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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:20:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Magic Dragonrider Tao Ball The lamentations of brigands cause my chalice to overflow. One must assess new situation. Adapt or die.
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Annonymous, trading as "Weight What". |
Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente The Crane Family
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:20:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Bartholomeus Crane on 13/05/2009 18:20:45
Originally by: Prof Abronsius Why do you explain everything again. Other did that allready so i know what i want and i like these changes because i do not only look at as the guy who wants to get through a camp but also from the guys pow who want to catch recons. This is just my opinion and i do not force you to have the same one.
Sorry that is my alt. Should have been Anvalor.
Yes, I'm very sorry for trying to point out to you that your opinion was utterly stupid and lacking any reason what-so-ever. Coming from a guy who thinks that ships get cheaper when you take away a large part of their raison d'Otre, I should have recognised you for the lost cause that you are. But thank you for your opinion, hoping fervently that you'll go away now, so that we can ignore you more successfully.
Good troll though, you play the village idiot to a tee ... -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:21:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Anubis Xian You could maybe...cloak and then fly out of it?
…at a few hundred m/s and fairly easily get decloaked by anyone competent? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:27:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Anubis Xian You could maybe...cloak and then fly out of it?
Yes, cause every bubble camp will be guarded by 6 month old n00bs in drakes.
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Anubis Xian
Reavers
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:36:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Anubis Xian You could maybe...cloak and then fly out of it?
āat a few hundred m/s and fairly easily get decloaked by anyone competent?
They can only decloak you if they get close enough. And what stops you from just mwding without the cloak? Surely your cov ops equipped ship isnt plated?
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Originally by: Anubis Xian You could maybe...cloak and then fly out of it?
Yes, cause every bubble camp will be guarded by 6 month old n00bs in drakes.
Why do you jump through a gate with the expectation you should survive the camp on the other side?
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:37:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Nyphur on 13/05/2009 18:43:46
Originally by: Anubis Xian Why do you jump through a gate with the expectation you should survive the camp on the other side?
Because you're the scout in a covert ops ship designed specifically for that task?
Originally by: Anubis Xian And what stops you from just mwding without the cloak? Surely your cov ops equipped ship isnt plated?
We've been discussing that for most of this thread - you can't MWD for 3 seconds after decloaking post-jump. Even if that doesn't make it to TQ, it means you absolutely have to turn around and hit the return gate rather than getting out of the bubble and then warping somewhere in the system. And don't think you'll survive the trip out of a bubble without a cloak active, any camp with a bubble will have a ship fast enough to keep you scrambled no matter how fast you're going in a covops ship.
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Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:38:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Anubis Xian
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: Anubis Xian So, you can't figure out a creative way to get your covert ops cloaked ship through a bubblecamp?
Do you even have Int implants?
Creative? Please tell me a "creative" way that does not require blowing out the "Covert" part of "Covert Ops"
You could maybe...cloak and then fly out of it?
Do you play this ****ing game? --
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Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:40:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Anubis Xian
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Anubis Xian You could maybe...cloak and then fly out of it?
āat a few hundred m/s and fairly easily get decloaked by anyone competent?
They can only decloak you if they get close enough. And what stops you from just mwding without the cloak? Surely your cov ops equipped ship isnt plated?
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Originally by: Anubis Xian You could maybe...cloak and then fly out of it?
Yes, cause every bubble camp will be guarded by 6 month old n00bs in drakes.
Why do you jump through a gate with the expectation you should survive the camp on the other side?
Because interceptors are faster than your ******ed covops? --
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Anvalor
Gallente Germania Inc. D0GMA
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:40:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane Edited by: Bartholomeus Crane on 13/05/2009 18:20:45
Originally by: Prof Abronsius Why do you explain everything again. Other did that allready so i know what i want and i like these changes because i do not only look at as the guy who wants to get through a camp but also from the guys pow who want to catch recons. This is just my opinion and i do not force you to have the same one.
Sorry that is my alt. Should have been Anvalor.
Yes, I'm very sorry for trying to point out to you that your opinion was utterly stupid and lacking any reason what-so-ever. Coming from a guy who thinks that ships get cheaper when you take away a large part of their raison d'Otre, I should have recognised you for the lost cause that you are. But thank you for your opinion, hoping fervently that you'll go away now, so that we can ignore you more successfully.
Good troll though, you play the village idiot to a tee ...
I do not argue about opinions, because they are like *******s and everyone has one. I am just saying that i like these changes and it will make it more difficult for me also. But go on and insult me if that makes your anger vanish.
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Anubis Xian
Reavers
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:42:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Marcus Druallis
Originally by: Anubis Xian
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Anubis Xian You could maybe...cloak and then fly out of it?
āat a few hundred m/s and fairly easily get decloaked by anyone competent?
They can only decloak you if they get close enough. And what stops you from just mwding without the cloak? Surely your cov ops equipped ship isnt plated?
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Originally by: Anubis Xian You could maybe...cloak and then fly out of it?
Yes, cause every bubble camp will be guarded by 6 month old n00bs in drakes.
Why do you jump through a gate with the expectation you should survive the camp on the other side?
Because interceptors are faster than your ******ed covops?
Oh I'm so sorry to hear that. No really, I am.
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:44:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Anubis Xian They can only decloak you if they get close enough. And what stops you from just mwding without the cloak? Surely your cov ops equipped ship isnt plated?
Since you apparently haven't been paying attention: the three-second delay after the gate cloak (in addition to the fact that inties will quite happily hunt you down and ruin your day). ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Feilamya
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:45:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Anubis Xian Why do you jump through a gate with the expectation you should survive the camp on the other side?
Because you're the scout in a covert ops ship designed specifically for that task?
After this patch, suicide alts in noobships will be the new scouts.
Expect a lot of whineage about how this "tactic" is unfair metagaming and laugh about how CCP will never be able to nerf it.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:46:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Feilamya
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Anubis Xian Why do you jump through a gate with the expectation you should survive the camp on the other side?
Because you're the scout in a covert ops ship designed specifically for that task?
After this patch, suicide alts in noobships will be the new scouts.
That's what I expect, alts in shuttles would be the best scout if covops end up being too vulnerable for the task.
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Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:46:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Anubis Xian
Oh I'm so sorry to hear that. No really, I am.
/me feels bad for the troll and feeds it. --
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Wolfie276
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:47:00 -
[75]
isnt it better to discuss this in the relevant thread? where CCP actually CARES to read?
anyways...agreed, bad change
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Casino Alkasar
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:54:00 -
[76]
All because of falcon
gaah!
seriously _________________ itze mine RockĻn roll |
Mire Stoude
Cash Money Brothers
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Posted - 2009.05.13 19:05:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Mire Stoude on 13/05/2009 19:06:34
Originally by: Anubis Xian
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: Anubis Xian So, you can't figure out a creative way to get your covert ops cloaked ship through a bubblecamp?
Do you even have Int implants?
Creative? Please tell me a "creative" way that does not require blowing out the "Covert" part of "Covert Ops"
You could maybe...cloak and then fly out of it?
Genius! Why didn't we ever think of cloaking!? My god, that module on my covert ops ship does what again? That's amazing.
I tried getting through a bubble camp with just an AB and cloak (it was all my bomber could fit). I barely escaped a vagabond flying by at 2500ms. Doing it without mwd/ab will result in getting decloaked and dead by any competent gang. If they can't decloak you when you're slow boating, you probably could have just slow boated uncloaked and warped away because they were morons.
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TheEndofTheWorld
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.05.13 19:08:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Nyphur 1. Small gangs can currently roam relatively freely, relying on the fact they can do a U-turn if they bump into a camp and most of them will survive the procedure. This forces the use of a scout but at the same time nerfs the ability of a scout in 0.0. It's certainly not ideal.
2. I'll wait and see if it hits TQ.
1. Small gangs(attackers) have no problems avoiding bigger gangs(defenders), but there is a major problem, the attackers have no method to harass/kill/destroy defender's supply lines. It is silly how easy life in 0.0 is with LOCAL, jump bridges and capitals. Small gangs do not need more nerfs... :/
The two changes here would be awesome in a EVE that had no LOCAL(!!!!)
2. It will be too late by then :/
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Mire Stoude
Cash Money Brothers
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Posted - 2009.05.13 19:08:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Mire Stoude on 13/05/2009 19:09:22
Originally by: Feilamya
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Anubis Xian Why do you jump through a gate with the expectation you should survive the camp on the other side?
Because you're the scout in a covert ops ship designed specifically for that task?
After this patch, suicide alts in noobships will be the new scouts.
Expect a lot of whineage about how this "tactic" is unfair metagaming and laugh about how CCP will never be able to nerf it.
Then they reduce all our accounts to just 1 char, take away the 2 week free trial and laugh back at us (probably point too).
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Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente The Crane Family
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Posted - 2009.05.13 19:09:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Anubis Xian They can only decloak you if they get close enough. And what stops you from just mwding without the cloak? Surely your cov ops equipped ship isnt plated?
Since you apparently haven't been paying attention: the three-second delay after the gate cloak (in addition to the fact that inties will quite happily hunt you down and ruin your day).
And even without the 3 second delay, you'll be going very slow when you hit the cloak, so those sensor boosted interceptors will be on you like flies on ****, decloak you, and then you're toast. The cloak+MWD trick actually gave you at least some chance of evading decloak. Not a lot with a good gatecamp, but at least some if you had the skill. Without it, it's hopeless.
So without a second account character in a shuttle, I see no practical way of getting intel on a gatecamp, and with that, CCP has finally caried solo and small gang warfare to its grave. The stupidity is mind boggling ... -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
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Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente The Crane Family
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Posted - 2009.05.13 19:13:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Feilamya
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Anubis Xian Why do you jump through a gate with the expectation you should survive the camp on the other side?
Because you're the scout in a covert ops ship designed specifically for that task?
After this patch, suicide alts in noobships will be the new scouts.
That's what I expect, alts in shuttles would be the best scout if covops end up being too vulnerable for the task.
I look in my crystal ball and forsee a lot of trial account characters blowing up their rookie ships in gatecamps to find out what's on the other side. Before lots of whining obviously ... -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Anubis Xian
Reavers
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Posted - 2009.05.13 19:16:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Mire Stoude Edited by: Mire Stoude on 13/05/2009 19:06:34
Originally by: Anubis Xian
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: Anubis Xian So, you can't figure out a creative way to get your covert ops cloaked ship through a bubblecamp?
Do you even have Int implants?
Creative? Please tell me a "creative" way that does not require blowing out the "Covert" part of "Covert Ops"
You could maybe...cloak and then fly out of it?
Genius! Why didn't we ever think of cloaking!? My god, that module on my covert ops ship does what again? That's amazing.
I tried getting through a bubble camp with just an AB and cloak (it was all my bomber could fit). I barely escaped a vagabond flying by at 2500ms. Doing it without mwd/ab will result in getting decloaked and dead by any competent gang. If they can't decloak you when you're slow boating, you probably could have just slow boated uncloaked and warped away because they were morons.
Or you could do the same silly trick as normal? Activate your mwd, then cloak and coast the rest of the way. Sure you may not be stupidly hard to kill anymore, but being an easy target is your fault as the pilot.
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.05.13 19:21:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Anubis Xian Or you could do the same silly trick as normal? Activate your mwd, then cloak and coast the rest of the way. Sure you may not be stupidly hard to kill anymore, but being an easy target is your fault as the pilot.
Second time you're not paying attention: you will no longer be able to MWD-coast… ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Anubis Xian
Reavers
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Posted - 2009.05.13 19:25:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Anubis Xian Or you could do the same silly trick as normal? Activate your mwd, then cloak and coast the rest of the way. Sure you may not be stupidly hard to kill anymore, but being an easy target is your fault as the pilot.
Second time you're not paying attention: you will no longer be able to MWD-coastā
So as soon as you cloak your speed will drop instantly down to normal?
Where exactly does it say that?
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.05.13 19:32:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Anubis Xian So as soon as you cloak your speed will drop instantly down to normal?
Where exactly does it say that?
It doesn't, but that's the effect. The instant you turn the cloak on, the MWD shuts down. The old MWD+cloak trick will give you a positively massive 5m/s boost to coast on.
Or are you seriously suggesting the following: 1. Double-click in space to exit jump-cloak and start moving. 2. Wait out the 3s delay. 3. Hit MWD. 4. Wait until fully accelerated. 5. Hit cloak. 6. Coast…
…as your tactic for evading a camp? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Hyperforce99
Gallente Infinite Covenant United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.13 19:33:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Hyperforce99 on 13/05/2009 19:35:51
Originally by: Anubis Xian
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Anubis Xian Or you could do the same silly trick as normal? Activate your mwd, then cloak and coast the rest of the way. Sure you may not be stupidly hard to kill anymore, but being an easy target is your fault as the pilot.
Second time you're not paying attention: you will no longer be able to MWD-coastā
So as soon as you cloak your speed will drop instantly down to normal?
Where exactly does it say that?
If a ship cloaks, all active modules that modify attributes, such as ECM, will stop immediately and the icons showing the effect will disappear.
right there.
If a ship cloaks (any ship)
all active modules (includes MWD and AB)
that modify attributes (again, a MWD changes your max speed)
WILL STOP IMMEDIATELY (meaning your max speed will go back to normal right away slowing you down).
Bad change IMO, very bad change. Covert Ops live or die by their ability to stay undetected and be uncatchable. If you make it impossible for them to escape gatecamps they are dead in the water.
Unless you make them invincible to bubbles like the T3 ships... technicly those would be the only ships capable of doing the covert ops role because of the warp scrambling jammer they can use as a subsystem. --------------------------------------------- Somewhere beyond happyness and sadness, I need to calculate what creates my own madness o/ |
Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente The Crane Family
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Posted - 2009.05.13 19:42:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Hyperforce99 Cause due to this change, the only ships capable of surviving a gatecamp would be T3 ships because those can use the passive warp scrambling jammer stat as a subsystem.
Little expensive to use T3 ships as scouts though...
Unfortunately, that bit if the T3 ships is actually broken and not fixed in this patch, so no, you can't even use T3 ships as scouts ...
FUBAR ... -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Anubis Xian
Reavers
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Posted - 2009.05.13 19:46:00 -
[88]
Do you people even know the definition of the word 'coast' in this context?
The MWD being on means you aren't coasting.
So you can either mwd back to the gate at full speed, whatever that is. Or hit the mwd, and then cloak and coast the rest of the way.
I don't see the problem here, and if you pull the Ace Card out of your collective ASSES you might realize you don't have to run back to the gate once you cloak. Ever heard of faking out an enemy?
Yeah, Jove forbid the average pilot in EvE can think outside the fotm strategy guide.
You lot fly your little noob alts.
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.05.13 19:51:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Anubis Xian So you can either mwd back to the gate at full speed, whatever that is. Or hit the mwd, and then cloak and coast the rest of the way.
…and the point you keep on missing is that unless you let the MWD run for a while, while you're still uncloaked and now have a hu-u-uge sig radius, there will be no speed boost to coast on. You hit MWD, start to accelerate, hit cloak, start to decelerate. The boost you get from the MWD between it starts and is cut off will be negligible.
——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Anubis Xian
Reavers
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Posted - 2009.05.13 19:52:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Anubis Xian So you can either mwd back to the gate at full speed, whatever that is. Or hit the mwd, and then cloak and coast the rest of the way.
āand the point you keep on missing is that unless you let the MWD run for a while, while you're still uncloaked and now have a hu-u-uge sig radius, there will be no speed boost to coast on. You hit MWD, start to accelerate, hit cloak, start to decelerate. The boost you get from the MWD between it starts and is cut off will be negligible.
Are you flying a brick? I thought you were flying a cov ops capable ship.
Silly me.
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
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