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Vaeldas
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Posted - 2009.05.14 14:32:00 -
[1]
So I've done some of the starter missions (on like...8 of 10 on the Mountains out of Molehills) and have decided on a path that I think I want to go for the game. Salvaging looks fun and I think that is where I'm going to put my energy and SP for the time being.
I'm in the process of training my learning skills up, I'm up to Rank 3 of the Install Recall, Analytical Mind and Learning skills, and am starting the advanced skills. I looked at the certificates for the Salvaging tree, and basically in EVEMon I set up the skills to get to the "elite" certificate for Salvaging (This is a really long term goal, but I think its the first place I want to go). I have Salvaging 1 and my Salvager 1 and am ready to take on the galaxy! Or am I?
I'm still in the mission frigate. I've only got Frigate 2. And I don't have any weapons/ship fun-things trained either. Should I hold off on learning about Salvaging until I can pilot a better ship? Should I take ship based skills first and then come back to Salvaging? I know in this game, all roads lead to the goals we set for ourselves, but I have 70 days worth of training ahead of me, and I'm concerned that if I just focus on my Salvaging goal, I'm going to run out of money because I'm unable to either buy skills I need, or perform tasks I need to perform in the meantime.
Any and all advice would be welcomed! Thanks!
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skeljita
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Posted - 2009.05.14 14:41:00 -
[2]
Edited by: skeljita on 14/05/2009 14:45:58 Edited by: skeljita on 14/05/2009 14:44:33 Personally id hold off on training salvaging if you are still on frigates. Train to use cruisers and appropriate weapon skills/shield skills/energy skills.
Salvaging is pretty useless without a salvaging ship and I wouldnt bother salvaging level 1 or level 2 missions.
In my opinion you are better off working on combat skills.
Also you dont need salvaging 5. Salvaging 3 is fine. When you do start to salvage as i said you will have a ship for it. Most likely that will be a destroyer or a battle cruiser. You will fit atleast 4 or 5 salvages and 2 or 3 tractor beams on it. SAlvaging 5 is a waste and the tech 2 salvager really is not needed.
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Vaeldas
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Posted - 2009.05.14 14:45:00 -
[3]
How do I know what ships are salvaging ships and what are more combat/mission runner/cargo type ships?
And that is good advice, I threw Frigate 3 in there during part of my training, but I Can always hold off on Salvaging until I get to Cruiser X and the ship skills.
One more thing, I'm wondering if the ships speed up as we go, Right now, I literally took a shower during the time it took me to fly from a mission start to the mission end point and still had 2 jumps to go. Do the ships get faster during warp/ after warp to the jump gates at all as we train newer engines and ship fun-toys?
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skeljita
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Posted - 2009.05.14 14:49:00 -
[4]
You can read my edit about salvaging ship. By dedicated salvaging ship i mean one that is fitted with salvagers and tractor beams. You will have 2 ships normally. 1 for combat and 1 to come back and salvage everything after you are done killing. Its better than trying to fit a salvager on your combat ship
As far as warp, it takes a long time because you are using auto pilot. Right click the gate you are jumping to and click jump to 0. Auto pilot jumps you 15km out from the jump gate so you have to travel 15km which can take forever in a slow ship.
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Vaeldas
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Posted - 2009.05.14 14:54:00 -
[5]
Ahhh...now this is making much more sense.
Thank you for the quick replies so far, I'm definitely going to have revise my plan and take a look at the ship paths that I'll need to take. Such an open ended and large game....
And thanks for the tidbit on warping, that makes much more sense :D
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skeljita
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Posted - 2009.05.14 14:58:00 -
[6]
Oh yeah one more thing. Train connections to level 3 if you want to skip level 1 missions. They are a waste of time and the rewards suck.
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Baka Lakadaka
Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2009.05.14 15:01:00 -
[7]
Autopilot is limited in it's use.
You should still take the time to set a destination, just don't use autopilot. Setting a destination turns the gates on your path yellow, making it easy to pick the right one when you're on a trip. ______________________ Isn't it time you learned to fight back? Agony Unleashed Home of the PvP University.
Now Recruiting. |
Lukriss
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Posted - 2009.05.14 15:29:00 -
[8]
1 thing you might considder though, is wether you'll have any ethical problems with really stealing other peoples loot. If that is a problem for you, you can't really make a career as a fulltime salvager.
However if it's no problem for you, train Salvaging, Covert Ops and Probing skills.
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Vaeldas
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Posted - 2009.05.14 15:33:00 -
[9]
I though I could do salvaging w/o having to steal from other players, like from rats and pirates and the like.
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Lukriss
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Posted - 2009.05.14 15:38:00 -
[10]
Yes, you can, but where would the wrecks come from :)?
If you're killing them yourself either by ratting or mission running, you wont be a fulltime salvager, but it's still a great way to make isk :)
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Renarla
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Posted - 2009.05.14 15:59:00 -
[11]
Train up probing skills as well, get your frigate skill to IV, train your racial destroyer. Use the probing frigate of your choice to probe down mission runners, and a destroyer fit with 8 salvagers to annoying the living **** out of said mission runners and make a decent living. :) However, on another note, I now have one of those annoying sigs. |
Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.05.14 15:59:00 -
[12]
There are a lot of skills to train to start out so you kind of have pick what your priorities are.
Mostly, what you want to do - is to train up enough skills to make some money with - THEN train your learning skills.
This however blows the opportunity to get all your learning skills quickly out of the way as a new person with the double training speed period.
You just need to make a judgement as to what is right for you as to how much you want to train before starting on your learning skills.
Now - the Social Skills will really help you.
Social itself increases the amount of standing you get for each increase. Negotiations increases the amount of rewards you get for the same mission. Connections boosts your standings with friendly agents. Diplomacy (which you probably don't want to train yet) boosts your standings with the enemy agents of your factions.
For myself - I always do Salvaging as soon as I can, then get into destroyers. Destroyers are vastly better at doing Level I missions and at salvaging them. It varies but if you get some good salvage drops they will pay many times more than the rewards of the average Level I mission. Melted Capacitor Consoles and Tritainium Bars as well as Armor Plates are worth a good bit.
Destroyers Level I will get you into a Destroyer and takes just a few minutes of training after you have Faction Frigate III. It uses the same weapons you use for Frigates so there's nothing else to learn - and they are relatively cheap compared to a cruiser. They are also more effective at running Level I missions than Cruisers and it's going to hurt a lot less to lose one if you do.
You want to train Salvaging to at least III though as there are some ships you can't salvage if your salvage level is to low. You'll get a message if that's the case.
Now, as to where Salvaging fits in your Career, many players simply salvage their own missions and the odd wreck they come across and leave it at that. Others - develop the skills to scan down mission runners then warp into their mission and salvage the wrecks the mission owner has created. This is fairly lucrative for your higher level missions but not something that's going to get you a lot from the lower ones. Salvaging their wrecks does not flag you to them (meaning that they could shoot you if you were flagged to them) but if you take loot from the wreck (opening it up and taking out any modules it has in it) that will flag you to them and they can blow you up. Of course, many of the players who loot someone elses wrecks WANT them to shoot at them - as that gives them the right to shoot back. They don't want the loot - they want to blow up the guy they stole from and are tricking him into shooting at them to do so.
Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
Vaeldas
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Posted - 2009.05.14 16:20:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Vaeldas on 14/05/2009 16:25:48 So how does salvaging fit with the grand scheme of things socially? It seems like salvaging someone's wrecks who is running a mission is equivalent to piracy. Is it socially acceptable to be a salvager in that light, or is one of those things that hurts my in game name, and causes me to be hated?
Toshiro did you mean Cruisers instead of Destroyers? I was under the impression that Cruisers were before Destroyers in the training scheme of things. And you say after I get Frigate 4 that I can do Destroyers in mere minutes later. Am I missing something?
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FOl2TY8
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.05.14 16:27:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Vaeldas So how does salvaging fit with the grand scheme of things socially? It seems like salvaging someone's wrecks who is running a mission is equivalent to piracy. Is it socially acceptable to be a salvager in that light, or is one of those things that hurts my in game name, and causes me to be hated?
It is considered stealing by people that are a over sensitive. I have had my missions ninja salvaged and I couldn't care less. I look at it this way, if someone rages on you for salvaging their mission then I wouldn't want them as a friend anyway.
One thing to also remember, if one group in Eve hates you (carebears) then you are almost sure to find a home with another group of people (pirates/ninja salvagers). Once you have some time in your employment history it doesn't really matter. Just don't be a whiny ass and your in-game rep will be fine.
If you become a successful salvager you can make a LOT of money. One thing that I find enjoyable about salvaging is find a system that has had several ships destroyed in it and salvage player wrecks. It's how I make most of my money. T2 salvage can go for 10-15 mil for EACH part. After an hour I can easily pull in 100 mil if I am careful about where I salvage. ---------- This post brought to you by the worst PVP'er in Eve |
Chathe
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.05.14 16:32:00 -
[15]
Quote: Salvaging looks fun and I think that is where I'm going to put my energy and SP for the time being.
What you're looking for to be pretty effective. Destroyer 1~5 destroyer in general rip through level 1 missions, but once you're done with those you can still use it a a salvaging ship because they have lots of highs for salvages / tractors and is reasonably quick to move around to wreck pockets Salvager 3~4 - see the above once you've got a few salvagers cycleing you don't need level 5 or tech 2 salvagers. Science 4 - ability to use tractors Afterburner - 1 ~ 4 - the ability to move your salaving ship around quickly
Quote: I'm in the process of training my learning skills up, I'm up to Rank 3 of the Install Recall, Analytical Mind and Learning skills, and am starting the advanced skills.
remember that each skill you train has an atribute set, also like most skills in this game training skills area a diminishing return item. the ammount of time to recoupe your training and start getting more skill points.
number of days to recoupe skill points after training the learning skill for said attribute. 0.16 0.89 5.05 28.57 161.62
advanced 0.32 1.79 10.10 57.14 323.23
also look at getting +1 to +3 implant skills and implants level 1 missions will give you a set of +1's really quickly.
Quote:
I'm still in the mission frigate. ......I need, or perform tasks I need to perform in the meantime.
You need a way to create / get to wrecks, or the salvaging skill is pointless.
Take a look at the various guides for either ninja salaving ( ie popping into other folks missions uninvited and salvaging there stuffs - this irriates some folks )
or missioning - creating your own wrecks to salvage later.
as to strapping a salvager to your combat ship I'd recommend against it, prolly better to throw anothe weapon in te slot , get the stuff killed faster then ether refit your salvagers or just swap ships to one with the appropiate bits.
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Hydra Ki
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.14 16:33:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Vaeldas Edited by: Vaeldas on 14/05/2009 16:25:48 So how does salvaging fit with the grand scheme of things socially? It seems like salvaging someone's wrecks who is running a mission is equivalent to piracy. Is it socially acceptable to be a salvager in that light, or is one of those things that hurts my in game name, and causes me to be hated?
Toshiro did you mean Cruisers instead of Destroyers? I was under the impression that Cruisers were before Destroyers in the training scheme of things. And you say after I get Frigate 4 that I can do Destroyers in mere minutes later. Am I missing something?
Some mission runners will be speeding through missions, and won't bother taking time to salvaging.
Some others will depend on that salvage as a source of income, and may get a miffed if you take it. they may even destroy the wrecks before you can get much out of it.
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Vaeldas
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Posted - 2009.05.14 16:49:00 -
[17]
There is a lot of good information in this thread, and nothing to really discourage me from wanting to do salvaging over a long term period. It seems fun and I'm excited to get up there! This game so far has been nothing but fun and I'm excited!
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FOl2TY8
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.05.14 16:59:00 -
[18]
Of course you could just ask in a mission hub local chat to salvage someones mission. Not very exciting but it can be done.
Also to add more to my above post I fit a cov-ops ship for salvaging player wrecks in lo-sec.
[Helios, Salvage] Overdrive Injector System II Inertia Stabilizers II Inertia Stabilizers II
1MN MicroWarpdrive II Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Scan Resolution Dampening Cap Recharger II
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Salvager I
Rigs: Salvage Tackle I Salvage Tackle I
With this fit I can get in and out of tight situations quickly. I have made more money with this ship than with my mission running Domi by far. Of course you probably can't fit a ship like this yet but keep it in mind if you want to make salvaging a career choice. One thing you have going for you is that you are Caldari and you can get into a Buzzard quicker than a Helios. The Buzzard has 3 high slots so you can fit an extra salvager.
---------- This post brought to you by the worst PVP'er in Eve |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.05.14 18:06:00 -
[19]
Firstly, salvaging is not theft.
From CCP PrismX
Quote: If you're surprised as to why the server does not consider it your stuff, it's because it's a mini profession designed for people who want to roam and look for salvage, not to further increase the revenue from mission grinding.. I doubt anyone with a perspective thinks we need to high-sec increase mission grinding any further.
Even if you have ethical issues with "stealing" internet pixels, salvaging doesn't even compare.
Anyway, there are a couple different methods of "salvaging"
One is the most common, "Ninjasalvaging", which is basically the act of scanning down missionrunners and salvaging the wrecks they leave behind. Some people also like to loot the wrecks (though this flags you to the missionrunner)
I wrote a guide on this here
You can also roam lowsec. You can use the starmap to look for player ships destroyed recently, and directional scan to find where wrecks are. As of right now, you can't actually scan down wrecks, though it's possible this will be added in the future.
Salvaging the remains of lowsec/0.0 battles wont get you anywhere close to the volume of salvage that ninjasalvaging does, but there's often tech2 wrecks. Tech 2 salvage is ridiculously valuable, however.
As far as ship types: For pure salvaging, you want something fast and agile, which means a frigate. If you're looting too, you might want something with a little bigger cargohold, like a cruiser. Destroyers are very clumsy and thus I wouldn't recommend them unless you want to use all the high slots for tractor beams (only useful if you're salvaging the wrecks you created)
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Vaeldas
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Posted - 2009.05.14 18:13:00 -
[20]
Okay, you guys keep referring to mission runners, and I keep acknowledging those w/o really understanding, what are the signs of a mission runner?
How do I tell that Ship X is a mission runner, when Ship Y (the same ship make up as Ship X) maybe is a PvP'r or maybe a just starting out miner, or a courier or any other type of player.
Is there a tag or a flag that goes up, or do I just learn through experience what types of players/ships are going to be mission runners?
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.05.14 18:24:00 -
[21]
most missions are kill missions. That is, some guy talks to an agent -> warps to an area that is just spawned out in the middle of space -> Kills **** -> turns in for reward.
With combat probes, you can scan down the people inside the missions and salvage the wrecks right under them.
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FOl2TY8
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.05.14 19:34:00 -
[22]
The best way to scan down a mission runner is to go to a mission hub like Dodixie and scan down Navy Issue Raven's or Navy Megthron's. It doesn't matter if they are pvp'ers because if you scan someone down in high-sec and salvage their missions they cannot attack you without Concord showing up. If you loot the wrecks however they can shoot you at will. ---------- This post brought to you by the worst PVP'er in Eve |
Grim Re4per
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Posted - 2009.05.14 19:38:00 -
[23]
Does the initial military tutorial give you the salvaging skill, or do you pretty much have to buy it if your character didn't start with it?
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FOl2TY8
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.05.14 19:43:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Grim Re4per Does the initial military tutorial give you the salvaging skill, or do you pretty much have to buy it if your character didn't start with it?
As far as I know you always have to buy it. It only requires mechanic 3 and science 3 so it is really easy to train for. Here is a list of where to buy and how much. ---------- This post brought to you by the worst PVP'er in Eve |
Ultranoia
Temple of THEM
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Posted - 2009.05.14 20:22:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Ultranoia on 14/05/2009 20:22:37
Originally by: Vaeldas Edited by: Vaeldas on 14/05/2009 16:25:48 So how does salvaging fit with the grand scheme of things socially? It seems like salvaging someone's wrecks who is running a mission is equivalent to piracy. Is it socially acceptable to be a salvager in that light, or is one of those things that hurts my in game name, and causes me to be hated?
Some don't care, some consider you to be annoying, some think you are the servant of Satan.
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Grim Re4per
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Posted - 2009.05.14 21:04:00 -
[26]
Say you're running around salvaging other mission runners' wrecks in empire space. Does salvaging their wrecks allow them to shoot you without any help from CONCORD?
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.14 21:26:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Vaeldas There is a lot of good information in this thread, and nothing to really discourage me from wanting to do salvaging over a long term period. It seems fun and I'm excited to get up there! This game so far has been nothing but fun and I'm excited!
I didn't see anyone suggest this, but I may have missed it: You could decide to become a professional salvager for hire.
With this, all you need is a salvaging ship, like a destroyer (8 high slots = 4 salvagers + 4 tractor beams). It is up to your employer to create the wrecks
You follow them around in say a level 4 mission, salvage their wrecks so ninja salvagers don't steal them (this is a good marketing point by the way to sell your services). You then get paid either a fixed sum of ISK, or take your pay as a percentage of what you salvage.
Optionally, you could become a ninja salvager yourself. Though that path leads to the dark side, and could involve you in PvP, which would require more advanced skills and ships to retaliate.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.05.14 21:26:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Grim Re4per Say you're running around salvaging other mission runners' wrecks in empire space. Does salvaging their wrecks allow them to shoot you without any help from CONCORD?
Nope.
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.14 21:30:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Grim Re4per Say you're running around salvaging other mission runners' wrecks in empire space. Does salvaging their wrecks allow them to shoot you without any help from CONCORD?
You are free to salvage without CONCORD intervention. CONCORD likes space to be clean.
You however may not loot the cargoholds, or the cans they turn into after salvaging, without being flagged as an aggressor to the wreck owner and corporation. CONCORD doesn't care, but the wreck owner and their corporation might. Again this applies only to looting, not salvaging!
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.05.14 21:31:00 -
[30]
Quote: salvage their wrecks so ninja salvagers don't steal them
Any good ninjasalvager can salvage wrecks out of tractor beams
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