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Voculus
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.06.09 11:24:00 -
[31]
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Zargyl
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.09 13:39:00 -
[32]
Quite an interesting calculation and I do like the idea of the quite fitting role as a super-carrier for other ships. |
Tobruk
Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.06.10 01:00:00 -
[33]
Im surprised at you Yaay, why should we just accept that these awesome ships will simply suck till eve dies.
I know ccp is capable of making something great out of them, maybe not what i proposed, but at least something. |
Yaay
Reikoku KenZoku
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Posted - 2009.06.10 03:21:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Tobruk Im surprised at you Yaay, why should we just accept that these awesome ships will simply suck till eve dies.
I know ccp is capable of making something great out of them, maybe not what i proposed, but at least something.
I agree with you completely. But Why support an Idea the devs have made clear won't happen. Come up with one that might. The HP argument I support, but there's another thread that already covers that.
I don't disagree with you, I've just accepted that the dev's would rather cater to the hello kitty players than the player's who kicked off the game for them. |
Kurik Chryllos
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.10 03:25:00 -
[35]
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Bary OBama
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Posted - 2009.06.10 18:32:00 -
[36]
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr Corp 1 Allstars
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Posted - 2009.06.10 23:05:00 -
[37]
Motherships dock? Never. |
Uronksur Suth
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.06.11 00:16:00 -
[38]
I like the ideas, and your solutions seem alright as far as I can tell. I just don't agree with Motherships docking.
And since they can't dock, and they have their own fitting service, it seems reasonable that they should be allowed to change their own mods. Just disallow changing fitting in combat. Maybe disable mod changing until the aggression timer expires?
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Hyrieus
Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.11 02:05:00 -
[39]
It's all well and good theory crafting this stuff but it's very hard for CCP to implement and it doesn't do too much.
Make remote reps better for motherships than they are on carriers, give motherships the same non-focused interdiction immunity that T3 ships can get, and make triage better on motherships than carriers.
It's simple enough for CCP to implement, makes logical sense in their role as a "super carrier", and isn't too ridiculously strong. |
Tobruk
Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.06.11 02:23:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Hyrieus It's all well and good theory crafting this stuff but it's very hard for CCP to implement and it doesn't do too much.
Make remote reps better for motherships than they are on carriers, give motherships the same non-focused interdiction immunity that T3 ships can get, and make triage better on motherships than carriers.
It's simple enough for CCP to implement, makes logical sense in their role as a "super carrier", and isn't too ridiculously strong.
good ideas but pointless without a jump range boost and an HP boost ----------------------------------------------
Sig removed. Elmo Pug removed my sig because he hates me
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Hyrieus
Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.11 20:35:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Tobruk
Originally by: Hyrieus It's all well and good theory crafting this stuff but it's very hard for CCP to implement and it doesn't do too much.
Make remote reps better for motherships than they are on carriers, give motherships the same non-focused interdiction immunity that T3 ships can get, and make triage better on motherships than carriers.
It's simple enough for CCP to implement, makes logical sense in their role as a "super carrier", and isn't too ridiculously strong.
good ideas but pointless without a jump range boost and an HP boost
Jump range boost I can agree with, but I'd rather see motherships recieve double or even triple the reps from remote reps than an hp boost. The Aeon can already get 10mil ish eHP.
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Shaleen
Beach Boys BeachBoys
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Posted - 2009.06.12 07:54:00 -
[42]
Supported... again Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
VIncent Vance
Taurus Inc
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Posted - 2009.06.12 10:05:00 -
[43]
Supported.... MS buff means more lowsec hotdrops on teh gankzbearzzz ftw!...
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Jean
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2009.06.12 10:50:00 -
[44]
Some of these ideas would make sense if tuned to proportion, but most of em are ridiculous carebear ideas:
* No cloak delay * Planet sized cargo/ship bays * Imunity to warp disruption * Super ECM
GTFO... MS', like Titans, are just shiny epeen extenders tbh...
I wish Lark wud shine his lite on the subject... |
Tobruk
Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.06.13 03:52:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Jean Some of these ideas would make sense if tuned to proportion, but most of em are ridiculous carebear ideas:
* No cloak delay * Planet sized cargo/ship bays * Imunity to warp disruption * Super ECM
GTFO... MS', like Titans, are just shiny epeen extenders tbh...
I wish Lark wud shine his lite on the subject...
not sure weather you are proposing the ideas above or ridiculing them. but i rather like the suggestion of being unable to tackle super caps without a focused point and i don't think its care bear at all. |
Dav Varan
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Posted - 2009.06.15 18:44:00 -
[46]
All eve ships offer diminishing returns for isk invested.
A cruiser cost 10x - 30x times the amount of a frig A cruiser is ~2x - 3x more powerful than a frig
A Battleship costs 15x the amount of a cruiser A Battleship is ~2x - 3x more powerful than a cruiser
A Carrier costs 10x the amount of a Battleship A Carrier is ~2x - 3x more powerful than a Battleship
A Mothership cost 15x the amount of a Carrier A Mothership is ~2x - 3x more powerful than a Carrier.
Conclusion
Mothership are balanced.
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Slave 2739FKZ
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Posted - 2009.06.15 19:08:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Dav Varan All eve ships offer diminishing returns for isk invested.
A cruiser cost 10x - 30x times the amount of a frig A cruiser is ~2x - 3x more powerful than a frig
A Battleship costs 15x the amount of a cruiser A Battleship is ~2x - 3x more powerful than a cruiser
A Carrier costs 10x the amount of a Battleship A Carrier is ~2x - 3x more powerful than a Battleship
A Mothership cost 15x the amount of a Carrier A Mothership is ~2x - 3x more powerful than a Carrier.
Conclusion
Mothership are balanced.
Your proportions, they are wrong. |
Tobruk
Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.06.16 03:37:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Dav Varan
A Mothership cost 15x the amount of a Carrier A Mothership is ~2x - 3x more powerful than a Carrier.
Conclusion
Mothership are balanced.
if you had bothered to read the op you would see that you are wrong. MS are more expensive and in many ways weaker or the same as a carrier
less jumprange
same rep and rr ammount
same per drone DPS
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Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente Imperial Tau Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.06.16 09:12:00 -
[49]
Quote:
same per drone DPS
It has more drones, it does not need grater per drone dps. It is either more drones, either more dps per drone, not both at the same time.
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Dav Varan
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Posted - 2009.06.16 16:51:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Tobruk
Originally by: Dav Varan
A Mothership cost 15x the amount of a Carrier A Mothership is ~2x - 3x more powerful than a Carrier.
Conclusion
Mothership are balanced.
if you had bothered to read the op you would see that you are wrong. MS are more expensive and in many ways weaker or the same as a carrier
less jumprange
same rep and rr ammount
same per drone DPS
A jumprange boost would not make MS overpowered, having a range the same as carriers would be reasonable , but jumping clear across the galaxy in 1 jump as suggested by your jumpdrive/mass hypothesis is clearly insane.
MS have more slots enabling more cap recharge or resists , effectivelly increasing sustainable rr or effecitve local rep or recived rr
MS can launch more drones than a carrier. per drone damage is irrelevant.
MS are 2x - 3x times more powerful than a carrier as can be expected for there 15x pricetag.
MS are not broken , Its just your expectations as too what 15B isk should buy that is broken.
Originally by: Slave 2739FKZ
Originally by: Dav Varan All eve ships offer diminishing returns for isk invested.
A cruiser cost 10x - 30x times the amount of a frig A cruiser is ~2x - 3x more powerful than a frig
A Battleship costs 15x the amount of a cruiser A Battleship is ~2x - 3x more powerful than a cruiser
A Carrier costs 10x the amount of a Battleship A Carrier is ~2x - 3x more powerful than a Battleship
A Mothership cost 15x the amount of a Carrier A Mothership is ~2x - 3x more powerful than a Carrier.
Conclusion
Mothership are balanced.
Your proportions, they are wrong.
There are many different frigs/cruisers/bs making direct comparion difficult. My proportions are very appoximate to illustrate a point.
If you would like to make a graph of firepower+defence / isk cost for a more accurate analysis, please continue.
"All eve ships offer diminishing returns for isk invested." <<< This is the important fact to keep in mind
If the relationship of isk to firepower were linear eve would have been won long ago by either Entity or Khatred pressing a button in a planet sized death star for a galaxy wide smartbomb that wiped out every ship/pod/station/clone in existence!!
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Red Raider
Caldari Airbourne Demons DeMoN's N AnGeL's
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Posted - 2009.06.16 17:28:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Yaay I don't disagree with you, I've just accepted that the dev's would rather cater to the hello kitty players than the player's who kicked off the game for them.
WOW!
Your not going to shoot your parents if they take away EVE are you? |
Tobruk
Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.06.17 03:27:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Tobruk on 17/06/2009 03:28:57 Edited by: Tobruk on 17/06/2009 03:27:34
Originally by: Dav Varan A jumprange boost would not make MS overpowered, having a range the same as carriers would be reasonable
well we are making some progress here but what about my diminishing returns? it should be 2X better at least right?
the reps should be 2 to 3 times better as well (both rr and local)
dont really know how not being able to dock factors into your caclulation of "times better" but lets make the motherhip compensate for that somehow by lets say, adding HP or being able to refit solo.
I agree completely with what you are saying and i think what you propose is a good start. CCP please make motherhsips 2-3x more powerful than a carrier and not worse or the same - thanks ----------------------------------------------
Sig removed. Elmo Pug removed my sig because he hates me
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