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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.05.07 02:55:00 -
[1]
The "Scheme" would be quite simple and inspired by the "Ponzi Scheme" modified to mirror the lottery system. I get to keep 10% of all raw income as an administrative fee. I'm modest like that, and considering the workload, that's actually quite low.
Minimum investment 100 mil ISK, no maximum. No more than two non-zero digits per deposit as first digits, all other digits zeroes. (i.e. 130000000 ok, 103000000 not ok). Only ONE deposit per character at any one time. NOTE of the deposit should read "THE SCHEME" (all caps, nothing else). All deposits not meeting the above criteria are invalid and I get to keep them.
Everybody else gets 150% returned, sent back one month (plus/minus one day) after the deposit. Of course, only as remaining funds allow it. When cash runs out and no new deposits are made, well, that's it. If cash ever runs out, it's on a "first deposited, first served" basis.
Just so we're clear, no money is being generated by any activity except new depositers. Who gets in first gets all the goodies, who gets in the middle is playing with their luck, late-comers get shafted. The more participate, the longer it takes, and at least you know the risks well beforehand.
Simple, effective, honest.
...any takers ?
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.05.07 02:58:00 -
[2]
P.S. Full API key available for audit at the end of the business lifecycle, of course
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.05.07 03:19:00 -
[3]
What the hell, I got 100 to burn |
Brock Nelson
Caldari Flux Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2009.05.07 05:32:00 -
[4]
Hai guyz
I'm quittin eve, so I'm giving away all of my wealth, totaling 25 billion!
For every isk you send to me, I will double it!
Blueprint Store |
Estel Arador
Minmatar Estel Arador Corp Services
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Posted - 2009.05.07 05:48:00 -
[5]
I recognise an excellent opportunity when I see one!
FREE! jumpclone service - over 200 locations! |
Skaggz
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Posted - 2009.05.07 06:01:00 -
[6]
I'd be willing to fork over 500M to give it a shot. Save me a spot at the top of the list when it goes 'public'
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YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2009.05.07 07:46:00 -
[7]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 07/05/2009 07:46:34
"You seem to be honest" I'll take 100m isk.
Black Sun Empire |
Klyria
Minmatar Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.05.07 08:35:00 -
[8]
Last I heard ponzi schemes were specifically mentioned in the EULA as a bannable offense. As this comes dangerously close to a ponzi scheme, albeit an upfront one, you might want to send a petition off to get an answer on this.
That being said, I'd throw some ISK into this if it does pan out.
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Alex555
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Posted - 2009.05.07 08:37:00 -
[9]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMM_(Ponzi_scheme)
that's a bit of history
As for Akita's intentions I may conclude that there are too much isks around and bunch of people ready to give isks away for free.
I am really intrested whether this "IPO" works out. If yes, then I can assure everyone that every second long lasting ipo will be using the same "scheme"
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Dzil
Caldari Second Quadrant Ice Division
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Posted - 2009.05.07 14:01:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Klyria Last I heard ponzi schemes were specifically mentioned in the EULA as a bannable offense. As this comes dangerously close to a ponzi scheme, albeit an upfront one, you might want to send a petition off to get an answer on this.
That being said, I'd throw some ISK into this if it does pan out.
Care to find and quote the passage?
Ponzi schemes are illegal in the United States, but within the game I didn't think they were any more illegal then any other scam. The only scams I've heard of CCP getting involved with are those either involving a microtransaction (character and GTC code exchanges) or involving impersination of another player/GM.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.05.07 14:23:00 -
[11]
Ponzi schemes forbidden in EVE ? Nah, just a bunch of angry people when the scheme falls flat after they thought it's a legitimate business. Or so I always thought... let's check...
The EULA. Nope, not in here. The TOS. Not here either. Forum rules. Can't say I see it.
You must be thinking of other games, or some specific subforums, or some obscure rule that was abandoned...
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Drab Cane
Mining Emporium inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.07 15:37:00 -
[12]
If you get early investors to recruit later investors, you have something close to a pyramid scheme, or Multi-Level Marketing (MLM). -----------------------------------------------
- Who Dares, Wins
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Kapila Parthalan
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.05.08 00:31:00 -
[13]
While this is an interesting idea, there are serious problems with the scheme. In a real Ponzi scheme, little information is known about the scheme, so there are few initial investors. When they receive payments, others are more willing to participate and investment increases. In your scheme, we already know exactly what will happen. Anybody who wants to invest in this will try to get in first so they are first in line for payments. I can't see any reason to invest later, so I predict that your scheme will collapse immediately after the first month ends. Now, if you can reserve a spot for me as one of the first investors, I would love to invest Also, I don't see how this is related to a lottery at all, aside from the fact that the investors lose money on average.
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Pang Grohl
Gallente Sudo Corp
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Posted - 2009.05.08 00:49:00 -
[14]
What happens if the fund drops below your minimum fund level?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.05.08 09:07:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kapila Parthalan I can't see any reason to invest later, so I predict that your scheme will collapse immediately after the first month ends.
Well, if I would drop the interest rate to, say, 10% per month and reduce my cut a bit too... long story short, you're underestimating the huge amount of ISK that's just "sitting there" in many people's wallets.
Quote: Now, if you can reserve a spot for me as one of the first investors, I would love to invest
If/when it starts, first deposited, first served
Quote: Also, I don't see how this is related to a lottery at all, aside from the fact that the investors lose money on average.
Except the fact in lotteries investors also lose money on average, but it's random ?
Originally by: Pang Grohl What happens if the fund drops below your minimum fund level?
Like I said, I get a take of the INCOME (so as soon as a deposit is made, I take my cut), and everything else gets redistributed with the announced delay on a "first deposited, first served" basis.
If funds run dry for a short while (a couple of days, a week), payments get paused/delayed. If funds run dry for a long time (about a month), business announces closure and full API key gets presented for audit.
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Klyria
Minmatar Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.05.08 09:21:00 -
[16]
Seems I was given some faulty information from a corp mate or two... apologies for that.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.05.09 12:21:00 -
[17]
Oh well, seems that not enough people are interested to justify this (a new account just for it), not even for laughs.
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Kapila Parthalan
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.05.09 14:33:00 -
[18]
To make this really work, we would need to get more people outside of MD to invest as well. We MD people should invest first, then convince lots of other people to join in later, possibly by showing them the huge profits we get after the first month.
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Drab Cane
Mining Emporium inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.09 17:28:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Drab Cane on 09/05/2009 17:33:24 Akita, you could actually make the scheme more viable by:
1) Reduce the payout to 120%
2) 'Batch' the investments by week. The investors in the first week would be able to cash out one month from the end of the week. The investors in the secound week could cash out a month from the end of their week, and so on.
3) Limit the first week to relatively few investors, with a top limit of investment. Slowly expand the number of allowed investors each week. This would build perceived value of the investment opportunity.
4) Post weekly 'statement' showing how much was invested in each week, and how much that week's investments have grown.
The idea would be to build anticipation and momentum in the investment community.
Edit: addition of weekly investor limit, corrected formatting.
-----------------------------------------------
- Who Dares, Wins
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Selene D'Celeste
Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.05.09 19:16:00 -
[20]
Hmm, interesting. The biggest hurdle to making this work is there has to be some incentive to people getting others in, as well as a way to convince them in the skeptical environment that is EVE. People with money in EVE are going to be much more wary than say, innocents in RL who also feel they are protected by the government, etc.
Some of what Drab Cane says would help with getting this to work. If anything, you would want it to play out like a stock. "Oh god look at how much was invested this week, maybe I should jump on it now because if it keeps expanding at this rate I'll certainly get money" then "Oh oh, this week was down a little in investment, is it worth investing now?".
It's a novel idea, I'm just not sure how you'd get enough steam in it to make it worthwhile since, you know, this is a fun experiment and not a real ponzi scheme where deceit accomplishes that goal.
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Skaggz
Hooride Raiders
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Posted - 2009.05.10 03:02:00 -
[21]
What Drab Cane and Selene D'Celeste said is correct. In order for this to to really work it most likely has to be an actual 'scam'. It needs to appear as a legitimate IPO but with an underlying agenda that only a select few initial investors would know about.
I don't personally know you Akita, but from what I've seen you have a pretty positive reputation within the EVE community. Thats why I was ready to invest a relativly substantial amount for the first round, fully knowing what this will ultimatly lead to.
I think that RaWBlooD was trying to pull off the same type of 'scam' when he was constantly fishing the SCC-Lounge for investors and offering a rather large return (17% or something like that). I had no desire to invest in him, partly because of his 'agressive' search for investors, and also because I can't stand him. I don't know if he actually got any investors, I highly doubt it though.
Just my 0.02 ISK
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