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Kaikka Carel
White syndicate
46
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Posted - 2012.05.09 14:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
... and cruisers do not carry infantry.
Jokes aside BCs:
- Have good damage potential. - Have enough staying power to apply said damage. - Mobile(all setups have MWD) or have a good reach(Drake). - Cost effective.
Now CCP promises to remove the tier system and all the Augrors, Omens and Belicoses will have their slots, PG, CPU and bonuses to do their job.
But what about battle cruisers? Ok maybe my Omen gets enough PG to fit an MWD, Cap Booster, 800mm plate and a rack of FMPLs. But I stil willl:
- Have less damage potential than a Harbinger. - Have not enough staying power. - Lose more money compared to a Battlecruiser if I get popped.
So basically I spend more resources(not only isk but logistics and time included) to achieve less output.
What is the niche of T1 cruisers? Where do they excel and outshine the ships of other classes?
OR
What should we do to make them viable alongside Main Battlecruisers? |
Wingmate
Raven's Flight Vanguard.
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 15:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
cruisers are significantly faster and more agile than BCs, and cost way less than HACs. they're meant to add punch and tank to a frigate gang, in the same way that BSes add punch and tank to a BC gang, without sacrificing the 4-5s warp time that most frigate gangs use to stay mobile and ahead of the competition. losing one fully fitted also costs less than a BC hull alone.
alternatively, babydrakes (like caracals) are cheap and can fit long-range heavy missiles easily. three caracals is the equivalent of two drakes in terms of damage, and costs way less. it's also way, way more mobile, and allows for more fleet flexibility because of the agility and ability to kite.
also, a mwd-ing cruiser is usually up past 2km/s, whereas most BCs can't break 1400m/s. so it can function as a heavy tackle when you don't want to use (and lose) an assault ship. |
Aesheera
Malum Crusis
31
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Posted - 2012.05.09 15:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
They are also 'just' T1 cruisers.
For their value, they get plenty of performance.
So whats the next topic going to be Kaika?
Industrials need more tank because they can haul so much potentially expensive stuff? Malum Crusis is recruiting!
FREE Merc work offered*
Details available via EVEmail or ingame convo. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
941
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 15:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Battlecruisers as they are do everything cruisers do, but better. The reason crusiers are/will be viable are that cruisers can be fit to imitate BCs in a single particular aspect (Rupture can do Hurricane DPS if it sacrifices other things, for example), while being far cheaper.
Cruisers should also be much faster and more agile compared to BCs (with nano BCs being particularly egregious) so as to provide a reason to use a cruiser instead of a BC when you need a fast-moving ship with more punch than a frigate hull. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Jerick Ludhowe
Wraiths of Abaddon
68
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Posted - 2012.05.09 15:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Wingmate wrote: losing one fully fitted also costs less than a BC hull alone.
Not true.... t2 fit and rigged cruisers cost you maybe 10m less to loose compared to an insured bc.
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Wingmate
Raven's Flight Vanguard.
4
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Posted - 2012.05.09 15:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
a t2 fit rupture costs ~30m depending on how you fit it. how much do canes cost nowadays? |
Kaikka Carel
White syndicate
46
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 16:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
Aesheera wrote:They are also 'just' T1 cruisers. ANSWER: It's a T1 Cruiser.
Yeah the answer to all questions.
Aesheera wrote:ANSWER: Doesn't make any sense, so could result in another question regarding how you come to that conclusion. (which in return would be recieving a similar answer so not going there.)
My bad forgot to say per perfomance I get out of it.(Actual dealt/tanked damage)
Aesheera wrote:And I still disagree about the spending-more thing.
Well I stated my points in this regard.
Aesheera wrote:It's a low-skill investment choice of ship that cost-wise is pretty negligable.
Battlecruiser is only one skill away from a cruiser.
[quote=AesheeraSo whats the next topic going to be Kaikka? Industrials need more tank because they can haul so much potentially expensive stuff?
Yes and a tornado-proof minning battleship :) [/quote] |
Kaikka Carel
White syndicate
46
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 16:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
Wingmate wrote: cruisers are significantly faster and more agile than BCs, and cost way less than HACs. they're meant to add punch and tank to a frigate gang, in the same way that BSes add punch and tank to a BC gang, without sacrificing the 4-5s warp time that most frigate gangs use to stay mobile and ahead of the competition. losing one fully fitted also costs less than a BC hull alone.
Now that's a good reasoning. But still ain't you're better off with AFs? Cruisers can still be caught at camps with SBd ships.
Wingmate wrote:alternatively, babydrakes (like caracals) are cheap and can fit long-range heavy missiles easily. three caracals is the equivalent of two drakes in terms of damage, and costs way less. it's also way, way more mobile, and allows for more fleet flexibility because of the agility and ability to kite.
How about those Caracals kiting a Drake? I'm pretty sure it'll have more EHP then the three combined and will simply force them out of engagment which means that one man(real player) is worth more in a Drake than three would in Caracals unless they field some sort of tactic which turns both numbers and Caracals strong sides(speed and sig) into enough advantage to not use a Drake.
Wingmate wrote:also, a mwd-ing cruiser is usually up past 2km/s, whereas most BCs can't break 1400m/s. so it can function as a heavy tackle when you don't want to use (and lose) an assault ship.
Isn't AF or Interceptor going to have more staying power due to bonused MWDs? Just asking.
Wingmate wrote:a t2 fit rupture costs ~30m depending on how you fit it. how much do canes cost nowadays?
67m for an Armor Cane Jita-price. +8m insurance and a 30m payout which results in 45m total loss.
Also what good those 22m will do if I merely go doing in fires in the first minute of engagement? |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
82
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Posted - 2012.05.09 16:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Easy, BC's are supposed to be heavy frontline cruisers so tweak them to fill that role.
Hit them with -50% tracking/explosion radius, reduce their speed a tad and increase their sensor stats (closer to cruiser lock times). - Puts their damage application and battlefield mobility somewhere between cruisers and BS rather than being as almost as fast as cruisers with near BS damage (minus range). Caveat: depending on what the tiericide results are, the above might only be necessary for the tier2 BCs thus acting as incentive to use the 'lesser' BC.
PS: Also "Lol" at a Cruiser being able to cover one aspect of a BC by making sacrifices .. they are faster and smaller but that is the extent of it, they can never, ever achieve same EHP or damage (would love to see the Ruppie fit that supposedly equals the Cane in damage though). |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
941
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 16:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:PS: Also "Lol" at a Cruiser being able to cover one aspect of a BC by making sacrifices .. they are faster and smaller but that is the extent of it, they can never, ever achieve same EHP or damage (would love to see the Ruppie fit that supposedly equals the Cane in damage though). Hmm... I suppose I was wrong, I can only make a reasonable Rupture fit go up to about 500 dps. Still, that's not bad for an 8 mil hull. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
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Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
17
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Posted - 2012.05.09 16:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Battlecruisers as they are do everything cruisers do, but better. The reason crusiers are/will be viable are that cruisers can be fit to imitate BCs in a single particular aspect (Rupture can do Hurricane DPS if it sacrifices other things, for example), while being far cheaper.
If only Destroyers were more diverse, couldn't that be said about the Frigate/Destroyer relationship too? |
Kaikka Carel
White syndicate
46
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 16:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
@Veshta Yoshida I don't believe such harsh nerfs are the way out.
Also I don;t believe that the problem is in the BCs. As the title of this thread says: Battlecruisers are Main Battle Tanks of EVE and without them it would suck. The problem is in the cruisers which are outdated. If you need common dps and staying power use BCs, if you also need more speed you're better with HACs/T3.
IRL military/navy just decommission such stuff.
@Petrus Blackshell
It would be good. But I am pretty sure it will die before I can have fun with it. And even faster if I sacrifice those little bits of tank. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
941
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 16:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Battlecruisers as they are do everything cruisers do, but better. The reason crusiers are/will be viable are that cruisers can be fit to imitate BCs in a single particular aspect (Rupture can do Hurricane DPS if it sacrifices other things, for example), while being far cheaper. If only Destroyers were more diverse, couldn't that be said about the Frigate/Destroyer relationship too? Nope, destroyers as they are do not do everything frigates do, only better. They make significant sacrifices in speed, agility, signature radius (and thus tank), for their one shtick: dealing large amounts of damage using small guns. Destroyers are vulnerable to anything that is not a frigate -- they pop instantly to other destroyers, and do not have enough firepower to pose a serious threat to cruisers or above, while being big and slow enough to easily hit using bigger guns.
Battlecruisers are not that much slower than cruisers (and some BCs are actually faster than some cruisers), not that much bigger in sig radius (Drake excepting), much better at tanking, damage, and generally being useful in ye olde average PvP situation. They are often not even surpassed in their abilities by the specialized T2 HACs. This is exacerbated by the relative rarity of battleships, which are the only ship class that can kill BCs with relative ease.
Tier 3 battlecruisers are closer to comparing to cruisers in the way destroyers compare to frigates. If Tier 3 BCs had medium guns instead of large guns, the comparison would be very accurate. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
941
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 16:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
Kaikka Carel wrote: @Petrus Blackshell
It would be good. But I am pretty sure it will die before I can have fun with it. And even faster if I sacrifice those little bits of tank.
If you're rolling with scarier ships, or ships that provide tastier killmails, you'd be surprised how many people ignore the Rupture. Same goes for a lot of other underrated ships. Try flying a Sentinel in a fleet sometime and see how many people ever even bother to shoot you. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Jayrendo Karr
Suns Of Korhal Terran Commonwealth
100
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 16:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
Fix the Moa and Caracel please. |
Wingmate
Raven's Flight Vanguard.
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 16:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
cruisers cost 1/3-1/2 of an AF, and can either fit more dps or more tank. a smart cruiser pilot can kill an average AF pilot most of the time. also, anything can be caught with sebo'd ships. cruisers are just cheaper while maintaining versatility and dps =)
caracals can't out-tank AND out-dps something like that - remember, they're not full battlecruisers. they're not going to go toe-to-toe with BCs any more than AFs are. the idea is that they add punch and range to an otherwise fast and mobile fleet.
you can get 50k EHP out of a Rupture with a micro and be up past 2km/s. can't do that with an AF. the sig radius bonus makes a difference, of course, but a rupture costs half of an AF and can be effectively piloted by a trial pilot. an AF can't. overall, they're an excellent low-SP alternative to t2 frigs and add DPS (or tank) and range to small-ship small-gang roams. |
Kaikka Carel
White syndicate
46
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 17:05:00 -
[17] - Quote
@Wingmate I can fit a Rupture to almost 50k ehp but it flies 1236m/s at all5.
Otherwise good reasoning. |
Alara IonStorm
2099
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 18:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
Cruisers don't have a problem. They have abut 10 problems spread across 16 different hulls.
- The Shield Hurricane is plain out faster or so close to there speed it doesn't matter. It is faster then every armor fit T1 Cruisers and has a higher MWD speed then the Moa. Most people try to Shield Fit Armor Cruisers because they are so slow.
- Battlecruisers can pretty much perma run there MWD while Cruisers last a couple of minutes. Most have to get close to there pray. Duel Neut Cane eats them and most don't have the free slots and fitting to host a Cap Booster. Many of them have Guns that take Capacitor.
- Poor bonuses and slot layouts. 3-3 Stabber is a joke. Most people use the Rupture for kitting because of it. 1 Dmg Bonus, 4 Turrets and 5m3 Drone Bay...
- Terrible Fitting for half of them. Omen, Caracal, Stabber. Thorax has gotten a little better.
- Tier 1's often can't do there job do to Cap, Fitting, Split Bonuses, Slots. Basically because of Tiers.
- Half the EWAR Ships are ineffective. The Arbitrator is considered Amarr's best Combat Cruisers which says something.
- Battlecruisers have more slots to make up the difference in base stats. Sebo's and Nano's.
- Insurance covers much of the loss. It is 4 Medium Modules difference in cost between them.
- Finally people in this thread use the word throw away... For a class of Ships. Not they have there own advantages that make them respectable but throw away. Cost is not a factor in T1 Balance role is. The Hurricane is basically the good Cruiser.
---
Cruisers are broken and most newbies train right past them for PvP on there way to the easily affordable Hurricane unless they are training a Tengu alt. This isn't my opinion but the head of CCP's Balance team CCP Yitterbaum who stated so in the CSM Minutes.
Cruisers need to fixed. The need different ajustments on a Ship by Ship basis if they are going to be more effective in the Cruiser role then the Shield Cane Battlecruiser is.
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Kalli Brixzat
25
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 19:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
Yes, BC's are the main battle tank of the EvE universe because they are generally powerful, well-balanced and plentiful.
Cruiser hulls (most of them, anyway) are just fine. They serve their intended purpose for the most part, and often do it VERY well. If you're getting into a T1 cruiser and expecting an exquisitely-balanced design that is good to excellent at everything, you're coming in with the wrong mentality. Thus, you can QQ about T1 Cruisers being bad ships.
A T1 cruiser in the right hands, with the "right" fit (not the BIS fit), can be lethal in PvP.
From my own personal experience, my Assault Caracal lays waste to pretty much any frig or destroyer that happens to be within 50km. Most of the time, my tank doesn't even matter (it's respectable). They're dead before they get close enough to pew pew. As for Cruiser vs. Cruiser, depends on the match up. Cruiser vs. BC...well, the cruiser is not "supposed to" win. Doesn't mean it won't. |
Butzewutze
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 19:29:00 -
[20] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:PS: Also "Lol" at a Cruiser being able to cover one aspect of a BC by making sacrifices .. they are faster and smaller but that is the extent of it, they can never, ever achieve same EHP or damage (would love to see the Ruppie fit that supposedly equals the Cane in damage though). Hmm... I suppose I was wrong, I can only make a reasonable Rupture fit go up to about 500 dps. Still, that's not bad for an 8 mil hull.
Let me present you the 733 dps Rupture:
[Rupture, New Setup 9] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Damage Control II
10MN MicroWarpdrive I J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Large Shield Extender II
425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Assault Missile
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Hammerhead II x1 Hobgoblin II x4
Turrets: 459 DPS ( Overloaded : 528 DPS) Missiles: 80 DPS ( Overloaded : 94 DPS) Drones: 110 DPS
Dont look at EHP tho. |
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Kalli Brixzat
25
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 19:37:00 -
[21] - Quote
Butzewutze wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:PS: Also "Lol" at a Cruiser being able to cover one aspect of a BC by making sacrifices .. they are faster and smaller but that is the extent of it, they can never, ever achieve same EHP or damage (would love to see the Ruppie fit that supposedly equals the Cane in damage though). Hmm... I suppose I was wrong, I can only make a reasonable Rupture fit go up to about 500 dps. Still, that's not bad for an 8 mil hull. Let me present you the 733 dps Rupture: [Rupture, New Setup 9] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Damage Control II 10MN MicroWarpdrive I J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Large Shield Extender II 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Assault Missile Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Hammerhead II x1 Hobgoblin II x4 Turrets: 459 DPS ( Overloaded : 528 DPS) Missiles: 80 DPS ( Overloaded : 94 DPS) Drones: 110 DPS Dont look at EHP tho.
Solid fit. Don't look at the EHP, huh? lol why, because this is almost tankless, perhaps?
Rupture has just north of 1500 shield HP base and north of 16 armor HP base. Those Extender rigs give %-based increases. In other words, totally useless here. That, and the last thing a T1 Cruiser with a shyte tank needs is sig-bloom. Get rid of them.
Keep teh Anti-EM rig if you must. Fit a prop frig an A/C rig (damage or RoF- your choice). LSE II is fine. That, plus the speed, is all the tank you rightfully need. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
945
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 19:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:reasonable Rupture fit
Butzewutze wrote:Let me present you the 733 dps Rupture: That will get killed by a single frigate. I could set up a Hurricane to do as much damage as a Sleipnir does, but that would be a bad idea because that ship would suck. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Tazarak theDeceiver
Hooded Underworld Guys Northern Associates.
22
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 20:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
Battlecruisers are what's right with Eve. For the cost of one recon or logistic boat, I can go out and burn 5-6 drakes and have hours of endless fun fighting.
Buff up low cost ships... really wish cruisers were stronger and there were battle logistics and recons which were in the 40-50m isk price range to fly.
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Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
161
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 20:06:00 -
[24] - Quote
Just because cruisers arent battlecruisers it doesent make them useless or bad.
Looking forward to next patch and tiercide. |
Wingmate
Raven's Flight Vanguard.
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 20:28:00 -
[25] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:That will get killed by a single frigate. I could set up a Hurricane to do as much damage as a Sleipnir does, but that would be a bad idea because that ship would suck.
sure, but it's great for DPS in pve situations! =)
not that a tier-3 BC isn't better, but what the heck? fly something different for a change. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
946
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 20:32:00 -
[26] - Quote
Wingmate wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:That will get killed by a single frigate. I could set up a Hurricane to do as much damage as a Sleipnir does, but that would be a bad idea because that ship would suck. sure, but it's great for DPS in pve situations! =) not that a tier-3 BC isn't better, but what the heck? fly something different for a change. Meh, it's great for DPS in PvP situations where you're sure you won't get shot, and you're shooting at something you can hit with Hail in 425mm guns. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Zyress
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
67
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 20:32:00 -
[27] - Quote
Wingmate wrote:cruisers are significantly faster and more agile than BCs, and cost way less than HACs. they're meant to add punch and tank to a frigate gang, in the same way that BSes add punch and tank to a BC gang, without sacrificing the 4-5s warp time that most frigate gangs use to stay mobile and ahead of the competition. losing one fully fitted also costs less than a BC hull alone.
alternatively, babydrakes (like caracals) are cheap and can fit long-range heavy missiles easily. three caracals is the equivalent of two drakes in terms of damage, and costs way less. it's also way, way more mobile, and allows for more fleet flexibility because of the agility and ability to kite.
also, a mwd-ing cruiser is usually up past 2km/s, whereas most BCs can't break 1400m/s. so it can function as a heavy tackle when you don't want to use (and lose) an assault ship.
Actually I have to call BS here, or partial BS anyway, Perhaps its true of non Matari Battlecruisers, a mwd on a Caracal without other speed mods gets you 1387 m/s and a mwd on a Hurricane without other speed mods gets you 1311 m/s this is not significantly faster, while the Caracal will align 3.1 seconds faster the hurricane isn't trying to orbit you tightly if you are in a cruser, he's coming straight at you as fast as he can. Better tracking for his guns and he out tanks you. Bear in mind that Caldari ships are among the most agile in their class, typically about tied with Minmatar ships of the same class in agility and you realize that the agility benefit of Gallente and Amarr ships is even less. Amarr Cruisers are a little slower than equivalent Caldari Cruisers and Gallente Cruisers are a bit Faster, but neither will do much over 1500 m/s with a mwd and no other speed mods. A Stabber will do over 2400 m/s with a mwd and no other speed mods, but there you go, its a winmater. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
946
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 20:47:00 -
[28] - Quote
Zyress wrote:A Stabber will do over 2400 m/s with a mwd and no other speed mods, but there you go, its a winmater. It also gets a speed bonus, is made of paper, and is an absolute failure of a ship. Hardly "winmater".
If you want to accuse ships of "Winmatar" status, at least use the right ones. Compare the Rupture to the Maller or the Moa. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Zyress
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
67
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 20:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Zyress wrote:A Stabber will do over 2400 m/s with a mwd and no other speed mods, but there you go, its a winmater. It also gets a speed bonus, is made of paper, and is an absolute failure of a ship. Hardly "winmater". If you want to accuse ships of "Winmatar" status, at least use the right ones. Compare the Rupture to the Maller or the Moa.
Yeah but a Rupture with a mwd and no other speed mods does just under 1600 m/s and I was looking for an example of a T1 Cruiser that does over 2 k/m as stated in the post I was responding to. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
947
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 20:58:00 -
[30] - Quote
Zyress wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Zyress wrote:A Stabber will do over 2400 m/s with a mwd and no other speed mods, but there you go, its a winmater. It also gets a speed bonus, is made of paper, and is an absolute failure of a ship. Hardly "winmater". If you want to accuse ships of "Winmatar" status, at least use the right ones. Compare the Rupture to the Maller or the Moa. Yeah but a Rupture with a mwd and no other speed mods does just under 1600 m/s and I was looking for an example of a T1 Cruiser that does over 2 k/m as stated in the post I was responding to. That's okay, I just take offense every time Minmatar is called "Winmatar", but especially when it's done so wrongly (and spelled wrong). Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
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