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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 26 post(s) |
Just Alter
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
101
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:31:00 -
[31] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:
The original goals for Incursions were to provide group game play, high end PvE opportunities and high risk content. I would like them to eventually be at a point where they have a high enough risk to warrant a high end reward. I would also like the incentives to come from a growing community but a place to experience a PvP like style of gameplay within a storyline setting. I will provide more info on this after we sort out the short-term problems.
Quote:place to experience a PvP like style of gameplay within a storyline setting.
My personal feedback on this specific concept would be: incursion current level of similarity with pvp is more than enough (maybe add ship that have to be scrambled) if someone wanted to do pvp he would go to null sec.
I think it's much more important to evolve the storyline aspect and the progression aspect, like titles or clothes or other barely useful stuff like that.
I know this idea will seem awful to most people (thinking about tf2 or wow hats/pets) but it's the easiest and surest way to enhance pve content without screwing over the market and pvp.
Also i think in eve there's a chance it would not be too bad: going around with the title "Bane of Sansha" would be a gank magnet .
Just an idea though. |
Kodavor
Mine3
12
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Posted - 2012.05.09 19:07:00 -
[32] - Quote
With the current site mechanics ISN can max out at about 100mill/h +/-but that is with an oiled fleet and top notch performance . One of the main questions is : What is the isk/h level that you want to allow the average Incursion pilot to earn ? Currently they stand at about 40ish + . There are those who run the sites more and thosee who run them less . Whatever is changed will be min-maxed by the capable and used ( Me :P ) Majority don't crunch numbers and don't spend time on maxing out the ship fits . They fit so that they would be accepted in a fleet when they X-up in the Incursion local / Btl Pub .
Those who can addapt will do so . Those who can't will leave /stay if the changes are deemed negative / possitive for them . |
Stick Cult
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2012.05.09 19:23:00 -
[33] - Quote
GÖÑ CCP Affinity |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
99
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Posted - 2012.05.09 19:40:00 -
[34] - Quote
Lyron-Baktos wrote:Regarding new players, I have only done Scout belt ratting and not the actual Scout sites, if they exist, but you could buff those and put a limit on the ship types.
I ran it with a Harbinger and one other player and it was so boring and the payout was awful. I'd rather watch TV than kill a few rats for 50K isk plus LP -beef up the rewards to about half of what a VG site would pay. maybe about 3-6 minutes of work for just a couple million ISK -put a ship restriction on the acceleration gate, probably BC and lower - this. please ramp up the difficulty and payout of scout sites. the way they are now, they are a waste of server resources. something along the lines of 4/10 to 5/10 DED sites with isk/hr that are between lvl3 and lvl4 missions would be optimal imo. |
Frooth
Unleet Industries LLC Lunar Industries Partnership
4
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Posted - 2012.05.09 19:48:00 -
[35] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Kiyarii Oskold wrote:Really, 3+ months turn-around for what was once a full expansion's main feature? Too little, too late?
Learn to 'little & often', CCP. Less knee-jerk panic, your instincts have been terrible. We want to avoid making a knee jerk panic decision.. so we are reading all the feedback before making a change. We are only talking short term changes, we will consider long-term redesigns after the Summer.
Implenting the current incursion changes wassent a panic desision then ? since you are now considering changing the 10% payment back. little wierd you wanna tweek incursions again on such a short notice.
No changes had been made on the VG sites while people where testing them on SiSi and those same sites are live now. seems like you are using the live servers as the testing ground now feels like i have been wasting my time on the sisi server.
Sad thing is that the most important thing these changes had really effect on is the shrinking of the incursion community since a knee jerk panic decision was made. Now you need to ''iterate'' them again to stall a shrinking community. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
71
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Posted - 2012.05.09 19:50:00 -
[36] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Lyron-Baktos wrote:CCP Affinity - What is CCP's goal for incursions in regards to hi/lo? Where does CCP see Incursions in regards to other isk making activities. Do you want to reward it more based on risk or group participation? Do you see a spot for very new players in Incursions or just older players with billion isk ships? Long term we would like to balance all PvE income on a risk vs reward basis and make sure it all falls in line with other income in EVE. Incursions should be one of the higher end incomes in PvE, in my opinion, but we have to make sure we scale the risk to reflect that. I definitely see a spot for new players in Incursions and we need to ensure we have content that meets both new players and shiny fleets needs. This is definitely a long term plan.
The bolded part is very welcomed indeed. The orignal state of incursions was nothing like this at all, to the point where some people had to take it upon themselves to speed things up to kill the mom s that the farmers were basically protecting lol. No one can say that was working as intended.
I'm very glad you guys added group pve like this, but I'm glad you understand that if you do it wrong, the reverse of what you intend can and will happen.
I know people who took isk making alts out of null sec to just do high sec incursions, so instead of doing multiple escalation plexes (like fleet staging point, for instance, which makes you either go through gates, or light a cyno and risk a capital ship) where pvp (and thus economy driving consumption) can occur, they were more safely doing high sec incursions. That simply can't be what you guys wanted..... |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
310
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Posted - 2012.05.09 19:56:00 -
[37] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote: The original goals for Incursions were to provide group game play, high end PvE opportunities and high risk content. I would like them to eventually be at a point where they have a high enough risk to warrant a high end reward. I would also like the incentives to come from a growing community but a place to experience a PvP like style of gameplay within a storyline setting. I will provide more info on this after we sort out the short-term problems.
High risk content and a PvP like style gameplay will only come from fully opening up Incursions to PvP. It's stating the obvious, but it needs to be said, as your current High Sec Incursions completely fails in this regard.
Storyline would be great, but what we have is PvE Raiders farming for shinny loot, and little else. There needs to be a real chance of an Incursion winning and that having real consequences on everyone. Players ought to be able to fight on the side of the Sansha.
Short term you should remove Incursions from High Sec or nerf its income even further. Long term, you really need to go back to the drawing board. Give us dynamic story/lore driven content intertwined with player conflict that works with the Sandbox nature of EVE, not against the Sandbox and player conflict driven nature of EVE.
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Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
157
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Posted - 2012.05.09 20:03:00 -
[38] - Quote
Xorv wrote:[quote=CCP Affinity] It's stating the obvious, but it needs to be said, as your current High Sec Incursions completely fails in this regard.
How so? Incursions are very similar to how PVP works. You have your support ships, main DPS ships and logi ships. FC calls out primaries and secondaries. you have to watch range for shooting and staying in logi range.
There is only so much you can do with AI but I feel Incursions are a very good step to showing players how PVP works. CCP could add in more randomness I guess.
On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton where the dripping patchouli was more than scent, It was a sun-á |
Levy Break
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
27
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Posted - 2012.05.09 20:10:00 -
[39] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote: I have already been in talks with Ronin and Serge and quite a few other people within the community - it's been a really good learning experience for me :)
I'd also recommend contacting Electric Shoe ( https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/Electric%20Shoe ). He was our de-facto logistics coordinator, theorycrafter, and prime FC for the last few months when we still did lowsec/nullsec incursions. We prepared for the changes, anticipated it, swapped for shield fleet, gathered our wits for patch day, and a few days later we were all done with them. Vanguards took as much time to complete as assaults, so we tried assaults, which were okay-ish... until a system was poisoned with Nation Consolidation Networks, those sites took nearly an hour each on their own, even with a specialized fleet. All that time for 40 mil ISK/hr (on average, accounting formup times and downtime between sites from people dropping, etc, vs 100-110 mil ISK/hr pre patch, or even a consistent 60 mil ISK/hr ratting in forsaken hubs, without any faction spawns taken into account) PLUS placing your (very expensive and specialized) ship at high risk PLUS the backbreaking logistics required the move the ships just made it terrible to do.
But yeah, Electric Shoe was the one organizing us in those last days. We thought we'd be able to continue post-patch, but it proved to be otherwise. Lowered income, slower speeds, the higher man-power requirement, and the more expensive ships required all made it very difficult to justify. I'm sure he appreciates the break from his role, bit I for one miss the community running them made within the CFC, it was pleasant to be able to chat with people while making ISK for once.
Side note: An incursion spawned in CFC space last week and we got a broadcast on out jabber about it asking the incursion group to run it. I got a broadcast a little later saying how worthless we all are because nobody was running it. We won't even run them in own own space, whereas before we'd carrier jump across the galaxy to do a lowsec one. That's a drastic change in interest level.
Also, incursions are comparable to wormholes without the commitment of going into a wormhole, I'm not sure if that's good or bad. Pre-patch wormhole dwellers made more, but it was all indirect through the sale of loot, which made incursioning look more profitable.
But yeah, I'd like to see incursions respawn as something that's once again for fun and profit. (Unlike ratting in anoms which is strictly for profit... and boring.) |
COMM4NDER
Umbrella Holding Inc Umbrella Chemical Inc
84
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Posted - 2012.05.09 20:35:00 -
[40] - Quote
Well I would look into the LPs on this instead of pure isk. Putting some more stuff into the Concord LP store would also be something interesting. How about the new modules from the test server? (Adaptive Hardener, the shield booster with cap injectors etc.)
Random spawns are great, but why remove the blitzing of sites. I for once loved the fact that you could blitz OTAs with nice fleet but with the higher danger of dying. Flying in a faction ship jumping to hull dmg just as the final trigger is dead and Sansha warps away. now that was something. This should be for all sites, make it possible to blitz but with a _bigger_ risk of dying.
This is where good FCs will shine and make it more interesting to do incursions apart from other PVE experiance.
Issues with AS/HQ is that it need _allot_ of work from the FC and the players to make actually something worth the play. One thing would be to have a dynamic of payout with different sites.
Here is a thought, why not to have some kind of ratio between [Scout]-VG-AS-HQ The more the lower end sites are done the more they loose the ISK/LP reward "to some point" and the higher end sites gain in ISK/LP reward. This will make the HQ/AS more attractive.
TLDR For the short run: In short terms look over the blitzing for all sites but with the higher risk of dying (risk/reward). Check the balance of the isk/lp reward vs time on all sites both on highend fleet comp but also with lower end T1 ships. Long run? More LP stuff! More sites of each category with more variation maybe not just sansha? Think about lowering the sec status to .5 on each incursion system?
Some thoughts some good i think some less good. Also revisit lowsec and highsec incursions check from both the nullbears and highsec bears, only seeing incursion as one whole is bad. Features & Ideas Tag shortcuts - Make an FC enjoy his position more! Overview - Show fleet members only! |
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
226
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Posted - 2012.05.09 20:52:00 -
[41] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:
The original goals for Incursions were to provide group game play, high end PvE opportunities and high risk content. I would like them to eventually be at a point where they have a high enough risk to warrant a high end reward. I would also like the incentives to come from a growing community but a place to experience a PvP like style of gameplay within a storyline setting. I will provide more info on this after we sort out the short-term problems.
Couldn't agree more. Not enough risk in the Incursions atm. You've probably already figure this out but most of the "Incursion community" are only concerned with farming tons of isk for no risk. You're going to have to burn them down and start over with a new community.
If you really want to add pvp aspects to Incursions then make a mechanic such that players can take control of rats like we can take control of pos guns. Only so much you can do with a script before it becomes known and farmable and no risk. |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
247
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Posted - 2012.05.09 20:55:00 -
[42] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:Lyron-Baktos wrote:Regarding new players, I have only done Scout belt ratting and not the actual Scout sites, if they exist, but you could buff those and put a limit on the ship types.
I ran it with a Harbinger and one other player and it was so boring and the payout was awful. I'd rather watch TV than kill a few rats for 50K isk plus LP -beef up the rewards to about half of what a VG site would pay. maybe about 3-6 minutes of work for just a couple million ISK -put a ship restriction on the acceleration gate, probably BC and lower - this. please ramp up the difficulty and payout of scout sites. the way they are now, they are a waste of server resources. something along the lines of 4/10 to 5/10 DED sites with isk/hr that are between lvl3 and lvl4 missions would be optimal imo.
I really hope to be able to do something awesome with scout sites in the future - watch this space CCP Affinity | Team Five 0 |-á @CCP_Affinity |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
247
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Posted - 2012.05.09 20:57:00 -
[43] - Quote
COMM4NDER wrote:Well I would look into the LPs on this instead of pure isk. Putting some more stuff into the Concord LP store would also be something interesting. How about the new modules from the test server? (Adaptive Hardener, the shield booster with cap injectors etc.)
Random spawns are great, but why remove the blitzing of sites. I for once loved the fact that you could blitz OTAs with nice fleet but with the higher danger of dying. Flying in a faction ship jumping to hull dmg just as the final trigger is dead and Sansha warps away. now that was something. This should be for all sites, make it possible to blitz but with a _bigger_ risk of dying.
This is where good FCs will shine and make it more interesting to do incursions apart from other PVE experiance.
Issues with AS/HQ is that it need _allot_ of work from the FC and the players to make actually something worth the play. One thing would be to have a dynamic of payout with different sites.
Here is a thought, why not to have some kind of ratio between [Scout]-VG-AS-HQ The more the lower end sites are done the more they loose the ISK/LP reward "to some point" and the higher end sites gain in ISK/LP reward. This will make the HQ/AS more attractive.
TLDR For the short run: In short terms look over the blitzing for all sites but with the higher risk of dying (risk/reward). Check the balance of the isk/lp reward vs time on all sites both on highend fleet comp but also with lower end T1 ships. Long run? More LP stuff! More sites of each category with more variation maybe not just sansha? Think about lowering the sec status to .5 on each incursion system?
Some thoughts some good i think some less good. Also revisit lowsec and highsec incursions check from both the nullbears and highsec bears, only seeing incursion as one whole is bad.
Couldn't agree more on the need to flesh out the LP store - but this is not a short term, fix it by June project :) CCP Affinity | Team Five 0 |-á @CCP_Affinity |
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ChemicalQueen
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
5
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Posted - 2012.05.09 20:59:00 -
[44] - Quote
Levy Break wrote:CCP Affinity wrote: I have already been in talks with Ronin and Serge and quite a few other people within the community - it's been a really good learning experience for me :)
I'd also recommend contacting Electric Shoe ( https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/Electric%20Shoe ). He was our de-facto logistics coordinator,
Everything in this post pretty much sums up our experience with incursions. Please contact shoe. He was our thankless incursion leader, and was quite disappointed when he announced we had to disband. |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
247
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Posted - 2012.05.09 21:01:00 -
[45] - Quote
ChemicalQueen wrote:Levy Break wrote:CCP Affinity wrote: I have already been in talks with Ronin and Serge and quite a few other people within the community - it's been a really good learning experience for me :)
I'd also recommend contacting Electric Shoe ( https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/Electric%20Shoe ). He was our de-facto logistics coordinator, Everything in this post pretty much sums up our experience with incursions. Please contact shoe. He was our thankless incursion leader, and was quite disappointed when he announced we had to disband.
I will definitely do that, thanks! CCP Affinity | Team Five 0 |-á @CCP_Affinity |
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Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
101
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Posted - 2012.05.09 21:04:00 -
[46] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:Lyron-Baktos wrote:Regarding new players, I have only done Scout belt ratting and not the actual Scout sites, if they exist, but you could buff those and put a limit on the ship types.
I ran it with a Harbinger and one other player and it was so boring and the payout was awful. I'd rather watch TV than kill a few rats for 50K isk plus LP -beef up the rewards to about half of what a VG site would pay. maybe about 3-6 minutes of work for just a couple million ISK -put a ship restriction on the acceleration gate, probably BC and lower - this. please ramp up the difficulty and payout of scout sites. the way they are now, they are a waste of server resources. something along the lines of 4/10 to 5/10 DED sites with isk/hr that are between lvl3 and lvl4 missions would be optimal imo. I really hope to be able to do something awesome with scout sites in the future - watch this space you made me very happy :) |
Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
158
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Posted - 2012.05.09 21:21:00 -
[47] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:Lyron-Baktos wrote:Regarding new players, I have only done Scout belt ratting and not the actual Scout sites, if they exist, but you could buff those and put a limit on the ship types.
I ran it with a Harbinger and one other player and it was so boring and the payout was awful. I'd rather watch TV than kill a few rats for 50K isk plus LP -beef up the rewards to about half of what a VG site would pay. maybe about 3-6 minutes of work for just a couple million ISK -put a ship restriction on the acceleration gate, probably BC and lower - this. please ramp up the difficulty and payout of scout sites. the way they are now, they are a waste of server resources. something along the lines of 4/10 to 5/10 DED sites with isk/hr that are between lvl3 and lvl4 missions would be optimal imo. I really hope to be able to do something awesome with scout sites in the future - watch this space you made me very happy :)
Will be good even though I doubt I'll ever run them once they get fixed, lol. Giving 1-2 month old players a great experience in combat and teamwork will get them hooked on Eve, much better than solo mission work I'd imagine. My best memory so far in Eve was joining a fleet for the first time and watching everyone work together to get the job done
On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton where the dripping patchouli was more than scent, It was a sun-á |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
186
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Posted - 2012.05.09 21:28:00 -
[48] - Quote
Levy Break wrote:
Also, incursions are comparable to wormholes without the commitment of going into a wormhole, I'm not sure if that's good or bad. Pre-patch wormhole dwellers made more, but it was all indirect through the sale of loot, which made incursioning look more profitable.
I tend to agree with the above but actually Wormhole NPC buy orders inject more ISK into Eve then Incursions. The wormhole PvE residents on top of that get the melted nano ribbons salvage which I am told generates more income then the NPC buy orders ( blue loot ) thier reward for the risk& pain of moving things out of W-Space. I've seen ccp diagoras provide statistics on the number of Incursion runners for a day in February (~1700) but I've never seen a statistic on the number of runners of sleeper sites. Many W-Space residents I'm told do gas mining too.
I understand that now more of the Incursion runners are in shield fleets but I have not heard of any contact with the armor fleets. Once again the main contact for the armour community is: https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/Cozmic%20Cowboy CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" |
Herr Ronin
ISN - Management ISN - Incursion Shiny Network
68
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Posted - 2012.05.09 21:33:00 -
[49] - Quote
Lyron-Baktos wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:Lyron-Baktos wrote:Regarding new players, I have only done Scout belt ratting and not the actual Scout sites, if they exist, but you could buff those and put a limit on the ship types.
I ran it with a Harbinger and one other player and it was so boring and the payout was awful. I'd rather watch TV than kill a few rats for 50K isk plus LP -beef up the rewards to about half of what a VG site would pay. maybe about 3-6 minutes of work for just a couple million ISK -put a ship restriction on the acceleration gate, probably BC and lower - this. please ramp up the difficulty and payout of scout sites. the way they are now, they are a waste of server resources. something along the lines of 4/10 to 5/10 DED sites with isk/hr that are between lvl3 and lvl4 missions would be optimal imo. I really hope to be able to do something awesome with scout sites in the future - watch this space you made me very happy :) Will be good even though I doubt I'll ever run them once they get fixed, lol. Giving 1-2 month old players a great experience in combat and teamwork will get them hooked on Eve, much better than solo mission work I'd imagine. My best memory so far in Eve was joining a fleet for the first time and watching everyone work together to get the job done
Exactly, Incursions are all about community's, Yes there is **** community's like ISN who people hate or BTL, SSN, sUmmer and tons more that people love, But we are all doing the same thing, Having a great time, Incursions stopped me from quitting EVE Online, The reason why i like to Log into EVE Online is being part of a community, Having great guys to fly with, Not only that a lot of people have been given more opertunitys doing Incursions, Proving that they are not good a pvp but a AWESOME HQ Logistic or a Epic Drone bunny.
Yes Incursions have been Nerfed but i feel that they needed too, Not this much of course, This makes us aware of how good we had it, This is our wake up call, Of course CCP is going to make it harder to earn Isk in Incursions, This is why we are in these community's to adapt and overcome the challenge as a group.
Regardless of the Trolls or Off Topic post's, In-between them are Fantastic idea's and opinions, What makes this even better is that CCP is really looking into what you said, This isn't like WOW, Where they just fling it to the back of their mailbox, My view of CCP has changed completely due to these Incursion threads, It shows they care about there playerbase.
Yes they have not been 100% on the Dev Blogs stating all the Information and missing key points, At least they admit it, I feel that Inferno is starting to improve.
Note: To all who have not tried Incursions, Get into a Maelstrom and Join BTL Pub and then you will see how awesome they are :P Management Of ISN - Incursion Shiny Network
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Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
311
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Posted - 2012.05.09 21:46:00 -
[50] - Quote
Vaal Erit wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:
The original goals for Incursions were to provide group game play, high end PvE opportunities and high risk content. I would like them to eventually be at a point where they have a high enough risk to warrant a high end reward. I would also like the incentives to come from a growing community but a place to experience a PvP like style of gameplay within a storyline setting. I will provide more info on this after we sort out the short-term problems.
Couldn't agree more. Not enough risk in the Incursions atm. You've probably already figure this out but most of the "Incursion community" are only concerned with farming tons of isk for no risk. You're going to have to burn them down and start over with a new community.
This is an important aspect to the issues of Incursions that CCP developers need to understand. The High Sec Incursions "Community" is not the same as the EVE community. In fact the vision of EVE held by High Sec Incursion players is often diametrically opposed to the vision of EVE held by much of the rest of EVE's players. CCP needs to tread very carefully, appeasing the demands of Incursion players is likely to lose CCP credibility and good favor with larger parts of EVE's player base.
Lyron-Baktos wrote: How so? Incursions are very similar to how PVP works. You have your support ships, main DPS ships and logi ships. FC calls out primaries and secondaries. you have to watch range for shooting and staying in logi range.
There is only so much you can do with AI but I feel Incursions are a very good step to showing players how PVP works. CCP could add in more randomness I guess.
The day I can play EVE and the AI and game design is so good I can't tell the difference between an NPC and a Player will be the day I agree with your argument above. Also, if it really was so similar to PvP, why is there any objection to injecting real PvP into the mix?
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Asmodes Reynolds
Rayn Enterprises
24
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Posted - 2012.05.09 21:59:00 -
[51] - Quote
CCP Affinity, I have one more quick question for you, isn't CCP afraid that because hi sec incursion runners protected by Concorde, they can basically run sites 23/7, which virtually no operating costs, and basically no risk of un-consensual PVP however the low sec/null-sec do have the risk of un-consensual pvp and operating costs( safe towers, jump fuel, etc.), and there is only a 42% ( I believe I could be wrong) increasing pay-outs will unbalance the risk versus reward between the security levels?
for example one character can make the same amount or more in hi-sec incursions, as that same character would make you doing Sov anomalies(from bounties) however the risk of Sov anomalies is higher because of the risk of un-consensual PVP. |
Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
158
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Posted - 2012.05.09 22:07:00 -
[52] - Quote
Xorv wrote:
The day I can play EVE and the AI and game design is so good I can't tell the difference between an NPC and a Player will be the day I agree with your argument above. Also, if it really was so similar to PvP, why is there any objection to injecting real PvP into the mix?
I'd be fine with this tbh. Last game I played, the winner not only won the fight by destroying another players fleet, but they also made a ton of money from it. I would love to be able to blow up real players ships and be paid in liquid ISK when the fight was over. Looting never works as you normally have to donate those to the players that lost ships, or to the logi boats
If I could make ISK from PVP'ing, I would never leave 0.0
On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton where the dripping patchouli was more than scent, It was a sun-á |
Azura Solus
Canibus Liberum
4
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Posted - 2012.05.09 22:16:00 -
[53] - Quote
WARNING WALL-O-TEXT
Quote: The original goals for Incursions were to provide group game play, high end PvE opportunities and high risk content. I would like them to eventually be at a point where they have a high enough risk to warrant a high end reward. I would also like the incentives to come from a growing community but a place to experience a PvP like style of gameplay within a storyline setting. I will provide more info on this after we sort out the short-term problems.
First offf to CCP affinity Thanks for the quick responses and the clarifacation on what you intend incursions to be> This topic has been debated and beat in the ground worse then the dead horse. Anywho Copying my opinions on The incursion changes from ccp soundwaves post.
Heres my 2 cents on it.
I have ran incursions since December , Both Pug groups ,elitist groups. and i have ran my own high end incursion channel. Through out all this ill admit the amount of is i was getting Was Insane. In which i was able to turn around and spend that isk to pay for my accounts and buy some damn nice pvp ships. Now ill be the first to admit that the amount of isk The High end groups would make in Vg;s was a bit un balanced, But I also believe that you took the Nerf way too far CCP.
As has been stated many times before currently its just not worth it to do it. and honestly it could have been a really easy fix but was beaten till as stated its not worth it with exploration wh's and lvl 4's being a more viable option for people. Some claim they ran incursions for the social aspect of it and that's great. Some was only in it for the money. Which ever case it may be It made it possible, at least for me to plex my accounts and pay for my pvp.
TLDR; What i believe would be a decent fix for incursions is the following
Scout sites: Make them worth it to do them Ie lvl 4 payouts for all fleet members
VG:'s Make sites take around 5-8 Minutes 5 Being Shiny fleets 8 being pug fleets. and remove the payment reduction
Nco: Pretty decent as they are may remove some augas
NMC : Bring the mara in closer
Ota's: Take the mara and the hacking unit out
Assaults: These need to drastically increase in payouts. IMO around 25 mil per site And take around 10-16 minutes to complete
NCN's : Completely overhaul the site remove cruiser side make it multiple gate room. ( lighten up a bit on the neuts)
OCF's : Remove the ninja nerf where you put more spawns in there.( Fyi you didn't make them faster)
NCS's : Same as above.**
HQ's : Make them pay around 35-40 mil And take 23-30 minutes to complete: Now i dont know much about the sites but i do know one was ninja nerfed like the ocf's and ncs's Come on ccp Really we do see when this happens.
Anyhow there's my 2 cents
Edit : One of the biggest gripes pre escalation was how crowded the vg systems was I believe that Focusing on Buffing the Scout assualt, and Hq sites will do alot more for the game And incursion runners as a whole Then just slamming a nerf bat down
Edit 2: After reading your statement on what you intend incursions to be i still stand by most of the completion times i stated But can also agree with making the risk worth the reward. Also still stand by the fact the Vg's just need minor tweaking at this point. Real focuses should be on Scouts and assaults primarily along with the Hq's but others are more knowledgeable then me on those |
Janoun
Hedion University Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2012.05.10 00:23:00 -
[54] - Quote
I think low-sec Incursions took an unintended hit from the nerf bat with the recent incursion changes.
It used to be worth it to run Vanguard sites in low-sec if you knew what you were doing. Armor HACs in proper PvP setups would generate better income than a highsec fleet and when you did get into fights you stood a good chance. As it stands now, VG sites aren't worth running and Assaults are simply impractical for low-sec. To exceed the income levels you can reach doing them in highsec you must use faction fitted pirate Battleships. Not only are their PvE fits ill suited for PvP, they're a much bigger bullseye, they're riskier to move around between systems, you need to change fleet comps for one of the sites and finally logistics is a bigger problem because Battleships fill up a Carrier real quick.
Basically, it's not worth it to travel to low-sec Incursions anymore. |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
249
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Posted - 2012.05.10 00:25:00 -
[55] - Quote
Total hypothetical talk here.. but how would you feel about, long-term, Scouts being proper training grounds - mirroring vanguard type risk with more hints/tutorials and less reward? Geared towards settling new members into the community. CCP Affinity | Team Five 0 |-á @CCP_Affinity |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
249
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Posted - 2012.05.10 00:32:00 -
[56] - Quote
Azura Solus wrote:WARNING WALL-O-TEXT Quote: The original goals for Incursions were to provide group game play, high end PvE opportunities and high risk content. I would like them to eventually be at a point where they have a high enough risk to warrant a high end reward. I would also like the incentives to come from a growing community but a place to experience a PvP like style of gameplay within a storyline setting. I will provide more info on this after we sort out the short-term problems.
First offf to CCP affinity Thanks for the quick responses and the clarifacation on what you intend incursions to be> This topic has been debated and beat in the ground worse then the dead horse. Anywho Copying my opinions on The incursion changes from ccp soundwaves post. Heres my 2 cents on it. I have ran incursions since December , Both Pug groups ,elitist groups. and i have ran my own high end incursion channel. Through out all this ill admit the amount of is i was getting Was Insane. In which i was able to turn around and spend that isk to pay for my accounts and buy some damn nice pvp ships. Now ill be the first to admit that the amount of isk The High end groups would make in Vg;s was a bit un balanced, But I also believe that you took the Nerf way too far CCP. As has been stated many times before currently its just not worth it to do it. and honestly it could have been a really easy fix but was beaten till as stated its not worth it with exploration wh's and lvl 4's being a more viable option for people. Some claim they ran incursions for the social aspect of it and that's great. Some was only in it for the money. Which ever case it may be It made it possible, at least for me to plex my accounts and pay for my pvp. TLDR; What i believe would be a decent fix for incursions is the following Scout sites: Make them worth it to do them Ie lvl 4 payouts for all fleet members VG:'s Make sites take around 5-8 Minutes 5 Being Shiny fleets 8 being pug fleets. and remove the payment reduction Nco: Pretty decent as they are may remove some augas NMC : Bring the mara in closer Ota's: Take the mara and the hacking unit out Assaults: These need to drastically increase in payouts. IMO around 25 mil per site And take around 10-16 minutes to complete NCN's : Completely overhaul the site remove cruiser side make it multiple gate room. ( lighten up a bit on the neuts) OCF's : Remove the ninja nerf where you put more spawns in there.( Fyi you didn't make them faster) NCS's : Same as above.** HQ's : Make them pay around 35-40 mil And take 23-30 minutes to complete: Now i dont know much about the sites but i do know one was ninja nerfed like the ocf's and ncs's Come on ccp Really we do see when this happens. Anyhow there's my 2 cents Edit : One of the biggest gripes pre escalation was how crowded the vg systems was I believe that Focusing on Buffing the Scout assualt, and Hq sites will do alot more for the game And incursion runners as a whole Then just slamming a nerf bat down Edit 2: After reading your statement on what you intend incursions to be i still stand by most of the completion times i stated But can also agree with making the risk worth the reward. Also still stand by the fact the Vg's just need minor tweaking at this point. Real focuses should be on Scouts and assaults primarily along with the Hq's but others are more knowledgeable then me on those
Thanks for the feedback. NMC : Bring the mara in closer - this is something I have heard a lot! CCP Affinity | Team Five 0 |-á @CCP_Affinity |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
249
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Posted - 2012.05.10 00:35:00 -
[57] - Quote
Also a huge thank you to everyone who has posted so far - this is exactly the kind of thread I wanted! Useful feedback and carefully thought out posts. You guys are awesome :) CCP Affinity | Team Five 0 |-á @CCP_Affinity |
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Azura Solus
Canibus Liberum
5
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Posted - 2012.05.10 00:53:00 -
[58] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Total hypothetical talk here.. but how would you feel about, long-term, Scouts being proper training grounds - mirroring vanguard type risk with more hints/tutorials and less reward? Geared towards settling new members into the community.
Are you talking Like VG size fleets with reduced pay with some type of aura tutorial or something like that?
or
Small scale gang sites with payment inbtween current and vg's for basic intro to fleet life |
ISN Spy spizors
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2012.05.10 00:54:00 -
[59] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote: I have already been in talks with Ronin and Serge and quite a few other people within the community - it's been a really good learning experience for me :)
Should have talked to Noble Ranger instead, hes the one actually running and keeping ISN alive :/
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
250
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Posted - 2012.05.10 00:56:00 -
[60] - Quote
ISN Spy spizors wrote:CCP Affinity wrote: I have already been in talks with Ronin and Serge and quite a few other people within the community - it's been a really good learning experience for me :)
Should have talked to Noble Ranger instead, hes the one actually running and keeping ISN alive :/
I am also talking with him :) Talking with Noble Ranger, Ronin and Kodavor CCP Affinity | Team Five 0 |-á @CCP_Affinity |
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