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Cheekything
Gallente
Fallen Angel's
Blade.
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Posted - 2009.05.07 03:39:00 -
[1]
I know there is probally loads of threads prior to this but none which are even active that i can see.
Ok the benefit of an Eos are:
It gives a bonus to EWAR gang link modules - which we all love.
It has nice resists for Kin/Therm. - Not that great for a bonus but still it's nice
this is it...
The down sides or why people dont use them:
They have no drone bonuses... - Ishtars bigger cousin it is not
They cannot field 5 heavy drones why? they have no bonuses....
They only have 6 lows and 4 mids.. - The Myrm has more mids which is frankly bizzare.
 Quote:
As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Eos can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones.
This is not the case it can use 6 mediums guns with only 3 heavy/ 5 medium drones... of which a brutix can do the same if not more DPS.
Also noted the 15m3 drone bay "bonus" is not worth anything.....
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Changes I can suggest to make it more in line with a real Command ships.
Give it 2 or 3 of the following.
5%/7.5%/10% drone bonus per a level - This is due to it needing some sort of drone damage mod even if it is small which make it not really a drone boat.
10 drone control cpu per level of Commandship - This mean that at level 5 you can use 5 heavy drones which is frankly fair.
1 extra mid slot - For the extra cap etc.
change 7.5% rep bonus to 10% per level.
5km to drone control range per level of Command Ship.
These changes are to actually make it worth flying the ship.
Note not of all these are viable but it's for musing.
Personally to make it a good fair ship i'd give it the following
7.5 drone bonus per a level of battlecruiser
10 drone control cpu per command ship level
1 extra mid slot
This means it is officially a drone boat.
Personally I think it needs to be more inline with the ishtar as currently it isn't the best tanking command ship and it has one of the worst damages as well.
I also understand it can't be better than the other Command ships of it's line but as it stands it shouldn't be worse than it's tier 2 counterpart.
Views and feedback.
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Calgura
Gallente
Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.07 06:41:00 -
[2]
I disagree. If you look at the fleet command ships, they're all heavy tankers, but relatively little damage. That's because they're used for giving boni, of which the Eos does quite fine. I know I take my Eos for a spin whenever I'm in a group that's EWAR-heavy.
Giving it the capability to field 5 heavy drones will make it like it was before, a solo-pwnmobile, which none of the fleetcommandships are.
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Tvaishk Suzuki
Long Night Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.07 08:18:00 -
[3]
While I've not really got a stance on the idea your proposing I thought I'd mention that the Eos used to be able to field 5 Heavies.... it was hit with the nerf bat some time ago mainly because it could out damage its Assault counterpart because of those drones.
---
Lieutenant, Mixed Metaphor
Appliance Man |
Cheekything
Gallente
Fallen Angel's
Blade.
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 16:51:00 -
[4]
The thing is the Eos can't tank effectively like it's counter parts, also it's not a drone boat and it gets out dpsed by it's tech 1 counter parts.
Granted you expect to be in a EWAR heavy gang but when a expensive ship has no real defence what is it meant to do?
Also what I'm suggesting isn't give it 5 heavy drones it's give it the chance too field 5 heavy drones or get a small damage bonus.
The reason for the 10 CPU per a level is that if you want the full 5 drone effect you need to train the skill up to 5.
Also when you can already field 5 heavy drones + 50% damage on the ishtar and domi spending 40 days to make the command ships skill to do the same may seem inefficient as you could be only getting 5 with a 25% or 37.5% increase.
Frankly the 5% turret damage can disappear as that is next to useless.
My main issues with the ship is that it can hardly tank and its meant to be a drone boat yet ... has no skills for it.
Some of you may be happy with it already but i'm sure the majority aren't.
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Kel Nissa
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Posted - 2009.05.07 17:28:00 -
[5]
The fact that you are looking to its DPS alone means that you did not understand its role.
regards
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Cheekything
Gallente
Fallen Angel's
Blade.
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Posted - 2009.05.07 17:36:00 -
[6]
I'm mainly looking at it's own description not the player designated role.
Which states it scarifies a bit of tank for drones.
The only real way to make it a "better" tank would be to add an extra mid and low slot or increase the rep bonus.
But since this would contradict the description then a bonus to damage since it'd maybe be more useful.
However maybe instead of a drone damage bonus maybe I should suggest a EWAR drone bonus instead as then it'd become a ewar ship as well.
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Cain m
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.05.07 19:13:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Cheekything
I'm mainly looking at it's own description not the player designated role.
There's your problem right there.
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Nikuno
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Posted - 2009.05.07 21:36:00 -
[8]
The Eos is bottom of the pile, and nobody really wants to fix it. Cross train amarr.
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Cheekything
Gallente
Fallen Angel's
Blade.
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Posted - 2009.05.08 05:38:00 -
[9]
Thank you but i'm not intrested in people whining about what i've said I'd rather get feedback not whiney flamers ta.
So decent feedback please.
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Nikuno
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Posted - 2009.05.08 08:58:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Nikuno on 08/05/2009 08:58:20
That wasn't a whine, simply a statement of fact.
Look, you already know the Eos is bottom of the pile for it's ship class, that's why you started this thread in the first place. Something always has to be worst, while something else always has to be best. This may be absolute or it may be situational, but it is usually varying according to what CCP last nerfed.
The only thing you have on your side is that you aren't restricted to which racial ships you can use. So when the Eos was God-like with 5 heavy drones I could fly that. Now I get more joy from the Amarr equivalent so I trained to fly that. At some point it may be the Caldari or Minmatar versions and guess what? I'll train those too.
I'd love the Eos to be restored in some form, my own personal preferrence would be for a different set of Gang bonuses, I feel that with ew being so utterly rubbish right now that the bonuses are equally useless.
So please, stop whining about the ship, and whining about other people whining about your whining about the ship. Go train something, fly it, kill people. That's what Eve's all about.
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Rukia KuchikiSan
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Posted - 2009.05.08 10:35:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Nikuno
my own personal preferrence would be for a different set of Gang bonuses
This.
I never wanted a solo-pwnmobile, but having a useful bonus would be just nice.
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Kel Nissa
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Posted - 2009.05.08 16:51:00 -
[12]
So you think that a fleet-wide ECCM is not worth to use?
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Alternative Realities
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Posted - 2009.05.08 17:49:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 08/05/2009 17:56:22
Originally by: Kel Nissa
So you think that a fleet-wide ECCM is not worth to use?
Well, it is indeed very situational.
Originally by: Nikuno
Something always has to be worst, while something else always has to be best.
I humbly disagree. While it might actually be that way most of the time, it really doesn't have to.
In a well balanced system everything has it's advantages and disadvantages. That should be the goal.
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
Nikuno
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Posted - 2009.05.08 20:08:00 -
[14]
If everything has advantages and disadvantages, and they're different to each other, then one will be better and one will be worse for a given situation.
And a fleet wide eccm? Have you seen how patheticly small the bonus is? Yes, I do think it's a waste of space.
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Kel Nissa
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Posted - 2009.05.08 23:09:00 -
[15]
Quote:
Have you seen how patheticly
Same percentage as the bonus of every other fleet command ship.
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Alternative Realities
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Posted - 2009.05.09 01:33:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Nikuno
(..) for a given situation (..)
Information not given in your previous statement.
It looked rather undifferentiated.
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
Cheekything
Gallente
Fallen Angel's
Blade.
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Posted - 2009.05.09 01:59:00 -
[17]
It's kind of ironic how the Eos doesn't use armour warlinks as well since the Erbus gives an armour bonus.
But still IMO all ships in the game should have a set role and still be useable rather than docked up in a POS afking.... this may be helpful but useless.
Also note i'm only making suggestion on how to improve it so it is useable, I am in no way saying make it a elite solo pawn ship.
I am instead saying hey here is a sexy looking ship that gives cool bonuses... but is useless outside of huge fleets of recons give it a secondary role as a ratting, plexing mild pvp ship that is worth it's huge price tag.
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ChiefOBrien
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Posted - 2009.05.09 05:35:00 -
[18]
why is the damnation the only fleet command ship with a dual tank bonus?
I think this is the area that needs to be balanced for the other races
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Kel Nissa
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Posted - 2009.05.09 14:15:00 -
[19]
Quote:
why is the damnation the only fleet command ship with a dual tank bonus?
Is it? All 4 command ships got warfare bonus improving their tank.
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silken mouth
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Posted - 2009.05.09 17:11:00 -
[20]
Edited by: silken mouth on 09/05/2009 17:13:02
i am afraid the op is right, all other field command ships are better by their bonuses than the eos. they either receive one attack and two tanking bonuses (damnation) or two attack and one tanking bonus (vulture, claymore), while the eos gets a hybrid attack bonus (drone boat?) and some sort of fitting bonus for drones (15m¦ per level is crap) and one tanking bonus.
my recomendation:
bc bonuses :
10% bonus to drone speed, tracking and optimal
7,5% bonus to armor repairer effectiveness
cs bonuses :
25m¦ and mbit per level
3% warfare link bonuses
no turret or missile slots
250m¦ base dronebay
0mbit base bandwith
this gives the now gimped ship a nice role as a jack of all trades, without making it to powerful.
on a sidenote, imho the myrm should have his bandwith increased to 100mbit.
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GeneralMartok
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.05.09 17:35:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kel Nissa
Quote:
why is the damnation the only fleet command ship with a dual tank bonus?
Is it? All 4 command ships got warfare bonus improving their tank.
wouldn't that give the damnation a triple tanking bonus?
Hab SoSlI' Quch! |
silken mouth
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Posted - 2009.05.09 17:52:00 -
[22]
defacto yes, and the vulture actually gets two tanking bonuses. however these only apply if in a fleet being at least squadleader with one squad member.
note that kel is incorrect, neither eos nor claymore have a warfare tanking bonus
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Kel Nissa
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Posted - 2009.05.09 19:19:00 -
[23]
Quote:
note that kel is incorrect, neither eos nor claymore have a warfare tanking bonus
all 4 can fit warfare link for this purpose - only the eos got a boni for it
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silken mouth
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Posted - 2009.05.09 19:32:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kel Nissa
Quote:
note that kel is incorrect, neither eos nor claymore have a warfare tanking bonus
all 4 can fit warfare link for this purpose - only the eos got a boni for it
damnation and vulture have boni for it, the eos does not. and thats exactly the point.
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GeneralMartok
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.05.09 20:01:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kel Nissa
Quote:
note that kel is incorrect, neither eos nor claymore have a warfare tanking bonus
all 4 can fit warfare link for this purpose - only the eos got a boni for it
if you're counting the ability to fit links as a bonus, the damnation is triple bonused, and the point is reinforced further.
you could add a hitpoint bonus to the vulture, and a resist bonus to the eos/claymore and it would be balanced to the damnation
or remove the HP bonus on the damnation.
Hab SoSlI' Quch! |
silken mouth
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Posted - 2009.05.09 20:09:00 -
[26]
Edited by: silken mouth on 09/05/2009 20:10:20
Originally by: GeneralMartok
Originally by: Kel Nissa
Quote:
note that kel is incorrect, neither eos nor claymore have a warfare tanking bonus
all 4 can fit warfare link for this purpose - only the eos got a boni for it
if you're counting the ability to fit links as a bonus, the damnation is triple bonused, and the point is reinforced further.
you could add a hitpoint bonus to the vulture, and a resist bonus to the eos/claymore and it would be balanced to the damnation
or remove the HP bonus on the damnation.
what are you trying to say????
damnation = bc sacrilege
vulture = bc eagle
claymore = bc muninn
eos = bc ...what? ishkur?
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GeneralMartok
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.05.09 20:15:00 -
[27]
Originally by: silken mouth
Edited by: silken mouth on 09/05/2009 20:10:20
Originally by: GeneralMartok
Originally by: Kel Nissa
Quote:
note that kel is incorrect, neither eos nor claymore have a warfare tanking bonus
all 4 can fit warfare link for this purpose - only the eos got a boni for it
if you're counting the ability to fit links as a bonus, the damnation is triple bonused, and the point is reinforced further.
you could add a hitpoint bonus to the vulture, and a resist bonus to the eos/claymore and it would be balanced to the damnation
or remove the HP bonus on the damnation.
what are you trying to say????
damnation = bc sacrilege
vulture = bc eagle
claymore = bc muninn
eos = bc ...what? ishkur?
I'm trying to say the damnation should lose one of it's bonuses, or the other 3 should get a second tanking bonus
Hab SoSlI' Quch! |
silken mouth
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Posted - 2009.05.09 20:20:00 -
[28]
sorry but i cant agree with that!
the damnation has two defense and one offense bonus, whily claymore and vulture have two offense and one defense bonus.
the eos has only one defense and one offense bonus, which is why it deserves a boost.
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GeneralMartok
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.05.09 20:27:00 -
[29]
Originally by: silken mouth
sorry but i cant agree with that!
the damnation has two defense and one offense bonus, whily claymore and vulture have two offense and one defense bonus.
the eos has only one defense and one offense bonus, which is why it deserves a boost.
would you agree with changing the damnations HP bonus to another missile bonus?
the damnations EHP potential is not balanced IMO
Hab SoSlI' Quch! |
silken mouth
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Posted - 2009.05.09 20:48:00 -
[30]
i dont see the reason for that, because the damnation trades the EHP by being flawed by the missile flight time. it cannot hit fast targets at distance, which vulture and claymore can.
this means that its more suited for close range standoff, while the vulture is more suited for sniper roles. the claymore has good bonuses for fast moving engagements. but the eos is is only good for losing isk.
the changes i mentioned above will place the eos somwhere in between, it will be good at range with sentry drones, good at close range with ogres and dangerous for fast movers with warriors.
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