that they're free to keep looking or find better opporunities.
All that said, I'm surprised at the venom I've recieved for thinking about this in economic terms. Though I suppose working in an industry where the customer is always right and repeat customers are god, my views may be a bit skewed.
I've seen you only bid once (not really looking for your posts), and you didn't state you were waiting for the ISK or anything. Maybe you edited it afterwards, maybe you contacted the guy and said what's going on, but that's what I saw.
As for the 'venom', the reality is that this is your fault. It's simple as that. You may have been well intentioned, but you were the one that didn't post the offer in the forum, you were the one that didn't ask the seller to reply to the EVE mail confirming the character sale, you were the one that accepted a 17.5b sleipnir contract.
Just because character transfers are protected by C&P, doesn't mean you're allowed to act carelessly about it.
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Tashajan
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Posted - 2009.05.11 15:04:00 -
[226]
Originally by: Kaptain Klo Petition udpated: GM retracted intial ruling, and is now attempting to contact the seller.
Good to hear..
Imo, i think its pretty distastefull to use unclear loopholes in char trades to scam ppl, and im usually all in for scamming unsuspecting ppl out of their isk
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Jumbalaiya
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Posted - 2009.05.11 15:06:00 -
[227]
I hope you get the money back.
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Lady Cynosural
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Posted - 2009.05.11 15:09:00 -
[228]
Edited by: Lady Cynosural on 11/05/2009 15:10:10 I've heard nothing on the matter since my petition was decided on Saturday.
Which GM retracted what ruling?
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Lady Cynosural
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Posted - 2009.05.11 15:14:00 -
[229]
To confirm the GM retracted the decision to HIS petition, made 3 days before mine.
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igil
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Posted - 2009.05.11 15:21:00 -
[230]
Originally by: Kaptain Klo Petition udpated: GM retracted intial ruling, and is now attempting to contact the seller.
If this is true, then does that mean the OP withheld information from his petition in order to skew it to his advantage? I find it likely considering how he has imparted limited information to us from time to time to make his case look better.
I hope you get your money back. Even if you were naive, you put your faith in a system that you were convinced would protect you and I hope it does.
As for the OP, this isn't really a matter of if he gets banned anymore, I'm mostly interested in generally seeing how CCP handles the situation, but a banhammer would certainly make a surprising ending.
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Lady Cynosural
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Posted - 2009.05.11 15:57:00 -
[231]
Edited by: Lady Cynosural on 11/05/2009 15:57:14 I would also imagine, that as one of the largest single scams in eve - and of a character based nature, they would take the time and consideration to investigate it properly. If they haven't, then that's quite poor customer service.
It's a reasonable possibility that Kaptain Klo is buffing as a last ditch attempt to panic me into giving him the money.
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Lady Cynosural
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Posted - 2009.05.11 16:18:00 -
[232]
I'll post this, make of it what you will.. smells fishy to me.
Quote: [15:11:53] Kaptain Klo > Lo [15:12:16] Jamie Bonnaro > so whats going on with the petition [15:12:22] Jamie Bonnaro > suppose you can guess who i am [15:12:59] Kaptain Klo > Ah, I guess I can. [15:13:08] Jamie Bonnaro > Could you quote what the GM said please? [15:13:09] Kaptain Klo > The GM retracted his initial ruling against my character petition [15:13:14] Kaptain Klo > Can't quote [15:13:18] Kaptain Klo > But my GM [15:13:34] Kaptain Klo > reversed the intial ruling because there was in fact a character post on the bazaar [15:13:37] Jamie Bonnaro > Could you reword it? [15:14:06] Jamie Bonnaro > ah, so it wasn't the decision on my petition 3 days after yours? [15:14:34] Kaptain Klo > Correct, it was the decision against mine because I didn't link your character bazaar post with the intial petition [15:14:49] Kaptain Klo > BTW, shall I give the GM this characters name to negotiate with? [15:15:06] Kaptain Klo > THey aren't certain how to contact you, due to the ban. [15:15:17] Jamie Bonnaro > go ahead [15:16:31] Kaptain Klo > Sent the message, not sure if they will or won't contact you on that char. [15:16:50] Kaptain Klo > But basically, they denied it initially because they thought there was no post at all on the char bazaar [15:17:29] Jamie Bonnaro > what about the response to my petition? [15:17:34] Kaptain Klo > THey aren't linked. [15:18:07] Kaptain Klo > So we'll just have to see :) [15:18:37] Jamie Bonnaro > okay [15:18:43] Jamie Bonnaro > things have got interesting again.. [15:20:30] Jamie Bonnaro > would have thought they would have investigated it fully [15:21:13] Kaptain Klo > With thousands of petitions each day, do you really think they have the time to go in-depth for 15-30 minutes searching for forum posts and logs? [15:21:22] Kaptain Klo > You've clearly never worked customer support :P [15:21:34] Kaptain Klo > It's all about resolutions per hour. [15:22:19] Jamie Bonnaro > surely by not investigating exceptional cases well it would take up more time by having to go back over it [15:53:33] Jamie Bonnaro > there's a high possibility you could be bluffing as a last ditch attempt to get me to give you the money [15:53:43] Kaptain Klo > lol [15:53:46] Kaptain Klo > k [15:54:09] Kaptain Klo > If I wanted you to just give me the money, I would've continued our conversation from several days ago [15:54:49] Kaptain Klo > GM must be afk, I did send your chars name in the peition. [15:55:30] Jamie Bonnaro > I would imagine that for a 17.5 billion scam, one of the largest single scams in eve - of a character based nature - they would investigate it as fully as possible [15:57:05] Kaptain Klo > lol, ok. Now we're just getting silly again, like last time. We'll just have to wait and see I suppose.
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Jumbalaiya
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Posted - 2009.05.11 16:26:00 -
[233]
I don't like how you always bring up the "greatest eve scam ever" when it obviously wasn't. From what I've read it was just an accident that you capitalized on. If you had planned this all along you should most certainly get banned, but your only playing card is "whoops, not my fault". The fact that the GM retracted the ruling after seeing you did make a post on the character bazaar to me implies you're now losing ground; I guess we'll see how bad they want to hurt you.
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Dzil
Caldari Second Quadrant Ice Division
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Posted - 2009.05.11 16:28:00 -
[234]
Quote: [15:15:06] Kaptain Klo > THey aren't certain how to contact you, due to the ban.
lol
Is your email address on file? That's where I would start...
A GM should be extremely cautious about engaging a different account's characters in a case that could involve a ban. While it's almost certain you're everybruce, without everybruce confirming that you could just be a friend, or an old accomplice. Jamming up the GMs by getting them involved with the wrong party would serve to better keep you (or the OP) in the clear.
Never put a thing past a scammer
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Dzil
Caldari Second Quadrant Ice Division
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Posted - 2009.05.11 16:33:00 -
[235]
Originally by: Jumbalaiya I don't like how you always bring up the "greatest eve scam ever" when it obviously wasn't.
True that. Dissolve one of the top sovereignty holding alliances, or lure 100 billion in cap ships into EC-P8R like a pack of lemming ******s - then we'll talk. 17 bil is a hell of a take, but not quite worthy of repeatedly characterizing it as a greatest scam ever.
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Drunk Driver
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.05.11 16:37:00 -
[236]
This kind of scam could hurt character trades if allowed to stand.
This should be a zero tolerance issue. No scams of any kind should be allowed with character transfers.
It causes confusion and undermines trust in the character transfer system.
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igil
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Posted - 2009.05.11 16:41:00 -
[237]
Originally by: Lady Cynosural I'll post this, make of it what you will.. smells fishy to me.
Looks like someone is getting nervous again. Posting your chat logs with Klo in game regarding this issue isn't going to change the fact that the GMs either ARE or AREN'T taking another look at this. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.
If you're lucky, Klo is bluffing, but I seriously doubt it, and so do you apparently, since you're once again extremely eager for others to tell you that everything is going to be ok.
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Weight What
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Posted - 2009.05.11 16:45:00 -
[238]
Originally by: Magic Dragonrider Tao Ball Public spectacle fades. Mandarins have rendered judgement. New diversions await.
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Annonymous, trading as "Weight What". |
Lady Cynosural
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Posted - 2009.05.11 16:47:00 -
[239]
Just posted it for reference really, not once have I said it's the greatest eve scam ever - just one of the. And for the record, I didn't plan it all along - I capitalised on an opportunity.
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igil
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Posted - 2009.05.11 17:05:00 -
[240]
Yes, I would be nervous in your position. However, that doesn't change the fact that I would never put myself into your position to begin with.
By saying you didn't plan it all along, do you mean that you really meant to sell the character in the beginning, but then decided maybe you could scam him halfway through?
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