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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
263
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:30:00 -
[61] - Quote
sovereignty based factionwarcusrions!
i dont want to live on this feature anymore.
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg |
ogletorp
Surrender Dorothy Bipolar Stability
0
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:33:00 -
[62] - Quote
The changes in datacores will only make invention a less viable profession. As it is an inventor can't compete with t2 original blueprints. Leave datacores alone they are not that great of a passive income and profit margin on invention isn't that great considering that it is chance based. |
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
1509
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:35:00 -
[63] - Quote
I'm missing something.
What about the LP gain for podding an Amarrian that had a, example, high grade slave set ?
Don't tell me there's no reward for podding people ?? o_O Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
384
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:35:00 -
[64] - Quote
Some concerns with the new system:
Many mods are shared between all factions' FW LP stores. Let's say Gallente win while Amarr and Minmatar are on even ground - the market value of any shared module will be determined by the Gallente militia, and they will cease to be a viable option for LP purchases. Only unique FW LP store options would be viable purchases, like faction ships.
More importantly, you're likely to see a snowballing effect when one side starts winning. If one side starts gaining the advantage, then FW is going to be easymode LP farming all day e'ery day with dirt-cheap faction mod prices and bonuses to LP gain, whereas the loser's side will be virtually worthless from an ISK perspective. You think this will just make the opposing faction fight harder, but people aren't locked into their militias. They will just leave or switch sides. New people wanting to get into the militia will join whichever side is winning for the financial benefits.
I predict that if this change sees TQ as is, the Caldari militia (and perhaps the Amarr militia) will just quit. If not immediately, their numbers will dwindle more and more, and more and more people will join Minmatar/gallente to reap the rewards and FW will become dead except as a means of ISK grinding.
You need to create some mechanism that encourages people to join and stay on the losing side. The price crash of faction ships will somewhat compensate for the LP drain (if Caldari loses then hookbills are going to be so goddamn expensive...), but a significant portion of the FW LP store is shared so I'm not sure that'll compensate enough.
Maybe I'm being paranoid... |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2324
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:41:00 -
[65] - Quote
Mike deVoid wrote: I think this rewards the guys fighting from zero the most - and who deserve it! On the other hand, moving from 80% to 100% of systems should give you the smallest reward since you are already steamrolling the opposition.
In my experience, the market *could* take care of a lot of this issue. We've already seen that the factions with the easiest level 4 missions had flooded the market with their LP store rewards, which were worth less than the other factional items.
As one faction stays dominant in a warzone and continues to accumulate LP, the prices for those items will go down and down on the market, devaluing the LP. The losing end, however, will have the more sought after LP store items, which while more expensive in the LP store could be worth even more by the time they reach the market.
The market will play a huge factor in FW activity from this point on, but in what fashion remains to be seen. Its just not something that's testable in a CCP office of on Singularity. Thankfully CCP has committed to tracking this and adjusting this as needed throughout the coming year and into the winter expansion, which will have even more FW goodies.
Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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Kelidri
Omicron Persei 8
0
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:43:00 -
[66] - Quote
Question about datacores... So will players outside of factional warfare no longer be able to pursue R&D for datacores or will they just be competing with the factional warfare players to sell their datacores? |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1610
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:47:00 -
[67] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:If the Minmatar militia "wins" and captures most Amarr systems, a few things will happen:
- The bottom drops out of the Minmatar faction stuff market
- Amarr faction ships become far more expensive
- Amarr militia old guard will continue attacking FW space and easily taking complexes (because there are so many systems with so many complexes), being able to keep their own wallets up by selling the more expensive items less often.
- Militia false weather friends will get bored and go do something else when Firetails sell for 2 mil apiece.
- Possible Amarr resurgence.
Or I could be completely wrong and something else would happen. This is a very large list of changes with very complex consequences, and I'm not sure that we can simply predict what will happen. We will just have to wait and see, and have fun in the meantime.
That seems pretty pie in the sky deluded to me, especially given historic behavior when FW was first released. As long as there's a strong market for the rest of the Minmatar faction's stuff, the price of Firetails will not and cannot bottom out. Basically: the Minnie FW would have to literally supply every bit of LP related goods for the entire game for that to happen.
I still see no conflict driver.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Shar Tegral
165
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:49:00 -
[68] - Quote
Don't know if it has been said already: Each faction should have access to Mechanical Engineering. |
Ahazu Sagam
ZERO HEAVY INDUSTRIES 24eme Legion Etrangere
10
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:52:00 -
[69] - Quote
Will i still be able to dock in enemy high sec, like it is on SISI right now. |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1610
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:52:00 -
[70] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Mike deVoid wrote: I think this rewards the guys fighting from zero the most - and who deserve it! On the other hand, moving from 80% to 100% of systems should give you the smallest reward since you are already steamrolling the opposition. In my experience, the market *could* take care of a lot of this issue. We've already seen that the factions with the easiest level 4 missions had flooded the market with their LP store rewards, which were worth less than the other factional items. As one faction stays dominant in a warzone and continues to accumulate LP, the prices for those items will go down and down on the market, devaluing the LP. The losing end, however, will have the more sought after LP store items, which while more expensive in the LP store could be worth even more by the time they reach the market. The market will play a huge factor in FW activity from this point on, but in what fashion remains to be seen. Its just not something that's testable in a CCP office of on Singularity. Thankfully CCP has committed to tracking this and adjusting this as needed throughout the coming year and into the winter expansion, which will have even more FW goodies.
So the thing about that is that running L4s is not conflict driven. You don't have to generally worry about someone running missions for an opposing faction coming in to gank you or otherwise hinder your mission running. I don't think that's a legitimate comparison.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Tressin Khiyne
The Tuskers
6
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:54:00 -
[71] - Quote
Will there be a skill reimbursement for R&D skills? It seems that the weight of the change lends itself to giving players a chance to rethink their choice in training those skills. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
82
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:56:00 -
[72] - Quote
And when do you propose to actually balance FW and will you reset everything at that time as well?
Fun facts: - Amarr has 20 (handful of deadends with nothing in them) systems vs. ~35 on Shakorite side. - Amarr FW space is a big-ass donut, takes just a few minutes to reach any system. Shakorite side has numerous bottlenecks and it takes 15-20 minutes to reach the deepest systems (from Amarr space). - Shakorites can cap ALL size plexes with a single frigate, Amarr needs gangs of increasing sizes (as intended) unless speed tanking *spit*.
Combined with the insanely farm-able LP for plexes you end up with a massive increase in plexing activity on the Shakorite side, I fully expect a complete Amarr collapse (ie. all systems under Shakors boot-heel) within 4-5 weeks simply due to the fact that it is utterly impossible to 'compete' without having 4-5 times the number of pilots to make up for the difference in ease-of-plexing.
PS: Thank you for introducing the PLEX system all those years ago, if I had paid you anything but my time since then I would probably do unspeakable things to my computer now out of hate/frustration for being a fool and being backstabbed.
'Nuff said. Have a ton of ships to move to border systems, so gotta run. |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
385
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:58:00 -
[73] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:If the Minmatar militia "wins" and captures most Amarr systems, a few things will happen:
- The bottom drops out of the Minmatar faction stuff market
- Amarr faction ships become far more expensive
- Amarr militia old guard will continue attacking FW space and easily taking complexes (because there are so many systems with so many complexes), being able to keep their own wallets up by selling the more expensive items less often.
- Militia false weather friends will get bored and go do something else when Firetails sell for 2 mil apiece.
- Possible Amarr resurgence.
Or I could be completely wrong and something else would happen. This is a very large list of changes with very complex consequences, and I'm not sure that we can simply predict what will happen. We will just have to wait and see, and have fun in the meantime. That seems pretty pie in the sky deluded to me, especially given historic behavior when FW was first released. As long as there's a strong market for the rest of the Minmatar faction's stuff, the price of Firetails will not and cannot bottom out. Basically: the Minnie FW would have to literally supply every bit of LP related goods for the entire game for that to happen. I still see no conflict driver. -Liang
This. The key point here is that each militia LP store has a ton of generic items shared across many LP stores. When one faction gets a significant advantage, the ease of getting LP and the decreased prices will make even non-FW-exclusive items like hardwirings viable to get. When this happens, the price of FW-exclusive stuff will stop dropping, meaning there's a hard floor (and not a very low floor) to where faction-exclusive mods can get.
A winning faction's LP store will be easymode infinite ISK unless such a huge proportion of the EVE population joins that faction that LP value as a whole tanks.
At this point, the only viable items in the opposite faction's LP stores will be faction ships and other unique stuff...Which means fewer people are needed to drop the price...which means that in addition to it being harder to get LPs, the market for losing-faction LP goods will crash way, way faster. Until the losing side started to get back on equal ground with the winning side, their LP store would not support that many people...
But until they get that many people, they cannot get back on equal ground. It's a catch-22. |
Thomas Kreshant
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
73
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Posted - 2012.05.09 19:00:00 -
[74] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:
I still see no conflict driver.
-Liang
I'm assuming they believe that for example Caldari ships getting more expensive will drive people that fly them to take part on the Caldari side to recitify that, it's an experiment maybe it will work and maybe it won't.
Well all said and done though the real driver ends up being wanting to fight for faction 'x' for ***** and giggles or being all roleplay about it same as any other part of the game.
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
943
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Posted - 2012.05.09 19:00:00 -
[75] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:- Shakorites can cap ALL size plexes with a single frigate, Amarr needs gangs of increasing sizes (as intended) unless speed tanking *spit*. Exactly what frigate do you have in mind that can deal with neuts and tracking disruption? Only thing that comes to mind are bombers, and they do not deal well with frigate spawns at all. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
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CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
926
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Posted - 2012.05.09 19:00:00 -
[76] - Quote
Shar Tegral wrote:Don't know if it has been said already: Each faction should have access to Mechanical Engineering.
We-¦re definitely keeping an eye on this development. As mentioned, this team will continue looking at FW after Inferno with the priority being 1: make changes to what we just shipped (potentially to ME datacores) and then 2: improving FW even more with new changes.
If something doesn-¦t end up the way we like it, they-¦ll change it. Once it-¦s in a place where everything is how we want it to be, they-¦ll move on and do more new FW features.
Winter is going to be pretty sweet. |
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Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
51
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Posted - 2012.05.09 19:01:00 -
[77] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:If the Minmatar militia "wins" and captures most Amarr systems, a few things will happen:
- The bottom drops out of the Minmatar faction stuff market
- Amarr faction ships become far more expensive
- Amarr militia old guard will continue attacking FW space and easily taking complexes (because there are so many systems with so many complexes), being able to keep their own wallets up by selling the more expensive items less often.
- Militia false weather friends will get bored and go do something else when Firetails sell for 2 mil apiece.
- Possible Amarr resurgence.
Or I could be completely wrong and something else would happen. This is a very large list of changes with very complex consequences, and I'm not sure that we can simply predict what will happen. We will just have to wait and see, and have fun in the meantime. That seems pretty pie in the sky deluded to me, especially given historic behavior when FW was first released. As long as there's a strong market for the rest of the Minmatar faction's stuff, the price of Firetails will not and cannot bottom out. Basically: the Minnie FW would have to literally supply every bit of LP related goods for the entire game for that to happen. I still see no conflict driver. -Liang
Also, The LP goods that require Tags will still be relatively expensive as Fw complex farming will be just as strong, Gyrostabs and tracking enhancers still work on other non fw ships, and the nullsec demand for those will always be strong. take a look at what happened with Imperial navy ENAM's, that mods utility for everything and their same base attributes as Fed navy enams dropped their price a bit, but they continued to sell well. while Fed navy enams got priced out of market because of lack of adequate tag supply (everyone bought other mods that needed the same tags for more profit)
another example of this, is at the same time Caldari FW was "winning" the prices of CN Invuls barely moved, because the demand for such mods was in so high.
While many mods are similar across several LP stores, each store has a few specific mods that will always sell relatively well because they are not shared. Firetails may drop in price, even bottom out , but the other modules that are not only LP based will become more common and maintain a good price. |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
3390
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Posted - 2012.05.09 19:02:00 -
[78] - Quote
Neat!
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Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave
106
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Posted - 2012.05.09 19:03:00 -
[79] - Quote
OMG, this Datacore stuff will become a chaos!!!! I'm running to Hi-sec to withdrown all my RP.... |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
82
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Posted - 2012.05.09 19:04:00 -
[80] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:- Shakorites can cap ALL size plexes with a single frigate, Amarr needs gangs of increasing sizes (as intended) unless speed tanking *spit*. Exactly what frigate do you have in mind that can deal with neuts and tracking disruption? Only thing that comes to mind are bombers, and they do not deal well with frigate spawns at all. For one (cheapest, so often used) AB Rifter can tracking-/speedtank all plexes .. have seen them tracking-/speedtank MINORS with full spawns for Goddess sake.
NPC/Faction balance are borked and SHOULD have been addressed ages ago and certainly well before any of this crap. |
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Maz3r Rakum
The Imperial Fedaykin
33
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Posted - 2012.05.09 19:04:00 -
[81] - Quote
0.0 lite. I'm so glad we can have sov warfare in low sec now.
/s
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Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions VP Consortium
621
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Posted - 2012.05.09 19:05:00 -
[82] - Quote
Congratulations.
You've made me give a ****.
Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
Haifisch Zahne
HZ Corp
5
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Posted - 2012.05.09 19:05:00 -
[83] - Quote
It seems to me a piece of the puzzle that is missing is how Rank fits in: rank should narrow what may be purchased in the LP store. One cannot simply switch sides, just to cash in when another side is winning. It would also be the basis of a diminishing returns since higher ranks would be more difficult to achieve.
How do you rise in Ranks? Meet Mr. Killboard. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
706
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Posted - 2012.05.09 19:06:00 -
[84] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:I must be missing what the driver for conflict is? It seemed like rewarding the winning side so heavily simply ensures that the best profit will be had by having everyone join the same faction... what am I missing?
-Liang you are missing the fact that there are people out there who want to have fun rather than maximizing profit. a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
386
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Posted - 2012.05.09 19:07:00 -
[85] - Quote
The only good way to fix this and maintain a reason to fight would be to completely redo FW LP stores.
Each FW LP store should only carry unique items that you cannot get (cheaply) anywhere else. The store should consist of unique items, or uniquely-cheap items. This would solve the problem and if one side started getting creamed, their LP values would shoot through the roof.
Quote:you are missing the fact that there are people out there who want to have fun rather than maximizing profit.
If I could have fun and get a bunch of ISK, or have fun and get none, I'm going to choose the former. Choosing the winning militia isn't necessarily any less fun. |
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CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
926
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Posted - 2012.05.09 19:08:00 -
[86] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:Congratulations. You've made me give a ****.
<3 |
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Dirk Smacker
Inglorious-Basterds
29
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Posted - 2012.05.09 19:08:00 -
[87] - Quote
Haifisch Zahne wrote:It seems to me a piece of the puzzle that is missing is how Rank fits in: rank should narrow what may be purchased in the LP store. One cannot simply switch sides, just to cash in when another side is winning. It would also be the basis of a diminishing returns since higher ranks would be more difficult to achieve.
Your rank in a militia corp doesn't change when you leave, it just doesn't get displayed.
I guess once you have a signature, you cannot have a blank one. |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
51
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Posted - 2012.05.09 19:09:00 -
[88] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:The only good way to fix this and maintain a reason to fight would be to completely redo FW LP stores. Each FW LP store should only carry unique items that you cannot get (cheaply) anywhere else. The store should consist of unique items, or uniquely-cheap items. This would solve the problem and if one side started getting creamed, their LP values would shoot through the roof. Quote:you are missing the fact that there are people out there who want to have fun rather than maximizing profit.
If I could have fun and get a bunch of ISK, or have fun and get none, I'm going to choose the former. Choosing the winning militia isn't necessarily any less fun.
problem is balancing these items to the rest of the game, an issue CCP is not well know for being able to deal with.
also several ways of farming have been opened up by this new FW plan. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
706
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Posted - 2012.05.09 19:10:00 -
[89] - Quote
Haifisch Zahne wrote:It seems to me a piece of the puzzle that is missing is how Rank fits in: rank should narrow what may be purchased in the LP store. One cannot simply switch sides, just to cash in when another side is winning. It would also be the basis of a diminishing returns since higher ranks would be more difficult to achieve.
How do you rise in Ranks? Meet Mr. Killboard. i am -9.5 with minmatar, switching sides isn't simple a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Maz3r Rakum
The Imperial Fedaykin
33
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Posted - 2012.05.09 19:10:00 -
[90] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Bloodpetal wrote:Congratulations. You've made me give a ****. <3
http://i.imgur.com/jNoGA.jpg |
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