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kongking wang
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Posted - 2009.05.25 10:34:00 -
[31]
Originally by: SentryRaven
Originally by: kongking wang
thats the whole point. you cannot scam bk
Why exactly not?
ok you scam me.. ok i lost 100mil for examle... "hey you just scammed me.. plz accept my scam so i can get my money bk" (the hunter always wins without risk)
doesnt quite work does it.
i shoot you.. "ow that hurt. take some missiles ...haha your dead.. better luck next time" (the hunter becomes the prey, risk. the hunter wins, reward)
etc etc |
SentryRaven
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.25 10:40:00 -
[32]
To be honest, we are circling around the definitions of PvP and apparently yours is different than mine. Let's just agree that we disagree.
Scamming is part of the game and I think it is what I would call "taxes for the stupid". You have all the means to prevent being scammed and essentially it's your own problem if you get scammed.
I wish you well with your attempt to abolish scamming, but I disagree with it and hope scamming will never be removed. |
Valandril
Caldari Ex-Mortis
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Posted - 2009.05.25 10:43:00 -
[33]
Originally by: kongking wang
Originally by: SentryRaven
Originally by: kongking wang
thats the whole point. you cannot scam bk
Why exactly not?
ok you scam me.. ok i lost 100mil for examle... "hey you just scammed me.. plz accept my scam so i can get my money bk" (the hunter always wins without risk)
doesnt quite work does it.
Obviously it does not because he is smarter than you. And yes, you can scam a scammer, but you must be smarter than he is. |
Eriandia
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Posted - 2009.05.25 10:46:00 -
[34]
Originally by: kongking wang
no i said countered.. you get ganked you have kill rights.. you hunt the guy down and you have revenge
revenge/kill rights does not equal countering.
Countering would be stopping it from happening after it has started, revenge is getting even after the fact. |
kongking wang
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Posted - 2009.05.25 10:47:00 -
[35]
Originally by: SentryRaven To be honest, we are circling around the definitions of PvP and apparently yours is different than mine. Let's just agree that we disagree.
Scamming is part of the game and I think it is what I would call "taxes for the stupid". You have all the means to prevent being scammed and essentially it's your own problem if you get scammed.
I wish you well with your attempt to abolish scamming, but I disagree with it and hope scamming will never be removed.
i never said i wanted to abolish it. i just want it to have some element of risk.
i would go for being able to petition for kill rights against the account. i would say character but every scammer uses alts so would be pointless howether its totally plausable that under interogation the scammer gives up his boss's for fredom. then you can atleast have some sort of revenge.
the way i see it working is for example you get scammed for a ship that isnt what is described. you petition and if ccp deems it a big enougth scam they then grant temperary kill rights on the person |
Lear Hepburn
Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent
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Posted - 2009.05.25 10:53:00 -
[36]
PvP means "player versus player", not "player versus player with equal opportunities". Eve is not fair. Some people are better at being nasty than others. Some people fall for scams. Life is a b!tch. Man up and deal with it. |
kongking wang
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Posted - 2009.05.25 11:01:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Lear Hepburn PvP means "player versus player", not "player versus player with equal opportunities". Eve is not fair. Some people are better at being nasty than others. Some people fall for scams. Life is a b!tch. Man up and deal with it.
look up the definitions of versus and pvp then repost your reply |
Eriandia
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Posted - 2009.05.25 11:26:00 -
[38]
Originally by: kongking wang
look up the definitions of versus and pvp then repost your reply
Wiki on PvP mentions that it does not have to be consentual. Like someone taken by surprise. You go to accept a contract you think is 200k, surprise, you just paid 200m.
And again I refer to ganking. |
eliminator2
Gallente Annihilate. Shock Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.25 11:28:00 -
[39]
Originally by: kongking wang
Originally by: eliminator2 i so LOFL at this
troll comes to mind but meh :D
scams are actually known as a form of pvp upon the market
its like pirates they fly around steal anythin they can and take ur isk or blow ur ship up
nothing like pirating as you can fight bk.. scamming you cannot
atcually pvp doesnt have to consist of the second person/target to fight back
and you can fight back/prevent these from happening by just simply using your brain plain and simple get glass's or something |
ShadowDraqon
The Quantum Company
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Posted - 2009.05.25 11:34:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Eriandia You go to accept a contract you think is 200k, surprise, you just paid 200m.
1. Make a corp. 2. Use corp wallet as your wallet. 3. Only keep as much as you think you need in your personal wallet. 4. If you hit one of these scams, you're safe, 'cause you only have 200k in your wallet, not 200m. 5. ???? 6. Scam proof! (unless you stumble across a "navy ship" scam...) |
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Lear Hepburn
Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent
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Posted - 2009.05.25 12:01:00 -
[41]
Originally by: kongking wang
Originally by: Lear Hepburn PvP means "player versus player", not "player versus player with equal opportunities". Eve is not fair. Some people are better at being nasty than others. Some people fall for scams. Life is a b!tch. Man up and deal with it.
look up the definitions of versus and pvp then repost your reply
Here. It can be non-consensual. Like I said, man up, dry your eyes, grow some and deal with it. |
Lear Hepburn
Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent
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Posted - 2009.05.25 12:16:00 -
[42]
Let's assume that there must be a winner and a loser in PvP.
In a successful scam the scammer takes more money from the target than the item is worth - the scammer wins, the target loses. In order to set the trap, though, the scammer has to invest time, money and the item. If the trap is not taken then the scammer loses the cost of putting the item up for auction. The target succeeds because he loses nothing and gets his item from a legitimate trader - the scammer loses and the target wins.
Scamming is a trap. As with any trap at all, success for the target lies in not springing it. Your payback to the scammer is telling everyone in local that it's a scam, and maybe posting in the C&P board that it is a scam - maybe some kind of "current scams" sticky thread in C&P would be a useful idea to come out of this. |
kongking wang
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Posted - 2009.05.26 00:05:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Lear Hepburn Let's assume that there must be a winner and a loser in PvP.
In a successful scam the scammer takes more money from the target than the item is worth - the scammer wins, the target loses. In order to set the trap, though, the scammer has to invest time, money and the item. If the trap is not taken then the scammer loses the cost of putting the item up for auction. The target succeeds because he loses nothing and gets his item from a legitimate trader - the scammer loses and the target wins.
Scamming is a trap. As with any trap at all, success for the target lies in not springing it. Your payback to the scammer is telling everyone in local that it's a scam, and maybe posting in the C&P board that it is a scam - maybe some kind of "current scams" sticky thread in C&P would be a useful idea to come out of this.
what a load of rubbish.
they risk nothing when they are getting 200-300% profit. and with decent skills putting up a contract fee is nothing. like everyone in eve i have ships lying about everywhere. i can put these up now and scam and it would cost me little to do so. and if they dont go i loose next to nothing. the only thing they have to loose is contract fee which is nothing.
warning of a scam does nothing either. there are thousands of systems in eve. costs them nothing to jump 1 system over and start again. which they often do
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BlyTwo
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Posted - 2009.05.26 03:03:00 -
[44]
When you got a game that has the possibility of stealing scamming and what not, it is the nature of people to do all of things as much as they can, it gets very irritating... I must agree with the putting things out for millions when they are supposed to only be worth thousands, like medium lasers, I donno what happened, but they all cost a fortune...
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AtheistOfDoom
Amarr The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.05.26 05:26:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Lear Hepburn PvP means "player versus player", not "player versus player with equal opportunities". Eve is not fair. Some people are better at being nasty than others. Some people fall for scams. Life is a b!tch. Man up and deal with it.
QFT And then, he killed the dog... |
Lear Hepburn
Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent
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Posted - 2009.05.26 06:02:00 -
[46]
Originally by: kongking wang what a load of rubbish.
they risk nothing when they are getting 200-300% profit. and with decent skills putting up a contract fee is nothing. like everyone in eve i have ships lying about everywhere. i can put these up now and scam and it would cost me little to do so. and if they dont go i loose next to nothing. the only thing they have to loose is contract fee which is nothing.
warning of a scam does nothing either. there are thousands of systems in eve. costs them nothing to jump 1 system over and start again. which they often do
Since you think that scamming is so easy then why don't you go try it? I admit that I haven't scammed or tried to scam anyone, but that's no reason for you not to try. Neither have I been scammed though, and that's because I READ THE CONTRACT.
Read the last paragraph of what you quoted: scamming is a trap, success lies in avoiding it.
As a thought, what would you suggest is a suitable punishment for scamming and why? Where do you draw the line between a fair deal and a scam and why? Whose fault is the scam's success and why, when ultimately the target has to accept the contract? Unless these answers can be clear then scamming as it is will remain. The only thing that may change is the UI, but in the meantime I suggest you READ THE CONTRACT and don't be such a lazy b*gger.
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Scientific Method
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Posted - 2009.05.26 10:31:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Scientific Method on 26/05/2009 10:34:16
Originally by: kongking wang what a load of rubbish.
they risk nothing when they are getting 200-300% profit.
Yeah, because members of the scammers guild get a free pass to put up contracts at no cost.
Quote: and with decent skills putting up a contract fee is nothing.
So you're now redefining "nothing" in the same way you're redefining "PVP".
Quote: and if they dont go i loose next to nothing. the only thing they have to loose is contract fee which is nothing.
There's only one "o" in "lose".
Quote: thats the whole point. you cannot scam bk
By falling for the scam in the first place you've demonstrated to everyone's satisfaction that the scammer is significantly smarter than you. I think we all know which way a rematch would go, so what would be the point?
If I'm in low sec and someone tries to lock me but I warp away in time, I consider that a win. If someone tries to scam me but I engage my brain and don't fall for it, that is also a win. So that's PVP.
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Goti Evans
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Posted - 2009.05.26 11:09:00 -
[48]
You may not beable to return fire with scams... but equaly you can compleatly avoide it something that for example a freighter can't although the frighter pilot can take cirten precautionary measuers (such as an escort with RR's) and of couse gets kill rights after the fact.
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Miilla
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Posted - 2009.05.26 11:30:00 -
[49]
Call a waaaambulance.
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Thera Romana
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Posted - 2009.05.26 11:44:00 -
[50]
scamming is pvp
Thier attack, is they quote a price in chat that is fairly normal, then in contract its higher usually 000 higher.
Counter attack is calling thier scam in local, the warning of your fellow travelers. In systems with good local groups scammers dont hang out long cause it doesn't work there.
If you out number any attacker they will move on same as any combat, but key is you have to fire back.
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Lemmy Kravitz
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Posted - 2009.05.26 11:52:00 -
[51]
Scams, and confidence games only work for 1 reason. The greed of the person who is being scammed or conned. As the saying goes, "You can't con an honest person" it's very true. Shame on you sir for being a greedy idiot.
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Hooded Person
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.05.26 12:02:00 -
[52]
Originally by: kongking wang
Originally by: AtheistOfDoom LMAO
you laugthing at him or his disability. i personally dont find it funny and im sure ccp wont either. mmog's are supposed to cater for everyone, even to those who are hard of seeing and reading. scamming plays on these weaknesses and is far too easy and common to do. everything in eve has its plus sides and its weaknesses. each has a risk/reward balance to it. scamming has all the reward and no risk. a ballance should be introduced or it should be stopped.
I am brain damaged and currently in a vegetative state. Please invent and allow the use of human-level AI-macros to allow me to compete with everyone else. Thankyou.
PS. People who can't count shouldn't be given special treatment.
Originally by: RedSplat
PvP flagging would solve this issue.
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Traidor Disloyal
Minmatar Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2009.05.26 14:59:00 -
[53]
To the OP: 1. Eve is not a nice place 2. Get glasses
************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it. |
RedSplat
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.05.26 15:14:00 -
[54]
Greed is a handicap guys, lets all make allowances for the greedy.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
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Jade Mitch
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.05.27 01:16:00 -
[55]
Run Eve in a window and open the Magnifier program at: Start>Programs>Accessories>Ease of Access |
Jaabaa
Minmatar Dental Drilling Corporation
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Posted - 2009.05.27 01:45:00 -
[56]
CCP added the "red - xx% above regional average" and "green - xx% below regional average" price warnings to the client (even if you are colour blind, you can still read the text).
You were scammed and, as you say "its my bad of course", you didn't count the zeros. -- EVE Mobile Skill Planner V3 !! http://evemsp.sourceforge.net/ |
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