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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Lost True
Paradise project
17
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Posted - 2012.05.10 09:22:00 -
[241] - Quote
Lost True wrote:I'm deeply disapointed about the way you're get rid of R&D. Quote: A change mentioned during Fanfest concerns datacores and research agents in general. While we do acknowledge that initial the initial period to train up for high-level research agents take times, effort and money, we are not particularly fond of the passive datacore income in general. Indeed, once the initial requirements are met, this is not so much of an active profession and more of a passive collection of items, which we want to look at.
Did anyone here ever heard sucn words as investment or a passive income? Or there is only a working class? Anyway, why don't just lower an RP/Day?
Ok, let's calculate actual proffit of R&D Agents now on TQ.
For a Rocket Science Field - above average one.
And with all V skills and a good personal standings to an agent.
it's cost 50 RP per core, and there is a ~120 RP/day, one core costs now 200k ISK:
120/50*200k = 480k
With Skill at V i can run 6 of them:
480k*6 = 2880k = 2.88mil
Let's say i've done a big investment and had 3 chars with that skills and standings (thankfuly i'm not):
2.88mil * 3 = 8.64mil/day
Which is:
8.64mil*30days = 259.2mil per month
So clear proffit is:
259.2mil - 485mil(PLEX) = -255.8mil
Plus the time spend on market while selling it. It's a big one because of a trade bots, or it'll be something like a minus 350mil of proffit.
So where is this huge passive income from the R&D agents? It's a MINUS 255 millions ISK!
It's ALREADY not so proffitable thing.
Well, then remove all of R&D agents completely, and reimbus the skills, because no one will use this **** anyway. |
DeBingJos
Avalon Project Shadow Rock Alliance
237
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 09:25:00 -
[242] - Quote
Lost True wrote:Lost True wrote:I'm deeply disapointed about the way you're get rid of R&D. Quote: A change mentioned during Fanfest concerns datacores and research agents in general. While we do acknowledge that initial the initial period to train up for high-level research agents take times, effort and money, we are not particularly fond of the passive datacore income in general. Indeed, once the initial requirements are met, this is not so much of an active profession and more of a passive collection of items, which we want to look at.
Did anyone here ever heard sucn words as investment or a passive income? Or there is only a working class? Anyway, why don't just lower an RP/Day? Ok, let's calculate actual proffit of R&D Agents now on TQ. For a Rocket Science Field - above average one. And with all V skills and a good personal standings to an agent. it's cost 50 RP per core, and there is a ~120 RP/day, one core costs now 200k ISK: 120/50*200k = 480kWith Skill at V i can run 6 of them: 480k*6 = 2880k = 2.88milLet's say i've done a big investment and had 3 chars with that skills and standings (thankfuly i'm not): 2.88mil * 3 = 8.64mil/dayWhich is: 8.64mil*30days = 259.2mil per monthSo clear proffit is: 259.2mil - 485mil(PLEX) = -255.8milPlus the time spend on market while selling it. It's a big one because of a trade bots, or it'll be something like a minus 350mil of proffit. So where is this huge passive income from the R&D agents? It's a MINUS 255 millions ISK!It's ALREADY not so proffitable thing. Well, then remove all of R&D agents completely, and reimbus the skills, because no one will use this **** anyway.
^^ This
Also you have take the cost of the skillbooks into account some of the are expensive and it takes time to get that isk back. Datacores are not a very big income.
Fix FW ! |
Edward Olmops
Sirius Fleet Bruderschaft der Pilger
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 09:29:00 -
[243] - Quote
I am extremely curious about how this works out, because I had some very negative experience with similar mechanisms in other games. Most prominently: Warhammer Online.
The game was an utter failure, because the endgame entirely relied on something like Factional Warfare. Basic problem: in a conflict with 2 sides, one side will get an advantage at some point and this could be simply a bigger number of players subcribing to that militia - maybe just because e.g. Gallente are the "coolest" faction atm.
The side with the more pilots is more likely to win fights and get rewarded - with cheaper LP stores etc.
Now 2 things are very likely to happen: a)Players on the losing side will lose interest in FW or change sides. Either because losing is to expensive or simply because losing does not make them feel good. b) And if new players enter FW, they are more likely to pick the dominant side. Maybe some players like the challenge or join a faction because they have no clue or they are hardcore RP people, but the winning side will alwas get more recruits. People LIKE cheap ships & LP stores!!!
So the dominance of the winning side will become bigger and bigger until after a while either Gallente OR caldari will own all the contested systems.
CCP states something about "diminishing returns", but as I said, I do really see this danger and I am curious how it works out.
Alternative scenario: If changing sides is possible without great cost, a kind of super-organization may arise (like the Incursion Fleet Corps) that keeps changing sides in order to play with the market prices. Join one faction, make them win, stockpile cheap stuff - then change sides and watch prices for your stockpiled stuff explode.
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S810 Jr
Shadows Of The Federation Drunk 'n' Disorderly
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 09:36:00 -
[244] - Quote
Not sure if it's been said yet, and I'll be damned if I'm reading 13 pages of emo posts on datacores to check.
The iHub LP buffer, if I'm reading that right it's only 50K LP, which means the enemy only needs to earn a total of 100,001 LP to knock off the level V. That is just 2x minors, 2x mediums, 2x majors.... REALLY!? All you'll have happening is people goto sleep, wake up and their iHub has no LP left in it because 1 guy with his alts decided to wipe it out.
We should at least be able to buffer it for 12hours worth of Outpost type spawns (they still 30mins after despawn or 1 hour now?) |
Kirikarasu
R3D SHIFT
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 09:41:00 -
[245] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Shar Tegral wrote:Don't know if it has been said already: Each faction should have access to Mechanical Engineering. We-¦re definitely keeping an eye on this development. As mentioned, this team will continue looking at FW after Inferno with the priority being 1: make changes to what we just shipped (potentially to ME datacores) and then 2: improving FW even more with new changes. If something doesn-¦t end up the way we like it, they-¦ll change it. Once it-¦s in a place where everything is how we want it to be, they-¦ll move on and do more new FW features. Winter is going to be pretty sweet.
I noticed in the handy dandy graph for the races and Data Cores that 3 of the 4 races have access to 4 Data Cores while the Amarr have access to 5. Perhaps you should add Mechanical Engineering to the other 3 races to make it fair. |
Rob Crowley
State War Academy
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 10:15:00 -
[246] - Quote
I'd like to know if for Starship Engineering agents I have the choice of getting datacores for 150 RP now or 100 RP + 10k ISK later or if you will normalize the accumulated RPs in regards to multipliers come patch day.
Also to all people asking for skill reimbursements: HTFU! The research skills will work exactly the same afterwards. |
Lord Okinaba
24
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Posted - 2012.05.10 10:32:00 -
[247] - Quote
Team Game of Drones aren't here to fix drones? |
Vyktor Abyss
Shadows Of The Federation Drunk 'n' Disorderly
139
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 10:44:00 -
[248] - Quote
A great blog, well presented information and I'm very glad you're going to iterate and keep a hand on the tiller, steering the good ship FW after deployment properly this time.
I've been around FW since the start and I'm quite excited by all these changes.
The best thing being the LP for PVP buff!
I do have a few questions and concerns though (much like everyone else):
1. System upgrades - Please give us a list of the upgrades possible, and roughly their order of value if it is 1-5. I'm all in favour of lower market taxes and more efficient manufacturing/research in lowsec.
2. Datacores - Please clarify if you are changing the existing method of collecting datacores from agents in various R&D corps more than just the multiplier and 10k base cost per datacore. Is FW a supplemental source of cores or will it be the sole source of cores after Inferno? Thanks. As other have mentioned, Mechanical Engineering is a rather tricky case putting them all in one militia LP store could end up in a bottleneck.
3. I have a concern about the upgrades applying neutrals. I appreciate the "get more people" doing industry in low sec is a good thing, but I am worried that major alliances and pirate groups will simply move in and have alts farm one system to fully upgraded so the pirate/large alliance that has nothing to do with 99% of FW can reap all the rewards.
4. System upgrades - Can you tell me what slots this creates, and if in a FW station with no research and manufacturing, you can now potentially upgrade it to have research and manufacturing? This would be awesome (but not unless you reserve some number of slots for FW characters only).
5. Non station FW systems - We need more reasons to upgrade these systems other just than some overall war 'tide' effect. Please consider a POS fuel reduction, cyno-jammers and perhaps some harvestable resource upgrade like booster gas clouds spawning there or something to add some 'life' and consequences to these systems too.
6. Please consider adding Mindlink Implants to FW LP stores. This would fit in quite well racially (even though being Gallente we'd get the crappiest one ). Potentially you could get Outer Ring Excavation loosely in on FW at some later date for the mining mindlink which would be rather cool.
All in all some fantastic changes and you're making FW much more dynamic, fun and have real consequences. I'm looking forward to how all this pans out. Cheers. |
Suek Thyben
Stoic Assembly Lines Trade Federation Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 10:52:00 -
[249] - Quote
How about lowering taxes on PI for militia members as the upgrades of systems go up? This would give smaller corps and gangs incetives to join and bring in industiral ships into the systems, which could create interesting PVP dynamic. It also should be easy to implement and it is allways noce to see systems interact together.
Also, it may reinvigorate market in contested space, as more neutrals will come to sell and buy PI goods (and its shame to make trip profitable only one way) |
Axl Borlara
T.R.I.A.D Defiant Legacy
29
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 10:59:00 -
[250] - Quote
Lyn Farel wrote:
But with that in mind, now, imagine a militia losing terribly to the point they lost most of their systems. What would push newcomers to go to the side of the losing faction ? I mean, except for the few people looking for challenge, most people in Eve think in terms of isk and advantages. I would bet that most of them will chose the winning side. [....] Another possible consequence of this is that a side might be winning for a very long time, making all the conflict in the area boring for everyone (lack of targets on one side and no fun on the other side).
Ok, you start by saying people will join the winning faction. Fine. But then you say joining that winning faction restricts the targets you have. Plus any rewards are shared between a lot more people. Surely they cancel each other out, to some degree?
Also, the more systems a faction controls, the more spread out the defenders will be (even if there are more). So taking systems back should be that bit easier.
No-one knows exactly what will happen. But that's the fun part. |
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Dirk Smacker
Inglorious-Basterds
31
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 11:09:00 -
[251] - Quote
Edward Olmops wrote:
The game was an utter failure, because the endgame entirely relied on something like Factional Warfare. Basic problem: in a conflict with 2 sides, one side will get an advantage at some point and this could be simply a bigger number of players subcribing to that militia - maybe just because e.g. Gallente are the "coolest" faction atm.
The side with the more pilots is more likely to win fights and get rewarded - with cheaper LP stores etc.
Now 2 things are very likely to happen: a)Players on the losing side will lose interest in FW or change sides. Either because losing is to expensive or simply because losing does not make them feel good. b) And if new players enter FW, they are more likely to pick the dominant side. Maybe some players like the challenge or join a faction because they have no clue or they are hardcore RP people, but the winning side will alwas get more recruits. People LIKE cheap ships & LP stores!!!
So the dominance of the winning side will become bigger and bigger until after a while either Gallente OR caldari will own all the contested systems.
I was lucky enough to wind up on the Darkside server for Warhammer Online , the only one that had somewhat equal factions (had alts on the others, they were game-killing like you said). However, the enemy could clearly outzerg(outblob) us for about 6-8 hours a day. The thing that kept us fighting through it was the underdog modifier which made it easier to flip maps 24 hours after a city seige.
Of course that wouldn't work in a sandbox game like EVE, but a modifier on the PvP kills LP for a losing faction would motivate them to fight, and could attract PvP corps to join their side instead of the lockouts warding them away.
I guess once you have a signature, you cannot have a blank one. |
Dirk Smacker
Inglorious-Basterds
31
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 11:21:00 -
[252] - Quote
Axl Borlara wrote: Also, the more systems a faction controls, the more spread out the defenders will be (even if there are more). So taking systems back should be that bit easier.
You know how they are making DUST 514 "Eve-like" by having ways to modify your build on the fly? Well, the lockout takes all that away for the back systems. The defenders won't be spread out. They just have to be close to where their opponents can dock.
Something else: It was pretty cool the way CCP didn't have the warzones set up like a sports field. They were unbalanced from the start. Correct me if wrong, but isn't there quite a few more Minmatar sov systems than Amarr (not talking about occupancy, actual empire sov)? The Cal-Gal warzone is fairly even in regards to current empire sov, so much larger that a few systems difference doesn't matter percentage wise.
However, both the Minmatr and Gallente enjoy a lot more tactical hi sec entry points into their enemy's sov. If there were consequences from the start, I doubt the warzones would look the way they do. Which is why it amazes me they aren't adding an Amarr warzone constellation, putting in 1-2 more station in empty systems near Tama, and other things that would make the warzones better for what they are about to implement. I guess once you have a signature, you cannot have a blank one. |
SwissChris1
Battlestars S E D I T I O N
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 11:28:00 -
[253] - Quote
Love all BUT the datacore changes.....I farm my datacores once a year and the payout is **** for the amount of time and effort it took for my alt to get 5 level 4 research agents he could use. A noob account can train PI skills quickly and make MUCH more money than I can with research agents...making me pay per datacore now is just retarted |
Dirk Smacker
Inglorious-Basterds
31
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 11:33:00 -
[254] - Quote
Vyktor Abyss wrote:6. Please consider adding Mindlink Implants to FW LP stores. This would fit in quite well racially (even though being Gallente we'd get the crappiest one ). Potentially you could get Outer Ring Excavation loosely in on FW at some later date for the mining mindlink which would be rather cool. 7. Plexes - Are you looking at changing any Plex mechanics? Specifically the gated predictable warp in point makes defending a plex much easier once you're in and set up. 8. NPCs - Are you rebalancing the NPCs of the different factions in plexes and missions with these changes? . 6. Ha! Dream on for the mining mindlink. That would be too much of an advantage. But I do like the idea for the combat mindlinks. Gallente would most likely end up with the info link. Suck it!
7. The plexes are untouched on SiSi. Thrasher takes down initial mob, orbits at 500, might as well be defensive plexing from then on.
8. Haven't seen a rebalancing. I may run a mission tonight but since the LP for the missions weren't changed last I checked, I doubt its been touched.
But yeah, I am also for a revamping of the npc's. I guess once you have a signature, you cannot have a blank one. |
Winterbliss
E X C E P T I O N Persona Non Gratis
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 12:04:00 -
[255] - Quote
Very welcomed changes indeed, however in the FW presentation at Fanfest you emphasised on system upgrades and getting back in to the combat quickly. How come we can't have a discount at the repairshop if our ship warps out extremely damaged? I think that should be one of the perks at least. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
402
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 12:04:00 -
[256] - Quote
For everyone that's talking about changing sides:
You do know you have to have a positive standing with the faction to join their side for FW?
And doing FW plexes involves killing the opposing side's ships. Thus tanking your standing with them?
Changing side once you've been playing a while isn't as easy as you might think. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities. |
Tosh Lines
Omniscient Order
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 12:35:00 -
[257] - Quote
Is there any fixes for low sec pvp? particularly the small simple things that could be easily fixed but are pretty detrimental to the game. Like carrier/orca docking?
There's little point even trying to break low sec gatecamps when all they do is dock in an orca and have the clean orca jump through the gate. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
85
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 12:48:00 -
[258] - Quote
Since you apparently "forgot" to include a mechanism that would allow the much vaunted pendulum to swing back once a given militia has been knocked out (any one with half a brain can see its coming with these changes) how about this:
- Mech. Engineering available in the stores for the two militias who fares the worst .. ONLY. - LP store provides the planned discount and surcharge dependent on warzone control, for all items except datacores. - LP store discount/surcharge is reversed and doubled (to account for "winners" getting more LP for everything to begin with) for datacores.
That might be enough to balance the scales a bit, probably not enough though but since you have decided you gut FW completely you should have no problems prolonging the agony. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
1966
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 13:33:00 -
[259] - Quote
I'd like to see the FW game penalize the losing faction(empire) some more without actually hitting those pilots fighting for the losing faction specifically.
For example, if a side loses its territory to represent the fact its losing the war I'd like to see transaction taxes going up in that faction's Hisec (faction high command clawing back some isk from hisec residents to fund the lowsec war).
Imagine just how exciting FW would get if the Caldari faction losing systems led to increased transaction taxes in Jita? Perhaps this could actually lead to the revitalization of other market hubs. Alternatively maybe the Jita bears would be more inclined to privately fund their miliita fighters to improve their transaction taxes.
This could be mapped on top of the new system pretty tidily I think.
Warzone control
1 terrible LP rewards - Emergency Transaction Tax Penalty in Empire Hisec 2 poor LP rewards -Increased Transaction Tax Penalty in Empire Hisec 3 Average LP rewards - Status Quo - Transaction Charges as Now 4 Good LP rewards - War Boon - Transaction Charges Reduced 5 excellent LP rewards - Victory Boon 0 Transaction Charges Reduced Significantly
The real payoff for this would be that the relative attractiveness of the 4 imperial trade hubs (jita, amarr, rens, dodixie) would change over time to reflect the result of faction warfare success and failure and stop being a static no-brainer as now.
One's faction getting hammered in FW will involve hisec players hoping to play the markets and trade their goods and hopefully encourage them to get involved.
Non faction war trade hubs (yulai, ammatar space etc) would have the virtue of stability without the immediate threat of bonus or penalty tariffs.
Consider this a proposal to spread the pain (and benefits) a little more widely and make the systems of Faction Warfare impact the rest of the server far more significantly than even FW 2.0 does.
Everyone in the known universe buys and sells from Jita (on alts if nothing else) - lets have the fortune's of the Jita market tied in some way to the fortunes of Caldari FW (and same for the other empires and hubs).
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Invictra Atreides
Toward the Terra
77
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 13:50:00 -
[260] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:I must be missing what the driver for conflict is? It seemed like rewarding the winning side so heavily simply ensures that the best profit will be had by having everyone join the same faction... what am I missing?
-Liang From a markets prospective it means that the winning site gets rly cheap stuff and the opposite stuff gets expensive.
Would that mean that if I stock on items now and then go push for the opposite faction that my items will increase in value :D
Blog |-áTutorials | Youtube "I donGÇÖt know everything, I just know what I know." |
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1832
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 13:59:00 -
[261] - Quote
Maz3r Rakum wrote:Salicaz wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: Thank you though, for keeping a positive attitude and for being willing to try something before judging it. Players like you should have a lot of fun in the days ahead, I wish everyone else felt the same.
CCP Guy> Hey guys, remember that broken feature we released years back called Faction Warfare? [Room erupts with howling laughter]. CCP Guy > [Wipes tear from eye after laughing so hard]. Lol! Iknorite! Well apparently some people still do it, no really they do! CCP Prat from meeting > Why haven't they left for null sec, our beloved end game vision? CCP Guy > I don't know, apparently they lived begrudgingly with the half arsed broken mess and.... CCP Prat from meeting > But why haven't they left for null sec, our beloved end game vision? CCP Guy > shrugs* CCP Prat from meeting > **** em, bring null sec to them then, lock them out of station. I can't believe they still do it lol! We even stopped adding news to the militia office window in Feb 2010. Let them have a helping prod into the direction that be null! [rapturous applaud from the rest of the meeting] CCP Guy > They're bound to complain, what should we say? CCP Prat from meeting > Nothing, just let that lovely Hans fellow from that gathering we invited, er, what are they called? CCP Guy > CSM? CCP Prat from meeting > Yeah them, get him to bang on about how good it really is for them.
Frankly, if you think this makes FW similar to Null Sec Sov battles, you have no idea what you are talking about. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
56
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 14:03:00 -
[262] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:I'd like to see the FW game penalize the losing faction(empire) some more without actually hitting those pilots fighting for the losing faction specifically.
For example, if a side loses its territory to represent the fact its losing the war I'd like to see transaction taxes going up in that faction's Hisec (faction high command clawing back some isk from hisec residents to fund the lowsec war).
Imagine just how exciting FW would get if the Caldari faction losing systems led to increased transaction taxes in Jita? Perhaps this could actually lead to the revitalization of other market hubs. Alternatively maybe the Jita bears would be more inclined to privately fund their miliita fighters to improve their transaction taxes.
This could be mapped on top of the new system pretty tidily I think.
Warzone control
1 terrible LP rewards - Emergency Transaction Tax Penalty in Empire Hisec 2 poor LP rewards -Increased Transaction Tax Penalty in Empire Hisec 3 Average LP rewards - Status Quo - Transaction Charges as Now 4 Good LP rewards - War Boon - Transaction Charges Reduced 5 excellent LP rewards - Victory Boon 0 Transaction Charges Reduced Significantly
The real payoff for this would be that the relative attractiveness of the 4 imperial trade hubs (jita, amarr, rens, dodixie) would change over time to reflect the result of faction warfare success and failure and stop being a static no-brainer as now.
One's faction getting hammered in FW will involve hisec players hoping to play the markets and trade their goods and hopefully encourage them to get involved.
Non faction war trade hubs (yulai, ammatar space etc) would have the virtue of stability without the immediate threat of bonus or penalty tariffs.
Consider this a proposal to spread the pain (and benefits) a little more widely and make the systems of Faction Warfare impact the rest of the server far more significantly than even FW 2.0 does.
Everyone in the known universe buys and sells from Jita (on alts if nothing else) - lets have the fortune's of the Jita market tied in some way to the fortunes of Caldari FW (and same for the other empires and hubs).
I like this idea, however the problem with lowering hisec transaction charges, means that Caldari navy will be in the best interests of most people to be winning.
I would propose a five tier plan that only has inflationary taxes while losing, so its in everyone's best interests to not be losing, which is a different thing,
stalemate in terms of war effort is also useful Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1832
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 14:42:00 -
[263] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Celebris Nexterra wrote:T'san Manaan wrote:Changes look good so far can't wait to see it go live. Just some thoughts I would like to see implemented in the future. 1. Missions go to the nearest "Contested" system to keep the mission farmers in the combat zone. 2. Benefits to P.I. and industry (I.E. faster manufacturing) for upgrading systems 3. captured stations use current Sov holder Agents. 4. station lockouts to include anyone with a negative faction standing or outlaw status. Other than that I like everything I see so far especially the no docking for your enemies I want to like this post, but I in no way support making life as a pirate even harder. I agree with station lockouts including those with negative faction status so that it (negative facstat) matters outside of highsec/FW. Also, there's no real reason to include outlaws anyway. It wouldn't matter to pirates b/c w/ the new crimewatch outlaws can buy officer and commander tags and up their standings.
Ahh, but the flip side to this may end up being the ability to set Faction standings to people. I would not be surprised if this Winter we see the ability to elect FW officials from the ranks of FW pilots.
If this happens I would hope they would be able to set standings for the Faction towards people outside of FW, for example that pesky gang of pirates that likes to interfere in your Factions business.
If this is the case I sincerely hope the station lock outs will include people that have been set to red standings by the Faction. This gives a tangible benefit to those people that wish to work with the various Factions without necessarily joining. In fact, if a Pirate group picked on one Faction exclusively they would be given blue (or at least retain neutral) status with the other faction... in essence becoming somethin akin to the classic "Privateer" organization.
That could be taken one step futher, and non FW organizations that manage to get actual blue status from a Faction might be able to receive other benefits from friendly FW stations... thus cementing support. I could easily see the increased production slots, reduced costs benefits, etc. that neutrals will soon enjoy eventually being restricted to those with blue status to a particular Faction in the future.
This would add a whole new dynamic to FW and make it far more relevant to the EVE general population. All it needs to happen is the ability to elect officers with the power to set standings towards others for their Faction. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Droxlyn
TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate
78
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 14:48:00 -
[264] - Quote
The idea of locking people out of stations is interesting. But why not turn it into an ISK sink and charge a docking fee instead? Don't make it a trivial fee either. Something along the lines of Max(Standing * -1000000, 1000000). That way, you can if you need to, but you think a little about doing it often. And it gets ISK out of the economy. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1832
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 14:51:00 -
[265] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Kusum Fawn wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Orisa Medeem wrote:Two comments about the changes: Quote:[Given LP] = ([Market value of target ship] - [Max. Insurance market value] + [Fitted mods, rigs and subsystem market value] + [Transported items market value]) / 10000 Please take dropped items into consideration in that formula. They should either pay half compared to the destroyed ones, or nothing at all. This is important to prevent exploiting it. If you're carrying 100,000,000 ISK in loot, the EV of the drop is 50 mil ISK, and the person killing you gets 10,000 LP from it. If you were trying to abuse it, you'd be hard pressed to make more than 50 mil ISK off of 10k LP. with the ship LP changes, it makes a lot of sense for FW players to keep abnormally high ship costs in the regions that are contested while alt shipping in ships to be put on contracts for either side to purchase. Because it is now in the best interests for both factions to keep market prices high, they will no longer compete for cheap ships for their own militas on the open market. but rather through contracts which are not counted in the LP price index for ships/fittings. Destroying a Punisher with tech 1 fitting: gained LP = (450k ISK GÇô 312k ISK + 100k ISK + 0) / 10000 = around 24 LP (previous system would have paid 25 LP) now fit that punisher with a market manipulated module, Republic Fleet Thermic plating est cost 100k isk, set price on Placid market 100 million isk, In heavy sov upgrades system market cost cheaper, it currently costs me (a nonFW player but with good regional faction standings) approx 1 million to place module on the market, with no buy orders or competing modules market price is now 100 million for a cheap module. Destroying a punisher with tech 1 fitting:gained LP =(450k isk - 312k isk + 100 million isk +0)/1000 = 100,138 LP (overheat a lowslot mod for a few seconds to encourage the item being destroyed) Punisher has 4 lowslots, add four of those modules. now make that module worth one billion, or ten billion .... I would hope that CCP is smart enough to
- Make the used prices be a global average
- Use Sell orders, not Buy orders to price them
- Make it delayed by an unspecified amount of time
- Average price changes on a smoothed running aveage curve
If they didn't, then yeah, this is going to turn out into a horrible, horrible gaming of the system.
They will be using the price averaging mechanic they will introduce at the same time, which takes a global average of the price over the last two weeks. If something is only available via contracts it looks at the components neccessary to build that item to derive it's value. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
56
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Posted - 2012.05.10 14:55:00 -
[266] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:
They will be using the price averaging mechanic they will introduce at the same time, which takes a global average of the price over the last two weeks. If something is only available via contracts it looks at the components neccessary to build that item to derive it's value.
if it only takes two weeks to form the market average, then have i got some deals and plans for you FW people Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time. |
Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
645
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Posted - 2012.05.10 15:02:00 -
[267] - Quote
Seeing as people are posting in caps about how there will be consequences of failure/actions and lesser passive income but more rewards for actual work I think we are heading the fight way folks!
BTW:
Neo Gabriel wrote:HERE COMES INFERO, HERALDING A NEW AGE OF LOWSEC PIRACY While I don't agree with the above characters post of ranting and madness I do like his idea of an *endgame*.
And this just sounds nice:
Jade Constantine wrote:I'd like to see the FW game penalize the losing faction(empire) some more without actually hitting those pilots fighting for the losing faction specifically.
For example, if a side loses its territory to represent the fact its losing the war I'd like to see transaction taxes going up in that faction's Hisec (faction high command clawing back some isk from hisec residents to fund the lowsec war).
Imagine just how exciting FW would get if the Caldari faction losing systems led to increased transaction taxes in Jita? Perhaps this could actually lead to the revitalization of other market hubs. Alternatively maybe the Jita bears would be more inclined to privately fund their miliita fighters to improve their transaction taxes.
This could be mapped on top of the new system pretty tidily I think.
Warzone control
1 terrible LP rewards - Emergency Transaction Tax Penalty in Empire Hisec 2 poor LP rewards -Increased Transaction Tax Penalty in Empire Hisec 3 Average LP rewards - Status Quo - Transaction Charges as Now 4 Good LP rewards - War Boon - Transaction Charges Reduced 5 excellent LP rewards - Victory Boon 0 Transaction Charges Reduced Significantly
The real payoff for this would be that the relative attractiveness of the 4 imperial trade hubs (jita, amarr, rens, dodixie) would change over time to reflect the result of faction warfare success and failure and stop being a static no-brainer as now.
One's faction getting hammered in FW will involve hisec players hoping to play the markets and trade their goods and hopefully encourage them to get involved.
Non faction war trade hubs (yulai, ammatar space etc) would have the virtue of stability without the immediate threat of bonus or penalty tariffs.
Consider this a proposal to spread the pain (and benefits) a little more widely and make the systems of Faction Warfare impact the rest of the server far more significantly than even FW 2.0 does.
Everyone in the known universe buys and sells from Jita (on alts if nothing else) - lets have the fortune's of the Jita market tied in some way to the fortunes of Caldari FW (and same for the other empires and hubs).
- [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |
Sarinat Talen
Celestial Arms Manufacturing and Operations New Eden Research.
7
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Posted - 2012.05.10 15:16:00 -
[268] - Quote
The major problem with datacores is not getting rid of the passive income (which is overstated), it is putting them in FW instead of adding them to R&D corp LP stores, where the people who have been running missions for these corps already to get them can. This is purely a move to cross populate areas of the game to make CCPs failed mechanic of FW work, instead of simply fixing FW and letting people try it. They are smacking R&D players in the face by devaluing all their work, as opposed to rewarding them for it. All the people celebrating will get their turn soon enough when the area of the game they have put work into gets the rug pulled from under it. This is poor game design and a punishment to players for CCPs mistakes.
The old CCP is still here. Don't be fooled. |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
864
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Posted - 2012.05.10 15:16:00 -
[269] - Quote
The changes are (at best) meaningless without NPC rebalancing.
If you make plexing a source of income and have it so that one faction's plexes easier to capture than their opponent's, you have a recipe for disaster. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
Mikal Morataya
31
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Posted - 2012.05.10 15:19:00 -
[270] - Quote
Look like I might take a look at some point in FW. The changes look interesting.
The datacore thing seems odd, if CCP don't want passive income from it can we get our SP in R&D back please to invest somewhere else, like more PvP related skills for FW. |
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