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Benco97
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.05.13 17:31:00 -
[31]
The fact that all effects will end as soon as you cloak comes as no big surprise to me, surely you can't say you've not been expecting it?
The 3 second MWD activation does though, seems odd.
Originally by: P'uck
You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.05.13 17:31:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane
Makes you wonder indeed.
This change basically invalidates recons and cloakers in general for getting intel on gatecamps.
That's not the issue I'm so shocked at. If you can't mwd for 3 seconds after decloaking after jumping, that makes camps infinitely more powerful as they can bet a web and short range scram on any ship before it gains any significant momentum. It removes hitting the return gate as an option for ALL ships, not just recons or covert ops.
Seems we need a "Cloakers '09, Fight for your Right to Veto Stupid Design Decisions" Sig Again. ______________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.05.13 17:35:00 -
[33]
Yeah… I'm going to have to side with the "wtf idiotic change!1?! " side here, even though I can't survive a camp for the life of me — cloak or not. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Benco97
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.05.13 17:37:00 -
[34]
There's no need to get all worked up about it, let it hit the test server, check it out, report your findings. Until then there's no use getting flustered and having a bad time.
Originally by: P'uck
You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.05.13 17:38:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Benco97 There's no need to get all worked up about it, let it hit the test server, check it out, report your findings. Until then there's no use getting flustered and having a bad time.
It's apparently going to TQ tomorrow. ...
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2009.05.13 17:40:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Benco97 There's no need to get all worked up about it, let it hit the test server, check it out, report your findings. Until then there's no use getting flustered and having a bad time.
I was under the impression that it's already on the test server and the patch is tomorrow. Although it's not in the patch notes, that's not always a good indicator of if it made it into the patch.
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Benco97
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.05.13 17:41:00 -
[37]
Ahh, well then I retract my statement and issue a formal apology. Feel free to scream.
Originally by: P'uck
You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2009.05.13 17:42:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Benco97 Ahh, well then I retract my statement and issue a formal apology. Feel free to scream.
Aieeeeeee!
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.05.13 17:42:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Benco97 Ahh, well then I retract my statement and issue a formal apology. Feel free to scream.
Aieeeeeee!
YARGLEBLARGLEDARGLEDINGLEDONGLEBLARGH! ______________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.05.13 17:42:00 -
[40]
Guys, use your heads. There's way too many people out in 0.0, this will fix that.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
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Carnelian X
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Posted - 2009.05.13 17:43:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Carnelian X on 13/05/2009 17:43:59 on the test server (tested 2 days ago) MWD-CLOAK-WARP was in fact easier to initiate.
Takes 3 seconds instead of 10 NOT htat you cant cloak for three seconds
Like i say this was 2 days ago so best advice is to wait and see
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.05.13 17:44:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Benco97 There's no need to get all worked up about it, let it hit the test server, check it out, report your findings. Until then there's no use getting flustered and having a bad time.
I was under the impression that it's already on the test server and the patch is tomorrow. Although it's not in the patch notes, that's not always a good indicator of if it made it into the patch.
Patchnotes for tomorrow say:- If a ship cloaks, all active modules that modify attributes, such as ECM, will stop immediately and the icons showing the effect will disappear.
MWD is certainly an active module that modify attributes, and as for the test server, that's where the reports of the effects have been coming from for a while… ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente The Crane Family
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Posted - 2009.05.13 17:46:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane
Makes you wonder indeed.
This change basically invalidates recons and cloakers in general for getting intel on gatecamps.
That's not the issue I'm so shocked at. If you can't mwd for 3 seconds after decloaking after jumping, that makes camps infinitely more powerful as they can bet a web and short range scram on any ship before it gains any significant momentum. It removes hitting the return gate as an option for ALL ships, not just recons or covert ops.
No, the fact that the MWD bled into your cloak time was the one reason why covert ops ships were able to have a realistic chance of getting back out of a bubble. Without that, even a covert ops ship won't make it out. All ships shouldn't have the option of getting out of a good gatecamp.
The 3 second delay timer is just the icing on the cake that makes it worse! -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2009.05.13 17:46:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Benco97 There's no need to get all worked up about it, let it hit the test server, check it out, report your findings. Until then there's no use getting flustered and having a bad time.
I was under the impression that it's already on the test server and the patch is tomorrow. Although it's not in the patch notes, that's not always a good indicator of if it made it into the patch.
Patchnotes for tomorrow say:- If a ship cloaks, all active modules that modify attributes, such as ECM, will stop immediately and the icons showing the effect will disappear.
MWD is certainly an active module that modify attributes, and as for the test server, that's where the reports of the effects have been coming from for a whileā
Again, read the previous posts. The big deal is the 3-second delay after decloaking before an MWD can be activated. It kills hitting the return gate for ALL ships.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.05.13 17:50:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Carnelian X on the test server (tested 2 days ago) MWD-CLOAK-WARP was in fact easier to initiate.
Takes 3 seconds instead of 10 NOT htat you cant cloak for three seconds
Like i say this was 2 days ago so best advice is to wait and see
Yes, that only shows that it is actually working as advertised — instead of waiting for the full MWD cycle to complete, you cut the MWD off immediately upon cloaking, at which point you're probably already at the (unmodified) warp speed threshold and you're off…
Now try doing the same while bubbled and see if you manage to warp after 3s… ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.05.13 17:50:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Carnelian X Edited by: Carnelian X on 13/05/2009 17:43:59 on the test server (tested 2 days ago) MWD-CLOAK-WARP was in fact easier to initiate.
Takes 3 seconds instead of 10 NOT htat you cant cloak for three seconds
Like i say this was 2 days ago so best advice is to wait and see
THis is not about MWD-CLOAK-WARP, but MWD right after gate cloak, initiate self cloak, glide back to gate. Now, you have to move, wait three seconds, initiate MWD then Cloak, Be at max speed, MWD turns off and you IMMEDIATELY start losing speed. You get half the cruising time (instead of both accel + decel time).
Result? You're a freakin sittin duck for three seconds which immediately means your rough position is now given away alot more reliably than usual. You wont get as far "cruising" so it'll be easier to predict how far you got.
And i'm sure you cans ee where this is going. ______________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
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Anvalor
Gallente Germania Inc. D0GMA
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Posted - 2009.05.13 17:52:00 -
[47]
Am i the first one who likes this changes ? Now people can not just mwd back to the gate anymore so easy and have to think where they go. Same about recons and cloaking to get out of the bubble. I fly recons alot, so i have to adapt too.
In my opinion it was wrong anyway that you were able to have a module like the mwd running while you are cloaked. CCP just need to sort stuff like that out faster so people do not get used to it so easy and stop whining ( people not whining, what am i thinking here ).
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.05.13 17:55:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Anvalor Am i the first one who likes this changes ? Now people can not just mwd back to the gate anymore so easy and have to think where they go.
Do i burn back to gate, get trapped and die, or Burn to the edge of the bubble, get trapped and die.
Tough choice. ______________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2009.05.13 17:58:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Nyphur on 13/05/2009 17:58:56
Originally by: Anvalor Am i the first one who likes this changes ? Now people can not just mwd back to the gate anymore so easy and have to think where they go. Same about recons and cloaking to get out of the bubble. I fly recons alot, so i have to adapt too.
In my opinion it was wrong anyway that you were able to have a module like the mwd running while you are cloaked. CCP just need to sort stuff like that out faster so people do not get used to it so easy and stop whining ( people not whining, what am i thinking here ).
Consider the current state of affairs against what will come to pass if hitting the return gate is no longer an option. The current state of affairs is that small gangs and solo players can often fly without a scout and have a chance of survival if they jump into a camp. Covert ops ships make great scouts because they can go ahead and will be fine no matter what they encounter. After the patch, that small gang has a much lower chance of survival and covert ops ships are far less cost-effective than an alt in a shuttle. Disposable shuttle alts could end up being the new scouts. EDIT: And this isn't even about bubbles. This will be the state of affairs everywhere if burning back to the gate is no longer viable.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.05.13 17:59:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Anvalor I fly recons alot, so i have to adapt too.
Yes, for instance by not flying recons any more.
"Hey guys, we need to see what's on the other side of this gate." "Sure, I'll jump in my recon ship and do some… you know… recon!" "Don't be silly. We do it the safe way and jump through 50 battleships. You go skulk around that moon over there in the meantime." ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Anvalor
Gallente Germania Inc. D0GMA
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:02:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Anvalor on 13/05/2009 18:03:41 I know that and i am not flying with big gangs. I fly with small gangs mostly or solo. Maybe the cov op ship will get cheaper when less people use them. I would like that. And many people were complaining how CCP are making eve to easy. Now here they get something they wanted at least hehe.
And Tippia if thats your way of adaption thats ok. I will still use them.
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Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente The Crane Family
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:03:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Anvalor Am i the first one who likes this changes ? Now people can not just mwd back to the gate anymore so easy and have to think where they go. Same about recons and cloaking to get out of the bubble. I fly recons alot, so i have to adapt too.
In my opinion it was wrong anyway that you were able to have a module like the mwd running while you are cloaked. CCP just need to sort stuff like that out faster so people do not get used to it so easy and stop whining ( people not whining, what am i thinking here ).
Thank you, you know nothing. There is nowhere to go when you land in a bubble. You can't slowboat yourself out of a bubble, because you'll be decloaked. And when you're decloaked you have practically no speed left, and it'll takes ages to get into warp. And, because you've just sat there, ambling around for 3 seconds, the gatecampers know exactly where you were, and where you'll be. Forget it, with the 3 second delay, no MWD bleed through into cloak, you're a sitting duck in a ship with a paper tank. So sod off with your adapt mantra, you're going to die, and die often, and die horribly. It's stupid change, and if you can't see that, you know nothing about getting out of bubbles in a recon. So please, with sugar on top, GTFO with your adapt b****cks ...
It was hard enough with bubbles on both sides of the gate, now it's just reconnaissance-by-death. -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Prof Abronsius
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:06:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Prof Abronsius on 13/05/2009 18:06:46
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane
Originally by: Anvalor Am i the first one who likes this changes ? Now people can not just mwd back to the gate anymore so easy and have to think where they go. Same about recons and cloaking to get out of the bubble. I fly recons alot, so i have to adapt too.
In my opinion it was wrong anyway that you were able to have a module like the mwd running while you are cloaked. CCP just need to sort stuff like that out faster so people do not get used to it so easy and stop whining ( people not whining, what am i thinking here ).
Thank you, you know nothing. There is nowhere to go when you land in a bubble. You can't slowboat yourself out of a bubble, because you'll be decloaked. And when you're decloaked you have practically no speed left, and it'll takes ages to get into warp. And, because you've just sat there, ambling around for 3 seconds, the gatecampers know exactly where you were, and where you'll be. Forget it, with the 3 second delay, no MWD bleed through into cloak, you're a sitting duck in a ship with a paper tank. So sod off with your adapt mantra, you're going to die, and die often, and die horribly. It's stupid change, and if you can't see that, you know nothing about getting out of bubbles in a recon. So please, with sugar on top, GTFO with your adapt b****cks ...
It was hard enough with bubbles on both sides of the gate, now it's just reconnaissance-by-death.
Why do you explain everything again. Other did that allready so i know what i want and i like these changes because i do not only look at as the guy who wants to get through a camp but also from the guys pow who want to catch recons. This is just my opinion and i do not force you to have the same one.
Sorry that is my alt. Should have been Anvalor.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:09:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Anvalor Edited by: Anvalor on 13/05/2009 18:03:41 I know that and i am not flying with big gangs. I fly with small gangs mostly or solo. Maybe the cov op ship will get cheaper when less people use them.
And less people will invent them so the price stays the same, or even gets more expensive. ______________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
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Anvalor
Gallente Germania Inc. D0GMA
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:11:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: Anvalor Edited by: Anvalor on 13/05/2009 18:03:41 I know that and i am not flying with big gangs. I fly with small gangs mostly or solo. Maybe the cov op ship will get cheaper when less people use them.
And less people will invent them so the price stays the same, or even gets more expensive.
That wil also be good. So i can start inventing them even if it is worth it.
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Anubis Xian
Reavers
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:12:00 -
[56]
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Reven Cordelle Care to elaborate?
He's referring to the fact that your MWD now deactivates immediately when you cloak. This means ships can no longer reapproach the gate, hit the MWD and then hit their cloak for a few kilometers of safe coasting. I don't think it's a massive deal, but some covert ops pilots and blockade runners that used it a lot might not like it too much.
Not a massive deal...
Yeah, right, you mean that entire ship classes losing the one thing that makes them good and special. If this change goes live, all Falcons, Rapiers, Pilgrims, Arazus a will be reduced to 1. Cynoships or 2. Low sec belt piracy(lol?). Seriously, what is the point of Covert Ops cloak (ships) if you cannot do anything vs bubbles.
Massive nerf to scouting, massive nerf for small gangs, massive boost for alliances defending against those small gangs.
So, you can't figure out a creative way to get your covert ops cloaked ship through a bubblecamp?
Do you even have Int implants?
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:15:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Anubis Xian So, you can't figure out a creative way to get your covert ops cloaked ship through a bubblecamp?
Do you even have Int implants?
Creative? Please tell me a "creative" way that does not require blowing out the "Covert" part of "Covert Ops" ______________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
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Jalif
Minmatar Black Sinisters
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:16:00 -
[58]
hearing from others that the 3sec mwd delay isn't there anymore :/ - **** it - just going to wait until patch hits...
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Anubis Xian
Reavers
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:17:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: Anubis Xian So, you can't figure out a creative way to get your covert ops cloaked ship through a bubblecamp?
Do you even have Int implants?
Creative? Please tell me a "creative" way that does not require blowing out the "Covert" part of "Covert Ops"
You could maybe...cloak and then fly out of it?
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:19:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Nyphur on 13/05/2009 18:22:02
Originally by: Prof Abronsius Why do you explain everything again. Other did that allready so i know what i want and i like these changes because i do not only look at as the guy who wants to get through a camp but also from the guys pow who want to catch recons. This is just my opinion and i do not force you to have the same one.
Sorry that is my alt. Should have been Anvalor.
I look at this from both perspectives, and I most certainly don't like the change. The reason is that it gives too much power to those camping a gate over those jumping through the gate. It means small gangs of small ships will be best off waiting on a gate for the enemy to jump in, leading to the same kinds of standoffs you see with big fleets. Small gangs can currently roam relatively freely, relying on the fact they can do a U-turn if they bump into a camp and most of them will survive the procedure. This forces the use of a scout but at the same time nerfs the ability of a scout in 0.0. It's certainly not ideal.
Originally by: Anubis Xian You could maybe...cloak and then fly out of it?
Any camp worth its salt will be able to decloak you. Without the mwd pulse before cloaking, you don't drift very far and are much more easily decloaked.
Originally by: Jalif hearing from others that the 3sec mwd delay isn't there anymore :/ - **** it - just going to wait until patch hits...
Hm, same here then. I'll wait and see if it hits TQ.
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