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SleepingJocko
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Posted - 2009.05.26 08:17:00 -
[1]
I have been mission running with my trusty CNR for quite sometime now using the following fit-
Hi's - 7 CN Cruise launchers Mid's - 2 Pith B small shield boosters, CN shield boost amp and 3 assorted Pith B hardeners Lows - 3 CN BCUs and 2 T2 PDUs
3 Rigor Rigs
My questions are as follows-
1. Is it worth making the jump to using a Golem in terms of mission running speed as I like the idea of looting and salving in mission. 2. Is it feasible to transplant my existing fit onto a new Golem? If not, has anyone got any tried and tested fits? 3. Should I be looking at using Torps?
Any help and advice is very much appreciated.
Cheers
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Thirzarr
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Posted - 2009.05.26 08:23:00 -
[2]
Well, I would guess the ability to fit at least a painter - if not two - would make the golem FAR superior to your current fit. But thats just me.
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SleepingJocko
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Posted - 2009.05.26 08:38:00 -
[3]
What would you suggest the full mid-slot layout to be? |
SFX Bladerunner
Minmatar Black Serpent Technologies
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Posted - 2009.05.26 08:43:00 -
[4]
CNR is designed as a cruise boat Golem is designed as a torp boat
Golem will kill stuff faster and make it faster to loot+salvage too due to it's tractor bonus.. However a well set up faction fitted CNR is basically lvl4's on cruise control, you warp in, activate tank and pick off the rats one by one without really having to worry about anything at all.
In a golem you warp in, burn towards first target to within torp range, activate target painter(s) and start pwning it to hell. it will die FAST, so basically you are CONSTANTLY burning towards targets, putting target painter on em and torping em. Whilest doing that you ALSO constantly have to watch your NON-capstable shieldtank and burst it when necessary.
Basically golem is the 'hands on' approach that requires constant attention to what's going on. Granted a golem will do lvl4's faster than a CNR.. it's completly understandble that some pilots prefer to do their lvl4's hassle-free (including myself) and think the ability of being able to do them semi-sleeping or doing other stuff (like chatting, listening to music or even watching tv/movie) is a big enough + to warrant the isk/hour ratio being lower. |
Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2009.05.26 10:03:00 -
[5]
Depends what ammunition you are using. If you use T1 or T2 I would stick to CNR, if you use faction I would consider Golem.
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Giannamichaels
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Posted - 2009.05.26 10:12:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Giannamichaels on 26/05/2009 10:13:22 If you have the isk and for a short term investment you can sell the 2 small boosters you have and buy a gistum or pith medium booster which will also permarun.
Use 1 boost amp and 2 painters and 1 invul pref faction and the best 2 specific hardeners you can afford then fill the lows with faction bcus, using torps this ship owns.
Tech 2 siege are a must so you can use javelins and hit out to around 63k (skills and rigs) i use 1 tech 2 projection rig and 1 tech 2 flight time rig. I also use navy torps as they kill so quickly.
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Gallente Citizen2515145
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Posted - 2009.05.26 10:54:00 -
[7]
I would say to Golem tbh. Besides it'll be a nice change for you, not flying the same O thing all the time.....
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Khornne
Caldari Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.05.26 11:16:00 -
[8]
Less ammo usage, 40km tractors, 1200 m^3 cargo, easy to tank... Golem.
-- Khornne's Teamspeak and Ventrilo Server Service |
Kaivos
Pyydys
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Posted - 2009.05.26 11:41:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Kaivos on 26/05/2009 11:42:59 Edited by: Kaivos on 26/05/2009 11:42:35
Originally by: SFX Bladerunner so basically you are CONSTANTLY burning towards targets,
I don't know what are you talking about. I sit still with my torp golem. I basically only move if I need to get to another gate.
edit:: to OP. YES, you should get a torp golem.
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Nyea
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Posted - 2009.05.26 11:44:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Nyea on 26/05/2009 11:46:49 Low Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II x 3
Med Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster x 2 Racial Hardeners x 3 100MN Afterburner II Target Painter II
High Siege Missile Launcher II x 4 with javelin ammo Small Tractor Beam I Salvager II x 2
Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I
I have never looked back, you couldn't really ask for more.
You want the NPC's to always be in 40k range for tractoring mainly, I've never had an issue with range as I thought I would when I moved over from a cruise setup.
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Kaivos
Pyydys
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Posted - 2009.05.26 11:53:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Nyea Edited by: Nyea on 26/05/2009 11:46:49 Low Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II x 3
Med Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster x 2 Racial Hardeners x 3 100MN Afterburner II Target Painter II
High Siege Missile Launcher II x 4 with javelin ammo Small Tractor Beam I Salvager II x 2
Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I
I have never looked back, you couldn't really ask for more.
You want the NPC's to always be in 40k range for tractoring mainly, I've never had an issue with range as I thought I would when I moved over from a cruise setup.
Have you tried 2x tractors and 1x t2 salvager. I have found it to be faster.
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Nyea
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Posted - 2009.05.26 12:02:00 -
[12]
I only got the salvagers this morning
Will have a look, thanks for the heads up.
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Ryoji Tanakama
Caldari Firestar Drive Yards
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Posted - 2009.05.26 12:03:00 -
[13]
I've been flying a Golem since within a week of the first one being built.
It kicks the ass of the CNR for both DPS (torps or cruise... i prefer to use cruise for the range) and for tanking.
I can't remember my exact setup (I'm at work) but an XL A-Type is the shield booster of choice for a massive 3-hardener perma-tank with amplifier. You lose less DPS to defender missiles (the equations are on the forums somewhere) need 50% less ammo and hit much, much harder thanks to the painter bonus. You don't even need to use drones to take out NPC interceptors, though it will take a couple of volleys to pop anything going that fast.
I only ever use T1 ammo too - I'm cheap.
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Talio ZomB
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Posted - 2009.05.26 12:48:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Talio ZomB on 26/05/2009 12:49:13 This may be messy but I am at work :)
I had mission ran with a CNR since 2005, as soon as I got a golem I couldnt find any reason to go back to the CNR for missions, the results were better in the Golem.
I had tested cruise Golem and torp Golem vs cruise CNR and Torp CNR all using t2 and faction ammo.
my current fit is capable of the following 38km CN torps 1207dps inclusive of 5 t2 hobs 58km jav torps 1000+dps inclusive of the hobs again (I cant remeber the exact figure as I am at work atm) 374m/s 450+dps tank running 4 slot tank (I run 5 slot for AE bonus) 49.5% painter 3 40km tractors
There is 3 situation u will be burning towards enemies as u r out of range.
WC room 1.
Vengence room 3, even at that you only need to make up about 20km or less so takes no time.
As I recall all other lvl 4 missions wil have targets in range of at least the javs.
Cheaper to use CN and Jav ammo on a golem as 100% dmg bonus per torp, more bang per buck.
Damsel in Distress Angels Extravaganza Gursita Extravaganza Gone Berserk Pirate Invasion The Assault Recon 1 of 3 Enemies Abound Attack of the Drones Worlds Collide Duo of Death Gurista Spies Cargo Delivery
I dont see any reason for using cruise over torps for the above missions, your just taking longer. Also no lvl 4 spams enough defenders to stop torps. they will all hit their targets.
So that dps gain you might have using cruise vs cruisers, does that really exist all the time???
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Dracthera
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.26 12:48:00 -
[15]
I'd say go Golem. You already have a nice CNR setup, so it's not like you need something to run L4's. You can make tons of cash while you wait for those Golem skills to finish training, then you can purchase the new ship and transfer your existing mods to it.
As for this:
Originally by: SFX Bladerunner
In a golem you warp in, burn towards first target to within torp range, activate target painter(s) and start pwning it to hell. it will die FAST, so basically you are CONSTANTLY burning towards targets, putting target painter on em and torping em. Whilest doing that you ALSO constantly have to watch your NON-capstable shieldtank and burst it when necessary.
...it's one way to do things if you have an AB setup with XL boosters. Another way is to pull targets with your painters so they come to you, then kill them. You can definitely have a cap-stable shield tank setup on your Golem. The point of the ship bonus is that you don't have to lug around a giant SB when a medium will do nicely. Here's the top-rated setup off Battleclinic. I'm using something slightly different myself, but this'll do.
[Golem, Golem that actually has TP's] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Cap Recharger II Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster Target Painter II Target Painter II
Siege Missile Launcher II Siege Missile Launcher II Siege Missile Launcher II Siege Missile Launcher II Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I
Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I
Apto Quod Ususfructus |
Talio ZomB
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Posted - 2009.05.26 12:50:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Dracthera I'd say go Golem. You already have a nice CNR setup, so it's not like you need something to run L4's. You can make tons of cash while you wait for those Golem skills to finish training, then you can purchase the new ship and transfer your existing mods to it.
As for this:
Originally by: SFX Bladerunner
In a golem you warp in, burn towards first target to within torp range, activate target painter(s) and start pwning it to hell. it will die FAST, so basically you are CONSTANTLY burning towards targets, putting target painter on em and torping em. Whilest doing that you ALSO constantly have to watch your NON-capstable shieldtank and burst it when necessary.
...it's one way to do things if you have an AB setup with XL boosters. Another way is to pull targets with your painters so they come to you, then kill them. You can definitely have a cap-stable shield tank setup on your Golem. The point of the ship bonus is that you don't have to lug around a giant SB when a medium will do nicely. Here's the top-rated setup off Battleclinic. I'm using something slightly different myself, but this'll do.
[Golem, Golem that actually has TP's] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Cap Recharger II Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster Target Painter II Target Painter II
Siege Missile Launcher II Siege Missile Launcher II Siege Missile Launcher II Siege Missile Launcher II Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I
Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I
love your focus for dps
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SleepingJocko
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Posted - 2009.05.26 13:32:00 -
[17]
Thanks for the feedback guys. Golem looks to be the way forward. I should have enough time to make the iskies to buy the ship and fit it out with modules that are not common between the two. I think the CNR will find its way into my 'Favourite Ships' museum in Emolgranlan.
Thanks again.
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Ice Moon
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Posted - 2009.05.26 13:36:00 -
[18]
I also ran missions with a cruise CNR for many months.
The torp Golem is superior on average, in my experience, if:
- you have T2 torp skills - you work on all possible skills for max range (I have > 50k with Javelins with skills maxed, but don't have the extra-posh missile range rigs / implants so you can probably do a bit better) - your drone skills are good - you care about loot and salvage
With a Golem, I loot / slavage missions (while trolleying NPCs) which I would not have previously bothered to do with a dedicated salvage bucket. Hence, income increases for no net increase in time.
I run a (relatively speaking) Ghetto fit:
- 4x Seige IIs, Javelins - either 1x Tractor, 2x Salvager, or vice versa
- 4x Shield Hardener IIs - 1x Afterburner II - 1x Medium Shield Booster II - 1x PWNAGE
- 4x BCU IIs
- 2 (different) missile range rigs
I have good support skills.
Just my 2 ISK!
Ice
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2009.05.26 14:48:00 -
[19]
CNR for low sec and 0.0 where looting and salvaging isnt 'misison critical', golem for high sec.
reasons are cost and bonuses.
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FT Diomedes
Gallente Factio Paucorum
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Posted - 2009.05.26 15:10:00 -
[20]
Originally by: SleepingJocko I have been mission running with my trusty CNR for quite sometime now using the following fit-
Hi's - 7 CN Cruise launchers Mid's - 2 Pith B small shield boosters, CN shield boost amp and 3 assorted Pith B hardeners Lows - 3 CN BCUs and 2 T2 PDUs
3 Rigor Rigs
My questions are as follows-
1. Is it worth making the jump to using a Golem in terms of mission running speed as I like the idea of looting and salving in mission. 2. Is it feasible to transplant my existing fit onto a new Golem? If not, has anyone got any tried and tested fits? 3. Should I be looking at using Torps?
Any help and advice is very much appreciated.
Cheers
1. Yes. 2. Mostly 3. Yes - for those missions where Torps are not ideal, use a Nighthawk
This fit works very well for me:
[Golem, L's Golem - Kin/Therm copy 1] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Damage Control II
Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier II Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Invulnerability Field II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Salvager I
Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I
Hammerhead II x5
It could use some more pimping - e.g. T2 rigs and some better shield mods - but it works very well on missions with lots of BSs.
...this doesn't even seem to be a regular case of rats fleeing the sinking ship. Seems more like the rats are on fire, the ship is on fire, and the sea is full of drunk Russians. - Jacob Etienne |
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Arcadia1701
Gallente Sky Fortress
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Posted - 2009.05.26 23:15:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Arcadia1701 on 26/05/2009 23:20:22 Edited by: Arcadia1701 on 26/05/2009 23:19:42 Cruise Missile Launcher II Cruise Missile Launcher II Cruise Missile Launcher II Cruise Missile Launcher II Salvager Salvager Tractor beam
Pith A type X-Large Shield booster OR Caldari navy X-large SB if ur cheap. Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Pith A Type photon scattering Field
Caldari navy Ballistic Control System Caldari navy Ballistic Control System Power Diag II Power Diag II
2x Capacitor Control circuit II
The tank is pretty much un breakable , even when u pull an entire level 4 onto you, the cap is also infinate.
Also i DO NOT use torps, they suck hardcore, i often get missions with BS 51km - 75 KM orbit range, cruise missiles are FTW.
It is several times better than the CNR - its nearly AFK able in level 4s.
My sig>
Post with your main, or don't post at all. My Skills |
Dracthera
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.27 04:15:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Arcadia1701
Also i DO NOT use torps, they suck hardcore, i often get missions with BS 51km - 75 KM orbit range, torps cannot reach these = cruise missiles are FTW. Anyone that has posted a torp setup, either does not fly a golem, or does not solo there level 4s.
Just because you don't use torps on your Golem doesn't mean others don't use them with great effectiveness to those ranges you quoted. I'm not sure which rats orbit at 75km - never seen such a thing - but for the rats that orbit at less than 60km (which is ALL of them) Javelin torps with range rigs work quite well.
So in your opinion all those people who mention torp Golems in this thread and in many, many others are simply blowing smoke and aren't actually using those setups?!? All those torp Golem loadouts on Battleclinic that are at the top of the ratings are just imaginary?!? LOL! Hardly!
Apto Quod Ususfructus |
Tanith YarnDemon
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Posted - 2009.05.27 05:04:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Dracthera
Originally by: Arcadia1701
Also i DO NOT use torps, they suck hardcore, i often get missions with BS 51km - 75 KM orbit range, torps cannot reach these = cruise missiles are FTW. Anyone that has posted a torp setup, either does not fly a golem, or does not solo there level 4s.
Just because you don't use torps on your Golem doesn't mean others don't use them with great effectiveness to those ranges you quoted. I'm not sure which rats orbit at 75km - never seen such a thing - but for the rats that orbit at less than 60km (which is ALL of them) Javelin torps with range rigs work quite well.
So in your opinion all those people who mention torp Golems in this thread and in many, many others are simply blowing smoke and aren't actually using those setups?!? All those torp Golem loadouts on Battleclinic that are at the top of the ratings are just imaginary?!? LOL! Hardly!
There are rats that orbit far outsidfe those 70km. There's even those that orbit at like 150km. That said, those npcs also tank and spew defenders enough to make a cruise golem rather useless - AND they spawn so closely a torp golem will have them decimated before they even get up to speed.
The problem here is ageold, there's a type of player that expects to be better at all areas and thus fails where it's required the most. You can compensate for a lack of defense with dps but you can't compensate lackluster dps with a pith X-type X-Large booster. There are really only two values that matter missions / hour and isk / hour, generally the first one will only matter in very special conditions involvig other players and standing or the LP shop and the rest of the time corelate with isk / hour.
I guess I might mention how I fly to make the point:
4x Siege Missile Launcher II <- You want javelin torps for those rare occasions you really need them. Hence no faction. 2x Tractor Beams 1x Salvager II <- t1 is obviously almost as good, but the 40% increase coupled with the level 5 salvaging skill... mmmh-mmm.
1x Caldari Navy X-large shield booster <- I don't have the skill for t2, and the fitting is just horrible on them. Deadspace boosters simply doesn't add anything. 1x Caldari Navy Invulnerability field <- This can be replaced by two hardeners for the harder missions, but you very very rarely need to. 1x Gist B-type 100Mn Afterburner <- Simply because it's costefficient. I got mine for 20 mil. 3x PWNAGE 1x Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster
4x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control Unit
2x Hydraulic Bay Thruster <- T2 if you feel like it t1 works but you will run into situations where t2 are beneficial.
With this setup I can run basically any mission in empire, only ones I havn't tested are the various faction ones - since they're simply not worth doing from a standing pov. I guess you could remove some more of the tank with implants and such, but I prioritize +5's over crystals.
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Dracthera
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.27 05:18:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Dracthera on 27/05/2009 05:22:56
Originally by: Tanith YarnDemon
There are rats that orbit far outsidfe those 70km. There's even those that orbit at like 150km.
In L4 missions?!? Please name some that orbit outside of 70km and out to 150km... I'm very curious now! There's some Guristas and Serpentis rats that orbit around 50-51km, but that's about as far as rat BSs go in missions.
Apto Quod Ususfructus |
Tanith YarnDemon
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Posted - 2009.05.27 05:23:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Dracthera
Originally by: Tanith YarnDemon
There are rats that orbit far outsidfe those 70km. There's even those that orbit at like 150km.
In L4 missions?!? Please name some that orbit outside of 70km and out to 150km... I'm very curious now!
First one to come to mind is Ratah Niaga in Covering your tracks. IIRC there's one in one of the vengeance variants aswell.
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Dracthera
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.27 05:27:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Tanith YarnDemon
Originally by: Dracthera
Originally by: Tanith YarnDemon
There are rats that orbit far outsidfe those 70km. There's even those that orbit at like 150km.
In L4 missions?!? Please name some that orbit outside of 70km and out to 150km... I'm very curious now!
First one to come to mind is Ratah Niaga in Covering your tracks. IIRC there's one in one of the vengeance variants aswell.
Interesting. Never heard of that one. Storyline?
Apto Quod Ususfructus |
Kaivos
Pyydys
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Posted - 2009.05.27 06:25:00 -
[27]
Any of you use 2xships in mission. I used dominix to aid my golem yesterday with sentry drones. That kicked ass.
But today I had even better idea. CNR with fof missiles! Any idea how many sentrys you can get with CNR?
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RedeyeAce
Caldari Faulcon de Lazy
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Posted - 2009.05.27 09:27:00 -
[28]
TBH ( im about to commit eve sacrilige now)I thought that the golly had too much dps in the normal configurations, so it dropped it by slightly to fit more usefull things.
[Golem, New Setup 1] True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay Expanded Cargohold II Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
100MN Afterburner II Invulnerability Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier II Ballistic Deflection Field II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Caldari Navy Large Shield Booster
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I
Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I
Ogre II x2 Hammerhead II x2 Hobgoblin II x1
if its a big mish change to 2x primary and 1x secondary hard, but u wont need to in most situations
Red
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O'olish Amaneh
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Posted - 2009.05.27 09:56:00 -
[29]
Originally by: SleepingJocko I have been mission running with my trusty CNR for quite sometime now using the following fit-
Hi's - 7 CN Cruise launchers Mid's - 2 Pith B small shield boosters, CN shield boost amp and 3 assorted Pith B hardeners Lows - 3 CN BCUs and 2 T2 PDUs
3 Rigor Rigs
My questions are as follows-
1. Is it worth making the jump to using a Golem in terms of mission running speed as I like the idea of looting and salving in mission. 2. Is it feasible to transplant my existing fit onto a new Golem? If not, has anyone got any tried and tested fits? 3. Should I be looking at using Torps?
Any help and advice is very much appreciated.
Cheers
1. Yes mission speed goes up with the golem, a lot compared to CNR; 2. Yes you can but fit a TP as the golem has a bonus for it and with good skills you can 1 shot cruisers and BCs with torps; 3. Yes with good skills, an implant and rigs my T1 torps have 43km range.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.05.27 12:41:00 -
[30]
After I pimped out my nightmare I swapped out the tanking mods to see what they would do to my trusty old Golem. The free slots both medium and low ment I could put in a full rack of bcs and two target painters. The results were stunning if you want a great ship to kill and salvage at the same time. Only a max skill nightmare is going to run missions faster and even then thats using the nightmares superior range to blast through and not stop to salvage which is why I retired the golem in the first place. For someone who does want to salvage as he goes this is as good as it gets for an all races mission ship though the pally is pretty damn close with top skills.
[Golem, Jack of all races] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Core B-Type 100MN Afterburner Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Gist X-Type Heat Dissipation Field Gist X-Type Ballistic Deflection Field
Caldari Navy Siege Missile Launcher, Juggernaut Torpedo Caldari Navy Siege Missile Launcher, Juggernaut Torpedo Caldari Navy Siege Missile Launcher, Juggernaut Torpedo Caldari Navy Siege Missile Launcher, Juggernaut Torpedo Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Small Tractor Beam I
Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II
Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5
Originally by: Fifinella As to trying to scare me with 0.0/lowsec, well,..... I've been there, and wasn't very scared at all. Only a little.
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