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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 26 post(s) |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
241
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Posted - 2012.05.09 15:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
We are still going through all the Incursion feedback and we share your concerns about the Incursion changes during the escalation patch. We are very interested in hearing your feedback and suggestions and will continue discussions with the Incursion Community.
We want to make sure we have all the feedback and time to discuss solutions with you all so we will aim to fix this in June or July - after Inferno. CCP Affinity | Team Five 0 |-á @CCP_Affinity |
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Herr Ronin
ISN - Management ISN - Incursion Shiny Network
66
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Posted - 2012.05.09 15:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:We are still going through all the Incursion feedback and we share your concerns about the Incursion changes during the escalation patch. We are very interested in hearing your feedback and suggestions and will continue discussions with the Incursion Community.
We want to make sure we have all the feedback and time to discuss solutions with you all so we will aim to fix this in June or July - after Inferno.
Incursion's are going to be saved!
Glad to see CCP doing everything they can!
o7 Management Of ISN - Incursion Shiny Network
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Jessie Davis
Les Enfants Terribles
1
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Posted - 2012.05.09 15:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Herr Ronin wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:We are still going through all the Incursion feedback and we share your concerns about the Incursion changes during the escalation patch. We are very interested in hearing your feedback and suggestions and will continue discussions with the Incursion Community.
We want to make sure we have all the feedback and time to discuss solutions with you all so we will aim to fix this in June or July - after Inferno. Incursion's are going to be saved! Glad to see CCP doing everything they can! o7
+1 |
Col Ostomy
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2012.05.09 15:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thanks! Don't forget to remove concord from high sec incursions. That way we easily prey upon the carebears in their multi-billion isk coffins. |
nomlet
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.05.09 16:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
I like all the VG changes!
As a casual incursion runner, its allowed me to actually run them with my friends. We fly non-shiny ships in a fleet of 6. We couldnt compete before, we didnt do nearly enough damage. Now there are sites available to run. We dont care so much about the money, The focus and coordination/teamwork it takes to do the sites is a lot of fun. The randomized spawns have definitly livend it up a bit =) |
Kiyarii Oskold
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.05.09 16:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Really, 3+ months turn-around for what was once a full expansion's main feature? Too little, too late?
Learn to 'little & often', CCP. Less knee-jerk panic, your instincts have been terrible. |
Daneel Trevize
The Scope Gallente Federation
101
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Posted - 2012.05.09 17:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
I'm digging back through the recent last official thread on this and will edit/post in some choice summaries asap.
I will ask this though, what's CCP's position on a mechanic limiting the isk/lp reward Concord will give a single character per day? It seems having a limit might well tackle several (previous) problems at once.
- Sub-par fits & newer low SP players had to wait hours to get a spot in fleets when they were popular.
- Dedicated channels with min-maxed blitz fits could equally have few people running for many hours making that often-quoted theoretical too-damn-high isk/hour.
- People can often only play for a few hours a day at most, yet many were upset about the theoretical isk rate when not accounting for waiting for a place in fleet & moving around all of highsec to get to incursions.
(Nullsec and w-space loot logistics are easier, see previous thread/learn basic jumpdrive & static cycling mechanics)
By saying Corcord will only give a player x many isk/lp/site payout per 24hours from Incursions, you'd make people stop at their fair share from the watering hole. They could make more by running multiple accounts, but that would probably be far less common when they have the alternatives of having a char in w-space/nullsec/doing lvl4s 23.5/7.
You'll never get away from min-maxers, you certainly need to address site-specific issues such as Scout sites, Command Ship restrictions, particular alpha threats, RR range & amounts etc, but in general if incursions were put back to how they were or even improved, having a specific isk-throttling mechanic might be deserved for highsec at least. |
Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
156
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Posted - 2012.05.09 17:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
nomlet wrote:I like all the VG changes!
As a casual incursion runner, its allowed me to actually run them with my friends. We fly non-shiny ships in a fleet of 6. We couldnt compete before, we didnt do nearly enough damage. Now there are sites available to run. We dont care so much about the money, The focus and coordination/teamwork it takes to do the sites is a lot of fun. The randomized spawns have definitly livend it up a bit =)
You are doing all VG sites with just 6 players in non-shiny fleets?
On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton where the dripping patchouli was more than scent, It was a sun-á |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
242
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Posted - 2012.05.09 17:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kiyarii Oskold wrote:Really, 3+ months turn-around for what was once a full expansion's main feature? Too little, too late?
Learn to 'little & often', CCP. Less knee-jerk panic, your instincts have been terrible.
We want to avoid making a knee jerk panic decision.. so we are reading all the feedback before making a change. We are only talking short term changes, we will consider long-term redesigns after the Summer. CCP Affinity | Team Five 0 |-á @CCP_Affinity |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
242
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Posted - 2012.05.09 17:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
Daneel Trevize wrote:I'm digging back through the recent last official thread on this and will edit/post in some choice summaries asap. I will ask this though, what's CCP's position on a mechanic limiting the isk/lp reward Concord will give a single character per day? It seems having a limit might well tackle several (previous) problems at once.
- Sub-par fits & newer low SP players had to wait hours to get a spot in fleets when they were popular.
- Dedicated channels with min-maxed blitz fits could equally have few people running for many hours making that often-quoted theoretical too-damn-high isk/hour.
- People can often only play for a few hours a day at most, yet many were upset about the theoretical isk rate when not accounting for waiting for a place in fleet & moving around all of highsec to get to incursions.
(Nullsec and w-space loot logistics are easier, see previous thread/learn basic jumpdrive & static cycling mechanics)
By saying Corcord will only give a player x many isk/lp/site payout per 24hours from Incursions, you'd make people stop at their fair share from the watering hole. They could make more by running multiple accounts, but that would probably be far less common when they have the alternatives of having a char in w-space/nullsec/doing lvl4s 23.5/7. You'll never get away from min-maxers, you certainly need to address site-specific issues such as Scout sites, Command Ship restrictions, particular alpha threats, RR range & amounts etc, but in general if incursions were put back to how they were or even improved, having a specific isk-throttling mechanic might be deserved for highsec at least.
The short term fixes in June will be just to react to the feedback on the escalation changes. Long term, we will see how the community feel after the Summer changes and consider some longer-term goals for the feature.
CCP Affinity | Team Five 0 |-á @CCP_Affinity |
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Just Alter
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
99
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Posted - 2012.05.09 17:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
Lyron-Baktos wrote:nomlet wrote:I like all the VG changes!
As a casual incursion runner, its allowed me to actually run them with my friends. We fly non-shiny ships in a fleet of 6. We couldnt compete before, we didnt do nearly enough damage. Now there are sites available to run. We dont care so much about the money, The focus and coordination/teamwork it takes to do the sites is a lot of fun. The randomized spawns have definitly livend it up a bit =) You are doing all VG sites with just 6 players in non-shiny fleets?
Probably rr domis or something like tha
Quote:We are very interested in hearing your feedback and suggestions and will continue discussions with the Incursion Community.
Discussion?
I saw no discussion.
Quote:we will aim to fix this in June or July - after Inferno.
Better than nothing i guess. |
Just Alter
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
99
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Posted - 2012.05.09 17:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Kiyarii Oskold wrote:Really, 3+ months turn-around for what was once a full expansion's main feature? Too little, too late?
Learn to 'little & often', CCP. Less knee-jerk panic, your instincts have been terrible. We want to avoid making a knee jerk panic decision.. so we are reading all the feedback before making a change. We are only talking short term changes, we will consider long-term redesigns after the Summer.
Well this is actually a good post.
You have plenty of feedback to do whatever you want to improve incursions (without breaking them again); just use that feedback.
I hope you'll actually follow through on these promises. |
Daneel Trevize
The Scope Gallente Federation
102
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Posted - 2012.05.09 17:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1258191#post1258191
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1257089#post1257089
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1257525#post1257525
Andochas wrote:The Detailed Answer: CCP Soundwave wrote: Making NPC groups dynamic and stopping blitzing works as intended for Vanguards. I'm considering reversing the 10% income change, to increase their value slightly again.
"works as intended" - Wrong. The crushing Vanguard nerfs are killing the Incursion communities. If it weren't for the dedication of FCs in exclusive channels, and of the public channel "The Valhalla Project", Incursions would be dead. BTL Pub has gone from posted fits to a chat channel, and armor fleets are gone. CFC (Goons) have already said low sec/null sec incursion fleets are dead. Asmodes Reynolds wrote: As a part of the incursion group you are speaking of I can confirm this CFC incursion group has has been shut down until something changes.
The death of vanguards means the influence bars stay red during weekdays, only to move on weekends. Those influence bars are visible to all players. With a quick check of the Incursions tab, a player can decide whether they want to make the 20 or so jumps to the current Incursion, or do something else. Right now, the answer is, "do something else." CCP Soundwave and CCP Affinity, do NOT be afraid to read the walls of text in this thread and the locked thread of comments from SiSi. The leaders in the Incursion community have given their honest feedback. You'd do well to get their feedback directly. Herr Ronin (#26)nomatech (#43)Keith Planck (#63)Serge SC (old #12)Serge SC (old #60)EI7FPB 3 wrote: Incursion should NOT be, join a fleet for a few days, earn 2 -3 billions, then go back to PVPing or what ever. It should be a career.
A bad ending to an otherwise good post. I strongly disagree. Incursions are the bridge from PvE to PvP. Incursions are the way for a player to transition from a high sec missioner to a valuable member of a null sec corp. Incursions can motivate a player to train leadership skills to learn how to FC. Becoming an FC involves focus, social skills, multitasking, and possibly personal growth - something that can only be good for the EVE playerbase. Incursions are inclusive. The lure of the high payout of the Elite Vanguard fleets drew solo players into the EVE community. The lure of high sec Incursions brought null sec players' alts to fleet up with their main character's enemies. Incursions are the way I fund my null sec covert ops roams, especially as I only get to play about a dozen hours a week (not 12 hrs/day). EVE is rich in Things To Do. No player *has* to do only one thing. I can have research agents all over the universe, mine for minerals to assemble items from blueprints, do missions for standings, roam null sec in a fleet, or fine tune my skills with the best group of pilots I can find in Incursions. I play EVE because I'm not limited to a "class" of doing one thing well and everything else poorly. I run Incursions because I enjoy the community and the challenge of optimal performance with different players. CCP has about a week from this post to correct the imbalance in Incursions. Final exams are starting in most universities, and the readjustment needs to be in place when the students come back to EVE. HardinSalvor is a great example of the young blood EVE needs to attract and keep interested. He created the Incursion Guide that was the basis for Incursion running. EVE needs more young players - to create the fan sites that CCP wants and values, and to grow the playerbase. CCP has tried to focus on bringing more players into New Eden; now more than ever with the impending release of DUST. Don't drive away players by killing what was one of the most interesting components of EVE: Incursions. |
Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
156
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 17:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Affinity - What is CCP's goal for incursions in regards to hi/lo? Where does CCP see Incursions in regards to other isk making activities. Do you want to reward it more based on risk or group participation? Do you see a spot for very new players in Incursions or just older players with billion isk ships? On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton where the dripping patchouli was more than scent, It was a sun-á |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
185
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 17:18:00 -
[15] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:We are still going through all the Incursion feedback and we share your concerns about the Incursion changes during the escalation patch. We are very interested in hearing your feedback and suggestions and will continue discussions with the Incursion Community.
We want to make sure we have all the feedback and time to discuss solutions with you all so we will aim to fix this in June or July - after Inferno.
After Inferno you are going to be swamped with Crimewatch problems if the Burn Jita fiasco's are any indicator. Looks like you'll be doing a post mortum on more then one community: I don't think you'll be getting any more feedback from the lo/NULL sec incursion comunitites they appear to have already died. I don't recall much more then a speck of blue in any lo/NULL SEC bar in the Journal. Has a single NULL SEC Incursion MOM site been completed? Be interesting to see what happens when an Incursion messes with an alliances bridges to see i they can bring it down quickly. CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
243
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Posted - 2012.05.09 17:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
Lyron-Baktos wrote:CCP Affinity - What is CCP's goal for incursions in regards to hi/lo? Where does CCP see Incursions in regards to other isk making activities. Do you want to reward it more based on risk or group participation? Do you see a spot for very new players in Incursions or just older players with billion isk ships?
Long term we would like to balance all PvE income on a risk vs reward basis and make sure it all falls in line with other income in EVE. Incursions should be one of the higher end incomes in PvE, in my opinion, but we have to make sure we scale the risk to reflect that. I definitely see a spot for new players in Incursions and we need to ensure we have content that meets both new players and shiny fleets needs. This is definitely a long term plan. CCP Affinity | Team Five 0 |-á @CCP_Affinity |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
243
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 17:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
Daneel Trevize wrote:https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1258191#post1258191 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1257089#post1257089https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1257525#post1257525Andochas wrote:The Detailed Answer: CCP Soundwave wrote: Making NPC groups dynamic and stopping blitzing works as intended for Vanguards. I'm considering reversing the 10% income change, to increase their value slightly again.
"works as intended" - Wrong. The crushing Vanguard nerfs are killing the Incursion communities. If it weren't for the dedication of FCs in exclusive channels, and of the public channel "The Valhalla Project", Incursions would be dead. BTL Pub has gone from posted fits to a chat channel, and armor fleets are gone. CFC (Goons) have already said low sec/null sec incursion fleets are dead. Asmodes Reynolds wrote: As a part of the incursion group you are speaking of I can confirm this CFC incursion group has has been shut down until something changes.
The death of vanguards means the influence bars stay red during weekdays, only to move on weekends. Those influence bars are visible to all players. With a quick check of the Incursions tab, a player can decide whether they want to make the 20 or so jumps to the current Incursion, or do something else. Right now, the answer is, "do something else." CCP Soundwave and CCP Affinity, do NOT be afraid to read the walls of text in this thread and the locked thread of comments from SiSi. The leaders in the Incursion community have given their honest feedback. You'd do well to get their feedback directly. Herr Ronin (#26)nomatech (#43)Keith Planck (#63)Serge SC (old #12)Serge SC (old #60)EI7FPB 3 wrote: Incursion should NOT be, join a fleet for a few days, earn 2 -3 billions, then go back to PVPing or what ever. It should be a career.
A bad ending to an otherwise good post. I strongly disagree. Incursions are the bridge from PvE to PvP. Incursions are the way for a player to transition from a high sec missioner to a valuable member of a null sec corp. Incursions can motivate a player to train leadership skills to learn how to FC. Becoming an FC involves focus, social skills, multitasking, and possibly personal growth - something that can only be good for the EVE playerbase. Incursions are inclusive. The lure of the high payout of the Elite Vanguard fleets drew solo players into the EVE community. The lure of high sec Incursions brought null sec players' alts to fleet up with their main character's enemies. Incursions are the way I fund my null sec covert ops roams, especially as I only get to play about a dozen hours a week (not 12 hrs/day). EVE is rich in Things To Do. No player *has* to do only one thing. I can have research agents all over the universe, mine for minerals to assemble items from blueprints, do missions for standings, roam null sec in a fleet, or fine tune my skills with the best group of pilots I can find in Incursions. I play EVE because I'm not limited to a "class" of doing one thing well and everything else poorly. I run Incursions because I enjoy the community and the challenge of optimal performance with different players. CCP has about a week from this post to correct the imbalance in Incursions. Final exams are starting in most universities, and the readjustment needs to be in place when the students come back to EVE. HardinSalvor is a great example of the young blood EVE needs to attract and keep interested. He created the Incursion Guide that was the basis for Incursion running. EVE needs more young players - to create the fan sites that CCP wants and values, and to grow the playerbase. CCP has tried to focus on bringing more players into New Eden; now more than ever with the impending release of DUST. Don't drive away players by killing what was one of the most interesting components of EVE: Incursions.
I have already been in talks with Ronin and Serge and quite a few other people within the community - it's been a really good learning experience for me :) CCP Affinity | Team Five 0 |-á @CCP_Affinity |
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Asmodes Reynolds
Rayn Enterprises
24
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Posted - 2012.05.09 17:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
CCP Affinity , before this thread gets out of control, I have questions for you;
What does CCP intend incursions to be?
Do you want them to draw conflict between null-sec and low-sec entities or low sec and high sec entities or both?
If your intention was to draw Null-sec entities into low sec, then you did the opposite
The CFC as a whole has abandoned them, and to my knowledge we were the only 0.0 entities bothered to run them in the first place. Pre-patch we could easily make 80-100 mill/hour running them one after another. We Only run Vanguards, Because of the logistics of moving ships and keeping the required number of people in Fleet over the long term. Post-patch the most you can make is about is about 80 mil/hour I think it averages out to be about 60 may be 65mil an hour . Which the average null sec dweller can easily make that by running anomalies in there home space. So why bother with the logistics to move ships and organize a fleet sometimes 40 jumps from home?
If your intentions were to to create conflict between high-sec entities and Losec entities.
Then you will need to widen the Profit margin between high sec incursions and Losec incursions while keeping it below what someone can make doing anomalies in sovereignty space. You need to make it enough to justify the logistics issues and the danger increase. Or my personal favorite just remove them from high sec entirely. (If Concord with a 200 man fleet of goon/test tornados In under One minute Then such invaders should be no problem lol)
do you intend them to be just an alternate activity to the existing PVE mechanics or do you wish them to pay out more?
Where do you intend that the bulk of the incentives to run these to come from?
I look forward to your responses, and I hope my comments are helpful. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
185
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 17:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote: I have already been in talks with Ronin and Serge and quite a few other people within the community - it's been a really good learning experience for me :)
Please contact "Cozmic Cowboy" he's the leader of the loose Armor Community known as The Ditanian Fleet you seem to be only contacting the shield fleets. "Vily " used to be one of the Goons running the lo/NULL SEC incursions ( last I heard though Villy was put in charge of a bunch of fleets by Mittani so I sorta doubt he's the one still running it but can probably point you in the right direction) I think I may know 1 or 2 of the lo sec Incursion runners but they tend to keep quiet about it so I won't drop any names there. CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" |
Just Alter
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
101
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 17:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:
I have already been in talks with Ronin and Serge and quite a few other people within the community - it's been a really good learning experience for me :)
Holy s*it!
I can believe what i am reading!!
A dev actually talking with players and not hiding behind "csm blah blah yada yada".
Also you choose good people to talk to.
I must say that after these few post of yours you seem one of the best dev around and i personally like your style.
Keep it up, you could do grand things. |
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nomlet
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.05.09 17:51:00 -
[21] - Quote
Lyron-Baktos wrote: You are doing all VG sites with just 6 players in non-shiny fleets?
Nation Mining Colony. We couldnt handle the random triggers on the others. Now thats gone, we'll give them a shot =) |
Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
157
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 17:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
Regarding new players, I have only done Scout belt ratting and not the actual Scout sites, if they exist, but you could buff those and put a limit on the ship types.
I ran it with a Harbinger and one other player and it was so boring and the payout was awful. I'd rather watch TV than kill a few rats for 50K isk plus LP -beef up the rewards to about half of what a VG site would pay. maybe about 3-6 minutes of work for just a couple million ISK -put a ship restriction on the acceleration gate, probably BC and lower - On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton where the dripping patchouli was more than scent, It was a sun-á |
Daneel Trevize
The Scope Gallente Federation
102
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Posted - 2012.05.09 17:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
Discussions shouldn't be private. Obviously certain individuals are experienced in the topic, and these forums are terrible for productive debate, but the key points need to be acknowledged to be recieved by CCP, less they just keep getting repeated in every vaguely related thread.
Damn this wasn't the evening to start drinking and then have this thread appear. Some other points from my experience & observations:
- Min-maxing will happen. AFAIK it is accepted for missions, nullsec player vs rats isk sources, and sleepers. And those things can be run be each specific character near 100% of the time for their max rate, while incursions do move, have wait-lists and most importantly Contests.
- Running the min-maxed channel of players & fits is effort. Most people happily give some of their reward back to those running these, of course they are also benefitting from the higher isk rate of their existance, but paying FCs, booster alts and ore droppers is a thing.
- Disconnects happen, suicide ganks happen in and between incursions, hauling ships about highsec is more effort than earning isk in null & w-space.
Solo ratting tengus/machs/(super)cap ships in null are terrible gameplay. Group sleepers farming is mechanical but at least a fleet op and with the unstoppable risk of sieged/triaged blinged-out cap ships being caught out. Incursions were the best PvE content I've ever experienced in Eve.
Running a 20man fleet is harder to create & sustain than 2x 10man fleets. Reward for all should reflect this. Reward balancing still needs sorting for all site types as well as each site per size grouping. No more lol scouts, and NCOs being mini-assaults. As said, bad sites will pile up while better ones exist to be run.
What happened to the idea of Scout sites spawn first, then VGs, then Assaults, then finally the Mom? Giving all sized ships & fleets an optimal time to attend the incursion, keeping more people moving aboud the different ones in highsec, and reducing the total access to VGs/the best blitzable site.
Why the hell is there only 1 lowsec incursion? Lowsec's terrible enough as is for doing anything but passing through or being a risk-averse pirate. If there were 3+ lowsec incursions at a time, a channel could at least run without 1 spy letting some gankers know the 1 place to go each time to ruin their day. Nullsec incursions could be run by whoever lives near, highsec ones are chased about by all, but lowsec is just the worst place to put only 1 bullseye for PvEers to sit in. I understand people would take cheap PvP fleets to do them, e.g. armour hacs, but still, just 1 incursion at a time seems blind to the realities of Eve. |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
243
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 17:58:00 -
[24] - Quote
Asmodes Reynolds wrote:CCP Affinity , before this thread gets out of control, I have questions for you;
What does CCP intend incursions to be?
Do you want them to draw conflict between null-sec and low-sec entities or low sec and high sec entities or both?
If your intention was to draw Null-sec entities into low sec, then you did the opposite
The CFC as a whole has abandoned them, and to my knowledge we were the only 0.0 entities bothered to run them in the first place. Pre-patch we could easily make 80-100 mill/hour running them one after another. We Only run Vanguards, Because of the logistics of moving ships and keeping the required number of people in Fleet over the long term. Post-patch the most you can make is about is about 80 mil/hour I think it averages out to be about 60 may be 65mil an hour . Which the average null sec dweller can easily make that by running anomalies in there home space. So why bother with the logistics to move ships and organize a fleet sometimes 40 jumps from home?
If your intentions were to to create conflict between high-sec entities and Losec entities.
Then you will need to widen the Profit margin between high sec incursions and Losec incursions while keeping it below what someone can make doing anomalies in sovereignty space. You need to make it enough to justify the logistics issues and the danger increase. Or my personal favorite just remove them from high sec entirely. (If Concord with a 200 man fleet of goon/test tornados In under One minute Then such invaders should be no problem lol)
do you intend them to be just an alternate activity to the existing PVE mechanics or do you wish them to pay out more?
Where do you intend that the bulk of the incentives to run these to come from?
I look forward to your responses, and I hope my comments are helpful.
The original goals for Incursions were to provide group game play, high end PvE opportunities and high risk content. I would like them to eventually be at a point where they have a high enough risk to warrant a high end reward. I would also like the incentives to come from a growing community but a place to experience a PvP like style of gameplay within a storyline setting. I will provide more info on this after we sort out the short-term problems.
CCP Affinity | Team Five 0 |-á @CCP_Affinity |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
243
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:00:00 -
[25] - Quote
Just Alter wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:
I have already been in talks with Ronin and Serge and quite a few other people within the community - it's been a really good learning experience for me :)
Holy s*it! I can believe what i am reading!! A dev actually talking with players and not hiding behind "csm blah blah yada yada". Also you choose good people to talk to. I must say that after these few post of yours you seem one of the best dev around and i personally like your style. Keep it up, you could do grand things.
Thanks! Feel free to post again ;) CCP Affinity | Team Five 0 |-á @CCP_Affinity |
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Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
157
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:02:00 -
[26] - Quote
Daneel Trevize wrote: What happened to the idea of Scout sites spawn first, then VGs, then Assaults, then finally the Mom? .
I think all sites, except the MOM, should be available most of the time. You don't want the advanced players to quickly kill the noob sites so they can then get access to their sites. That would leave the new players out in the cold.
Maybe have the scout spawn first but stick around once the other sites have been spawned. That way the new players can run them a few times as well. Makes sense as you would expect some random bad guys to be hanging around on the outskirts of their fleet
On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton where the dripping patchouli was more than scent, It was a sun-á |
Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
157
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:04:00 -
[27] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:
The original goals for Incursions were to provide group game play, high end PvE opportunities and high risk content. I would like them to eventually be at a point where they have a high enough risk to warrant a high end reward. I would also like the incentives to come from a growing community but a place to experience a PvP like style of gameplay within a storyline setting. I will provide more info on this after we sort out the short-term problems.
For the most part, this is working I feel. Just tweak some sites/rewards and revamp the noob Scout sites
On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton where the dripping patchouli was more than scent, It was a sun-á |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
243
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:04:00 -
[28] - Quote
Daneel Trevize wrote:Discussions shouldn't be private. Obviously certain individuals are experienced in the topic, and these forums are terrible for productive debate, but the key points need to be acknowledged to be recieved by CCP, less they just keep getting repeated in every vaguely related thread. Some other points from my experience & observations:
- Min-maxing will happen. AFAIK it is accepted for missions, nullsec player vs rats isk sources, and sleepers. And those things can be run be each specific character near 100% of the time for their max rate, while incursions do move, have wait-lists and most importantly Contests.
- Running the min-maxed channel of players & fits is effort. Most people happily give some of their reward back to those running these, of course they are also benefitting from the higher isk rate of their existance, but paying FCs, booster alts and ore droppers is a thing.
- Disconnects happen, suicide ganks happen in and between incursions, hauling ships about highsec is more effort than earning isk in null & w-space.
Solo ratting tengus/machs/(super)cap ships in null are terrible gameplay. Group sleepers farming is mechanical but at least a fleet op and with the unstoppable risk of sieged/triaged blinged-out cap ships being caught out. Incursions were the best PvE content I've ever experienced in Eve. Running a 20man fleet is harder to create & sustain than 2x 10man fleets. Reward for all should reflect this. What happened to the idea of Scout sites spawn first, then VGs, then Assaults, then finally the Mom? Why the hell is there only 1 lowsec incursion? Lowsec's terrible enough as is for doing anything but passing through or being a risk-averse pirate. If there were 3+ lowsec incursions at a time, a channel could at least run without 1 spy letting some gankers know the 1 place to go each time to ruin their day. Nullsec incursions could be run by whoever lives near, highsec ones are chased about by all, but lowsec is just the worst place to put only 1 bullseye for PvEers to sit in. I understand people would take cheap PvP fleets to do them, e.g. armour hacs, but still, just 1 incursion at a time seems blind to the realities of Eve.
I agree completely and that is what I am trying to do with this thread. It does also help me to hear from key members of the community though, it's been very rewarding.
Also, thank you for your feedback CCP Affinity | Team Five 0 |-á @CCP_Affinity |
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Daneel Trevize
The Scope Gallente Federation
102
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:08:00 -
[29] - Quote
If I didn't say it already, also add my thanks to reading & responding promptly. Especially with things like post being repeatedly edited & rushed.
Can you give a shortlist of points accepted/high on the consideration by CCP? Detailed things, like the NPC RR in a given site, or range of things spawning, or hull classes/fitting choices that are being promoted/restricted? E.g. do you design sites expecting people to learn to go with AB + medium weapons, or almost-stationary BSs, or try to permit both fleets? |
Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
157
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:19:00 -
[30] - Quote
Lyron-Baktos wrote:Regarding new players, I have only done Scout belt ratting and not the actual Scout sites, if they exist, but you could buff those and put a limit on the ship types.
I ran it with a Harbinger and one other player and it was so boring and the payout was awful. I'd rather watch TV than kill a few rats for 50K isk plus LP -beef up the rewards to about half of what a VG site would pay. maybe about 3-6 minutes of work for just a couple million ISK -put a ship restriction on the acceleration gate, probably BC and lower -
to quote me, the level of difficulty of the Scout belt rates in my experience was also a joke. Even if you buffed up the rewards, I still probably would not do it as it was so boring. But you can't make it too hard as the very, very new players would have trouble. Maybe buff up the difficulty of it a bit and limit the ships to Destroyer - BC's
On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton where the dripping patchouli was more than scent, It was a sun-á |
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