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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2009.05.05 18:16:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 05/05/2009 18:18:44 Imo the strategy in titan deployment should get changed, right now its just a one-trick pony.
Allow them to use siege modules, increase tanking (e.g. sieged titan should be able to self-rep like 7-10 sieged dreads imo w/ decent fittings), increase gank (sieged titan = 15-20k dps vs other caps, maybe even more).
Increase gang bonus while in siege to give some incentive to deploy them, DDD only operable in siege mode.
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Shereza
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Posted - 2009.05.05 20:44:00 -
[32]
I had an interesting, and probably impractical, way to deal with doomsday devices.
Lower the total damage by 50% and split the rest up into 20% chunks that occur in "pulses" once every 15 seconds for 75 seconds. Along the way throw in a secondary effect based on the primary racial electronic warfare ability.
This will not only lower the total amount of damage done by th module but it'll break it up into chunks that'll let remote repair systems, passive shield tanks, and to a lesser degree active tanks, cope with the damage while also adding a short-term battle-wide EW capacity. It wouldn't do to make the EW too powerful so I'm thinking of the equivalents of a 3-4 point ECM burst, 10% range/resolution sensor dampener, 12.5% optimal/tracking tracking disruptor, and 22.5% target painter.
Just a thought, and as I said likely an impractical one, but an interesting one nonetheless.
As for the ship itself I'm not particularly fond of the idea of turning it into a logistics platform. Motherships and carriers do that role right now and if they aren't sufficient to handle the job then talk about buffing them, not screwing with the titan. As it stands there is currently one each capital and super-capital logistics and offensive platforms and it should stay that way.
The idea of letting the titans use a siege module has merit but I'm not sure it's the correct solution. While it would take more work to make and likely more work to balance I think a modified variant of the siege module would be more ideal.
Perhaps a module that does similar boosting to defensive attributes while taking better advantage of the titans' ability to fit 6+ weapon systems by lowering each hit's raw damage by 25% while boosting the non-range hit factors by 50%. By that I mean a 50% increase in tracking and 50% reduction in signature resolution for capital guns and a 50% reduction in explosion radius with a 50% increase in explosion velocity for citadel torpedoes.
This will leave dreadnoughts their unique role as anti-capital/anti-POS ships while providing titans a post/non-"DDD" role as anti-battleship platforms.
Still probably not a good idea, but a fun one, and probably much better than dropping the raw damage by 50% and boosting the RoF by 65% or more. ____________________
Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval. |
Euriti
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.05.05 21:24:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Sir Substance i mentioned on the F&I forum the possibility of splitting the single dread into three, one POS killer, one that does both POS killing and ship killing (current) and one ship killer. make the POS killer and the ship killer better at their job the the normal one, and you might have a solution for lessening supercaps. not only is it easier to take down live titans, its also easier to take down titans under construction.
Horrible idea. They'd just get hotdropped all the time and people would stop using them and pos sieges would take even longer. ______________________________________________
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Psiri
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Posted - 2009.05.05 21:36:00 -
[34]
Change their role to a fleet boosting one IMO, a non-stacking effect. *shrug*
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.05.05 21:46:00 -
[35]
Add a anti doomsday module that can be fitted instead of the normal doomsday that prevents DDDs from being activated in the grid. So a titan can be used to counter a titan DD. -------- Ideas for: Mining
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Lelulie
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.05.05 22:27:00 -
[36]
Titans are ridiculous.
The doomsday is the worst thing CCP has ever introduced to the game.
A lot of 0.0 gameplay potential was ruined by Titans. ------------------------------------ |
Furrot
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Posted - 2009.05.05 23:15:00 -
[37]
First off, I'm a total noob who has only ever run from the possibility of a Titan nearby, let alone seen one. However I find it kinda shocking that there are 250 of the ship I expect to be unattainable to myself.
From what you've all described here though it sounds like the problem with Titans is that they are filling a bombing run AoE role rather then a stay and fight domination role. I've read that the DDD already disables your ability to jump for ten minutes as a penalty, perhaps that penalty should be slightly expanded to include warping and cloaking as well. From what I've seen on the net, the pure firepower coming out of a DDD would leave enough heat/radiation around the thing to prevent any reasonable sort of hiding. Other possibility could be increasing the cap cost to enough to prevent warp for a few minutes or increasing the charge up time and adding an effect so an observant fleet could choose to run from the attack rather then just being blow up with no warning.
RP wise these things are so large that they can cause damage to smaller planets and moons from the tidal forces. To me, that sounds like it should be big enough for the nav computer to be able to recognize and mark it on the map like any other station or moon sized object. Then it could be warped to an tracked like you would think. This of course makes them more vulnerable but then would encourage the strategic use of DDDs as jumping in and wasting it right at the start might not be a good long term battle plan as you would be stuck there and everyone would know it.
I might not know a lot about these ships but if I were designing something with these capabilities I would have made sure it had the proper "character flaws" to add balance between the power of owning one and the desire to defeat one. Taking down a super-capital ship should be more about your ability to fight long and drawn out battles of attrition not about whether you can survive a double DDD and then start scanning like mad for 10 minutes.
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Ash Bringer
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Posted - 2009.05.05 23:20:00 -
[38]
Make DD'ed titans to freeze 2 mins in space like as it is anchoring or smthng without cloak. No siege bonuses.
This will stop titans being used as duo-pawn machines without any support. No more ninja DDs in the middle of nowhere systems. As it will leave titans extremely defenseless after DD. This will give a high risk to titan pilots if u want to go leeroy to that gate camp you see without any backup. But also wont disturb titans as tactical tools with their awesome firepower.
anyway you can't kill 4 Titans next to each other. But if u wanna change this fact then you have to change DD not the titans. Or maybe you should give MSs a 30km bubble launcher to catch that 4 titan after they DDed and(+) while they are staying frozen in enemy system with no support.
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Miranda Reactor
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Posted - 2009.05.05 23:26:00 -
[39]
They need to add in a new ship, the SUPER DUPER CAP ship.
Maybe call it the SuperDuperMightyTightyTitan
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Zhang Shicheng
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Posted - 2009.05.05 23:33:00 -
[40]
Please just abandon the whole "nerf" mentality. It is the most annoying thing in this type of game. Reframe the mindset, there are other approaches to balancing.
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Ash Bringer
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Posted - 2009.05.06 00:14:00 -
[41]
Nerfing can be bad but you can't buff the most powerful ship class in eve and make it balanced either.
Actually problem is not about balance at all. It's about redesign. They are becoming invulnerable in flight of 2s and more importantly that they can fly in 4s if there is need and 4 other waiting to jump in next system as there is more than 250 titan class ships.
According to plan there shouldn't be more than a couple for each alliance but as you can see everybody owns some now. Though it is good that they are more accessible to more members of eve-players as end game content they are becoming invulnerable.
The Dual Titan gang (even with no support) with a single covops to take them on grid is nearly invul for example.
Mostly such attacks takes place under 10sec for the titans to DD the field then they warp out too fast and cloak too soon.
Remember the chant about "committing to fight" .. Dual titans are ganking and not even playing game.
Anyway you need something more tanked than a hic to catch a titan couple nowadays. As if 2 is not enough believe me any big alliance can login 6 more under 2minutes to pop up any hic on screen.
I guess a capital class tackler(MS to resurrect usefulness) (interdictor star destroyers from SW anyone) and some delay after DDs to keep titans down without cloak and warping around is all we need.
Btw solo titan is not broken. As we know how easy to catch a solo titan pilot(hi shrike) even when there is some support to guard it. So what is broken is titan gangs.
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Jenna fe
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Posted - 2009.05.06 01:12:00 -
[42]
Titan is fine. Titans, however, is not. There are all sorts of ways that this could be sorted out but I'm not sure what the best one is. Perhaps limiting 1 titan in a system at a time, but this comes with lots of its own problems. Maybe limiting not just 1 DD per titan per hour, but 1 DD per grid per hour, or in some radius as well. Again, potential for abuse, but less so. Perhaps give each ship invulnerability to DD for an hour after being hit (and surviving) one.
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Pulsarr1
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Posted - 2009.05.06 01:42:00 -
[43]
Make the titan a capital killer. It currently is next to useless against caps, but it destroys subcap fleets easily. This doesn't follow the dynamic of eve at all, IE next size ship/weapon up has trouble killing the size below.
My suggestion Ditch the DDD, replace it with a titan siege module. Make this siege module similar to a dread siege, but without the tracking penalty. Maybe even give it the possiblilty to move while in siege and receive remote reps, this is an 80 bil ship after all, it's gotta have a big tanking bonus over a dread/carrier. Make it so you have to remove the support ships to take it down.
Give it 4 weapon slots with a 100% damage bonus, in siege mode it should be doing about 15,000-20,000 DPS This leaves the rest of the highs availble for capital modules.
These two changes make it into a capital killer, and make it so that you have to keep the titan on the field, and would make Titan vs. Titan fights something to phone home about.
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Foulque
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Posted - 2009.05.06 05:09:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Foulque on 06/05/2009 05:09:44
Originally by: Furb Killer Edited by: Furb Killer on 05/05/2009 12:47:06 Make it more of a logistics ship. With a clone vat bay for 100 people at least + room for 100 battleships (or more preferably) + repair services. (Or something like that)
So it will certainly be usefull (instant repairs when damaged, if (pod)killed you can in a few minutes be back in the fight, and we still got its jump bridge). But it wont be the fun killer like it is now (oh look, sub capital ships -> double doomsday -> well that was the fight).
This, DD needs to go or at the very lest changed to not be an anti support/bs weapon. Make it a Carrier/Command Ship on steroids :) ________
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Respute
Minmatar Darkstorm Command Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.05.06 05:28:00 -
[45]
Increasing cost/time does NOT fix anything...it just slows the process down.
The best solution I can come up with is once a DD is fired in an area it leaves a "Space Anomaly" that disrupts any other DD's from being fired in the area for a certain amount of time. Much like how complexes mess up MWD's except not permanent. Titans still provide huge strategical uses with jump bridges and one DD will mess up a fleet but wont totally obliterate it. [url=http://kb.etherealdawn.org/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=58730] [/url] |
Leandro Salazar
Better Dead Then Smeg
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Posted - 2009.05.06 06:18:00 -
[46]
Just make the DDD cost a significant amount of isk (to a 0.0 alliance) to fire, then people might think twice about firing it for ****s and giggles on every passing frig gang, but it is still useful as a strategic weapon against big enemy blobs in large scale warfare. And if you are reading this, you have arrived at the signature without noticing...
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Anubis Xian
Reavers
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Posted - 2009.05.06 06:41:00 -
[47]
Too bad nobody keeps track of Motherships. I'd almost be willing to bet there are less of them than Titans.
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
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Noodly Appendage
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Posted - 2009.05.06 06:56:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Anubis Xian Too bad nobody keeps track of Motherships. I'd almost be willing to bet there are less of them than Titans.
They're certainly used less..
Give MS an anti-titan mod that disallows DD to be fired on grid. (mod takes a lot of cap can not be activate while inside force field)
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Mad0ne
Caldari Enterprise Estonia Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.05.06 07:28:00 -
[49]
IMO its all fine.
More and more titans = more balance. It is so easy!
Whiners are mostle small corps / alliances who cannot afford titan or cannot fly one.. so they feel kinda gimped.
Well hey.. thats the way it has to be, Train titan pilot, buy titan and get over it.
Everyone has equal options doing anything so I really dont see problem here.
Its all about politics, power, isk, fighting smart! ----------------------------------------------- Limit cloaks to cloaking ships! Or Make covert ops`s to scan prototype and improved cloaks!!!
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MullerLight
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Posted - 2009.05.06 07:53:00 -
[50]
Regarding the numerous titans using DD at once killing everything, how about some changes/ideas such as:
1) Only one DD can be used on the grid (250km i beleive) at any one time. So if numerous titans jump in, only one of them will go off.
OR
1) If numerous DD's get fired, it causes a high radiation/nuclear atmosphere on the field/grid, so any other DD's that fire off will react witht he atmosphere and deal insane amounts of damage to the titan/s? Not saying 10% armor or anything, 50-60%.
2) Once a titan has fired the DD, the titan cannot move (10 minutes?), because the energy from propulsion and other ship capabilities has been drained? (apart from defensive)
I don't fly titans, havnt seen one, just some of my ideas, open for discussion/changes obviously.
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Snow Banshee
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.05.06 08:10:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Snow Banshee on 06/05/2009 08:11:24
Originally by: MullerLight Regarding the numerous titans using DD at once killing everything, how about some changes/ideas such as:
1) Only one DD can be used on the grid (250km i beleive) at any one time. So if numerous titans jump in, only one of them will go off.
OR
1) If numerous DD's get fired, it causes a high radiation/nuclear atmosphere on the field/grid, so any other DD's that fire off will react witht he atmosphere and deal insane amounts of damage to the titan/s? Not saying 10% armor or anything, 50-60%.
2) Once a titan has fired the DD, the titan cannot move (10 minutes?), because the energy from propulsion and other ship capabilities has been drained? (apart from defensive)
I don't fly titans, havnt seen one, just some of my ideas, open for discussion/changes obviously.
Had the same idea. The whole problem is not the titan. Its DD the problem. More exactly the attempt to send multiple dd's at once. Imho ccp should implement a sort of dd countdown in a grid so if one dd has been activated nobody can activate another one before a defined time interval ( 10 mins? its just a pure example). This change require some "server side check", but i think will solve the titan fleet rush.
ATM alliances are just triing to put as bigger titan sleet they can and imho thas just wrong.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.05.06 08:38:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Tippia on 06/05/2009 08:41:25
Originally by: Zhang Shicheng Please just abandon the whole "nerf" mentality. It is the most annoying thing in this type of game. Reframe the mindset, there are other approaches to balancing.
No. That's a stupid idea.
Originally by: Mad0ne More and more titans = more balance. It is so easy!
No. More titans = less of everything else = stupid. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Ralara
Caldari DEATHFUNK Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.06 10:00:00 -
[53]
My idea is the best.
Keep the 70,000 damage they do (or whatever it is) but split it up.
DDDing 100 ships? well, they only get 700 damage each.
50 ships and it's 1400 damage each.
Have a script to focus fire on individual ships, capable of destroying other capitals (possibly super caps). --
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Master Matari
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Posted - 2009.05.06 10:05:00 -
[54]
Doomsday Devices now have a countdown, 1 minute or so which means you will need to have the enemy fleet bubbled, or you use it to send an enemy fleet packing. Countdown can be aborted at any time, to compensate, Titans can take alot more firepower through resist or rep amount bounuses. Rest of Titan is same?
???
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Delichon
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.05.06 10:07:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Malcanis
Titans should have a very large upkeep requirement (say a billion a month)
A man with a clue.
This will encourage people to put them on the line more (because you pay for it regardless of the fact if you've used it or not) This would also encourage alliances to plan how much titans they want to have over a period of time instead of having as much as they can afford at this precise moment. An alliance with no income would be forced to sell out its titans or watch their expensive toys suffer penalties.
And we also know that making new isk sinks is good :) ------------------------------------------ "Russian is an unusual language if you're not used to it. It is like speaking to angry aliens from the planet of Murder or something" Nick Breckon |
DayVV4lkEr
Liga Freier Terraner Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.05.06 10:09:00 -
[56]
Only reason why there are so many Titans are High Moons! Sounds stupid? Maybe but read the following and you will understand:
1 High Moon produces like 11 b a Month. The bigger alliances have like ate least 12 of them. That sums up to 132 b a month and that is almost 3 Titans a month (build cost wise).
To get less Titans in the game ccp only needs to do one thing. Get more High moons ingame which will result in a dyspro and pro pricecrash.
no actual need to change anything about the ship or the process of building it.
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KennethWolf
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Posted - 2009.05.06 10:11:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Mira O'karr the problem is not taking down the titans, it is catching them.
this is where the fix needs to occur.
apart from pilot mistake or spy you cant really catch them. (i suppose that goes for all ships).
maybe make them probable while cloaked.. RP it as too large of a signature to be covered by a cloak effectively?
I have other proposition make motherships moving cynojamers. Titans jump in, MS logs into the system, jams it titans cant go out, normal fleet sloughters them. It would add aditional fun in trying to defend MS/catch it before titans jump in, it would also make MS something more sensible than oversised and overpriced carier witch is usless.
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Snow Banshee
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.05.06 10:39:00 -
[58]
Originally by: DayVV4lkEr Edited by: DayVV4lkEr on 06/05/2009 10:22:23
Only reason why there are so many Titans are High Moons! Sounds stupid? Maybe but read the following and you will understand:
1 High Moon produces like 11 b a Month. The bigger alliances have like at least 12 of them. That sums up to 132 b a month and that is almost 3 Titans a month (build cost wise).
To get less Titans in the game ccp only needs to do one thing. Get more High moons ingame which will result in a dyspro and pro pricecrash.
no actual need to change anything about the ship or the process of building it.
If its only this the usage you imagine i guess you wouldn't mind the changes i suggested above.
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Ash Bringer
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Posted - 2009.05.06 11:11:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Ash Bringer on 06/05/2009 11:15:27 Titans are powerful anti-blob tools and they should be powerful but...
Remember there were no HICs when they first released. And then there was a time motherships are invul in lowsec and titans can kill every dictor with 1 DD and warps out. Remember the cries how they are end game ships with no way to kill other than game mechanics. (First 2 titans died while loged off afai remember) Then some pilot prepares a dictor especially tanked to resist 1 kind of DD and scored a titan kill...
This idea bring the light to CCP's dev team. They introduced HIC class. A DD resist kind of ship that can lauch bubble and point down MSs and titans. I think you can still tank some HICs for a few DDs. And then a few titans (solo) died
But when HICs were coming out there were not too many titans yet. So it is perfectly capable to kill a solo titan.
Now, you can't see that solo titan at all. Heck, you can't see 2 titans on field if there is no more titans to login and help in jump range... So actually game developed beyond CCPs vision of HIC tank. Now only titans you see dieing is the ones loged off ones again :) Do u see the pattern.
What we need is something that can keep Titans down .. In my case a MS with a bubble or maybe a point. And some time for that MS to arrive on scene before titans warp out or cloak in space.
As you can see it is only logical that you can hold down a 40bil ship with a 20bil ship and kill it with a dread fleet or a well prepared BS gang.
Remember even if u can bubble that 2 titans the tackler should survive all incoming titans' DDs too as aggressors should evade the new DDs from newcomers if they are in BS class. So it will be still a fierce battle risking your own MS in line in his own bubble.
Every clash with a titan will be turn into a great battlefield for sure as both sides have their multi-bil super capitals on field exactly on top of each other. OOOH I wanna watch such a fight tbh.
Edit: This will really turn into a isk sink btw as at least 1 super capital will die if it goes into tackling a titan and helped alliances to have reasonable wallets as nowadays all major alliances declares that they have soo much money that they want to buy everybody and their dogs a carrier or dread
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Qual
Gallente Cornexant Research
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Posted - 2009.05.06 12:12:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Mystafyre
* Increase build cost * Make build and research times longer
...
What do you think?
Remove the concept of Sov lvl 4. Thats the reason for teh huge number of Super caps. When you can build them without risk of loosing the tower (ok, you can, but the risk is very low) its a no brainer to do.
The huge increase in production came along with sov 4. Thats the real problem here.
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
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