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Eternum Praetorian
Malum Crusis
787
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Posted - 2012.05.12 02:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
maxum flaxum wrote:don't mind him, he's just pissed that he can't kill anything in his high sec war because gw3ndolin3 keeps using a neutral guardian and oneiros
Well, since you mentioned it.... 2x guardians didn't seem to save his navy domi, his expensive pod or the rest of his friends in mining for profit who were afraid to undock and fight us. So, you seem to be grossly misinformed.
Linkage
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Eternum Praetorian
Malum Crusis
787
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Posted - 2012.05.12 03:01:00 -
[32] - Quote
Cartheron Crust wrote:Ah yes use one of the worst ships for an RR BS as an example to why Logistics ships need to be nerfed.
Armageddon has one spare high slot for a remote rep mod. Bad. It only has three midslots. Bad. It uses its cap for guns. Bad.
This is not a good ship to base your argument on.
[EDIT] - As it seems your main gripe is not being able to kill things before they can deagress and dock perhaps try fighting somewhere they cannot use that dock button.
Allot of people here exhibit gross reading comprehension difficulties. I advise you to go back and read it again, and while you're at it, please tell me how other racial ships are superior to geddons when guardians are involved giving reps at 60km. I would love to hear your sparkling insights.
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4239
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Posted - 2012.05.12 03:08:00 -
[33] - Quote
Allot of people can't spell "a lot" "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Eternum Praetorian
Malum Crusis
787
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Posted - 2012.05.12 03:11:00 -
[34] - Quote
Andski wrote:Allot of people can't spell "a lot"
I do prefer your over you're because it is easier to type , and yet I do not spell lose as loose. But is that really your best troll for the night? I mean... here I am advocating the nerfing of your PVPbear-stupid-easy-I-win button. Can you come up with nothing more?
I mean what if CCP listens.. And... And.. (shudders to think of it)
You have to actually lose a ship every now and then
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Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
648
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Posted - 2012.05.12 03:15:00 -
[35] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:It is my belief that anything that prevents lol, your belief is not good enough reason to fix anything. Your belief is like saying Titan's were WTFOMGBBQ poweful, but in actually your belief is covering the fact that you suck just as much the guys getting shot by XL guns.
See, my belief is that it is infact the whiney players that can't adapt that are the problem. Someone points out to shoot the guardian, OP says that is stupid. OMG OP is one dumb dude.
See, the problem in EVE is that we have people on both sides of the fence in EVE and one adapts to some plan/strategy/tactic but the other side deems it not fair requesting CCP fix everything from XL gun tracking, JF are riskless because they can avoid people (which is what its supposed to ******* do), move level 4s to lowsec, remote neutrol reppers, self destruct ect. Why is it that the people in this game cannot ******* adapt, so they instead fly capital ships that don't pop to XL guns, guys cannot get better at trying to catch JF, just leave station where the guys are using the remote reps (you don't have to acutally fight them), increase the needed DPS before a ship explodes (after the first fight, you should relize what you need to increase...DPS of course) or this is really insane...but how about people try to lead those dudes that run level 4s in lowsec by being a supportive model leader.
Incase you all just got blurry eyed over the last sentence, why don't you adapt and get better at EVE. When someone decides to pay their subscription to dedicate theselves to some plan of their own, CCP doesn't need to change the game just because you keep losing. That would be like asking the guys who have the better run times in the upcomming olympics to leave the games, just because they are .01 seconds better then you is no excuse you cannot become self improved and become .02 seconds better then without an outside party (CCP in this case) to make you feel more like a champ. |
Silly Slot
Phoenix Evolved Part Duo
26
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Posted - 2012.05.12 03:16:00 -
[36] - Quote
SOMEONE please close this troll of a thread,
I mean seriously you want to nerf LOGI? They already dont get on killmails and you want to make them less effective, wow why not just remove the ships entierly and we can just have slug fest to 0 ships after slug fest to 0 ships every time...
Yes RR is a force multiplier... JUST LIKE ECM... Yes a guardian can run for 1m + without its cap chain depending on fit... but heres the thing have you ever been in a 20 man logi chain and get f*cking jammed out and have to get things back up and running beefore your fleet of god knows how many battleships is waisted...
I mean i could see nerfing if we had 3 man BS roams going around with 3 logi, and were unstopable and unkillable, but thats just NOT THE CASE. |
Silly Slot
Phoenix Evolved Part Duo
26
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Posted - 2012.05.12 03:18:00 -
[37] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Cartheron Crust wrote:Ah yes use one of the worst ships for an RR BS as an example to why Logistics ships need to be nerfed.
Armageddon has one spare high slot for a remote rep mod. Bad. It only has three midslots. Bad. It uses its cap for guns. Bad.
This is not a good ship to base your argument on.
[EDIT] - As it seems your main gripe is not being able to kill things before they can deagress and dock perhaps try fighting somewhere they cannot use that dock button. A lot of people here exhibit gross reading comprehension difficulties. I advise you to go back and read it again, and while you're at it, please tell me how other racial ships are superior to geddons when guardians are involved giving reps at 60km. I would love to hear your sparkling insights.
mmmm alpha maelstroms, sniper rokhs, sniper naga's seriously wtf dude, just because guardians make a fight harder to win doesn't meant here a I win button, theres multiple counters to them
A. Alpha B. ECM C. Neuts (a curse for gods sake) |
Eternum Praetorian
Malum Crusis
787
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 03:18:00 -
[38] - Quote
Aqriue wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:It is my belief that anything that prevents lol, your belief is not good enough reason to fix anything. Your belief is like saying Titan's were WTFOMGBBQ poweful, but in actually your belief is covering the fact that you suck just as much the guys getting shot by XL guns. See, my belief is that it is infact the whiney players that can't adapt that are the problem. Someone points out to shoot the guardian, OP says that is stupid. OMG OP is one dumb dude. See, the problem in EVE is that we have people on both sides of the fence in EVE and one adapts to some plan/strategy/tactic but the other side deems it not fair requesting CCP fix everything from XL gun tracking, JF are riskless because they can avoid people (which is what its supposed to ******* do), move level 4s to lowsec, remote neutrol reppers, self destruct ect. Why is it that the people in this game cannot ******* adapt, so they instead fly capital ships that don't pop to XL guns, guys cannot get better at trying to catch JF, just leave station where the guys are using the remote reps (you don't have to acutally fight them), increase the needed DPS before a ship explodes (after the first fight, you should relize what you need to increase...DPS of course) or this is really insane...but how about people try to lead those dudes that run level 4s in lowsec by being a supportive model leader. Incase you all just got blurry eyed over the last sentence, why don't you adapt and get better at EVE. When someone decides to pay their subscription to dedicate theselves to some plan of their own, CCP doesn't need to change the game just because you keep losing. That would be like asking the guys who have the better run times in the upcomming olympics to leave the games, just because they are .01 seconds better then you is no excuse you cannot become self improved and become .02 seconds better then without an outside party (CCP in this case) to make you feel more like a champ.
* does not read a post from an alt with no face.
I mean... at least make a face if you're going cower behind an alt toon.
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Eternum Praetorian
Malum Crusis
787
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Posted - 2012.05.12 03:19:00 -
[39] - Quote
Silly Slot wrote:I mean i could see nerfing if we had 3 man BS roams going around with 3 logi, and were unstopable and unkillable, but thats just NOT THE CASE.
With three guardians in tow, I can honestly say that I am unkillable unless I am up against 10:1 odds. Not because I am that win, but because of how logi's rep my buffer ship with relation to aggression timers, gates and stations in ever sector of space. If you do not understand this, then you do not understand EVE.
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Eternum Praetorian
Malum Crusis
787
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Posted - 2012.05.12 03:24:00 -
[40] - Quote
Silly Slot wrote:
A. Alpha B. ECM C. Neuts (a curse for gods sake)
I think I covered each of these topics in my OP, way to read and give viable counter arguments. Do you have any BTW?
EDIT:
This thread is now about how risk adverse the vast majority of EVE's "L33T" player base has become.
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Cartheron Crust
Matari Exodus
22
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Posted - 2012.05.12 03:39:00 -
[41] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Cartheron Crust wrote:Ah yes use one of the worst ships for an RR BS as an example to why Logistics ships need to be nerfed.
Armageddon has one spare high slot for a remote rep mod. Bad. It only has three midslots. Bad. It uses its cap for guns. Bad.
This is not a good ship to base your argument on.
[EDIT] - As it seems your main gripe is not being able to kill things before they can deagress and dock perhaps try fighting somewhere they cannot use that dock button. A lot of people here exhibit gross reading comprehension difficulties. I advise you to go back and read it again, and while you're at it, please tell me how other racial ships are superior to geddons when guardians are involved giving reps at 60km. I would love to hear your sparkling insights.
Because you should base your argument on a ship that is actually suited to the role you are trying to mimic? Rather than one of the worst ships for the intended role? Now over the Armageddon; the Tempest has an extra utility high and two extra mids; the Typhoon has two extra utility highs and an extra mid and the Dominix has five extra utility highs and two extra mids. None of them use cap for their DPS. Perhaps use these to base an argument on.
Now onto your "problem" of being able rep at 60km. The RR BS does Remote Rep, Tackle and DPS. The Logistics ship does Remote Rep (two of the four can also generate cap). In your own example scenario the Logistics ship flyer is giving up the potential to do DPS and tackle to be more efficient at repping. This is what specialist ships do. This isn't even a problem. Your problem seems to be people using some preparation and organisation and you don't want to put in some effort to counter it. |
Jovan Geldon
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
417
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Posted - 2012.05.12 04:42:00 -
[42] - Quote
You used two whole posts to essentially say "I don't have enough friends"
Good job |
FluffyDice
StarFckers Inc.
190
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Posted - 2012.05.12 05:47:00 -
[43] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote: More death is better for the game. Tracking titans need a buff. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
675
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 06:07:00 -
[44] - Quote
FluffyDice wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote: More death is better for the game. Tracking titans need a buff. Titan swarm agrees. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
ElQuirko
Gravit Negotii Rogue Elements.
677
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Posted - 2012.05.12 12:41:00 -
[45] - Quote
No, really. Shoot it. I'm sorry, but, frankly, it's the obvious counter. Primary it and the alpha damage will exceed the other logis in the fleet's locktime. CISPA - Readin' your secret corptheft mails since 2012 |
Garnoo
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
36
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Posted - 2012.05.12 13:09:00 -
[46] - Quote
i think Eternum Praetorian is just dumb... "Observe the logistic ship, a vessel that has no stacking penalty to itGÇÖs LARGE RR mods" wft? what stacking penalty he wants??? mayby he still thinks guns have stacking penalty or something...
are we playing in the same game? People are going to try to ruin your day. Get together with others, ruin their day back - this is EvE |
Vikura
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.05.12 13:39:00 -
[47] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
If a fleet of 5 ArmageddonGÇÖs engages another fleet of 5, and each side has 2 logistics ship, the out going DPS remains around 5,000 where as the repair rate of each fleet is now 2,900 (verses EM-Therm) So you are repairing 3/5ths of the incoming damage, on ships that have around 120+ EHP.
So you are complaining that 5 vs. 7 situation is not balanced and the team of 5 might not be able to score a kill at all, or single kill only? i'm shocked that in a MMO team with more people have better chances to win!
It should be 7 Arma's vs. 5 Arma's with 2 logistics. So 7000 DPS 213 repair vs. 5000 DPS 2900 repair
OR just 4100 DPS (no logistics) vs. 4780 DPS (logistics) when you remove the DPS that RRs and repairs would cancel. |
Selinate
859
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 13:49:00 -
[48] - Quote
Garnoo wrote:i think Eternum Praetorian is just dumb... "Observe the logistic ship, a vessel that has no stacking penalty to itGÇÖs LARGE RR mods" wft? what stacking penalty he wants??? mayby he still thinks guns have stacking penalty or something...
are we playing in the same game?
I don't think. I know.
Shoot the logi, ECM the logi, neut the logi, all viable counters. Game is balanced as far as logis go. |
Daniel L'Siata
Echelon Conflict Resolution. Psychotic Tendencies.
115
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Posted - 2012.05.12 14:37:00 -
[49] - Quote
This is a bad thread and you should feel bad. I stopped paying any attention at the parts where you advocated fitting Cap Rechargers to PvP ships and demonstrated no solid understanding whatsoever of how to neutralise Logistics.
Please get off EFT and start undocking, you might learn something. I don't want to set the world on fire... Just you.
Psychotic Tendencies is now recruiting skilled PvP pilots of all TZ's. |
Aiwha
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
345
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Posted - 2012.05.12 14:45:00 -
[50] - Quote
Which is why modern fleet concepts account for RR.
Alpha fleet hits it before logi can react.
PANIC fleets switch targets hilariously fast to out pace logi pilots.
Just about every alliance has their own versions of these two concepts. Regards,
LCpl. Aiwha-á Senior Recruiter |
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Bootleg Jack
Potters Field
76
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Posted - 2012.05.12 15:45:00 -
[51] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote: That is an awful lot of healing space wizards. I'm not a WOW player so I could be wrong here, but shouldn't it be Cleric? Mr Epeen
Oh come on, you don't "heal" your ship? I'm an American, English is my second language... |
Just Alter
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
111
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 16:56:00 -
[52] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Silly Slot wrote:I mean i could see nerfing if we had 3 man BS roams going around with 3 logi, and were unstopable and unkillable, but thats just NOT THE CASE. With three guardians in tow, I can honestly say that I am unkillable unless I am up against 10:1 odds. Not because I am that win, but because of how logi's rep my buffer ship with relation to aggression timers, gates and stations in ever sector of space. If you do not understand this, then you do not understand EVE.
But that sentence has no meaning at all.
It would make no sense if you'd be able to get killed (btw you can : alpha) with 3 logis repping you.
What do you want, removal of logis?
Even if they nerfed it you would just change the number (from 3 to 5 logis) and the problem would be the same.
Stop whining, stop posting, stop playing.
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Markus Reese
Debitum Naturae ROMANIAN-LEGION
172
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Posted - 2012.05.12 17:16:00 -
[53] - Quote
Going to add to this here, there is another little secret that will result in logistics needing a change. that is a certain lockbreaker module that while messes up ability to lock when active, really eliminates blob tactics. If you start getting targeted, turn on and alot less alpha coming at you. Not seeded, but is on sisi so will have to see how it works. Essentially, they work fine because of the blob where we get enough dps to swamp a logistic or alpha before they can swap targets. If the blob becomes a possible negative, logistics are way to overpowered. |
Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
12
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Posted - 2012.05.12 17:25:00 -
[54] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote: A game mechanic balanced on who has the stupidest FC. Winning?
Yes. The outcome of fights decided by player skill and experience is what we should aim for. Always.
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Torneach
Emrys Enterprises
81
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Posted - 2012.05.12 17:27:00 -
[55] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:A game mechanic balanced on who has the stupidest FC. Winning?
Actually, it is pretty fantastic, you should find yourself a good FC. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1864
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Posted - 2012.05.12 17:29:00 -
[56] - Quote
Markus Reese wrote:Going to add to this here, there is another little secret that will result in logistics needing a change. that is a certain lockbreaker module that while messes up ability to lock when active, really eliminates blob tactics. If you start getting targeted, turn on and alot less alpha coming at you. Not seeded, but is on sisi so will have to see how it works. Essentially, they work fine because of the blob where we get enough dps to swamp a logistic or alpha before they can swap targets. If the blob becomes a possible negative, logistics are way to overpowered.
It will be interesting, as the new module will likely break logistics locks on the primary target as well as hostile locks.
On the other hand, if this module comes into common usage fleets will start calling multiple targets (probably called by squadron or wing commanders individually) instead of one primary for the entire fleet. If this happens the job of the logistics pilot becomes much more difficult unless the number of logistics pilots in a fleet is increased and assigned on a squadron basis. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Eternum Praetorian
Malum Crusis
790
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Posted - 2012.05.12 19:37:00 -
[57] - Quote
The comments on this thread did surprise me a little. Here is why...
1.) I did not fully realize how willfully risk adverse people had become in EVE... until now. 2.) Why should a null sec Alpha fleet be the dominate (and almost only) viable form of PVP in this game? You people seem to think that your style of PVP is the only style of PVP.
All your countermeasures to guardians work after a fashion, sure. But none of you really addressed the point of this post. In fact it was not even touched upon. It was DPS vs Tank Vs players at the keyboard, and how that factors into PVP in this MMORPG. I advocated one thing and one thing only, DPS should increase far more per ship (and per player) then tank does. I believe this because I believe that EVE is a better EVE when people know they are going to die when they engage.
Since no post has addressed this, all of your posts are just the upchucked troll dung spewed forth by blobbers and risk adverse fail bears. The post stands, and their is a need in EVE Online right now for GREATER DPS vs TANK. Whether that is nerfing logistics ships or giving RR a general stacking penalty.... I don't really care. But there is a need. The state of small gang PVP in EVE Online is not healthy, and many of us are not interested in playing null sec blobs online.
If CCP does not realize that, they will lose revenue. If the lot of you don't care about that... then so be it. But that is the reality of EVE Online.
If CCP gave people like me a new and improved venue to experience small gang PVP, with more death, less RR, less blobbing and no capital ships they would see a huge influx of interest. So much so that I image your null sec empires would lose players. I see how that would not be a good thing for you, but this is a game not real life. Lots of people here don't want to play your eve online.
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Just Alter
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
111
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Posted - 2012.05.12 22:27:00 -
[58] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Markus Reese wrote:Going to add to this here, there is another little secret that will result in logistics needing a change. that is a certain lockbreaker module that while messes up ability to lock when active, really eliminates blob tactics. If you start getting targeted, turn on and alot less alpha coming at you. Not seeded, but is on sisi so will have to see how it works. Essentially, they work fine because of the blob where we get enough dps to swamp a logistic or alpha before they can swap targets. If the blob becomes a possible negative, logistics are way to overpowered. It will be interesting, as the new module will likely break logistics locks on the primary target as well as hostile locks. On the other hand, if this module comes into common usage fleets will start calling multiple targets (probably called by squadron or wing commanders individually) instead of one primary for the entire fleet. If this happens the job of the logistics pilot becomes much more difficult unless the number of logistics pilots in a fleet is increased and assigned on a squadron basis.
The alpha will be much less intimidating.
I also think the module wont work with friendlies, otherwise some strange mechanics would take place. |
Just Alter
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
111
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 22:31:00 -
[59] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote: 1.) I did not fully realize how willfully risk adverse people had become in EVE... until now. .
http://youtu.be/OHVjs4aobqs
Stop it goddamit.
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De Douche
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.05.12 22:42:00 -
[60] - Quote
1/10 troll
OP is a pro (big fan) logi pilot
And yes i've flown with him many times... but he doesn't know how I am so .I.. :p |
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