Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Mean McCrabby
|
Posted - 2009.05.04 09:46:00 -
[1]
I have a character with 73 million SP in all caldari ships and missiles. I literally cannot train any missile skill any higher. Despite having perfect skills and solid set ups with all my ships, they still ...well they fail against other races.
For example. I am in a CNR with its 7th launcher, rigged, all tech 2, and I duel an armageddon. I win, but its close. Why is it even close at all? Geddon is 50mil isk ship. How embarrassing.
Cerberus, even with HAM, gets ****d up close by other HACs.
Recons...you made the falcon have to get so close its likely going to die, and doesnt have enough grid to really defend itself. I can put a plate to give it a little staying time, or I could put some medium hybrids (how lame) which wont even kill anything anyway. Thanks for the options.
The scorpion...what are you doing there? Horrible ecm strength. Pathetic locking speed. Cant really tank the thing except for plates, then its slow in every way imaginable.
Hawk, no need to go there.
Phoenix, cant even do damage against a carrier without having ten webs on it. Youre better off in a Raven most of the time.
Tengu - the ecm set up tengu only does around 10 jam strength...my falcon does 13 or 14. I cant really justify training the stuff and spending the isk on a ship that really doesnt do anything impressive damage, or ecm wise.
Why do just about all the caldari ships suck? Every other race has some great 1v1 ships and will just about always wipe the floor with caldari. In fleets I always hear "shoot -insert caldari ship here- first because it will blow apart like tissue"
Please give Caldari a needed rework.
Fix Citadels. They need to be able to hit carriers/MS that are moving.
Make the Battleships, HACs, Recons, more tough, more effective, and able to stand up to their counterparts without hilarity ensuing afterwards.
|
Shadow Devourer
|
Posted - 2009.05.04 10:03:00 -
[2]
I don't agree about the cerb. It's not supposed to be as good as the other hacs up close because it's better at range. BUT Caldari do have some problems right that should be looked into.
|
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2009.05.04 10:21:00 -
[3]
Just because you bought a fancy faction battleship does not give you the power to wtfpwn other battleships with ease. That is a primary principle of EVE battle mechanics, bigger and more expensive ships can be beaten by "inferior" ships at times. A geddon shooting em damage vs a CNR is a prime example.
Caldari is the range race. If you are too blind and stupid to use this advantage and insist on throwing your cerb at the enemy at point blank range then you DESERVE to die. Range, jamming and tackle, while the missile ships stand off at range and pound the enemy into dust. If you do not wish to play in this manner then don't train caldari.
A lot of good caldari pvp ships. They aren't good at 1v1 or solo roaming this is true, but that does not mean they are a broken pvp race.
Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup. Cry some more.
|
Shadow Devourer
|
Posted - 2009.05.04 11:06:00 -
[4]
Hawk. Raptor. Moa. Citadels. Need I say more?
fake edit: fix the other races problems too.
|
Fille Balle
TachyonTubbies Dark Taboo
|
Posted - 2009.05.04 12:12:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Fille Balle on 04/05/2009 12:13:12 Rokh, moa, ferox. Moar grid please. These are supposed to work as snipers, and yet they can't fit the guns without gimping the whole setup. Gr8! People say that shield tanks have make sacrifices in other areas, because they can boost damage with the low slots. How does this work when I need to use those slots to boost my grid? And they run out of cpu as well. I thought caldari ships where supposed to be advanced.
Supported
Edit: CPU
|
Dex Nederland
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
|
Posted - 2009.05.04 15:41:00 -
[6]
The issue is that most pvp situations favor closer ranges (<24km) and Caldari are (were in the case of EW) with mid to long range in mind (24-50+ km). Caldari ships lack the comparable dps at <24km that the other races can bring to bear and beyond that range can not provide even secondary tackling capability.
Changes to 'what is important' in terms of objectives in space (beyond killing the other guy) may provide more opportunities for Caldari ships/design to show its stuff.
Caldari are defensive (as in defending an objective) in nature; but when the only objective is attrition against the enemy.
So sure look at it; what is the intention of Caldari design and how does it fit into the game currently?
In-Game Browser : http://ldis.caldari-made.net |
Bunyip
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2009.05.04 16:26:00 -
[7]
Yes, Crapdari aren't a good PvP race, but they aren't that bad either. I don't think they're necessarily designed for PvP, except as in an EW role.
Lets look at what they are good at - Mining, Missions, Freighters...I think you see the point I'm trying to make here. If not, I'll explain each entry better:
Mining: The Osprey is comparable to the Scythe of the Minmatar, but the Bantam far outweighs the Burst (the only mining frigate with no defensive capabilities). Missions: CNRs fill the mission hubs, and make an excellent route for running missions fast. AFAIK, no other racial ships can run a mission faster than the Crapdari. Freighters: Everybody knows the Charon is the biggest hauler in the game. Their Industrials (the Badgers) are also renown for their ability to operate successfully as a decoy, and make a very decent hauler as well.
Honestly, I don't see a problem here. Yes, their forte is not PvP, but look at the mining ability of the Amarr - they only have one ship with a bonus to mining laser yield (the Tormentor). The Crapdari don't need a buff...they're great at what they do.
"May all your hits be crits." - Knights of the Dinner Table. |
Shadow Devourer
|
Posted - 2009.05.04 18:49:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Bunyip Yes, Crapdari aren't a good PvP race, but they aren't that bad either. I don't think they're necessarily designed for PvP, except as in an EW role.
Lets look at what they are good at - Mining, Missions, Freighters...I think you see the point I'm trying to make here. If not, I'll explain each entry better:
Mining: The Osprey is comparable to the Scythe of the Minmatar, but the Bantam far outweighs the Burst (the only mining frigate with no defensive capabilities). Missions: CNRs fill the mission hubs, and make an excellent route for running missions fast. AFAIK, no other racial ships can run a mission faster than the Crapdari. Freighters: Everybody knows the Charon is the biggest hauler in the game. Their Industrials (the Badgers) are also renown for their ability to operate successfully as a decoy, and make a very decent hauler as well.
Honestly, I don't see a problem here. Yes, their forte is not PvP, but look at the mining ability of the Amarr - they only have one ship with a bonus to mining laser yield (the Tormentor). The Crapdari don't need a buff...they're great at what they do.
9/10 quality troll would read again.
|
Klyria
Minmatar Bloodmoney Incorporated
|
Posted - 2009.05.04 19:09:00 -
[9]
You have 73 million SP, and your just now coming to the realization that Caldari aren't strong pvpers??? Ignoring that, I have to say I have no support for this topic at all. Missiles are no longer meant to kill every ship that they run into, making most Caldari boats have to think before going into pvp. Also, you completely discount the use of hybrids, which are supposed to be the last the short range Caldari option.
Point is you just sound whiny here, and I cannot support an issue that doesn't have any merit.
|
Mean McCrabby
|
Posted - 2009.05.04 19:53:00 -
[10]
Yes I have 73m sp. When I began training the character (as caldari racial purist missiles/shields only) caldari were still pretty good. Now its just laughable.
What does it matter if caldari have the ability to have good range if I cant tackle and actually score the kill? The enemy will just fly away. As 1v1 ships, they simply suck. Tell me I am wrong. For instance the megathron can fit a tackle set up mwd/web/scram and still deal great damage and have an insane buffer tank.
The CNR has to fit a full buffer tank just to survive an engagement with non faction BS and has no ability to tank, cant web/paint anything else to help shoot smaller ships either. It can hit BS hard but cant catch anything. It sucks solo, whereas every other race can do decent solo with their mega/domi/geddon/abaddon/mealstrom/phoon
Caldari have the WORST battleships in the game. Their ships are just a joke, and its not funny. Skills and set up are not an issue. It is the ships themselves.
I know Minmatar complain about their ships sucking, but really its Caldari ships that need a serious look too.
Raven - needs to be able to slug it out 1v1 and not get taken apart like a tissue. Maybe if you made missile reloading time much faster I could switch damage types in combat much faster, which would help a lot. Or give missiles a mixture of damage? Really, why not, where is the logic? You can put anything on a missile.
Scorpion - Pathetic firepower / Pathetic ecm power / Pathetic tank - If you tank it then it has no ecm, if you ecm it up, it still has crap tank.
Falcon - The only ship I fly caldari because it hasnt been so horribly nerfed yet. Sure ecm is powerful, but when I have zero missiles/guns and no tank and ONLY ecm...it had been do the trick. Now I am forced to get close enough for many dangerous ship classes to be all over me in 1 ecm cycle time.
Ferox? Lame. I went for a period of about 2 years without seeing one person pvp in a ferox, I am not even kidding.
You ruined my time honored Kestrel as well. It is now basically a rocket only boat. Id like to see an AF version of it to replace the Hawk. Just do a paintjob on it and give it more grid and more missile bonuses.
Anyway. Give me some cheese, because I have a lot of whine.
One last thing... CITADELS NEED HELP SO THEY CAN HIT A MOVING MS!!!
|
|
BlackHorizon
Raype Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.05.04 20:06:00 -
[11]
Edited by: BlackHorizon on 04/05/2009 20:06:27 Caldari are mostly fine. They are long range specialists.
Citadel explosion velocity in seige (~3 m/s) is slower than an electric golf cart, and I agree that it needs to be boosted.
|
Zapata9
|
Posted - 2009.05.04 20:14:00 -
[12]
I support this topic whole heartedly. I train mostly minmitar now cause caldari ships are not good for much other than NPC. Yet when you read their description when you make your char they sound like the biggest badasses around. What a bunch of bull
|
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
|
Posted - 2009.05.04 20:51:00 -
[13]
I agree regarding Citadels, and maybe a couple of the other complaints too. However, "the race is broken" is going way too far. Yeah, they're bad at solo PvP. This is why gangs exist. They're not in need of a general rebalance.
|
Xiao LoPan
|
Posted - 2009.05.04 22:44:00 -
[14]
the caldari are the zerg, I doubt they will be strengthened until they stop being so completely over populated, recently I went on a tour of caldari space looking for a way to increase my faction with the caldari state, i didn't find a single .5 system with less than 40 ships in it, it would appear that all the nerfs the caldari have received are a ccp population control method.
|
Mean McCrabby
|
Posted - 2009.05.05 00:53:00 -
[15]
It makes me laugh when people say Caldari are long range specialists. Well one thing about having range is the ability to keep the range.
Maybe if the Raven could move like a Typhoon we could have something nice there, but as it stands, its slow as hell and basically waiting for a Megathron to fly in its face and shred it.
I am going to make a long list of proposed fixes for many of the problems I see with different Caldari ships and post in a new thread. I hope everyone will give feedback to that.
|
Rashella Ta'Verias
|
Posted - 2009.05.05 12:27:00 -
[16]
|
mazzilliu
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.05.05 13:01:00 -
[17]
Edited by: mazzilliu on 05/05/2009 13:01:07 caldari + PVP + missiles = LOL. any sort of DPS output by a caldari ship in a PVP situation is pretty much negated completely if the ships at long range in a small fleet or at just about any range in a large fleet. the target will probably die before the missiles reach there.
falcon/rook needs tons of help, the ECM nerf went way overboard and even putting on plates wont help much if the enemy fleet is of any decent size. in practice, falcon/rook used to be able to reliably disable about 2-4 battleships(or 5 frigates/cruisers!) on average against a subcap fleet at range pre-patch. It should have just had jammer strength reduced so it could only reliably disable 1-3 ships on average, or jammer maths re-worked so its jamming chances are balanced between frigates and capital ships. close range isnt going to work for this ship.
citadel torp boost seems to be in the pipeline, finally
caldari are the best race for PVE though. any given 0.0 ratter picked at random is probably in a raven. you can pick your damage type, the slot layouts generally favor midslots which have more utility in general then lowslots, so you can fit tank AND damage mods. shield tanking is instantaneous unlike armor tanking. caldari have all that unlike all the other races(minmatar split weapon system garbage cans dont count). i really dont think caldari need much of a boost except some specific ships. and i dont understand why the OP thinks ravens have an awful tank or feroxes are never used.
Originally by: Xiao LoPan the caldari are the zerg, I doubt they will be strengthened until they stop being so completely over populated, recently I went on a tour of caldari space looking for a way to increase my faction with the caldari state, i didn't find a single .5 system with less than 40 ships in it, it would appear that all the nerfs the caldari have received are a ccp population control method.
probably more because of the achura and their 3 charisma then anything else. the mazzilliu CSM campaign central <- girl <- hot <- pics |
Senh Rin'nko
|
Posted - 2009.05.05 14:55:00 -
[18]
Scorpion Rokh Basilisk Drake Crow Cerberus
are all good ships ur dumb
|
Esmenet
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.05.05 15:43:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Mean McCrabby
What does it matter if caldari have the ability to have good range if I cant tackle and actually score the kill? The enemy will just fly away. As 1v1 ships, they simply suck. Tell me I am wrong. For instance the megathron can fit a tackle set up mwd/web/scram and still deal great damage and have an insane buffer tank.
You are supposed to have a friend in a onyx do the tackling. Face facts eve is not a solo game, especially not in battleships. Your megathron comment just shows your lack of experience for all your 73m sp. And yea this is my sig. Real PVP'ers only use f1. |
Gavin Darklighter
THE FINAL STAND
|
Posted - 2009.05.05 16:38:00 -
[20]
Caldari have a lot of great PVP ships. A slight boost to BS-size missile explosion velocity, medium boost to cruiser-size, and large boost to frigate-size exp velocity might be in order however. They could also bring citadel torp exp velocity back up to the pre-apocrypha value; even then it would still do poor damage to a carrier moving at half speed.
signature picture exceeds the size limit.~WeatherMan |
|
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
|
Posted - 2009.05.05 17:12:00 -
[21]
PEBKAC.
|
Excempt
Caldari Seventh Heaven's Construction
|
Posted - 2009.05.05 18:54:00 -
[22]
agreed.. some of the ships do need abit of tweaking! T1 Hauler T1 Miner ========
Excempt |
Gavin Darklighter
THE FINAL STAND
|
Posted - 2009.05.05 20:42:00 -
[23]
The Caldari ships are great, but missile explosion velocity took too large of a hit from the nerf bat.
The nerf to explosion velocity should have scaled with how much slower ships became after the "speed-rebalanced" changes. I.E. if battleships lost on average 30% velocity, then torpedos and cruise missiles should have received a 30% reduction in explosion velocity.
signature picture exceeds the size limit.~WeatherMan |
Aethrwolf
Caldari Home for Wayward Gamers
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 05:29:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Xiao LoPan the caldari are the zerg, I doubt they will be strengthened until they stop being so completely over populated, recently I went on a tour of caldari space looking for a way to increase my faction with the caldari state, i didn't find a single .5 system with less than 40 ships in it, it would appear that all the nerfs the caldari have received are a ccp population control method.
this is an unfortunate truth.. ccp took the rout of making caldari UNpopular rather than just trying to make the other races MORE popular. Problem with trying to control population this late in the world of eve is the fact that its way too late to be effective in any reasonable length of time. Too many caldari chars already exist, and that wont change soon. I've just resigned myself to dying in any pvp situation for the next few YEARS until populations are past being balanced out and caldari are in the minority. That's what it seems it will take for the nerfs to go away. Til then I'll just clutter high sec with the rest of the missile specs who are training into other things. Absolutely everything is subjective. |
Hexor V
I.M.M Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 07:26:00 -
[25]
Boost falcon Boost falcon Boost falcon Boost falcon Boost falcon Boost falcon Boost falcon Boost falcon Boost falcon Boost falcon ____
YHBT
|
Stalina
Gallente Deep Space Exploration Squad Ev0ke
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 07:37:00 -
[26]
GB2WOW ________________________________________
________________________________________ http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
|
Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 07:43:00 -
[27]
Caldari chars maybe overpoppulated, but in pvp caldari ships are nowhere near as many as amarr or matar ships at least in the region where Im currently.
Just last roaming we had: only hacs: 7 muninn 10 zealot 1 eagle (died) 3 cerb 5 deimos 2 istars 0 sacri 3 vaga
or fleet bs ops: only bs: 15 mega 1 domi 12 apoc 1 abba 3 rokh 12 tempest 3 typho 2 mael 2 scorp 3 raven
And usually these ratios are true for most ops.
|
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 08:12:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Naomi Knight Caldari chars maybe overpoppulated, but in pvp caldari ships are nowhere near as many as amarr or matar ships at least in the region where Im currently.
only bs: 15 mega 1 domi 12 apoc 1 abba 3 rokh 12 tempest 3 typho 2 mael 2 scorp 3 raven
And usually these ratios are true for most ops.
And completely worthless. Because you've just said that the Mega is the best sniper.
|
Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 09:48:00 -
[29]
You forget about the Chimera which is one of the Best carriers hands down.
The pheonix is epic for pos bashing (which was the primary use for dreads according to ccp)
Falcons and Rooks have a wicked part in roams and fleets.
Cerbs are wicked inti snipers with precisions, good dps boats with Heavys and HASs.
The Eagle is the furthest sniping hac in the game AFAIK
NH is a wicked command ship
Levi is an awesome titan
Manticore is the best stealth bomber.
The Caldari Inties are Awesome.
The Flycather is the fastest locking of the Dictors
The Onyx is Tied for first for Best Hic
Golem is a wicked maurader for ratting in deep 0.0 and missioning
They have the best JF if im not mistaken.
Drake is the Best Mid Level mission Runner
Have i missed anything cause thats a lot of up sides to the race?
|
Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 09:50:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Gypsio III
And completely worthless. Because you've just said that the Mega is the best sniper.
Realy have I? I thought i said that caldari is the least used race in pvp. Oh no. You must be right the raven should be the top used with its awesome dps/tank while still having 200km optimal.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |