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Perihelion Olenard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
25
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 21:02:00 -
[31] - Quote
Butzewutze wrote: Let me present you the 733 dps Rupture:
[Rupture, New Setup 9] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Damage Control II
10MN MicroWarpdrive I J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Large Shield Extender II
425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Assault Missile
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Hammerhead II x1 Hobgoblin II x4
Turrets: 459 DPS ( Overloaded : 528 DPS) Missiles: 80 DPS ( Overloaded : 94 DPS) Drones: 110 DPS
Dont look at EHP tho.
The rupture has the powergrid for all that? |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
947
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 21:06:00 -
[32] - Quote
Perihelion Olenard wrote:The rupture has the powergrid for all that? Yeah, just about. It's also the only cruiser that can fit a rack of its native guns, a prop mod, and a 1600mm plate without needing fitting mods. Yeah, that includes the Maller, which is supposed to be a buffer tanking laser platform. Problem? Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Alara IonStorm
2099
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 21:11:00 -
[33] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote: Yeah, just about. It's also the only cruiser that can fit a rack of its native guns, a prop mod, and a 1600mm plate without needing fitting mods. Yeah, that includes the Maller, which is supposed to be a buffer tanking laser platform. Problem?
Another problem with Armor Cruisers is that just to be considered passable they need a Battleship sized plate.
800mm and rigs still nerfs your speed lower then a Shield Cane while giving you far less HP. I really think if they want to fix Cruisers that has got to be something that needs to change.
Armor Cruisers being good without needing a Battleship plate is something to wish for. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
948
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 21:15:00 -
[34] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote: Yeah, just about. It's also the only cruiser that can fit a rack of its native guns, a prop mod, and a 1600mm plate without needing fitting mods. Yeah, that includes the Maller, which is supposed to be a buffer tanking laser platform. Problem?
Another problem with Armor Cruisers is that just to be considered passable they need a Battleship sized plate. 800mm and rigs still nerfs your speed lower then a Shield Cane while giving you far less HP. I really think if they want to fix Cruisers that has got to be something that needs to change. Armor Cruisers being good without needing a Battleship plate is something to wish for.
50mm and 100mm plates are useless.
Frigates have 200mm as light plates (easy to fit), and 400mm as heavy plates (hard to fit). Cruisers/BCs have 800mm as light plates (easy to fit), and 1600mm as heavy plates (hard to fit). Battleships have... 1600mm plates (easy to fit)?
It's battleship sized plates that are missing. Slightly lower tank and fitting reqs for all existing plates, delete 50mm and 100mm plates, and add 3200mm and 6400mm plates. Now cruiser tank is easier, and battleships have a reason to fit non-maximum-size guns (in order to take care of their tank).
Oops... this isn't F&I... Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Alara IonStorm
2099
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 21:25:00 -
[35] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote: 50mm and 100mm plates are useless.
Frigates have 200mm as light plates (easy to fit), and 400mm as heavy plates (hard to fit). Cruisers/BCs have 800mm as light plates (easy to fit), and 1600mm as heavy plates (hard to fit). Battleships have... 1600mm plates (easy to fit)?
It's battleship sized plates that are missing. Slightly lower tank and fitting reqs for all existing plates, delete 50mm and 100mm plates, and add 3200mm and 6400mm plates. Now cruiser tank is easier, and battleships have a reason to fit non-maximum-size guns (in order to take care of their tank).
Oops... this isn't F&I...
Armor Battleships don't need anymore HP. They are already far ahead of Shield with what already exists. Whats more do we need to further brick the game, more then enough HP as is. 1600mm Plates give them enough. I don't think Battlecruisers should be fitting Battleship sized plates realistically ether. Make them like Neutralizers, Cap Boosters and Microwarp Drives with massive PG need.
The key is to actually fix Cruiser sized plates. You said "Cruisers/BCs have 800mm as light plates (easy to fit)," but you're wrong they don't 800mm Plates because no Armor Cruiser pilot fits 800mm Plate they all fit massive 1600mm Plates. Otherwise they just plain suck and you know this.
Fix the disparity between Shield and Armor and you won't need oversized plates on everything to make it passable. Then maybe they can introduce Battleship sized extenders. |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1406
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 21:59:00 -
[36] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:*snip*
I only liked this post because it's the first post I've ever read from you where you don't mess up 'they're, there & their' (always makes me throw up a little despite failing at English myself).
The currrent problem with Tier2 BC's (and to a lesser extent Tier 1 BCs) is the fact that they use cruiser sized weapons and thus, are far too effective vs frigs and cruisers.
Their tank is fine, but they are dealing full damage against any ship equal or larger than them, their smaller cousins (cruisers) and still hit frigs and destroyers pretty well.
They should all receive a penalty on gun range, tracking and signature resolution or just fit be able to fit fewer large guns whilst doing the same overall DPS on paper. I've actually proposed that even before Tier3 BCs were even announced. You know... morons. |
Alara IonStorm
2100
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 22:10:00 -
[37] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote: I only liked this post because it's the first post I've ever read from you where you don't mess up 'they're, there & their' (always makes me throw up a little despite failing at English myself).
Through no prior planning. One of these days I was bound to stumble upon it. BTW.
You know what makes me throw up. Spelling current with three r's.
Large Collidable Object wrote: The currrent problem with Tier2 BC's (and to a lesser extent Tier 1 BCs) is the fact that they use cruiser sized weapons and thus, are far too effective vs frigs and cruisers.
No it isn't. They are meant to kill off Cruisers and be effective against them.
Large Collidable Object wrote: Their tank is fine, but they are dealing full damage against any ship equal or larger than them, their smaller cousins (cruisers) and still hit frigs and destroyers pretty well.
Yes their tank is fine. I don't want to see it nerfed.
Large Collidable Object wrote: They should all receive a penalty on gun range, tracking and signature resolution or just fit be able to fit fewer large guns whilst doing the same overall DPS on paper. I've actually proposed that even before Tier3 BCs were even announced.
No they shouldn't.
The problems they have are wide spread. Armor Cruisers slower then Shield Battlecruisers that have to cram on 1600mm Plates is one thing. But the list goes on and on. When it comes down to it the issues have to do with speed, utility, bonuses, base stats, slot layout, damage and fitting. Some Cruisers have the problem some don't.
As long as Armor needs 1600mm Plates on tiny hulls to stay relevant you won't fix the speed issue.
Biggest thing they can do is remove Rig Penalties. Right away makes makes Armor Cruisers as fast as Shield BC. Extenders and Plates already handle Mass and Sig while Active is Cap vs Amount. |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1406
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 22:57:00 -
[38] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote: No they shouldn't.
The problems they have are wide spread. Armor Cruisers slower then Shield Battlecruisers that have to cram on 1600mm Plates is one thing. But the list goes on and on. When it comes down to it the issues have to do with speed, utility, bonuses, base stats, slot layout, damage and fitting. Some Cruisers have the problem some don't.
As long as Armor needs 1600mm Plates on tiny hulls to stay relevant you won't fix the speed issue.
Biggest thing they can do is remove Rig Penalties. Right away makes makes Armor Cruisers as fast as Shield BC. Extenders and Plates already handle Mass and Sig while Active is Cap vs Amount.
Yes - armor rig penalties are out of whack and need to be changed to something just as irrelevant as sig radius boost.
The speed issue is an entirely different topic an the reason why I think Minmatar need to be nerfed really hard in some area, because CCP obviously don't realize the impact of one race dictating engagement range at 100% efficiency, having the ability to deal damage outside of bonused scorch range or doing blaster-like DPS at short range.
The problem still is that a Tier2 BCs can hit pretty much everything above and below their class with decent damage at a good range and even outclass most T2 cruisers at a fraction of the price.
Either Tier 2 BCs need a nerf or every single ship around them needs a buff. The first option would be easier. You know... morons. |
Alara IonStorm
2100
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 23:18:00 -
[39] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote: Either Tier 2 BCs need a nerf or every single ship around them needs a buff. The first option would be easier.
I agree with everything you said but I prefer the every single option personally.
|
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
954
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 23:19:00 -
[40] - Quote
I was suggesting larger plates as a way to make battleships pay an actual powergrid fitting cost for their tank. Of course, there should be an associated XLSE or something, but my idea isn't well-shaped enough to articulate it further.
The bottom line is that yeah, it's dumb that cruisers, BCs and BSs all share armor tanking mods, as cruisers get the shaft. Especially since there are some cruisers (Omen...) that cannot fit a real fit even with 800mm plates.
The speed of tier 2 BCs is a whole different issue, and needs to be nerfed hard to make cruisers have a real advantage. The way the Harbinger works right now looks fine for a baseline on how a BC should behave. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
|
Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
433
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 23:45:00 -
[41] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:Yes - armor rig penalties are out of whack and need to be changed to something just as irrelevant as sig radius boost.
Sig radius is pretty relevant.
Quote:The speed issue is an entirely different topic an the reason why I think Minmatar need to be nerfed really hard in some area, because CCP obviously don't realize the impact of one race dictating engagement range at 100% efficiency, having the ability to deal damage outside of bonused scorch range or doing blaster-like DPS at short range.
Canes do around 180 DPS at 34km (bonused Scorch range) with autocannons and far less than the Brutix's 900 DPS at point-blank. |
Ava Starfire
Skadi's Call Defiant Legacy
245
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 00:58:00 -
[42] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:Large Collidable Object wrote:Yes - armor rig penalties are out of whack and need to be changed to something just as irrelevant as sig radius boost. Sig radius is pretty relevant.Quote:The speed issue is an entirely different topic an the reason why I think Minmatar need to be nerfed really hard in some area, because CCP obviously don't realize the impact of one race dictating engagement range at 100% efficiency, having the ability to deal damage outside of bonused scorch range or doing blaster-like DPS at short range. Canes do around 180 DPS at 34km (bonused Scorch range) with autocannons and far less than the Brutix's 900 DPS at point-blank.
/me stares at the Drake, walks away quietly muttering |
Boomhaur
44
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 01:07:00 -
[43] - Quote
They both serve a purpuse BC's and Cruisers, you see more BC's because with the bigger ship you have a bigger tank and more dps due to more slots for weapons and usually access to a full flight of light drones, which most cruisers won't allow you to do. The downside is increase sig, slower speed, and increase price which is neglible in my book after insurance if your planning on doing something stupid or if your doing PVE you shouldn't be losing your ship.
You also see more BC's because it is easier to fly one good with bad skills compared to a cruiser in which it is far more apparent as the BC is far more forgiving.
I can tell you if I went back to being a pirate I would jump in a cruiser class ship not a BC as I be doing things solo and I can put out enough DPS for most purposes with a proper cruiser if I fit it and fly it right. And still use that speed to my advantage to tackle and GTFO if it goes south. A BC on the other hand will probably result in me dying more as it doesn't offer the speed and agility that the cruiser does, as well as the small sig. |
Kaikka Carel
White syndicate
49
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 04:05:00 -
[44] - Quote
Ok ppl nice feedback!
So far you say that cruisers excel at two situations:
- Adding firepower to frigate gangs. - Solo roaming. Though my guess that faction/T2 cruisers still outshine them here.
To the ppl saying that cruisers shouldn't stand against a BCs you're right. And I don't expect them to. I expect them to be viable alongside Battlecruisers. Currently if a guy hops into a cruiser he's jeopardizing tha gang as a BC would have numerous advantages.
Maybe a buff in EHP(15% for tier3 and 25% to tier2), PG/CPU(so they become noob friendly in fittings) and extra slots(no more 6/3/3 jokes) would work? |
ValentinaDLM
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
496
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 04:21:00 -
[45] - Quote
While cruisers are by far my favorite class of ships, I think things after almost right in terms of gameplay, the problem is economic. You see, I would take a gila or ishtar over a myrm, but a myrm over a vexor, this is a reasonable progression. The problem is that the vexor navy, gila, and ishtar are all so much more expensive than the myrm that from a cost standpoint the myrm makes more sense...... Simply put, either hacs/faction cruisers ought to be cheaper or battlecruisers ought to be more expensive. |
Kalli Brixzat
27
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 04:41:00 -
[46] - Quote
ValentinaDLM wrote:While cruisers are by far my favorite class of ships, I think things after almost right in terms of gameplay, the problem is economic. You see, I would take a gila or ishtar over a myrm, but a myrm over a vexor, this is a reasonable progression. The problem is that the vexor navy, gila, and ishtar are all so much more expensive than the myrm that from a cost standpoint the myrm makes more sense...... Simply put, either hacs/faction cruisers ought to be cheaper or battlecruisers ought to be more expensive.
Depends on what you man by "faction." The Navy Issue/Fleet ships are all fairly cheap to buy and fit, not to mention that you can get the hulls and/or BPC's from LP stores (just train X Connections to IV).
If you're talking about pirate faction ships, that's a different story. Those are rightfully expensive because they are generally just THAT much better than the T1 or Navy/Fleet hulls in the same weight class.
As for HAC's, I think some of them need a rework, while others are certainly overpowered (Cerberus comes to mind here). |
FT Diomedes
Factio Paucorum
84
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 05:15:00 -
[47] - Quote
Kalli Brixzat wrote:
As for HAC's, I think some of them need a rework, while others are certainly overpowered (Cerberus comes to mind here).
You're kidding, right?
|
Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
81
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 06:52:00 -
[48] - Quote
BC's have too similar a mass compared to cruisers. This isn't so in frigs vs dessies hence the frigs don't suffer as much. |
Cpt Cosmic
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 08:23:00 -
[49] - Quote
there is also little reason to fly a T2 cruiser over a bc. most tier2 bc offer more damage, easier fittings, more cap and similar tank (even if you take the sig into account) but cost much less. you cant even fit a plate or armor rigs on the t2 cruiser cause it pretty much nullifies all of the hulls advantage.
Butzewutze wrote: Let me present you the 733 dps Rupture:
[Rupture, New Setup 9] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Damage Control II
10MN MicroWarpdrive I J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Large Shield Extender II
425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Assault Missile
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Hammerhead II x1 Hobgoblin II x4
Turrets: 459 DPS ( Overloaded : 528 DPS) Missiles: 80 DPS ( Overloaded : 94 DPS) Drones: 110 DPS
Dont look at EHP tho.
I would not use that fit, it is too vulnerable to small ships and the hurricane can deal that dps with ECM drones, double neut while also having much more EHP and better range + tracking due to tracking enhancers. |
Jerick Ludhowe
Wraiths of Abaddon
69
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 11:15:00 -
[50] - Quote
I think the main solution is going to come in the form of reduced relative cost while also granting a slight net performance buff across almost all cruisers. These suggestions are in addition the potential tier removal that we are all so eagerly waiting for,
1. Change cruisers to use small rigs, or change bcs to use large rigs.
2. Increase fitting on almost all t1 cruisers by a small margin... Both the thorax and omen should be able to fit a 1600mm plate with smallest guns (electrons or focused pulse) w/o the use of a fitting rigs or mods.
3. Increase scan resolution to allow for slightly slower locks than destroyers, but significantly faster than bcs. Idea is to make it almost impossible for a BC to exceed a cruisers lock time w/o significantly hindering fit.
4. Increase cruiser velocities and agility by a small margin as well as reduce cruiser sig by a very small margin. Idea is to make BCs universally slower than cruisers even when comparing nano bc vs buffer cruiser. |
|
Otrebla Utrigas
Space Bastards
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 12:18:00 -
[51] - Quote
The main problem today about cruisers and BCs is, as most people has said before, they use the same rigs, weapons and buffs, and they have more slots, more grid and more of everything, with just a small speed handicap (which is no problem since most BC fit MWD and / or nanos.)
So in the end, there are very few situations in which a cruiser will fit better than a BC. (for example a said caracal can be the Anti tackler boat of a bc gang, or the powerhorse of a frig gang)
Also I must said that the only cruisers that are not very used are the fighter ones. All the utility / support cruisers are used everyday, with good results.
So instead of pure figthing cruisers, give them support roles (F.E faster locking time, aft bonus etc etc) like the T3 cruisers have, but with less raw bonus (5% aft speed instead of 10% speed) etc
And let the BC be the ships of the line in small fleets.
And rework assault cruisers in the same way. Now there is few reasons to tech to assault cruisers instead of said, T3 cruisers or just stay in BCs |
Ava Starfire
Skadi's Call Defiant Legacy
247
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 14:55:00 -
[52] - Quote
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:I think the main solution is going to come in the form of reduced relative cost while also granting a slight net performance buff across almost all cruisers. These suggestions are in addition the potential tier removal that we are all so eagerly waiting for,
1. Change cruisers to use small rigs, or change bcs to use large rigs.
2. Increase fitting on almost all t1 cruisers by a small margin... Both the thorax and omen should be able to fit a 1600mm plate with smallest guns (electrons or focused pulse) w/o the use of a fitting rigs or mods.
3. Increase scan resolution to allow for slightly slower locks than destroyers, but significantly faster than bcs. Idea is to make it almost impossible for a BC to exceed a cruisers lock time w/o significantly hindering fit.
4. Increase cruiser velocities and agility by a small margin as well as reduce cruiser sig by a very small margin. Idea is to make BCs universally slower than cruisers even when comparing nano bc vs buffer cruiser.
Outstanding ideas.
Level the field for fitting choices, make a plate cruiser a bit faster than nano BCs, and reduce lock time and sig, would go a long way to making T1 cruisers workable.
T2 cruisers... most need help, thats a whole different can of worms though. |
Jerick Ludhowe
Wraiths of Abaddon
71
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 15:17:00 -
[53] - Quote
Ava Starfire wrote:
T2 cruisers... most need help, thats a whole different can of worms though.
By carrying over the speed, sig, and lock time advantages i've proposed for t1s I think you will find that many of these HACs become far more viable. Granted, in a strait up slug fest bcs should still have a slight advantage over hacs however with logi on field the relative remote tank on the hacs is already and will remain substantially more powerful than that same remote tank on bcs. This is due to the full fledged t2 resists that HACs and many t2 ships are endowed with as well as the increased speed and significantly reduced sig compared to bcs.
At least that is my take on it. |
Zyress
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
68
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 15:35:00 -
[54] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Kalli Brixzat wrote:
As for HAC's, I think some of them need a rework, while others are certainly overpowered (Cerberus comes to mind here).
You're kidding, right?
I'm hoping Kali meant the Cerberus needs work,,, The main concern for me is speed, a smaller hull should be faster than a larger hull, if it isn't then its not worth using. |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1411
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 21:31:00 -
[55] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:Large Collidable Object wrote:Yes - armor rig penalties are out of whack and need to be changed to something just as irrelevant as sig radius boost. Sig radius is pretty relevant.
Well - of course Sig radius is relevant, but in the case of the cruiser vs Tier 2 BC argument, it is rather negligible.
Nice vid BTW - I just felt the urge to undust one of my dreads for the first time in over three years.
Quote:Quote:The speed issue is an entirely different topic an the reason why I think Minmatar need to be nerfed really hard in some area, because CCP obviously don't realize the impact of one race dictating engagement range at 100% efficiency, having the ability to deal damage outside of bonused scorch range or doing blaster-like DPS at short range. Canes do around 180 DPS at 34km (bonused Scorch range) with autocannons and far less than the Brutix's 900 DPS at point-blank.
Well - but then again, ten Canes being able to kite e.g. AHAC Zealots indefinitely still do 1800 DPS, track better have more EHP, additional drones and utility slots whilst the former is a HAC and the latter a BC...
Can't argue about the Brutix doing more damage at its optimal, but I'd prefer a cane under most circumstances because I'd usually kite a Brutix. Close up I'm not sure how it would turn out because of neuts and I've never fought a Brutix up close in a Drake because I'd always go for the kiting option.
Having both their capabilities (or close to) in one cheap insurable ship and being faster than both is more than good enough for me.
Anyway - let's not turn this into a nerf Minmatar thread - there are already plenty of those. You know... morons. |
Lost Greybeard
Fenrir's Dogs of War Union 0f Revolution
55
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 22:01:00 -
[56] - Quote
How does one go about losing more money with a Cruiser explosion than with a BC? BCs have:
1. Twice as many turret slots (often the most expensive part of the ship) 2. Significantly more low slots, so you lose more tank or damage mods 3. More medium slots, see #2 4. Usually three rigs to the cruiser's two 5. A more expensive hull to begin with.
I can fit a solid cruiser for about 10M, maybe 15-20 if I'm going all out and running m4 instead of T2 for resources or something. That's less than the base cost of the hull alone for most BCs. |
The Atomium
Global Song Setup
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 01:30:00 -
[57] - Quote
Lost Greybeard wrote:4. Usually three rigs to the cruiser's two. Every Tech 1 ship has 3 rigslots. Every Tech 2 ship has 2 rigslots. Every Tech 3 ship has 3 rigslots. Every Tech 1/2/3 ship has 400 calibration. Every Faction Ship hast 350 calibration (except AT rewards).
tl;dr You're wrong. aka Luba Cibre |
Alara IonStorm
2109
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 01:56:00 -
[58] - Quote
Lost Greybeard wrote: I can fit a solid cruiser for about 10M, maybe 15-20 if I'm going all out and running m4 instead of T2 for resources or something. That's less than the base cost of the hull alone for most BCs.
The Cruiser Hull cost 10mil. A slid Cruiser has a T2 Tank, Rigs and T2 Guns. That alone is 20mil. Today Cruisers cost about 30 mil and most of that is in modules.
After that they have less DPS, Tank, Utility and are about 3 times as vulnerable t cap warfare...
But wait! They are supposed to be smaller and faster in return for worse combat stats... Except most of them are not faster then the Nano Cane.
The most flown Cruiser is the 300mil ISK Cynabal. This isn't about ISK, it is about effectiveness. Cynabal is effective so it is flown. Hurricane and Drake are effective so they are flown. Rifter, Thrasher, Merlin are effective so they are flown. A lot of the T1 Cruisers are not. Hell a lot of the HAC's are not.
Should the 300mil Cynable be way better then a T1 Cruiser absolutely. Should 70mil Hurricane be more effective then a 30mil Cruiser absolutely not it should be better at tank and gank.
So why is it running rings around most of them.
Speed isn't the only issue, Dmg, Fitting, Utility, Cap, Tank and Bonuses. CCP admits these are all areas where Cruisers suffer. Some of them are close to fine and others are not. Cost is not a factor in T1 Balance role is.
I don't care if you could fit out a Cruiser for 1 Million ISK if it sucks at its role. |
Dato Koppla
Perkone Caldari State
20
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 03:50:00 -
[59] - Quote
Cpt Cosmic wrote:Butzewutze wrote: Let me present you the 733 dps Rupture:
[Rupture, New Setup 9] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Damage Control II
10MN MicroWarpdrive I J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Large Shield Extender II
425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Assault Missile
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Hammerhead II x1 Hobgoblin II x4
Turrets: 459 DPS ( Overloaded : 528 DPS) Missiles: 80 DPS ( Overloaded : 94 DPS) Drones: 110 DPS
Dont look at EHP tho.
I would not use that fit, it is too vulnerable to small ships and the hurricane can deal that dps with ECM drones, double neut while also having much more EHP and better range + tracking due to tracking enhancers.
All that, and cheaper after insurance :D Battlecruisers ruined cruisers and HACs
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Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
1153
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 12:06:00 -
[60] - Quote
Quote:[Rupture, New Setup 9] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Damage Control II
10MN MicroWarpdrive I J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Large Shield Extender II
425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Assault Missile
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Hammerhead II x1 Hobgoblin II x4
Turrets: 459 DPS ( Overloaded : 528 DPS) Missiles: 80 DPS ( Overloaded : 94 DPS) Drones: 110 DPS
Dont look at EHP tho.
Well, you EFT-warriorred this, but it's not terrible.
Swap a Gyro for a TE, swap the missiles for a medium & small neut and the EM rig for a polycarb and you've got a very solid kiting Rupture.
It's actually a VERY common fit, I have no idea why people are saying it won't work.
Don't use Hail though, stick Barrage in the guns and plink your targets at range. You pull 2.6km/s OH so actually, a lot of frigates and AFs are your prey.
Other cruisers are perfectly viable as well (Vexor / Thorax / Caracal), but the Rupture is a rare example of one being well used. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
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