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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
314
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Posted - 2012.05.12 17:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
is it true that wormholes when formed, don't actually open the other side until they're jumped through or are both sides open on forming?
can somebody explain how wormhole formation works regarding entry and exit on forming. |
Hayaishi
Aperture Harmonics K162
113
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 18:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Miilla wrote:is it true that wormholes when formed, don't actually open the other side until they're jumped through or are both sides open on forming?
can somebody explain how wormhole formation works regarding entry and exit on forming.
I'm sure it's documented somewhere. I know it, but wont tell you. |
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
53
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 18:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
They open when warped to.
Think both sides open, I've had people come through wormholes I only spawned but never jumped through.
If they didn't, that would seem a bit weird. |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
314
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 18:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Hayaishi wrote:Miilla wrote:is it true that wormholes when formed, don't actually open the other side until they're jumped through or are both sides open on forming?
can somebody explain how wormhole formation works regarding entry and exit on forming. I'm sure it's documented somewhere. I know it, but wont tell you.
Fine, then if its true, why wouldn't both ends open on forming? Won't that make W-space too safe for those inhabiting it? ( I am currently habiting W-space :) )
I feel both ends should be opened (connected) once formed and thus the people inside the W-space cannot control their safety by "not opening" the newly formed Wormhole.
It sounds like Easy mode to me in W-space. |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
314
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Posted - 2012.05.12 18:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Pohbis wrote:They open when warped to.
Think both sides open, I've had people come through wormholes I only spawned but never jumped through.
If they didn't, that would seem a bit weird.
But both sides are findable (scanable)? Why wouldn't they open regardless if whether we warped to them or not? I say just open both sides on forming and have it done with. I was told today that they ensure their safety in W-space by "keeping the wormhole closed" - ie., not warping to it. So it is too easy to manipulate Wspace for ones own safety. |
NickyYo
StarHug
73
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 18:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Miilla wrote:is it true that wormholes when formed, don't actually open the other side until they're jumped through or are both sides open on forming?
can somebody explain how wormhole formation works regarding entry and exit on forming.
hmm how can you say wormhole are too easy/safe when you don't even know how they work? Wormholes can open anywhere and do NOT need to be jumped through to be activated.. |
TriadSte
3rd Division
82
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 18:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
W-Space is not easy mode. Far from it.....W-Space is Eve hard mode.
Indeed when your new exit spawns it only opens when you initiate warp to it so in that respect yes your safe from intruders incoming from that hole.
However there are always incoming wormholes spawning into your system, with no local you have no idea if anyone is there....cloaked....waiting.
The only way to make sure you are safe is to have scouts on all wormholes in system. If anyone comes in you'll know about it.
|
Lady Starfire
State War Academy Caldari State
29
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 18:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
Wormholes are systems that stay their they do not go in and out of existence. The holes to them exist on both sides. |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
314
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 18:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
NickyYo wrote:Miilla wrote:is it true that wormholes when formed, don't actually open the other side until they're jumped through or are both sides open on forming?
can somebody explain how wormhole formation works regarding entry and exit on forming. hmm how can you say wormhole are too easy/safe when you don't even know how they work? Wormholes can open anywhere and do NOT need to be jumped through to be activated..
I am living in one right now but was supprised to hear that a corp inside it can CONTROL their safety by keeping a newly spawned wormhole CLOSED. To me that is EASY mode by ensuring they are safe.
Why would they need the ability to keep a wormhole closed? Surely the wormhole mechanics should be out of player CONTROL, but apparently it is not. |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
314
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 18:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lady Starfire wrote:Wormholes are systems that stay there they do not go in and out of existence. The holes to them exist on both sides.
Duh. |
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Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
107
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 18:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
does anyone understand what the gripe is here? doesn't seem that important of an issue for to me. as far as safety goes there are far greater things to worry about in WH space than whether the hole opened on both sides or not. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
314
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 18:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Barbara Nichole wrote:does anyone understand what the gripe is here? doesn't seem that important of an issue for to me. as far as safety goes there are far greater things to worry about in WH space than whether the hole opened on both sides or not.
Just wondering because it sounded like the inhabitant of a WH has the ABILITY to control the wormhole by "not warping to it" , ie., keeping it closed. They said to me that makes them safe. Wormholes shouldn't be safe.
I am in a C2 right now and have been for a while, and it is next to EMPTY , nobody comes in nor out, they said they controlled the newly spawned W-space C4 connection wormhole by "keeping it closed"..
Well, that seems to make them feel safer... I am just asking why occupiers in W-space would need the game mechanic to have the ability to control their safety by "not warping to" a newly formed w-hole.
I thought W-space was suppost to be the MOST DANGERIOUS place, i am finding it the safest place in Eve. I am often AFK in W-space and surin tthese forums without fear of being in danger lol. This W-system is my personal region taxi :) |
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
53
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 18:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
Miilla wrote:I am living in one right now but was supprised to hear that a corp inside it can CONTROL their safety by keeping a newly spawned wormhole CLOSED. To me that is EASY mode by ensuring they are safe.
Why would they need the ability to keep a wormhole closed? Surely the wormhole mechanics should be out of player CONTROL, but apparently it is not. Please continue thinking you are safe 'cause you keep your static from spawning |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
314
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 18:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
Pohbis wrote:Miilla wrote:I am living in one right now but was supprised to hear that a corp inside it can CONTROL their safety by keeping a newly spawned wormhole CLOSED. To me that is EASY mode by ensuring they are safe.
Why would they need the ability to keep a wormhole closed? Surely the wormhole mechanics should be out of player CONTROL, but apparently it is not. Please continue thinking you are safe 'cause you keep your static from spawning
Funny, I don't have to think i'm safe, I've been in W for weeks now and am now, It isnt me who said I feel safe, it is the corps inside saying theyre safer because they keep the spawned WH closed. Just asking why this is the case and why it is needed in the game. To me it goes against what W-space was sold as. DANGERIOUS!
Just wondering what this "keeping the Wormhole closed" idiocy is about. |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
314
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 18:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
So, on a newly formed Wormhole, what does Warping to a newly formed WH actually do, mechanics wise to it and what happens when a newly formed WH is not warped to? can sombody explain the difference in WH game effect? |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
402
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 19:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
New wormhole is formed is a system, but the exit in some other system is only visible when someone actually warps to the entrance first.
And I haven't tried out this part myself, but supposedly just activating warp to the entrance and cancelling it already makes the exit appear. Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors! |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
314
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 19:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
Tobiaz wrote:New wormhole is formed is a system, but the exit in some other system is only visible when someone actually warps to the entrance first.
And I haven't tried out this part myself, but supposedly just activating warp to the entrance and cancelling it already makes the exit appear.
Yeah i just read the evlopedia entry, its called "pushing". Im off to "push" this C4 into existance that this corp doesn't want "opened" :)
From what I read, so basically it is stable probably indefinitely until its "pushed". I still don't like this concept and it makes W-space maybe too controllable by the inhabitant. |
Selinate
860
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 19:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
any random amount of wormholes can spawn in a wh system at any given time to anywhere in the universe. The static is not typically the only wh that opens.
Nice try at trolling. |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
314
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 19:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
Selinate wrote:any random amount of wormholes can spawn in a wh system at any given time to anywhere in the universe. The static is not typically the only wh that opens.
Yes I know this, and always at least one per W-space system, I was just supprised that a corp inside it felt they could "control" the newly formed wormholes and thus, by effect, raise their level of safety a tad.
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ISD Grossvogel
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
94
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 19:26:00 -
[20] - Quote
Thread moved from General Discussion GÇö or should I say "Thread moved to W-space"? ISD Grossvogel (ISD -ô-Ç-+-ü-ü-ä-+-¦-¦-+-î) Captain, Community Communication Liaisons (CCL) -Æ-+-+-+-+-é-æ-Ç -¦-Ç-â-+-+-ï -+-+ -¦-+-¦-+-+-+-¦-¦-¦-ü-é-¦-+-Ä -ü -+-¦-Ç-+-¦-¦-+-+ Interstellar Services Department |
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
773
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 19:27:00 -
[21] - Quote
I got around 3 bil from camping a WH 1 jump to highsec from a single player with a few alts. I think he would take issue with the whole WH are safe thing...
For myself, there have been several instances when I jumped from low sec into a WH and there were a few friendly guys waiting for me who podded me back to where I came from. I don't feel very safe in a WH either.
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Frau Leinsmarch
Merchants Trade Consortium The Last Chancers.
29
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Posted - 2012.05.12 19:53:00 -
[22] - Quote
If you think your hole is safe then I have this to say:
LOLOLOLOLOLLLOLLOLLLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLLLOLOLOL
Also..
Thanks for the KMs xD |
Bernie Nator
Talocan Hive Talocan United
277
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 19:53:00 -
[23] - Quote
Just because your static is controlled and shut doesn't mean you are safe. If someone wants into your wormhole, they will find a way, either via a logged off scanner alt or just cycling their hole until they reach yours. |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
354
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 19:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
Bernie Nator wrote:Just because your static is controlled and shut doesn't mean you are safe. If someone wants into your wormhole, they will find a way, either via a logged off scanner alt or just cycling their hole until they reach yours.
Uhh its not MY wh, I was just saying that a corp said they controlled the WH spawn and was safer and wondered what all the fuss was about this lol
I just reside in this WH for convience for taxing around Eve. It is empty 99% of the time. Of course there is more dangerious ones, they are only dangerious because of popularity of them, just like certain lowsec systems are dangerious, again because of popularity and density of inhabitants. |
Apolyon I
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
40
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 19:56:00 -
[25] - Quote
it's pretty safe if you pos spinning all day |
Taz Edenrunner
The Dark Space Initiative
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 20:40:00 -
[26] - Quote
Noone can stop a WH from opening by not warping to it from their direction, someone can open the WH from the other side of the connection.
If you close a WH to force another to respwan and do not warp to it, there is nothing stopping someone on the other side from scanning it down and warping to it causing the WH to open |
JitaPriceChecker2
State War Academy Caldari State
151
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 20:44:00 -
[27] - Quote
You can only control static wormhole from spawning. It actually spawns when you initiate warp to it
On the other hand Incoming wormholes can take you by surprise because you cant find then until someone opens it from the other site.
So it balance things out, in fact it makes wormholes more dangerous because if you know they connect to you it would be more difficult to gank you in extreme cases impossible.
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JitaPriceChecker2
State War Academy Caldari State
151
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 20:44:00 -
[28] - Quote
Taz Edenrunner wrote:someone can open the WH from the other side of the connection.
No
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Hatt0ri Hanz0
Life sucks then you die Ltd.
26
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Posted - 2012.05.13 00:10:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ive had people come into my system through a k162, and open up all my statics, thereby enabling their other side. This was all done, after I had probed out, but not initiated warp to them, thinking that I was fairly safe. So, believe me, this mechanic aside, there is nothing safe about w-space. OP, needs to find something else to complain about. |
Celery Man
Talocan Mining And Industrial Talocan United
43
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 00:28:00 -
[30] - Quote
Miilla wrote:[quote=Barbara Nichole] I am in a C2 right now
You live in the quietest safest section of wormhole space. You do not know what danger is, and I should know, I too am a slacker carebear living in a C2. Any second of any day a wormhole can open into you with a fleet behind it.
Or they already came in when you were offline and are waiting for you to do something stupid.
Explain to me how this situation is safe.
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Nathan Jameson
Talocan Dominion Talocan United
388
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 01:58:00 -
[31] - Quote
Miilla wrote:I thought W-space was suppost to be the MOST DANGERIOUS place, i am finding it the safest place in Eve. I am often AFK in W-space and surin tthese forums without fear of being in danger lol. This W-system is my personal region taxi :)
I can see why you left high sec. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
701
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 03:22:00 -
[32] - Quote
Wormholes have two sides: an outgoing side (never K162) and an incoming side (always K162).
Random outgoing wormholes can be found anywhere. Static outgoing wormholes are only found in w-space.
K162 don't appear until somebody initiates warp to the outgoing side. |
Juan Sezole
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe R.E.P.O.
9
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 03:41:00 -
[33] - Quote
Wormholes are the hardest part of eve, for a few reasons, if your scanner is out, and all of you are out - your **** is lost. Logistics isnt as easy as empire or k-space, and other reasons, and there is no local, too easy - i think not. But if you arent a total fool, you can manage :) |
Isha Tamron
The Environmental Management Team
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 05:58:00 -
[34] - Quote
Obviously someone who didn't even know someone lived there because Miilla didn't even dscan any planets out of range of the entrance(for 2 days?)......has very valuable opinions. |
Bernie Nator
Talocan Hive Talocan United
277
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 05:59:00 -
[35] - Quote
Tell you what, if you think you're safe, find me an entrance and I'll check your system for you free of charge. Just to make sure the defenses are up to par. |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
354
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 07:21:00 -
[36] - Quote
Nathan Jameson wrote:Miilla wrote:I thought W-space was suppost to be the MOST DANGERIOUS place, i am finding it the safest place in Eve. I am often AFK in W-space and surin tthese forums without fear of being in danger lol. This W-system is my personal region taxi :) I can see why you left high sec.
Lol, I dont maintain a kb, that is just partial information from what other people upload, I have lost far more cheetah's than that probably 10x more which isn't shown on BC because all KB's are inaccurate by their inherant design being dependant on everybody publishing but not everybody does - i dont :) :) |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
354
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 07:24:00 -
[37] - Quote
Isha Tamron wrote:Obviously someone who didn't even know someone lived there because Miilla didn't even dscan any planets out of range of the entrance(for 2 days?)......has very valuable opinions.
Actually I scanned all planets, there is a POS here but they only pop on once every 2 days or so lol That is why I am using this one as my personal regional taxi :) I have been in far more populated ones, again, no real danger, was even around their POS out of range of the guns, uncloaked, again no danger :) |
Gorenaire
Theosophical Society
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 07:49:00 -
[38] - Quote
Miilla wrote:is it true that wormholes when formed, don't actually open the other side until they're jumped through or are both sides open on forming?
can somebody explain how wormhole formation works regarding entry and exit on forming.
Why do you say that WH are too easy/safe when you obviously dont know that much about them ? |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
354
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 07:50:00 -
[39] - Quote
Gorenaire wrote:Miilla wrote:is it true that wormholes when formed, don't actually open the other side until they're jumped through or are both sides open on forming?
can somebody explain how wormhole formation works regarding entry and exit on forming. Why do you say that WH are too easy/safe when you obviously dont know that much about them ?
All the one's I have ever been in are nearly dead and empty lol, The only time I have been at danger is entering a camp at the wormhole itself but once inside, it is like nullsec.
I am in a C2 right now with a C4 joined on and a high and sometimes a low. I just happen to like this one and stay in to roam eve and pop out to connected regions now and then to see where it goes and to maybe get some stuff but then im back in it again.
And yes I don't know everything about them that is why I was wondering what all this huff puff was about with regard to "keeping a spawned wormhole closed", made no sense to me especially when they stated it made them safer, i was thinking WTF? Thats not what w-space should be like. |
Phrank Phish
Black Viper Nomads
4
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Posted - 2012.05.13 08:46:00 -
[40] - Quote
Just because you didnt open your static doesnt mean someone else hasnt. If your a target worth hitting then people will log a cov ops alt in your system and log it on when you get active, provided your system isnt microscopic in size then they can probe the static without letting you see and bring in a fleet through empire. Trust me, its been done.
Besides that, keeping your static closed means nothing, you have a c4 and an empire hole, you wont be attacked through those, people coming down from c5 162's are your biggest concern and you wont spot them until they decloak next to you. Even with a probe up watching for the incoming wh's to open, it takes 5 seconds to find you in an anomaly and maybe a minute if your at a signature. |
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Nathan Jameson
Talocan Dominion Talocan United
388
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:02:00 -
[41] - Quote
Miilla wrote:Lol, I dont maintain a kb, that is just partial information from what other people upload, I have lost far more cheetah's than that probably 10x more which isn't shown on BC because all KB's are inaccurate by their inherant design being dependant on everybody publishing but not everybody does - i dont :) :)
So...you're even worse than that? |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
354
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 09:07:00 -
[42] - Quote
Nathan Jameson wrote:Miilla wrote:Lol, I dont maintain a kb, that is just partial information from what other people upload, I have lost far more cheetah's than that probably 10x more which isn't shown on BC because all KB's are inaccurate by their inherant design being dependant on everybody publishing but not everybody does - i dont :) :) So...you're even worse than that?
I'm worse than worse, I'm terrible but its all fun :)
KB's are stupid anyway and a waste of my time. |
Nathan Jameson
Talocan Dominion Talocan United
388
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 10:11:00 -
[43] - Quote
Miilla wrote:KB's are stupid anyway and a waste of my time.
So, apparently, is proper scouting. |
Slade Fox
The Environmental Management Team
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 13:13:00 -
[44] - Quote
Hi again Miilla,
I guess when I explained this in local yesterday I wasn't very clear. And I never said we were safe. I merely mentioned that we don't open them. (unless we need something from it). We have holes from random places all the time and often take the opportunity to visit our neighbors and vice-versa. There is no local and CCP removed the jump counter so any mechanic still in place to allow us to run sleeper sites without getting our sh-t shoved in from out of nowhere we take advantage of. We may not run anomalies for days with 4-5 random holes opening up but on the other hand that does create opportunities for potential targets. Every wormhole resident employs this technique and no one is naive enough to think they're safe by keeping it closed.
We hope you are enjoying your taxi ride with us. Please stop by the POS for cake and ice cream.
Love, Slade |
Oxandrolone
Bite Me inc Exhale.
36
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 13:53:00 -
[45] - Quote
the spawn on both sides when you initiate warp to the wormhole for the first time.
you can use this to your advantage.
eg you get a k162 from lowsec and since its a k162 it means somewon in lowsec warped to it and so you know their probably in your system. if tis just a c140 or whatever the static low is you know nobody has come through it from ls if you were the first person to warp to it in a wormhole. |
Soraya Jita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.05.13 14:15:00 -
[46] - Quote
Nathan Jameson wrote:Miilla wrote:KB's are stupid anyway and a waste of my time. So, apparently, is proper scouting.
LULZ
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Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
354
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 15:08:00 -
[47] - Quote
Soraya Jita wrote:Nathan Jameson wrote:Miilla wrote:KB's are stupid anyway and a waste of my time. So, apparently, is proper scouting. LULZ
Scouting is for boy scouts :P dib dib dib
Oh I am always aware of what is not cloaked around me and I never sit in the same spot for long and am always moving :) - and when I light the MWD; I make sure I am not in that close proximity after and always change direction once I unlight it and recloak :)
The really only time to be paranoid of the scanner is when your uncloaked running some site or entering / exiting a potential camp. |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
354
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 15:09:00 -
[48] - Quote
Slade Fox wrote:Hi again Miilla,
I guess when I explained this in local yesterday I wasn't very clear. And I never said we were safe. I merely mentioned that we don't open them. (unless we need something from it). We have holes from random places all the time and often take the opportunity to visit our neighbors and vice-versa. There is no local and CCP removed the jump counter so any mechanic still in place to allow us to run sleeper sites without getting our sh-t shoved in from out of nowhere we take advantage of. We may not run anomalies for days with 4-5 random holes opening up but on the other hand that does create opportunities for potential targets. Every wormhole resident employs this technique and no one is naive enough to think they're safe by keeping it closed.
We hope you are enjoying your taxi ride with us. Please stop by the POS for cake and ice cream.
Love, Slade
You mean cake with a POS Tower candle on top :) |
Bernie Nator
Talocan Hive Talocan United
277
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 16:13:00 -
[49] - Quote
Miilla wrote:Soraya Jita wrote:Nathan Jameson wrote:Miilla wrote:KB's are stupid anyway and a waste of my time. So, apparently, is proper scouting. LULZ Scouting is for boy scouts :P dib dib dib Oh I am always aware of what is not cloaked around me and I never sit in the same spot for long and am always moving :) - and when I light the MWD; I make sure I am not in that close proximity after and always change direction once I unlight it and recloak :) The really only time to be paranoid of the scanner is when your uncloaked running some site or entering / exiting a potential camp. Ive always wondered what it would be like to be that naive. |
Marsan
Production N Destruction INC.
29
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Posted - 2012.05.13 16:41:00 -
[50] - Quote
Wormmhole system can be pretty safe. If you put scouts on all the entrances, keep scanning for incoming holes you can run sites as nearly as safely as a well protected NS system. That said unless you have people on high alert 23/7 it's easy for a cloaky ship to sneak in. Generally this just means a lost miner or hauler or 2, but they can always scan a way in for friends. It's not uncommon for the more aggressive alliances to put a sleeper in your system to watch you for weeks prior to an assault.
PS- C2 are hard to keep secure as they are the crossroads of w-space. A lot of c4-6 systems which are held by active groups have a static C2 connection which they use for logistics. But don't think if they spot an active fleet they won't take advantage of the situation. |
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Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
354
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 16:48:00 -
[51] - Quote
Marsan wrote:Wormmhole system can be pretty safe. If you put scouts on all the entrances, keep scanning for incoming holes you can run sites as nearly as safely as a well protected NS system. That said unless you have people on high alert 23/7 it's easy for a cloaky ship to sneak in. Generally this just means a lost miner or hauler or 2, but they can always scan a way in for friends. It's not uncommon for the more aggressive alliances to put a sleeper in your system to watch you for weeks prior to an assault.
PS- C2 are hard to keep secure as they are the crossroads of w-space. A lot of c4-6 systems which are held by active groups have a static C2 connection which they use for logistics. But don't think if they spot an active fleet they won't take advantage of the situation.
I am always cloaked and moving anyway, and yes we have a static C4 connected, but for some reason according to all published stats, this w-system is pretty much dead and empty which is good because its a nice quiet exploration taxi around the eve universe :D
I usually don't bother anybody unless they bother me, then I go medieval on them :) |
Messoroz
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
219
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Posted - 2012.05.13 17:01:00 -
[52] - Quote
Why is the worst C&P troll in the wormhole forum? |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
354
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 17:10:00 -
[53] - Quote
Messoroz wrote:Why is the worst C&P troll in the wormhole forum?
Blame ISD's :) |
Tierius Fro
Coronado's Cross
6
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Posted - 2012.05.13 17:16:00 -
[54] - Quote
Back to topic ... let me get this straight. You are saying if a w-system has exits that can only be opened from the w-system side then if you never open them you are safe? This logic is flawed, because that means there are wormholes into your w-system that only open from the other side, beyond your control, and that makes it less safe.
I routinely scan for wormholes because I want to where they are and where they lead, so I better understand the risks.
Fro http://ridingevewormhole.blogspot.com/
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Bernie Nator
Talocan Hive Talocan United
277
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 19:22:00 -
[55] - Quote
Tierius Fro wrote:Back to topic ... let me get this straight. You are saying if a w-system has exits that can only be opened from the w-system side then if you never open them you are safe? This logic is flawed, because that means there are wormholes into your w-system that only open from the other side, beyond your control, and that makes it less safe.
I routinely scan for wormholes because I want to where they are and where they lead, so I better understand the risks.
Fro Oh yay, someone gets it! Awesome! |
Keilateau Shakor
Shakor Freight and Mining Service
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 20:19:00 -
[56] - Quote
Miilla wrote:all the stuff this person says proper response
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illy velo
Production N Destruction INC. The Last Chancers.
24
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 20:25:00 -
[57] - Quote
Hey gais! I was just wondering if we could cover this stuff again in another thread? We don't have nearly enough threads covering this topic yet. |
Coolsmoke
State War Academy Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 00:02:00 -
[58] - Quote
illy velo wrote:Hey gais! I was just wondering if we could cover this stuff again in another thread? We don't have nearly enough threads covering this topic yet.
+1 |
Terrorfrodo
Deep Space Darwinian Law Enforcement Agency
65
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 09:01:00 -
[59] - Quote
Confirming that sitting cloaked in a wormhole all the time is pretty safe. Actually *doing* something productive in a wormhole, like running sites or engaging in pvp, not so safe.
It's like saying I can't die in Nullsec so it's easy mode because I only log on in space in my cov ops then afk-cloak for 10 hours then log off again
We can *make* our wormhole relatively safe by using our skills and knowledge and investing effort, which is exactly how it should be. If we always know all the signatures in our system, guard open holes, leave others closed GÇô and make sure they are not opened by someone else without us noticing GÇô, always look for new signatures and immediately scan down and guard newly opened incoming holes... yes then it's rather safe. But that isn't something we get for free, we work for it. And since everyone get's lazy once in a while and no corp can monitor their system 24/7, there could still be someone already in there waiting for us when we log on. Winner of elections banned, runner-up demoted by rest of the body, the council controlled by the losers. CSM 7 is illegitimate, CCP should remember when dealing with them. Remember what players voted for. |
Eso Es
Li3's Electric Cucumber SpaceMonkey's Alliance
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 13:30:00 -
[60] - Quote
Miilla wrote:Pohbis wrote:Miilla wrote:I am living in one right now but was supprised to hear that a corp inside it can CONTROL their safety by keeping a newly spawned wormhole CLOSED. To me that is EASY mode by ensuring they are safe.
Why would they need the ability to keep a wormhole closed? Surely the wormhole mechanics should be out of player CONTROL, but apparently it is not. Please continue thinking you are safe 'cause you keep your static from spawning Funny, I don't have to think i'm safe, I've been in W for weeks now and am now, It isnt me who said I feel safe, it is the corps inside saying theyre safer because they keep the spawned WH closed. Just asking why this is the case and why it is needed in the game. To me it goes against what W-space was sold as. DANGERIOUS! Just wondering what this "keeping the Wormhole closed" idiocy is about.
Ok first of all, you can NEVER be 100% safe by keeping your statics close as there is always the possiblity of a K162 opening from somewhere else. Second of all, your corp is going to quickly run out of things to do not opening your statics, WH anoms/sites take quite a while to regenerate. I imagine they just recently moved into their WH, theyre keeping the statics closed while farming all the anoms/sigs, but once theyre gone I guarentee those statics get opened in search of more lootz.
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FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1522
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 13:48:00 -
[61] - Quote
Yes, you can avoid opening your static. However, it's entirely possible for multiple holes to open in your system in a very short period of time. Recently had three K162s open in 30 minutes. Things got...hectic. It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
Chrisfaren
Abyssal Frontier Jovian Empire
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 14:04:00 -
[62] - Quote
4 pages of this? guess I'll post a reply allso then...
A wormhole will have one or more static holes, this means you will allways have a exit or more. Howevere as written many times before, these will only "open" when you initiate warp towards them, thus making it probeable as a K162 wherver it might spawn on the other side.
Yes, if you are able to controll your wormhole it is relatively safe, keeping "closed" wormholes only. BUT, you can never know when you get a incoming hole, or more. This will happen allmost dayly. And they might probe down your static and open it and your day of playing may be ruined :p
After living in a wormhole for quite some time I have gotten used to spamming d-scan all the time, it comes natural, this way you can sometimes pick up a unknown ship or probe and you knnow you have visitors. Most of us will allso pop a probe out every 15 minutes or so to check for new signatures.
Living in a WH is not easy mode by far. But it can be made comfortable with the methods mentioned above.
Having the wormholes allways open in both ends will basically just make it "known space" without local. In other words HELL compared to the rest of eve. |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
354
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 17:46:00 -
[63] - Quote
Is there some kind of known frequency or bias in the incoming vs outgoing wormholes? |
Bernie Nator
Talocan Hive Talocan United
277
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 18:04:00 -
[64] - Quote
Miilla wrote:Is there some kind of known frequency or bias in the incoming vs outgoing wormholes?
They usually come at night.
Usually. |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
354
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 18:06:00 -
[65] - Quote
Bernie Nator wrote:Miilla wrote:Is there some kind of known frequency or bias in the incoming vs outgoing wormholes? They usually come at night. Usually.
lol , but seriously , anybody know a bias in the entry exit ratios? |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
202
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 18:29:00 -
[66] - Quote
Miilla wrote:Bernie Nator wrote:Miilla wrote:Is there some kind of known frequency or bias in the incoming vs outgoing wormholes? They usually come at night. Usually. lol , but seriously , anybody know a bias in the entry exit ratios?
Aside from the statics? 1:1 since an entry WH is someone elses EXIT? |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
354
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 18:36:00 -
[67] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Miilla wrote:Bernie Nator wrote:Miilla wrote:Is there some kind of known frequency or bias in the incoming vs outgoing wormholes? They usually come at night. Usually. lol , but seriously , anybody know a bias in the entry exit ratios? Aside from the statics? 1:1 since an entry WH is someone elses EXIT?
Isn't the K162 the generic exit? Sometimes it is empire facing sometimes it is inbound to the W-space system.
Isn't that how it works? K162 end is the exit and the other side is the are incomming, so on that basis, what is that bias in which side is the K162's? Do I understand it correctly? |
Splodger
Ausbruch
24
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 18:40:00 -
[68] - Quote
Bernie Nator wrote:Miilla wrote:Is there some kind of known frequency or bias in the incoming vs outgoing wormholes? They usually come at night. Usually.
lol love it |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
354
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 18:41:00 -
[69] - Quote
Splodger wrote:Bernie Nator wrote:Miilla wrote:Is there some kind of known frequency or bias in the incoming vs outgoing wormholes? They usually come at night. Usually. lol love it
What is day and what is night in space? |
Splodger
Ausbruch
24
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 18:50:00 -
[70] - Quote
Miilla wrote:Splodger wrote:Bernie Nator wrote:Miilla wrote:Is there some kind of known frequency or bias in the incoming vs outgoing wormholes? They usually come at night. Usually. lol love it What is day and what is night in space?
Miilla, i dont know if your serious about whole wormhole space malarky, but I suggest a good start would be Lorkin Desal's guide.
k162 is indeed the exit, the rest is speculation on %'s of inc and outgoing but some people have solid theories... but then again they are just that... theories. RNG is RNG |
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Olan Chang
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 18:51:00 -
[71] - Quote
As far as I know, all sigs work like that, they will only be initiated if someone warp to then. It indeed makes things easier when running site in your wormhole; close all incoming wh, close your static, you can be sure your static doesn't lead anywhere.
Note that you can rely on the static being close only in your own system since we lost the jump stats. In the past, if there were no k162 wormhole (except the one you used) and no jump in the last 24 hours, you knew the static was closed. Nowadays, you have to assume all static wormhole, other than your own, are open, and you can't always reroll wormholes far away from your home.
However, even if all statics were always open, it wouldn't make w-space more dangerous. You would just need to reroll for a quiet system and keep a picket there looking for probes on d-scan. The real danger are the fresh incoming wormholes that you don't have yet the position, that a fleet might used to drop on your sieged dreads and triaged carriers in the next minute. |
Bernie Nator
Talocan Hive Talocan United
277
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 20:10:00 -
[72] - Quote
Allow me a minute to do a basic breakdown of hole classifications.
All holes begin somewhere and pop out at another. Let's say you've warped to a hole in high sec and it reads "Wormhole R943". You do a quick info check on it and it tells you that this wormhole has about a day left and has not been destabilized. The numbers tell you that this is where the hole's beginning was. Without even jumping in, the hole on the other side will be a k162. K162 is the classification given to all wormhole ends. This is where having a basic knowledge of wormhole space comes in handy. A k162 from hi, low and null does not need to be warped to for it to spawn into a wormhole. However, a wormhole in wormhole space does need to be warped to for it to form a connection to another system.
This is why you have to check every new signature that your prober catches on scan. The likelihood of a new signature being a k162 is fairly high, although it doesn't have to be a k162. It could just be a periodic hole leading out to a different system. Hence why checking the classification on the hole is important.
I trust this will help enlighten people that aren't sure on how connections work. |
Phrank Phish
Black Viper Nomads
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 20:10:00 -
[73] - Quote
Miilla wrote:Isn't that how it works? K162 end is the exit and the other side is the are incomming, so on that basis, what is that bias in which side is the K162's? Do I understand it correctly?
A K162 is the arse end of another wormhole, every other type (whatever the code) spawns a K162 at its destination.
EG: Your C2 - C4 should be a y683 in your system but on the C4 side it will be a k162. Because the back end is allways a k162
While a C4 - C2 will be an N766 hole in the C4 but in your C2 it will be a K162 because now your system is the rear end.
You could go through every system and count up how many statics open to how many destinations (not counting the random spawns) and work out the likelyhood of chains (c4+ tend to come down through C3- to reach empire, so your more likely to get traffic) to come up with a number of possible incoming holes.
Or, just assume K162's will be opening at random and deal with them when they arrive.
Edit: Forgot to add, K162's are allways a size 10, while other holes can range in size from 10 to 2.2. And with practice you can tell where a hole goes just by its colour. C1 dark blue with green verticle stripe, C2 dark blue, C3 white, C4 green, C5 orange, C6 red. |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
354
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 20:13:00 -
[74] - Quote
Phrank Phish wrote:Miilla wrote:Isn't that how it works? K162 end is the exit and the other side is the are incomming, so on that basis, what is that bias in which side is the K162's? Do I understand it correctly? A K162 is the arse end of another wormhole, every other type (whatever the code) spawns a K162 at its destination. EG: Your C2 - C4 should be a y683 in your system but on the C4 side it will be a k162. Because the back end is allways a k162 While a C4 - C2 will be an N766 hole in the C4 but in your C2 it will be a K162 because now your system is the rear end. You could go through every system and count up how many statics open to how many destinations (not counting the random spawns) and work out the likelyhood of chains (c4+ tend to come down through C3- to reach empire, so your more likely to get traffic) to come up with a number of possible incoming holes. Or, just assume K162's will be opening at random and deal with them when they arrive.
That's what I said, K162's are the exits of wormholes, hence theyre called generic exits, they are the outbound side of a spawned wormhole.
I seem to find more OUTGOING (non K162's from inside the W-space system) than INCOMING (k162 inside my w-system from outside). Just wondering if that was the way it was in most cases. |
Bernie Nator
Talocan Hive Talocan United
277
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 20:19:00 -
[75] - Quote
Miilla wrote:Phrank Phish wrote:Miilla wrote:Isn't that how it works? K162 end is the exit and the other side is the are incomming, so on that basis, what is that bias in which side is the K162's? Do I understand it correctly? A K162 is the arse end of another wormhole, every other type (whatever the code) spawns a K162 at its destination. EG: Your C2 - C4 should be a y683 in your system but on the C4 side it will be a k162. Because the back end is allways a k162 While a C4 - C2 will be an N766 hole in the C4 but in your C2 it will be a K162 because now your system is the rear end. You could go through every system and count up how many statics open to how many destinations (not counting the random spawns) and work out the likelyhood of chains (c4+ tend to come down through C3- to reach empire, so your more likely to get traffic) to come up with a number of possible incoming holes. Or, just assume K162's will be opening at random and deal with them when they arrive. That's what I said, K162's are the exits of wormholes, hence theyre called generic exits, they are the outbound side of a spawned wormhole. I seem to find more OUTGOING (non K162's from inside the W-space system) than INCOMING (k162 inside my w-system from outside). Just wondering if that was the way it was in most cases.
Sometimes systems can get a decent number of incoming k162s and others it can get a large number of periodics. The most I've seen in a day is 7, but it might be possible for more to exist. I imagine its how holes are coded. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Exhale.
25
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 12:15:00 -
[76] - Quote
Doesn't know how wormholes work, attempt to make claims about wormhole space
lol |
Bernie Nator
Talocan Hive Talocan United
277
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 12:17:00 -
[77] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Doesn't know how wormholes work, attempt to make claims about wormhole space
lol I feel a link to an advice meme coming on... |
Nathan Jameson
Talocan Dominion Talocan United
388
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 13:59:00 -
[78] - Quote
Bernie Nator wrote:I feel a link to an advice meme coming on...
knows nothing about wormholes... |
El Geo
Pathfinders.
30
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 16:24:00 -
[79] - Quote
look up arek'jaalen projects (like compass and snapshot) personally, i cant see how you would make a door without an exit (logic says one can't exist without the other)
for those of you trying to say that you know this 'fact' that k162's only spawn when the other side is warped to LOL, you have no facts, you have only your opinion
ty and good day |
Nathan Jameson
Talocan Dominion Talocan United
388
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 17:18:00 -
[80] - Quote
El Geo wrote:for those of you trying to say that you know this 'fact' that k162's only spawn when the other side is warped to LOL, you have no facts, you have only your opinion
Sure...if you ignore the evidence posted on this thread and the Arek'Jalaan project, sure. |
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Bernie Nator
Talocan Hive Talocan United
277
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 18:12:00 -
[81] - Quote
Hey, I wonder if any Arek'jaalen project leads are in this thread... |
El Geo
Pathfinders.
30
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 10:10:00 -
[82] - Quote
Nathan Jameson wrote:El Geo wrote:for those of you trying to say that you know this 'fact' that k162's only spawn when the other side is warped to LOL, you have no facts, you have only your opinion Sure...if you ignore the evidence posted on this thread and the Arek'Jalaan project, sure.
Snapshot didnt have enough players to cover the whole of highsec, conclusive evidence just isnt there atm. So yeah, its still a matter of opinion NOT evidence.
Infact i spoke to faulx the other day about this same subject, and hes still running tests.
/me goes onto sisi, scans down numerous k162's, evidence? |
Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative.
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 13:46:00 -
[83] - Quote
Actually I know for a fact.
We recently collapsed every link in our wh to run some sites and mid-way through running had a wh link spawn to us and another corp (who I know from the AHARM public channel) tried to jump us (unsucessfully as we monitor sigs whilest running). On talking to them they'd done the same as us - collapsed all links, left their static un-warped to and run sites, then once sites were done warped to their static, which then linked to us, looking for some pew before bed and we were the first system they linked to. |
Qvar Dar'Zanar
EVE University Ivy League
37
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 13:53:00 -
[84] - Quote
Taz Edenrunner wrote:Noone can stop a WH from opening by not warping to it from their direction, someone can open the WH from the other side of the connection.
If you close a WH to force another to respwan and do not warp to it, there is nothing stopping someone on the other side from scanning it down and warping to it causing the WH to open
No. Check the Arek'Jaalan snapshoot project results. |
El Geo
Pathfinders.
30
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 14:20:00 -
[85] - Quote
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:Taz Edenrunner wrote:Noone can stop a WH from opening by not warping to it from their direction, someone can open the WH from the other side of the connection.
If you close a WH to force another to respwan and do not warp to it, there is nothing stopping someone on the other side from scanning it down and warping to it causing the WH to open No. Check the Arek'Jaalan snapshoot project results.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Project_Snapshot |
Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
36
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 20:36:00 -
[86] - Quote
Miilla wrote:Hayaishi wrote:Miilla wrote:is it true that wormholes when formed, don't actually open the other side until they're jumped through or are both sides open on forming?
can somebody explain how wormhole formation works regarding entry and exit on forming. I'm sure it's documented somewhere. I know it, but wont tell you. Fine, then if its true, why wouldn't both ends open on forming? Won't that make W-space too safe for those inhabiting it? ( I am currently habiting W-space :) ) I feel both ends should be opened (connected) once formed and thus the people inside the W-space cannot control their safety by "not opening" the newly formed Wormhole. It sounds like Easy mode to me in W-space.
There is a difference between a WH signature and the WH itself. When you scan, you are scanning the wormhole signature. When you click Warp to, the WH will spawn. It will not spawn until someone warps to it. |
Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
36
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 20:39:00 -
[87] - Quote
Taz Edenrunner wrote:Noone can stop a WH from opening by not warping to it from their direction, someone can open the WH from the other side of the connection.
If you close a WH to force another to respwan and do not warp to it, there is nothing stopping someone on the other side from scanning it down and warping to it causing the WH to open
Nub |
T G Reaper
Knysna Grim Reapers
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 21:20:00 -
[88] - Quote
the only thing i gathered from this thread is that the guys from the enviromental management team corp speaks in local in wh space and thinks they are safe if they keep their static closed. anyone maybe have a locus sig for me while i gets my cloaky loki refueled? |
Kazu'ul
OMG PWNAGE
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 08:55:00 -
[89] - Quote
Tell me if I'm wrong, but the existence of a wormhole signature wherever it leads to allows it to be scanned, and thus warped to, and thus 'spawned'.
Sooooo,, how are you 'safe' by not warping to your static? Wherever your static links to also has a sig in that system, right? One that can be scanned and warped to.... Or is it just a matter of the link-to system not having the wormhole sig until someone from origin system warps to the hole? That's the only possibility I can think of.
It doesn't seem to make w-space 'safe' but rather 'slightly safer' as there is 1 less link to you. As others have stated, there's always the possiblity that an exit hole will appear in your system from J155YARR.
I love talking in wormhole local too. Lots of friendly chat there. Sometimes I even sell contracts to visitors. |
Kalel Nimrott
Wishful Desires Inc. Armada Assail
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 10:06:00 -
[90] - Quote
Kazu'ul wrote:Tell me if I'm wrong, but the existence of a wormhole signature wherever it leads to allows it to be scanned, and thus warped to, and thus 'spawned'.
Sooooo,, how are you 'safe' by not warping to your static? Wherever your static links to also has a sig in that system, right? One that can be scanned and warped to.... Or is it just a matter of the link-to system not having the wormhole sig until someone from origin system warps to the hole? That's the only possibility I can think of.
It doesn't seem to make w-space 'safe' but rather 'slightly safer' as there is 1 less link to you. As others have stated, there's always the possiblity that an exit hole will appear in your system from J155YARR.
I love talking in wormhole local too. Lots of friendly chat there. Sometimes I even sell contracts to visitors.
The targeted system doesn`t have a local signature of the wh until someone warps to the original signature in the origin system. In other words, K162 are created by players warping to the XXXX (I.E. K346) wormhole. The only case that this happens. Other signatures are created randomly. |
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Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
202
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 11:35:00 -
[91] - Quote
Kazu'ul wrote:Tell me if I'm wrong, but the existence of a wormhole signature wherever it leads to allows it to be scanned, and thus warped to, and thus 'spawned'.
Sooooo,, how are you 'safe' by not warping to your static? Wherever your static links to also has a sig in that system, right? One that can be scanned and warped to.... Or is it just a matter of the link-to system not having the wormhole sig until someone from origin system warps to the hole? That's the only possibility I can think of.
It doesn't seem to make w-space 'safe' but rather 'slightly safer' as there is 1 less link to you. As others have stated, there's always the possiblity that an exit hole will appear in your system from J155YARR.
I love talking in wormhole local too. Lots of friendly chat there. Sometimes I even sell contracts to visitors.
Omg really? 89 posts and you ask this? You have either no bothered two read any of this thread or you have the reading comprehension of a preschooler. |
El Geo
Pathfinders.
30
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 12:19:00 -
[92] - Quote
so, by a lot of this threads logic i should be able to go onto the test server and not find a single k162, or if i do "someone MUST have scanned it from the other side and warped to it"? |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
202
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 12:27:00 -
[93] - Quote
El Geo wrote:so, by a lot of this threads logic i should be able to go onto the test server and not find a single k162, or if i do "someone MUST have scanned it from the other side and warped to it"?
Correct. In fact it has been discussed before how difficult it is to find a WH on Sisi, since you are relying heavily on random inbound WH's.
It is a bit easier these days with many WH's inhabited, as those people will likely find themselves in their WH when logging into SiSi (I know I did). |
Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative.
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 14:43:00 -
[94] - Quote
El Geo wrote:so, by a lot of this threads logic i should be able to go onto the test server and not find a single k162, or if i do "someone MUST have scanned it from the other side and warped to it"?
In theory you should only find outgoing wormholes - some people spawn in their wh and scan outwards tho rather than using the moveme channel and a few people explore wh space on SISI so some k162s do exist just not many.
|
El Geo
Pathfinders.
30
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 16:19:00 -
[95] - Quote
So, the only way to actually prove this theory is to have every highsec system scanned down at the same time on the test server.
Thankyou |
Messoroz
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
219
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 17:25:00 -
[96] - Quote
El Geo wrote:So, the only way to actually prove this theory is to have every highsec system scanned down at the same time on the test server.
Thankyou
Eh, it's true if you were to go to SiSi, you will find almost no wormholes. In fact this is such a problem that devs stickied a thread in the forums once explaining it. |
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