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Raven Pox
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Posted - 2009.05.04 19:50:00 -
[1]
Anyone care to pipe up for reputable Eve Auditors and their associated terms.
If you're an Auditor post here with your terms/link to your terms.
If you're not an auditor please sign the posts from Auditors you've worked with and I'll compile a list as the thread evolves:
Auditors:
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Raven Pox
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Posted - 2009.05.04 19:51:00 -
[2]
Reserved
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Raven Pox
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Posted - 2009.05.04 19:52:00 -
[3]
Reserved
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Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.04 20:22:00 -
[4]
This is the link you are looking for
Quote:
The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
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Fleshbot
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Posted - 2009.05.05 07:14:00 -
[5]
The four on list Ji Sama linkedc to (Brock Nelson, Kazuo Ishiguro, Kazzac Elentria, Shar Tegral) are the ones that currently volunteer/offer their services. However, those guys are often busy and I've volunteered twice and completed one (the second one used a more reputable person from the list of four).
But I've been thinking that the MD forum may want to have a few 'small time' auditors for smaller ventures (say less that five billion) and have the big guns for larger ventures.
In addition the larger ventures could use the 'big' auditors and the 'little' auditors, thus guaranteeing a double audit and not a repeat of the scamming auditor fiasco we had last year.
Incidentally, how much do you guys charge for Audits? Is it just first dibs to invest in the bond/ipo? Flat fee? Percentage? Free?
At this point I've just been doing it out of curiosity for the process (and for free).
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Caleb Ayrania
Gallente TarNec Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll
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Posted - 2009.05.05 07:27:00 -
[6]
There seem to be a lot of this going around atm..
Might be linked to RL taking a chunk out of some of the regulars time these days.
Shars work, Hexxx Travels, Ricdics parental situation etc..
I read that Kazzac is working on some auditor streamlining tools, and I have recently opened Secure Commerce Services through the lounge work.
Anyone interested in this I suggest dropping in on the lounge, and read up on the information on audit work. Personally I hope the big guns will help in pushing the suggestion of smaller guns and see if we cant get a few more into this business.
OFC in the situations where heavy duty trust is invovled and the cases are complex it would be nice for the regulars to maybe have someone to distribute some of the load to..
- Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways.
Feed your Brain:
Innovation Thread |
Attrezzo Pox
Amarr Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.05.05 12:51:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Attrezzo Pox on 05/05/2009 12:53:07 doh.
*-------------------------* PoX IS Eve!!! BOOM!!! |
Raven Pox
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Posted - 2009.05.05 12:59:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ji Sama This is the link you are looking for
Is that stickied somewhere? I looked for it all over... must have passed it by. thx
It describes the audit process and it's reasoning, but what about terms. I'm guessing these are worked out on a case-by-case basis.
(Terms meaning, You pay, I do, when we're done this happens)
I think the other two posts just back up the reason I created this post. I don't want to hijack anyone's work but it seems to me that the Eve community can surely cough up more than 4 respectable auditors.
Like Fleshbot was saying, there are plenty of small guys willing to do it. Why not make a thread with some of those willing to do audits that are trustworthy?
I'd like to see a few self-proclaimed auditors post here with their terms and services. And link to a couple of audits they've done or provide references, then I'll be happy to update the OP with their ingame contact details and the terms.
I just thought it'd be nice to give borrowers easy access to a list of people who can audit them and who are trusted. It would help with feeling secure about asking for money, and hopefully streamline the process a bit so that people weren't constantly asking "Where's the audit?".
Anyway. Just an idea, looks like it's going to flop though.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.05.05 13:15:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Fleshbot
Incidentally, how much do you guys charge for Audits? Is it just first dibs to invest in the bond/ipo? Flat fee? Percentage? Free?
I waive fees for smaller operations that are going public some how. 150-250 per account after that depending on how in depth is needed. Employment verifications (checking employment history against known issues, etc... takes the longest) financial checks take the shortest (go figure you know? Employment history really outta get pulled out of the API)
For all other inquires its 250 per incident. At the moment Im generally involved in applicant screening for directors for corporations. This takes the bulk of my time and Im busy enough that it pays for a GTC. |
Raven Pox
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Posted - 2009.05.05 13:38:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
I waive fees for smaller operations that are going public some how. 150-250 per account after that depending on how in depth is needed. Employment verifications (checking employment history against known issues, etc... takes the longest) financial checks take the shortest (go figure you know? Employment history really outta get pulled out of the API)
For all other inquires its 250 per incident. At the moment Im generally involved in applicant screening for directors for corporations. This takes the bulk of my time and Im busy enough that it pays for a GTC.
Are you willing to post a quick thread with your terms and so on? I know your reputation precedes you and it's really not necessary, but for examples sake it would help tremendously.
Thanks for your time.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.05.05 16:18:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Raven Pox
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
I waive fees for smaller operations that are going public some how. 150-250 per account after that depending on how in depth is needed. Employment verifications (checking employment history against known issues, etc... takes the longest) financial checks take the shortest (go figure you know? Employment history really outta get pulled out of the API)
For all other inquires its 250 per incident. At the moment Im generally involved in applicant screening for directors for corporations. This takes the bulk of my time and Im busy enough that it pays for a GTC.
Are you willing to post a quick thread with your terms and so on? I know your reputation precedes you and it's really not necessary, but for examples sake it would help tremendously.
Thanks for your time.
Well not to let the cat out of the bad early or anything but
http://www.evefas.net
Will more or less be a one stop shop for both people looking for audits, wanting to review existing and past audits, and hopefully for any auditors which to maintain a publicly viewable page of their services fees, and contact information.
Eventually I plan to include credit style reporting for everyone in EVE, meaning authorized users can submit reports about people which will accumulate over time.
The giant threadnaught of scammers is a good example of one which belongs in a place devoid of comments but easily updated and verified with existing information. |
Raven Pox
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Posted - 2009.05.05 18:31:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Raven Pox on 05/05/2009 18:32:39 That's a great idea, and an awesome website, I'll certainly list it in the OP.
I hope you can understand how this may effect some however. Certainly, it's worth noting that if a particular borrower/solicitor has some issue with you, or those "authorized" on your website they would be in want of other information. Such as the information I hope to offer with this thread.
Just like someone believing this thread to be biased or unreliable might defer to your website for additional auditing guidance.
Furthermore, though personal metagame websites are incredibly useful tools they have a tendency to follow the fate of their maintainers. And often they require registration or authorization. In your case this is good and bad, the good side is as long as your credible you can keep being scammed and scamming via your site to an absolute minimum. The bad side is that you may ostracise some who don't know about the resource or don't see it as biased against them.
The hope is a this topic or one like it will get stickied and updated by CCP or another user from time to time as to put as much reliable information out there as possible. Information including your website and a host of others.
I don't believe that properly maintained a 'threadnot' like this would become a resource for scammers as the whole point is that the entire community gets a say whether or not they're authorized by you, me, or anyone but CCP. IF you play eve, you can post here, no other info is required. I see value in that but it looks like I'm alone.
Thank again for your time.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.05.05 18:41:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Raven Pox Edited by: Raven Pox on 05/05/2009 18:37:03 That's a great idea, and an awesome website, I'll certainly list it in the OP.
Anyone else?
Thanks again for your time.
Keep in mind any content on there now is mostly placeholders while I get the initial structure setup |
Raven Pox
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Posted - 2009.05.05 18:49:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
Originally by: Raven Pox Edited by: Raven Pox on 05/05/2009 18:37:03 That's a great idea, and an awesome website, I'll certainly list it in the OP.
Anyone else?
Thanks again for your time.
Keep in mind any content on there now is mostly placeholders while I get the initial structure setup
Yeah man, I hope this thread stays for awhile, if that's the case then you and your auditors get free advertisement. I just think it's silly to want to build a proposal and be faced with the problem of finding an auditor that won't scam the crap out of you. It's an easy thing to solve, just create a list of trusted auditory types on the forums where anyone can post their feelings about it. There will be some flames surely, but more often you'll be able to sort out who's been doing it awhile and who is likely going to scam you. It also has the added bonus of raising the roof for a little bit of price competition. Those around longer charge more, those not around for very long charge less... you get the idea.
I think I'll go into audits after a few more months here. Or at least test the waters. I do it enough in real life I might as well test the waters in game. Especially if the Auditing business largely has moved onto bigger and better stuff. It sounds like many of you have your queue full as it is, plenty of room for some small frys.
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.05 19:14:00 -
[15]
I don't audit anymore, please take my name off the list.
I barely have time for my existing commitments and I've actually frozen one of my big pet projects due to RL lack of time.
Regards, Hexxx
EBANK - Chairman of the Board | www.eve-bank.net
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Estel Arador
Minmatar Estel Arador Corp Services
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Posted - 2009.05.05 19:26:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Raven Pox It's an easy thing to solve, just create a list of trusted auditory types on the forums where anyone can post their feelings about it.
I was wondering why someone with no posting history to speak of would want to create a list of 'trusted' auditors which (a) already exists and (b) is common knowledge for anyone who reads this forum for more than a week. Luckily you posted the answer:
Originally by: Raven Pox I think I'll go into audits after a few more months here.
Let me tell you, getting into that business is a bit more difficult than simply announcing you're in it.
This entire list seems pointless to me anyway, the problem is not that people don't know who the trusted auditors are, the problem is that there are too few of them.
FREE! jumpclone service - over 200 locations! |
Raven Pox
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Posted - 2009.05.06 17:14:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Raven Pox on 06/05/2009 17:14:57
Originally by: Estel Arador
Originally by: Raven Pox It's an easy thing to solve, just create a list of trusted auditory types on the forums where anyone can post their feelings about it.
I was wondering why someone with no posting history to speak of would want to create a list of 'trusted' auditors which (a) already exists and (b) is common knowledge for anyone who reads this forum for more than a week. Luckily you posted the answer:
Yikes. (a) where? Four names hardly qualifies as a "list" and many of those are supposedly too busy with their own commitments to deal with more audits. As this thread clearly qualifies. (b) if it was common knowledge to anyone who reads this forum longer than a week someone would have long ago responded to the original post with a good list of auditors. For that matter your post wouldn't exist as this thread would have been left to die in the stack. kthx.
Furthermore, my lack of posting history is irrelevant in the effort to make a list of trusted auditors. Why don't you do it? What could I possibly want with a list of auditors other than to a. benefit myself by having such a list handy should I want to create a proposal for myself, and b. benefit the eve community and market community by having said list available to them. I can't charge you to look at a post, and I'm not going to hax0r your account because you read some names. Use your head and think for yourself, if you find what you want here good, if you think I'm a worthless scamming nobody then PLEASE, move on.
Originally by: Estel Arador
Originally by: Raven Pox I think I'll go into audits after a few more months here.
Let me tell you, getting into that business is a bit more difficult than simply announcing you're in it.
I realize that, few things are easy but seeing as I have rl experience and there are already too few I might as well give it a shot. I encourage you to do a better job. For that matter make your own 'list', or get your friends to make one. As it stands your arguments are baseless. The fact that I MAY be interested in auditing in eve has absolutely nothing to do with having a list of auditors available to those who need it. I don't care who does it but it should be done.
Originally by: Estel Arador
This entire list seems pointless to me anyway, the problem is not that people don't know who the trusted auditors are, the problem is that there are too few of them.
See now you're getting it. Your right at this point it IS pointless because no one KNOWS any auditors. I would be willing to bet though that there are those out there who DO have the time and would be willing to audit. Trust is built, not given. That being the case a new "auditor" to the trade would have to start on the bottom of the ladder like anyone else. How else do you propose we find trusted people? Maybe Chribba would do it? Or TomB, but then again I'm sure there are those who don't trust them either. Get real man.
In the future please add only constructive criticism.
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Raven Pox
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Posted - 2009.05.06 17:17:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Hexxx I don't audit anymore, please take my name off the list.
I barely have time for my existing commitments and I've actually frozen one of my big pet projects due to RL lack of time.
Regards, Hexxx
Noted and done, thanks for the reply.
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Mme Pinkerton
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.06 19:49:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Mme Pinkerton on 06/05/2009 19:49:46
Originally by: Raven Pox
See now you're getting it. Your right at this point it IS pointless because no one KNOWS any auditors. I would be willing to bet though that there are those out there who DO have the time and would be willing to audit. Trust is built, not given. That being the case a new "auditor" to the trade would have to start on the bottom of the ladder like anyone else. How else do you propose we find trusted people? Maybe Chribba would do it? Or TomB, but then again I'm sure there are those who don't trust them either. Get real man.
As there is no easy way to determine the quality of an auditor (even in the event of a scam you usually can't determine in retrospect whether the auditor could have seen warning signs pointing to a possible fraud or not), the trust necessary for the auditor to be accepted by the MD community is not built by doing audits, but by participating in discussion, by running successful enterprises, by handling relevant sums of public funding - in short by demonstrating general trustworthyness and extensive in-game business experience.
Of course you could offer to do (free) audits which get verified by a trusted auditor - but as not scamming is no particular achievement when you haven't the possibility to scam, this could only demonstrate that you have the necessary knowledge/skills to do a successful audit, it would probably not generate a significant increase of trust in you as a person.
EDIT: grammar
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Estel Arador
Minmatar Estel Arador Corp Services
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Posted - 2009.05.06 23:42:00 -
[20]
Mme Pinkerton hit the nail on the head.
You say a list of four people hardly qualifies as a 'list', but I don't see what the length of a list has to do with anything. A list should be comprehensive, and as far as trusted auditors go, the list of four is comprehensive.
As for telling me to do a better job at it, are you nuts? I've got the business acumen of a donkey's back end - I run a free service for Pete's sake.
FREE! jumpclone service - over 200 locations! |
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.05.07 00:05:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Estel Arador Mme Pinkerton hit the nail on the head.
You say a list of four people hardly qualifies as a 'list', but I don't see what the length of a list has to do with anything. A list should be comprehensive, and as far as trusted auditors go, the list of four is comprehensive.
As for telling me to do a better job at it, are you nuts? I've got the business acumen of a donkey's back end - I run a free service for Pete's sake.
Hey now, in some places thats a business in and of itself. |
Brock Nelson
Caldari Flux Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2009.05.07 00:39:00 -
[22]
Well, I've only done one audit and for now, I'm just sticking to smaller bonds/ipo just to build up reputation as a auditor.
Blueprint Store |
Raven Pox
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Posted - 2009.05.07 17:12:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Estel Arador Mme Pinkerton hit the nail on the head.
You say a list of four people hardly qualifies as a 'list', but I don't see what the length of a list has to do with anything. A list should be comprehensive, [..]
Perhaps it was/is comprehensive but I don't think it was now. Originally this thread asked the simple question about how to find a list of auditors. I was lead to believe the list that you're referring to is NOT comprehensive but rather dated and lacking. Furthermore I don't think that post was intended to provide a comprehensive list of auditors but rather detail the process of auditing.
Anyhow, that's why I changed the OP to attempt to start a comprehensive list.
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Raven Pox
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Posted - 2009.05.07 17:36:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Mme Pinkerton
[..] MD community is not built by doing audits, but by participating in discussion, by running successful enterprises, by handling relevant sums of public funding - in short by demonstrating general trustworthiness and extensive in-game business experience. [...]
Of course you could offer to do (free) audits which get verified by a trusted auditor - but as not scamming is no particular achievement when you haven't the possibility to scam, this could only demonstrate that you have the necessary knowledge/skills to do a successful audit, it would probably not generate a significant increase of trust in you as a person.
I see your point. But it's not an exclusive argument. The people who are already auditors didn't have the trust we place in them today on their first audit. Through devices like the ones you point out they earned it. That was my point.
Perhaps some in the MD community would prefer to trust only those continually posting in these forums, but business activities on the side can actually hurt a trust relationship as well. For instance, if I wanted to start an eve-bank I wouldn't want to be audited by a competitor. And investors wouldn't want me audited by a buddy I had back in such-in-such corp.
I will agree that I wouldn't trust a 50bil proposal to be audited by someone who's never audited before or for that matter audited several unsuccessful deals. But at the same token I'd be willing to give a new auditor a chance with a smaller proposal.
For that matter, I can see your point about trust being built from auditors running businesses similar to those they audit. That only makes sense. Or a new auditor paying to be audited by a more respected auditor, someone having a deal dual audited to show two opinions, the list goes on.
Though I think this idea may have a beneficial effect on scamming (if it works out), it by no means is capable of being 100% trustworthy at all times, say. Or even as trustworthy as some of the auditors who've already posted here. The idea is to encourage new people (and old) to enter the field and BECOME trustworthy by building it with proper business representation.
May the scammers be weeded out in good time.
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Exploding Flood
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Posted - 2009.05.07 18:18:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Exploding Flood on 07/05/2009 18:17:56 I don't see what the problem is. Sure we already have a list of the auditors but we don't have one with links to fee schedules. Having one around would be handy. I'm planning on running a small bond in a few weeks, and up until a few days ago when Kazzac (I think it was Kazzac) mentioned his prices I really wasn't sure how much to budget for the audit, and I've been lurking here for almost a year now.
If it's an issue of misrepresenting new auditors as being trustworthy, put them in a different section. If investors don't trust the auditor then they should request a new one, or just not invest.
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Johnny Rockefeller
Builders League United
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Posted - 2009.05.07 18:18:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Johnny Rockefeller on 07/05/2009 18:18:59 Gah, alt post. That was me (the one time I decide not to click preview!).
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.05.07 18:25:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Exploding Flood Edited by: Exploding Flood on 07/05/2009 18:17:56 I don't see what the problem is. Sure we already have a list of the auditors but we don't have one with links to fee schedules. Having one around would be handy. I'm planning on running a small bond in a few weeks, and up until a few days ago when Kazzac (I think it was Kazzac) mentioned his prices I really wasn't sure how much to budget for the audit, and I've been lurking here for almost a year now.
If it's an issue of misrepresenting new auditors as being trustworthy, put them in a different section. If investors don't trust the auditor then they should request a new one, or just not invest.
AS with all things, stuff is negotiable and prices can rise depending on the circumstances.
For instance, if you need something done by end of day then the amount goes up. |
Raven Pox
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Posted - 2009.05.07 19:15:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Raven Pox on 07/05/2009 19:17:26
Originally by: Brock Nelson Well, I've only done one audit and for now, I'm just sticking to smaller bonds/ipo just to build up reputation as a auditor.
Well enough man, post up a new topic/thread telling us about yourself. Who you've audited, what you've done in the past to qualify you, who would vouch for you, your terms, rates, etc.
That being done, post the link in this thread and I'll post an updated link to your new thread so people can learn more about you. If you use a website to get all of that info across, give me a link to that. thx.
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Varo Jan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.07 20:03:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Raven Pox I think I'll go into audits after a few more months here. Or at least test the waters. I do it enough in real life I might as well test the waters in game.
What sort of audits do you do RL? Financial? Quality? Health & Safety? If financial, are you a CA/CPA?
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Raven Pox
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Posted - 2009.05.07 21:05:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Varo Jan
Originally by: Raven Pox I think I'll go into audits after a few more months here. Or at least test the waters. I do it enough in real life I might as well test the waters in game.
What sort of audits do you do RL? Financial? Quality? Health & Safety? If financial, are you a CA/CPA?
I work for a growth fund. We organize and manage Indian money heh. (Like the casinos don't do enough) Anyhow, the idea is they give us the cash and we organize and deliver it to a number of investments. Oil and Gas, Real Estate, Land Development, and a bit of private equity.
Most of my job entails picking through reports we get from the consultant auditors we send out every year and then flagging potentially relevant information to be investigated by my boss and the big wigs. I'm also sent out on occasion to insure that our consultants are doing their job correctly. And to check into the specific details that the consultants either don't understand or aren't qualified to access. Mostly policy stuff.
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