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Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.13 15:39:00 -
[1]
It's in the patch notes. Peeps is ****ed now. This is a bad change. --
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Reven Cordelle
Caldari Yamainu-Mirai Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.13 15:41:00 -
[2]
Care to elaborate?
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Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.13 15:42:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Marcus Druallis on 13/05/2009 15:42:44 Cloak immediate shuts off MWD and anything else that would have an effect on attributes when activated.
EDIT: Such ships as Recons, covops, blockade runners are going to get hurt big time. I love how CCP just blindly nerfs everything. --
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2009.05.13 15:43:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Reven Cordelle Care to elaborate?
He's referring to the fact that your MWD now deactivates immediately when you cloak. This means ships can no longer reapproach the gate, hit the MWD and then hit their cloak for a few kilometers of safe coasting. I don't think it's a massive deal, but some covert ops pilots and blockade runners that used it a lot might not like it too much.
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flashfreaking
LFC Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.05.13 15:43:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Marcus Druallis Edited by: Marcus Druallis on 13/05/2009 15:42:44 Cloak immediate shuts off MWD and anything else that would have an effect on attributes when activated.
EDIT: Such ships as Recons, covops, blockade runners are going to get hurt big time. I love how CCP just blindly nerfs everything.
This is indeed pretty bad
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Jana Clant
New Dawn Tribe New Eden Research
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Posted - 2009.05.13 15:43:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Jana Clant on 13/05/2009 15:43:44 Nevermind, beaten to it.
New Eden Research, where your research gets done!
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Reven Cordelle
Caldari Yamainu-Mirai Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.13 15:44:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Reven Cordelle on 13/05/2009 15:44:47
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Reven Cordelle Care to elaborate?
He's referring to the fact that your MWD now deactivates immediately when you cloak. This means ships can no longer reapproach the gate, hit the MWD and then hit their cloak for a few kilometers of safe coasting. I don't think it's a massive deal, but some covert ops pilots and blockade runners that used it a lot might not like it too much.
Oh Snap.
Using that - in another thread the OP asked what the next major whine would be.
Now that Scam Contracts have been nerfed a little, I vote that this here will be the next big whine.
You saw it here first, people.
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Estel Arador
Minmatar Estel Arador Corp Services
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Posted - 2009.05.13 15:47:00 -
[8]
Isn't there like a thread dedicated to discussing patch notes? And like another threadnaught dedicated to discussing this issue on the Game Development forum? Does it need another thread?
FREE! jumpclone service - over 200 locations! |
TheEndofTheWorld
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.05.13 16:12:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Reven Cordelle Care to elaborate?
He's referring to the fact that your MWD now deactivates immediately when you cloak. This means ships can no longer reapproach the gate, hit the MWD and then hit their cloak for a few kilometers of safe coasting. I don't think it's a massive deal, but some covert ops pilots and blockade runners that used it a lot might not like it too much.
Not a massive deal...
Yeah, right, you mean that entire ship classes losing the one thing that makes them good and special. If this change goes live, all Falcons, Rapiers, Pilgrims, Arazus a will be reduced to 1. Cynoships or 2. Low sec belt piracy(lol?). Seriously, what is the point of Covert Ops cloak (ships) if you cannot do anything vs bubbles.
Massive nerf to scouting, massive nerf for small gangs, massive boost for alliances defending against those small gangs.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.05.13 16:15:00 -
[10]
Two words, albeit blunt; ****ing Stupid. ______________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.05.13 16:20:00 -
[11]
Well look at it this way... what's the alternative to cloaky scouts?
That's right. A second account
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Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.13 16:25:00 -
[12]
Since when did ****in' bubble camping need a boost lol. --
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2009.05.13 16:27:00 -
[13]
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld Not a massive deal...
Yeah, right, you mean that entire ship classes losing the one thing that makes them good and special. If this change goes live, all Falcons, Rapiers, Pilgrims, Arazus a will be reduced to 1. Cynoships or 2. Low sec belt piracy(lol?). Seriously, what is the point of Covert Ops cloak (ships) if you cannot do anything vs bubbles.
Come now, it's not the only thing that makes them good or special. I usually survive bubbles fine in covert ops ships and I never use the cloak trick. I just wait 25 seconds after jumping and then mwd all the way back to the gate and jump immediately. The only things that have killed me in those scenarios are massive camps with some very fast tacklers and camps with an instalocking huginn/lachesis. Even then lag can delay them long enough to let you build up enough inertia to coast the rest of the distance before being destroyed.
We'll see how much of a problem it is when it's released but I highly doubt this is going to significantly impair recon ships, blockade runners or covert ops scouts.
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FlyinS
Caldari Planetary Industry and Trade Organization
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Posted - 2009.05.13 16:34:00 -
[14]
Where are these patch notes? I looked through Dev forum but maybe I'm just blind?
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Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.13 16:39:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Nyphur Edited by: Nyphur on 13/05/2009 16:28:24
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld Not a massive deal...
Yeah, right, you mean that entire ship classes losing the one thing that makes them good and special. If this change goes live, all Falcons, Rapiers, Pilgrims, Arazus a will be reduced to 1. Cynoships or 2. Low sec belt piracy(lol?). Seriously, what is the point of Covert Ops cloak (ships) if you cannot do anything vs bubbles.
Come now, it's not the only thing that makes them good or special. I usually survive bubbles fine in covert ops ships and I never use the cloak trick. I just wait 25 seconds after jumping and then mwd all the way back to the gate and jump immediately. The only things that have killed me in those scenarios are massive camps with some very fast tacklers and camps with an instalocking huginn/lachesis. Even then lag can delay them long enough to let you build up enough inertia to coast the rest of the distance before being destroyed.
We'll see how much of a problem it is when it's released but I highly doubt this is an apocalypse for recon ships, blockade runners or covert ops scouts.
I'm sorry, but you've run into some ****e camps if you were able to survive without cloaking up. I've been popped in a 'ranis before I could reach the gate before. --
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TheEndofTheWorld
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.05.13 16:45:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Nyphur Edited by: Nyphur on 13/05/2009 16:28:24
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld Not a massive deal...
Yeah, right, you mean that entire ship classes losing the one thing that makes them good and special. If this change goes live, all Falcons, Rapiers, Pilgrims, Arazus a will be reduced to 1. Cynoships or 2. Low sec belt piracy(lol?). Seriously, what is the point of Covert Ops cloak (ships) if you cannot do anything vs bubbles.
Come now, it's not the only thing that makes them good or special. I usually survive bubbles fine in covert ops ships and I never use the cloak trick. I just wait 25 seconds after jumping and then mwd all the way back to the gate and jump immediately. The only things that have killed me in those scenarios are massive camps with some very fast tacklers and camps with an instalocking huginn/lachesis. Even then lag can delay them long enough to let you build up enough inertia to coast the rest of the distance before being destroyed.
We'll see how much of a problem it is when it's released but I highly doubt this is an apocalypse for recon ships, blockade runners or covert ops scouts.
Fine, Cheetah might survive it, but only against fail gangs who do not know that you need to bubble both sides of the gate once the scout jumps in. As for Cloak Recons with mwd as it is now, it is already fairly close, without mwd it is just pointless, you will die vs anyone with a sabre. Please tell me, what magical properties do covert ops ships have beyond their cloaks.
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Raia Mortius
Yin Bao
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Posted - 2009.05.13 16:56:00 -
[17]
the thing is though .. you are a covert ship. you want to gather intel. you want to go forward, not run back to the gate like you are a hac or inty ...
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2009.05.13 16:57:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Nyphur on 13/05/2009 16:58:43 Fair do's, I can see how a well set up camp like that in 0.0 could kill a covert ops pilot. If it turns out to be a problem, perhaps the covert ops cloak and MWD configuration should be a special case exemption. I'll reserve absolute judgement until I see it on TQ.
Originally by: Raia Mortius the thing is though .. you are a covert ship. you want to gather intel. you want to go forward, not run back to the gate like you are a hac or inty ...
This affects going forward too. MWDing out of a bubble after jumping into it and before being scrambled isn't really possible. MWDing out of the bubble and hitting the cloak was useful, and that's apparantly being restricted.
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Jalif
Minmatar Black Sinisters
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Posted - 2009.05.13 16:58:00 -
[19]
btw, since most don't know this either:
you are not able to activate your MWD for 3 seconds after you decloaked.
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Jenai'na
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Posted - 2009.05.13 16:59:00 -
[20]
i see it this way..
they tried to fix the ecm jam and recloak trick (why though???) and killed mwd + cloak of in the process. unfortunately they have commited to the change before they realised. so .. yea .. it ll come tomorrow i suppose.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2009.05.13 16:59:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Jalif btw, since most don't know this either:
you are not able to activate your MWD for 3 seconds after you decloaked.
Does this count for gate cloaking? Because if it does that's pretty horrible.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.05.13 16:59:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Jalif btw, since most don't know this either:
you are not able to activate your MWD for 3 seconds after you decloaked.
OH JUST ******* AWESOME. ______________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
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Raia Mortius
Yin Bao
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Posted - 2009.05.13 17:01:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Nyphur Edited by: Nyphur on 13/05/2009 16:58:43 Fair do's, I can see how a well set up camp like that in 0.0 could kill a covert ops pilot. If it turns out to be a problem, perhaps the covert ops cloak and MWD configuration should be a special case exemption. I'll reserve absolute judgement until I see it on TQ.
Originally by: Raia Mortius the thing is though .. you are a covert ship. you want to gather intel. you want to go forward, not run back to the gate like you are a hac or inty ...
This affects going forward too. MWDing out of a bubble after jumping into it and before being scrambled isn't really possible. MWDing out of the bubble and hitting the cloak was useful, and that's apparantly being restricted.
thats what i mean. we covert people are boned. i was merely pointing out to the dude who suggested to run back to the gate that this is not why were are jumping in in the first place. we want to gather intel and scout for our buddies and burning back to the gate doesnt help us. apart from the fact that every semi inteligent second dictor will jump with us and repeat the game on the other side.
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Jalif
Minmatar Black Sinisters
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Posted - 2009.05.13 17:03:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Jalif on 13/05/2009 17:03:29
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Jalif btw, since most don't know this either:
you are not able to activate your MWD for 3 seconds after you decloaked.
Does this count for gate cloaking? Because if it does that's pretty horrible.
Yeap, forget about burning back. If you jump into a 0.0 camp. Get a mirror and kiss your ass goodbye properly.
For lowsec, anything cruiser sized or higher will die too.
+ Agility will be slower to add more to the flavour.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.05.13 17:07:00 -
[25]
In one patch, CCP Single handedly kills the only ways to survive a gatecamp as a small gang, or even as a covops/recon/blockade runner pilot. ______________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2009.05.13 17:11:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jalif
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Jalif btw, since most don't know this either: you are not able to activate your MWD for 3 seconds after you decloaked.
Does this count for gate cloaking? Because if it does that's pretty horrible.
Yeap, forget about burning back. If you jump into a 0.0 camp. Get a mirror and kiss your ass goodbye properly.
Oh you are kidding me... If that's true, it's one of the very few design decisions I've heard of over the years that has genuinely baffled me. One of those changes that makes you think the dev responsible for it should try playing this awesome space ship game he's probably never heard of called EVE Online.
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21 Salvager
Minmatar We are Live
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Posted - 2009.05.13 17:15:00 -
[27]
Originally by: FlyinS Where are these patch notes? I looked through Dev forum but maybe I'm just blind?
Test Patch Notes (when available) are: EVE Download->EVE Patches->Singularity (Test)->Windows OS->(view patch notes) link near bottom. Here's the resulting link: http://www.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp ----- I'm a collector! Want to trade? See my Collection List and contact me. |
Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente The Crane Family
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Posted - 2009.05.13 17:24:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Jalif
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Jalif btw, since most don't know this either: you are not able to activate your MWD for 3 seconds after you decloaked.
Does this count for gate cloaking? Because if it does that's pretty horrible.
Yeap, forget about burning back. If you jump into a 0.0 camp. Get a mirror and kiss your ass goodbye properly.
Oh you are kidding me... If that's true, it's one of the very few design decisions I've heard of over the years that has genuinely baffled me. One of those changes that makes you think the dev responsible for it should try playing this awesome space ship game he's probably never heard of called EVE Online.
Makes you wonder indeed.
This change basically invalidates recons and cloakers in general for getting intel on gatecamps. Without the MWD, any decent gatecamp will decloak you (with drones out for example) and shoot you without you having a reasonable chance to get away. Without the MWD it can take up to 30 seconds and usually more to either get out of the bubble or get back to the gate. With the paper tank on most dedicated scouts and recons, you won't last that long by a long shot. You might as well use a shuttle to scout, because you're going to die anyway ...
Clearly not very thought through (bit of an understatement here).
I thought this game was trying to move away from blob warfare ... -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2009.05.13 17:29:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane
Makes you wonder indeed.
This change basically invalidates recons and cloakers in general for getting intel on gatecamps.
That's not the issue I'm so shocked at. If you can't mwd for 3 seconds after decloaking after jumping, that makes camps infinitely more powerful as they can bet a web and short range scram on any ship before it gains any significant momentum. It removes hitting the return gate as an option for ALL ships, not just recons or covert ops.
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.05.13 17:30:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Jalif btw, since most don't know this either:
you are not able to activate your MWD for 3 seconds after you decloaked.
Does this count for gate cloaking? Because if it does that's pretty horrible.
Yes, this is actually the worst part of the whole cloak/MWD nerf. ...
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