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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Max Tux
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Posted - 2009.05.26 15:19:00 -
[1]
from what i can see, people want level 4's moved to low sec mainly so they can have more people to kill, they will not be good fights they will mainly be ganks.
this is a poor excuse to want to change the main income on many players, maybe reduce the loot drops, yes,but the idea of forcing people into low sec won't work.
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Valandril
Caldari Ex-Mortis
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Posted - 2009.05.26 15:25:00 -
[2]
Your abilit to read fails, ppl want them moved to lowsec because they are biggest income available in eve and they come without any risk. Signature graphics that may only contain your character name, corporation logo, corporation or personal slogan or other text that is directly related to your in-game persona, or content directly related to Eve Online. All content must be in good taste.Applebabe |
Karentaki
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.05.26 15:28:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Valandril Your abilit to read fails, ppl want them moved to lowsec because they are biggest income available in eve and they come without any risk.
This! They can give as much ISK per hour as 0.0 ratting with none of the risk.
Quote:
EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
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craig0ss
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Posted - 2009.05.26 15:34:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Max Tux from what i can see, people want level 4's moved to low sec mainly so they can have more people to kill, they will not be good fights they will mainly be ganks.
this is a poor excuse to want to change the main income on many [farmers], maybe reduce the loot drops, yes,but the idea of forcing people into low sec won't work.
Fixed that for ya ;)
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Max Tux
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Posted - 2009.05.26 15:42:00 -
[5]
ok even if you say the reason is to increase risk, many people won't want to risk their pimped out mission ships and therefor will start doing level 3's instead, and the actual amount you earn is very over exaggerated, i make about 20 mill an hour using 2 accounts ( one to salvage) what people assume is they see figures of 40 million isk from some of the larger missions, and read the time taken to blitz missions, and put them together and get a scewed view on missioning, as the blitz for most missions involves not needing to kill anything or even just 1 ship, this gets them a very low amount of isk for the mission
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Jack Gilligan
Dragon's Rage Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.05.26 15:53:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Max Tux from what i can see, people want level 4's moved to low sec mainly so they can have more people to kill, they will not be good fights they will mainly be ganks.
this is a poor excuse to want to change the main income on many players, maybe reduce the loot drops, yes,but the idea of forcing people into low sec won't work.
If they move them to .4 people will just run L3's. I'd rather see a big buff to lowsec space to entice people there than a deliberate nerf designed to discourage people from highsec. Missions ran in lowsec should have MUCH higher bounties and payouts than they do in highsec, and the rats should be better.
There is more risk in lowsec than even in 0.0, and the reward should reflect that, at least making it on par with 0.0.
--- My opinions are my own and do not necessarily represent those of my corp or alliance. |
Lear Hepburn
Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent
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Posted - 2009.05.26 15:57:00 -
[7]
So run L3s. Your income will drop relative to those who take the risks, which is what Eve is supposed to be about.
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Whineroy
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Posted - 2009.05.26 16:05:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Whineroy on 26/05/2009 16:06:58
Originally by: Lear Hepburn So run L3s. Your income will drop relative to those who take the risks, which is what Eve is supposed to be about.
Risks ? Like people who sell GTCs/PLEXes take risks with their income ? Or like all the alt- users take incredible risks by using untraceable alts for scams, corp theft, suicide ganking and similar ? Or like all the killmail- w***ing ganker nerds take risks killing PvE- fitted ships with PvP- fitted ships ? Oh please, cut that "risk and reward" crap already.
L4 mission risk/reward definitely does need adjustment, no denying that, however the issue is very complex (like has been proven by several well-thought out posts that some people seem to ignore over and over). Anyone saying that the L4 risk/reward problem can be fixed simply by moving them to lowsec is either a hypocritical moron or a moronic hypocrite.
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Anubis Xian
Reavers
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Posted - 2009.05.26 16:09:00 -
[9]
I don't even know why people play this game to do missions.
Navy Faction gear and ships should be rewards for Faction Warfare.
The only thing a mission should get you is boredom.
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
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Lear Hepburn
Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent
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Posted - 2009.05.26 16:17:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Whineroy Edited by: Whineroy on 26/05/2009 16:06:58
Originally by: Lear Hepburn So run L3s. Your income will drop relative to those who take the risks, which is what Eve is supposed to be about.
Risks ? Like people who sell GTCs/PLEXes take risks with their income ? Or like all the alt- users take incredible risks by using untraceable alts for scams, corp theft, suicide ganking and similar ? Or like all the killmail- w***ing ganker nerds take risks killing PvE- fitted ships with PvP- fitted ships ? Oh please, cut that "risk and reward" crap already.
L4 mission risk/reward definitely does need adjustment, no denying that, however the issue is very complex (like has been proven by several well-thought out posts that some people seem to ignore over and over). Anyone saying that the L4 risk/reward problem can be fixed simply by moving them to lowsec is either a hypocritical moron or a moronic hypocrite.
Wow, you sound upset. Maybe take a few deep breaths before posting next time, and a few less personal attacks and people might start to respond to you civilly, like I'm taking the patience to do...
My response was aimed at those who said that people would just start to run level 3 missions, it wasn't an indication that I think that moving 4's to losec is a good or bad idea. I was basically saying that I don't think they would as they'd want the income. Maybe you should link for discussion a few of these "well thought-out posts" you mention rather than ranting.
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Hariya
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Posted - 2009.05.26 17:07:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Karentaki This! They can give as much ISK per hour as 0.0 ratting with none of the risk.
Yes the rate with which they drop faction items is so great (not)
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Valandril
Caldari Ex-Mortis
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Posted - 2009.05.26 17:22:00 -
[12]
Like in 0.0 you get good faction worth item every 10 minutes (i've been ratting for half year and nothing that was actualy worth selling from faction stuff). And lvl4s don't generate great money ? My low sp raven char (caldari battleship3, missile skills3) makes about ~25m/h from just bountys. Add loot + salvage and you are somewhat around doubling it. I'm sorry but even having -1.0 system for your own ratting purposes will have trouble topping that income and you are still "to be killed". If they will downgrade to lvl3, as it was already pointed - fine with me because they will have a lot less reward (bigger reward but with risk awaits in lowsec/0.0 lvl4 missions). It's theyr choice. Signature graphics that may only contain your character name, corporation logo, corporation or personal slogan or other text that is directly related to your in-game persona, or content directly related to Eve Online. All content must be in good taste.Applebabe |
Rhinanna
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.26 18:14:00 -
[13]
[sarcasm]Yeah lets move Lvl4s to low-sec cos the reward outweights the risk[/sarcasm]
I take it you are planning on banning hi-sec trading then? Possibly the most quickest and most risk-free way of making isk? What about hi-sec plex running? Just as profitable as lvl 4s really. Oh lets not forget scamming, risk free and massive ISK and you can do it while doing missions or plexing or pvp.
The problem with low-sec missions and why no-one does them is because they will NEVER be worth the risk, they would need to increase the rewards and bounties 5 times over to be worth it. Why? Cos if a pirate warps in while your engaged with a full pocket of rats you are dead. If low-sec is to become more popular it needs there to be a challenge to pirating not just gate camping and attacking people mid mission who can't fight back.
Options - 1: All missions in low sec set off an alarm when anyone uses a Accel gate that everyone in the deadspace complex can see to give the mission runner a chance to escape (still practically none if scrammed) 2: Make all additional entrants to any deadspace complex cause a respawn of half the origional amount of ships in the pocket, this would only happen once per player, the extra ships would automatically agro the new entrant and despawn if they leave. The same ships (with same damage - repairs over time) would respawn if/when they enter that pocket again.
In addition make missions MORE valuable in low-sec (not less in high sec) and make gate guns powerful enough that gate camping is actually a challenge. Low sec is meant to be LESS secure than hi-sec, not a death trap! :)
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Izo Alabaster
Friendly Neighbourhood Extortion Company
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Posted - 2009.05.26 18:34:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Max Tux From what I can see, people want level 4's moved to low sec mainly so they can have more people to kill. They will not be good fights they will mainly be ganks.
This is a poor excuse to want to change the main income on many players. Maybe reduce the loot drops, yes,but the idea of forcing people into low sec won't work.
(edited grammar by Izo)
No sir, I wish for lvl 4 missions to be moved to lowsec/0.0 so that it creates a more player versus player driven economy. (Note, I don't mean a combat driven economy, I mean that people should actually have to compete for the resources, riches, and wealth that they acquire).
This already takes place in asteroid belts, since the belts only produce a set amount of isk per day, and once they're mined out, they're gone for awhile. This creates competition between the miners, which is a good thing to have. Lvl 4 missions have no competition, because there are an infinite amount of them, always spawning out in space for people to simply warp to, and collect with almost no risk.
Currently, a vast amount of wealth can be accrued by running lvl 4 missions nonstop. It's tedious, but it works and worst of all, it doesn't involve actually having to compete/intereact with other people in order to gain that wealth. It's just a bunch of $$$ sitting out in space that you go collect, without anyone else having a chance to collect it, and there's an INFINITE amount of it.
I think maybe there should be a maximum amount of lvl 4 missions you can run per day, per agent... Like 3.
This would decrease mission farming, and help encourage a player created and driven economy that relies on players competing with each other for riches, rather than just heading into space and collecting bags of money that are lvl 4 missions.
It's an MMO. There should be competition for success in the game, which would create a more deserved sense of gratification when you succeed.
Originally by: CCP Nozh Are BS useless in solo combat? The larger ship still has many benefits: * Can fit smaller weapons to fend off smaller targets * More slots allow EW counter measures
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Valandril
Caldari Ex-Mortis
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Posted - 2009.05.26 18:52:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Rhinanna I take it you are planning on banning hi-sec trading then? Possibly the most quickest and most risk-free way of making isk? What about hi-sec plex running? Just as profitable as lvl 4s really. Oh lets not forget scamming, risk free and massive ISK and you can do it while doing missions or plexing or pvp.
You know what makes all those activities (beside plexing) different from lvl4s ? You don't grind that money out of nowhere but from other players by outsmarting them. Also trading is risk free ? Good one. Signature graphics that may only contain your character name, corporation logo, corporation or personal slogan or other text that is directly related to your in-game persona, or content directly related to Eve Online. All content must be in good taste.Applebabe |
Izo Alabaster
Friendly Neighbourhood Extortion Company
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Posted - 2009.05.26 19:00:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Rhinanna
Options - 1: All missions in low sec set off an alarm when anyone uses a Accel gate that everyone in the deadspace complex can see to give the mission runner a chance to escape (still practically none if scrammed) 2: Make all additional entrants to any deadspace complex cause a respawn of half the origional amount of ships in the pocket, this would only happen once per player, the extra ships would automatically agro the new entrant and despawn if they leave. The same ships (with same damage - repairs over time) would respawn if/when they enter that pocket again.
Reg: 1. There already is an alarm. In fact, there's 3 of them. It's called an OVERVIEW, a SCANNER, and LOCAL. Either one can be used to detect hostile ships nearby. Used in conjunction, they can almost certainly detect any nearby hostile ships with almost 100% certainty.
Reg: 2. Oh yes, please implement this, CCP! I'd love to warp my alt's heavily tanked drake in and out of a mission a few dozen times while my main in a heavy DPS fitted battleship racks up the kills on the respawning rats. I could make billions!
Originally by: CCP Nozh Are BS useless in solo combat? The larger ship still has many benefits: * Can fit smaller weapons to fend off smaller targets * More slots allow EW counter measures
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.05.26 19:02:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Karentaki
Originally by: Valandril Your abilit to read fails, ppl want them moved to lowsec because they are biggest income available in eve and they come without any risk.
This! They can give as much ISK per hour as 0.0 ratting with none of the risk.
To put it right:
If you compare the worst ratting in 0.0, done with a PVP ship, to the best mission in high sec done with a specialized ship, the mission runner get more isk. If he has maximized social skills, included the connection skills.
Note that the ratter need only some million SP and only in combat related skills.
It is really incomprehensible how a guy with some teens of million SP in the missioning skills and a specialized ship worth a billion will be making more isk that a guy with a ship worth one hundred millions and 4-5 millions SP.
naturally then you are discarding all the other rewards of 0.0 (i.e. moon mining and exploration).
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Fon Revedhort
Monks of War United Legion
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Posted - 2009.05.26 19:02:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 26/05/2009 19:06:04 Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 26/05/2009 19:04:59
Originally by: Rhinanna stuff
you have no clue.
you can never make gate camping 'challenging', that way you'll just encourage more blobbing on the gates or low sec gates will end up being hi sec ones with concord-like ships/sentries.
And your suggestions on low sec missions are just lol. May be instead they just should give out free isk to anyone entering low sec? The inability of carebears to fit a decent setup is their own fault. How exactly can you expect a CCC-rigged stupidity with gazillion cap recharges fight against any intellegent ship? Sure thing you're bound to die. And if you're getting ganked by 2+ ships... uh, well, nothing can help you here and nothing should.
Rewards on running lvl 4 in lowsec are to be higher than they are now (I'd say extra 25%) and those in high sec are to be lower no matter what. That's evident really.
Any (isk-farming) activity in EVE is nowadays compared with high-sec mission running in terms of isk/hour ratio. It's just stupid. ---
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Kuuijn
PROGENITOR CORPORATION Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.05.26 19:04:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Rhinanna The problem with low-sec missions and why no-one does them is because they will NEVER be worth the risk, they would need to increase the rewards and bounties 5 times over to be worth it. Why? Cos if a pirate warps in while your engaged with a full pocket of rats you are dead. If low-sec is to become more popular it needs there to be a challenge to pirating not just gate camping and attacking people mid mission who can't fight back.
This. Lowsec mission running is not risk. Its suicide. Pirates want lvl 4 missions moved to lowsec because they don't like targets that can shoot back.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.05.26 19:08:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 26/05/2009 19:07:56 wrong
my former corp ran missions in a low sec pocket system without problems. Just setup up a working intel then its no problem anymore... But wait, it would require some inter-human communication??? oohhh nnooeeesssss
Seriously, Lvl4 missions have to go away or at least get reduced payouts/rewards, there should be no method for grinding that huge amounts of ISK only via F1-F8.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.05.26 19:08:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Karentaki
Originally by: Valandril Your abilit to read fails, ppl want them moved to lowsec because they are biggest income available in eve and they come without any risk.
This! They can give as much ISK per hour as 0.0 ratting with none of the risk.
There is risk in 0.0 ratting? -------- Ideas for: Mining
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Darzokun
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Posted - 2009.05.26 19:09:00 -
[22]
People Whine to much mission running is dull the money is ok but you can make more outside of high sec if your willing to take the risk.
The only people who care are the pirate`s who are just looking for more people to gank if it was to happen they would only then whine about level 3 missions or that a few mission runners gang up counter gank them.
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Typhado3
Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.05.26 22:35:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Typhado3 on 26/05/2009 22:36:41
Originally by: Valandril Your abilit to read fails, ppl want them moved to lowsec because they are biggest income available in eve and they come without any risk.
This. I've spent plenty of time doing both, right now reward in 0.0 will be usually lower than lvl 4 rewards unless you have been ratting in the system for about 4 hours already and built the spawns up to all triple 1+ mil bs spawns (when you do this you get no faction spawns). Now you just have to hope no hostiles come in and pop em off and you can start making better than the average lvl 4's.
Even with all this you'll find most systems can only have 1 or 2 people per system and most systems can't be used as they have too high trafic. Go to a place like motsu and you'll find how many people all feeding off a single agent? having one of the best easy sources of income placed in the middle of highsec with an unlimited supply is just bad for the game.
EDIT: for reference I don't agree with moving lvl 4's to low sec it seems an oversimplified solution to the problem. But putting up a redicilous straw man argument like this deserved a response.
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ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
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Morikai Acler
Caldari Demon Theory Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.05.26 22:39:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Karentaki
Originally by: Valandril Your abilit to read fails, ppl want them moved to lowsec because they are biggest income available in eve and they come without any risk.
This! They can give as much ISK per hour as 0.0 ratting with none of the risk.
Yeah, not much risk in the missions these days. They've become wussified since they put in the wave spawn triggers. GE and AE use to be challenging, same for most of the rogue drone missions and those EOM missions. Least back in the days if you didn't have help or at least a capable tank on your ship then you stood a good chance of losing if you took one of them.
Cold hard reality is that you actually do make more money out in 0.0, especially if you're a skilled prober. Hit a good 10/10 or 8/10 and can easily make a couple bil for a couple hours of fun.
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lou shuo
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Posted - 2009.05.27 00:55:00 -
[25]
well there already are level 4s in low sec, and you cant just say oh i cant make as much money as someone else becease i decided to pvp so much i cant get into highsec anymore and i dont want to grind rats or low sec misssions to get back up into the "care bear" money shaker. really why does all the world have to accomidate you god forsaking pvp`ers all frickin year long. if you want a game with pure 100% beyond any doubt or shadow player murdering game why have npc`s? truely why not just have missions to kill other people instead, i like my low sec and my high sec but i refuse to have anyone else decide for me which i will be in to do what i god darn well want to do today.
if you cant stand the assumed lower isk from low sec or null sec maybe consider getting out of it and back to high sec not all people that fly in high sec happen to be care bears and there are different degrees of care bears thank you very much.
you people remind me of wow players that say oh you tolk my insta win button away thats not allowed geez grow the hell up or adapt and over come already getting tired of this, i`m 16 and ****ed at the world!! i didnt get a horse and car for each year i was born on my birthday BS.
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OzDeaDMeaT
Gallente The Goodies
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Posted - 2009.05.27 03:16:00 -
[26]
If they doubled the pay day and halved the difficulty i would do lvl4 missions in low sec exclusively. Eve-au.com News Reporter |
Herzog Wolfhammer
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Posted - 2009.05.27 05:33:00 -
[27]
I think the people complaining about lvl 4 missions were the same ones who cried in their beers over "Warp to 0".
Whatsamatter, gank and blob warfare not paying enough? Learn some real playing skills.
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Lear Hepburn
Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent
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Posted - 2009.05.27 06:03:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer I think the people complaining about lvl 4 missions were the same ones who cried in their beers over "Warp to 0".
Whatsamatter, gank and blob warfare not paying enough? Learn some real playing skills.
What, PvE? Seriously?
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CCP Applebabe
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Posted - 2009.05.27 06:42:00 -
[29]
Moved to " General Discussion ".
Applebabe Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us |
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2009.05.27 07:08:00 -
[30]
Given how incredibly easy it is to just open the map and find the location of these LVL 4 agents, and how easy it is to probe people out in missions. I'd say that moving LVL 4s to low-sec would skew risk vs. rewards just as much, only in favor of the low-sec pirates.
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