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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
baltec1
Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates
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Posted - 2009.06.07 23:09:00 -
[61]
Edited by: baltec1 on 07/06/2009 23:18:50 The conservatives just won wales...
It is at this point you know that labour are truely ****ed. But enought of politics time for the sky at night |
Brolly
Caldari Caldari State Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.08 01:27:00 -
[62]
Wooow, BNP go to EU and get lovely funding.
Blimey, UK's fascist party get in. Nice one you apathetic voters |
Deadly Serpent
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Posted - 2009.06.08 02:32:00 -
[63]
Democracy doesn't only apply to moderate parties. It's easy to blame apathy but that ignores the underlying causes for such a vote.
From the BNP site their first policy is:
Quote:
IMMIGRATION - time to say ENOUGH!
On current demographic trends, we, the native British people, will be an ethnic minority in our own country within sixty years.
To ensure that this does not happen, and that the British people retain their homeland and identity, we call for an immediate halt to all further immigration, the immediate deportation of criminal and illegal immigrants, and the introduction of a system of voluntary resettlement whereby those immigrants who are legally here will be afforded the opportunity to return to their lands of ethnic origin assisted by a generous financial incentives both for individuals and for the countries in question.
We will abolish the æpositive discriminationÆ schemes that have made white Britons second-class citizens. We will also clamp down on the flood of æasylum seekersÆ, all of whom are either bogus or can find refuge much nearer their home countries.
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Elena Khan
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Posted - 2009.06.08 05:07:00 -
[64]
In B4 this Thread gets nuked by the Mod's for discussing a prohibited subject...
CCP made Smashkill cry by nerfing ghost training |
Fire Watch
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Posted - 2009.06.08 07:43:00 -
[65]
Isn't the UKIP a strong anti immigrant party? |
Tallaran Kouros
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.06.08 09:00:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Deadly Serpent Democracy doesn't only apply to moderate parties. It's easy to blame apathy but that ignores the underlying causes for such a vote.
From the BNP site their first policy is:
Quote:
We will abolish the æpositive discriminationÆ schemes that have made white Britons second-class citizens. We will also clamp down on the flood of æasylum seekersÆ, all of whom are either bogus or can find refuge much nearer their home countries.
I abhor the BNP and everything that they stand for, but the problem with this is - and what no mainstream party wants to talk about - is that it's true.
Putting aside EU Nationals who have the right to live and work anywhere in the EU, pretty much every asylum seeker in the UK should not be here and that's not my view, it's the official UN rules on seeking asylum.
Anyone claiming asylum should do so in the "first safe country" that they reach. Given that pretty much every asylum seeker has to cross multiple stable, western-style democracies in Western Europe before they get to the UK, we hardly represent the "first safe country" in which to claim asylum.
This is why the UK was so annoyed at France over the Sangatte immigration camp a few years ago. the French didn't really care as they knew they were all wanting to go to the UK and once they crossed the channel, they were all problem and not France's :)
Now personally I'm not all that bothered - if someone is willing to work hard, pay tax and be a productive member of society then I couldn't care less what their name is, the colour of their skin or where they come from, it matters little to me but such underlying anger is exactly what far right parties tap into in times of economic or political instability.
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Reven Cordelle
Caldari Yamainu-Mirai Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.06.08 09:28:00 -
[67]
BNP can has 2 seats nao!
UKIP are 2nd, which is nice. Conservatives are first, typically - because they have more media coverage. People will vote Conservs because they've been made to look like the Knight in Shining Armor vs Labour.
Either way - anything but Labour! What disturbs me is that Labour got that high up. Are people that ignorant? |
Tallaran Kouros
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.06.08 10:06:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Reven Cordelle
Either way - anything but Labour! What disturbs me is that Labour got that high up. Are people that ignorant?
There is a PLP meeting at Westminister tonight which is expected to be extremely rocky, possibly followed by a no-confidence motion in the Commons during the week.
I'm half expecting a general election within the next few weeks. |
baltec1
Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates
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Posted - 2009.06.08 10:15:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Reven Cordelle
Either way - anything but Labour! What disturbs me is that Labour got that high up. Are people that ignorant?
That is exactly what I said when labour won the north east again. I mean honestly, how much worse must it get before people up here will vote any different |
LordSwift
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.06.08 11:48:00 -
[70]
Edited by: LordSwift on 08/06/2009 11:50:21
Originally by: Deadly Serpent Democracy doesn't only apply to moderate parties. It's easy to blame apathy but that ignores the underlying causes for such a vote.
From the BNP site their first policy is:
Quote:
IMMIGRATION - time to say ENOUGH!
On current demographic trends, we, the native British people, will be an ethnic minority in our own country within sixty years.
To ensure that this does not happen, and that the British people retain their homeland and identity, we call for an immediate halt to all further immigration, the immediate deportation of criminal and illegal immigrants, and the introduction of a system of voluntary resettlement whereby those immigrants who are legally here will be afforded the opportunity to return to their lands of ethnic origin assisted by a generous financial incentives both for individuals and for the countries in question.
We will abolish the æpositive discriminationÆ schemes that have made white Britons second-class citizens. We will also clamp down on the flood of æasylum seekersÆ, all of whom are either bogus or can find refuge much nearer their home countries.
I feel so dirty but i generally agree with that policy except the BOLDED part. It will be voluntary until they see fit to make it mandatory and force them all out the country. Well its the way i see it going anyway. I am not against people with genuine skills and reasons to come and work here. But when you see 75% of fast food, take away staff are all foreigners who barely speak english something has to be wrong. But maybe thats just me.
Also i would love to see figures for the percentage of british born unemployed compared to the amount of foreign workers. But maybe we are lazy and are glad to give the crappy mcdonalds/kfc jobs to immigrients |
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ReaperOfSly
Gallente Zetsubou Corp
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Posted - 2009.06.08 12:07:00 -
[71]
Originally by: LordSwift I am not against people with genuine skills and reasons to come and work here. But when you see 75% of fast food, take away staff are all foreigners who barely speak english something has to be wrong. But maybe thats just me.
Why? Would you rather have that job yourself? How much English do you need to know to understand "Want Big Mac NAO"? (You might guess I don't eat fast food much)
Anyway, I have nothing against immigration. Indian and Chinese food = yum. Polish girls = hawt. I don't really give two hoots about anything else. ____________________
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Xen Gin
Solar Excavations Ultd. Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.08 12:14:00 -
[72]
You know it's bad when my Indian friends say that it's getting to foreign even for them.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.06.08 12:17:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Blane Xero on 08/06/2009 12:17:20 When you need a translator just to talk to half your neighbourhood, you realise all your dreams for living in a foreign country were taken slightly too literally. ___________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
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ReaperOfSly
Gallente Zetsubou Corp
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Posted - 2009.06.08 12:31:00 -
[74]
You could always make the effort to learn a few words of their language. It might guilt them into making more of an effort in learning yours.
It's a brilliant piece of hypocrisy. Britons go on holiday and the entire time we're in a foreign country, the majority of us never bother to utter a word in the local tongue. And yet we ***** and moan when a small minority of immigrants "can't be bothered" to learn English, or just have too thick an accent. ____________________
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Stitcher
Caldari ForgeTech Industries
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Posted - 2009.06.08 12:37:00 -
[75]
What the hell does it matter whether or not white British is going to end up a minority? people are people, it's not like being as celtic as a harp gives me any particular privileges.
White skin is the football club T-shirt of skin tones. All it does is define you as part of a conceptual group. It's worse than a club T-shirt actually, because you can at least choose which club you support.
Now, am I saying I'd rather be some other ethnicity? No, I'm not. Ethnicity does. Not. Matter. Or at least, it wouldn't in an enlightened culture.
Bring it on, I say. Let immigrants in (assuming they can bring something to the country that benefits those of us already living here). Bring down the genetic walls. Let England do what it has ALWAYS done and be at the forefront of enlightened societal evolution. The BNP can take a big raised middle finger from me: their way is division, conflict, tribalism.
By all means, have your tribes and groups and subcultures. But make those divisions intellectual and freely chosen, not a product of genetic providence and geographic accident. - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain. |
Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.06.08 12:38:00 -
[76]
If i ever had any intentions of personally moving to another country on any term longer than two or three weeks i would gladly learn the local tongue, sadly as it is i have not once left the UK (Or even Scotland, i'm such a sheltered person!) and have no intentions of doing so for some time. As it is right now i know a touch of German and that's about it. ___________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
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ReaperOfSly
Gallente Zetsubou Corp
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Posted - 2009.06.08 12:57:00 -
[77]
Edited by: ReaperOfSly on 08/06/2009 13:04:14
Originally by: Blane Xero If i ever had any intentions of personally moving to another country on any term longer than two or three weeks i would gladly learn the local tongue, sadly as it is i have not once left the UK (Or even Scotland, i'm such a sheltered person!) and have no intentions of doing so for some time. As it is right now i know a touch of German and that's about it.
Surely if the fact that your neighbours speak in a different language is a hindrance to you, it would be beneficial for you to learn just a few words of their language? Just hello, goodbye, please, thank you, yes and no would be enough for a start. You never know - they might actually be willing to talk to you if you show you're willing to talk to them.
Edit: damn, now I sound like some shiny eyed idealist. |
baltec1
Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates
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Posted - 2009.06.08 13:04:00 -
[78]
Originally by: ReaperOfSly You could always make the effort to learn a few words of their language. It might guilt them into making more of an effort in learning yours.
It's a brilliant piece of hypocrisy. Britons go on holiday and the entire time we're in a foreign country, the majority of us never bother to utter a word in the local tongue. And yet we ***** and moan when a small minority of immigrants "can't be bothered" to learn English, or just have too thick an accent.
If I move to live into another country I would learn their language not make that country learn mine. There was a great story a while ago about a post office that refused to serve people that did not speak english. The post master was an immigrant himself who signed up for english classes the moment he could and has the Union Jack pinned up on his wall. The guy is more british than some of the natives. |
ReaperOfSly
Gallente Zetsubou Corp
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Posted - 2009.06.08 13:16:00 -
[79]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: ReaperOfSly You could always make the effort to learn a few words of their language. It might guilt them into making more of an effort in learning yours.
It's a brilliant piece of hypocrisy. Britons go on holiday and the entire time we're in a foreign country, the majority of us never bother to utter a word in the local tongue. And yet we ***** and moan when a small minority of immigrants "can't be bothered" to learn English, or just have too thick an accent.
If I move to live into another country I would learn their language not make that country learn mine. There was a great story a while ago about a post office that refused to serve people that did not speak english. The post master was an immigrant himself who signed up for english classes the moment he could and has the Union Jack pinned up on his wall. The guy is more british than some of the natives.
Yes, I heard about that story. And I agree, people who move to this country should make some effort to speak English. And the vast majority of them do. There are always a few though, so there's no way around it. Either meet them part-way or resign yourself to never understanding them.
Personally, I just like learning words from other languages just for the sheer hell of it. I think I shall try learning how to say "My friend will pay" in 20 languages. ____________________
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Haldane IV
Einstein's Dreams
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Posted - 2009.06.08 14:58:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Brolly Wooow, BNP go to EU and get lovely funding.
Blimey, UK's fascist party get in. Nice one you apathetic voters
This
Puts me in mind of that quote about the only thing needed to allow evil to triumph is for good men do nothing
I was a bit less depressed when I heard BNP actually got less votes this time, than last, tho
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ReaperOfSly
Gallente Zetsubou Corp
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Posted - 2009.06.08 15:08:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Haldane IV
Originally by: Brolly Wooow, BNP go to EU and get lovely funding.
Blimey, UK's fascist party get in. Nice one you apathetic voters
This
Puts me in mind of that quote about the only thing needed to allow evil to triumph is for good men do nothing
I was a bit less depressed when I heard BNP actually got less votes this time, than last, tho
The fact that BNP got a seat reflects the worries people have. It shows the government that immigration is kind of a big deal right now. Couple that with the fact that the "big" parties have been recently tarnished by the MP expenses scandal, and you get more people voting for fringe parties like the BNP.
I think they're mad, but there you go. ____________________
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Haldane IV
Einstein's Dreams
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Posted - 2009.06.08 15:16:00 -
[82]
edit - Ive just looked at the individual results (as printed in Times online) and as far as I can see, in all but a couple od constituencies, BNP have actually got more votes this time. They did however get less in the constituency where there 2nd MEP (Brons) got in. The remark in the Times is therefore, to my mind, a bit misleading if you read it a certain way.
Doesn't detract from the point being made tho, don't let 'em in by default.
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Tallaran Kouros
Caldari Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.06.08 15:18:00 -
[83]
Originally by: LordSwift
I am not against people with genuine skills and reasons to come and work here. But when you see 75% of fast food, take away staff are all foreigners who barely speak english something has to be wrong.
Nope, nothing is wrong.
I can tell you with 100% certainty that you CANNOT get a work visa for a job in McDonalds.
All the "foreigners" you see in McDonalds are students who are studying in the UK, and paying the full international fee rate to their University.
Their student visa allows them to work up to 16 hours a week in order to help make ends meet, or have a bit of cash to go out and enjoy themselves.
The fact that these are "British jobs" that no "British people" want to do, is very telling.
Why does nobody here want to flip burgers for ú5 an hour?
Because it's a crap job, that's why.
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Akima Tucker
Minmatar Universal Defence Industries
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Posted - 2009.06.08 17:55:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Tallaran Kouros Nope, nothing is wrong.
I can tell you with 100% certainty that you CANNOT get a work visa for a job in McDonalds.
All the "foreigners" you see in McDonalds are students who are studying in the UK, and paying the full international fee rate to their University.
Their student visa allows them to work up to 16 hours a week in order to help make ends meet, or have a bit of cash to go out and enjoy themselves.
The fact that these are "British jobs" that no "British people" want to do, is very telling.
Why does nobody here want to flip burgers for ú5 an hour?
Because it's a crap job, that's why.[/quote
I would disagree with allthe internationals working in McD's are students, I would agree a fair proportion are. However, its something of a double edged sword - you're right not wants to flip burgers for minimum wage - but surely if the internationals were not so keen to work for minimum wage, the restaurants would be forced to pay more and this might be more of an attraction to native workers and McDonaldÆs for example saw a fair rise in profits last year Linky
I do think we Brits have got into a situation of resting on our laurels - we sit back and still think we are something special because of who we are and the unskilled or semi-skilled workforce is taking the brunt of the impact of non-native workers.
To give you an example - I use two gangs for the ground-works for my engineering projects - one is native (a Scot and an Englishman) the other from eastern Europe (not Polish btw), these teams are almost identical in age, the tools & equipment and the pay they get. At the end of the day my eastern European team will have completed about 30-40% more work than the British team. Now the Brits arenÆt lazy, they wouldnÆt still be working for me if they were, nor is the quality lower from the non-natives, in some cases its better (not always).
If this is a situation that is repeated across the country û this is going to lead to more jobless Brits, which will only push more and more people toward parties like the BNP, who support a removal.
If someone can legally work here û you have to employ people on their merits, not their race/origin (we are not in 60Æs America or Apartheid South Africa). Now if this forces the native workforce to take a long hard look at themselves, then nothing will (but I strongly support training for people who are unemployed to better themselves, rather than just sit at home, complaining who the country has gone to the dogs).
However, I cannot blame the BNP for winning seats in Europe. I didnÆt vote, so who is more at fault?
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Lonzo Kincaid
Duty.
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Posted - 2009.06.08 19:51:00 -
[85]
WTB: Civil War |
ReaperOfSly
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.06.08 20:40:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Lonzo Kincaid WTB: Civil War
We have one brewing, should be ready for delivery by October. ____________________
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari Naqam Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.06.08 20:51:00 -
[87]
Maybe if there was a party that isn't one of the big three (they've had their day if we're being honest) and not some stupid anti-EU independance party (sorry UKIP, BNP) I might actually vote.
I hate UK politics.
- Contagious - |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.06.08 21:20:00 -
[88]
Originally by: baltec1 Edited by: baltec1 on 07/06/2009 23:18:50 The conservatives just won wales...
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uzumoreru
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Posted - 2009.06.08 22:03:00 -
[89]
So, how many of those cabinet ministers jumped before they were pushed? Certainly the Europe minister, Brown wanted to move her somewhere else, but she wanted to stay where she was, so she took her ball home (Childish sow). There were Blears and Smith, both of whom are varying levels of incompetent, and both who were in at the deep end due to expenses.
I see this less as a part rebellion, and more as taking the opportunity to cleave the deadwood. Sure Brown may have the charisma of a loaf of bread, but a lot of this beating on him is overstated at best, and at worst, deliberate misinterpretation of information on the part of the media.
Anyone in power as he is with the fallout from recession combined with the expenses row is going to come under fire, but is the alternative any better? (Ignoring their rhetoric because to be honest bad times for the country always suits the challenging parties; 'We wouldn't be in this mess if we were in power' type sentiment, but do any of them have comprehensive plans to stabilize the economy and reform the expenses system? I doubt it.)
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Constantine Arcanum
IMPERIAL SENATE Initiative Associates
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Posted - 2009.06.08 22:39:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Motaka I'm not ashamed to admit that i voted for the BNP.
it's not a shame you voted for the BNP, don't worry. It's a ****ing disgrace! |
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