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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Gallion
Outer Sector IDENTITY UNKN0WN
537
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Posted - 2012.05.15 05:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
Well its not something ive seen much debate about so I figured Id make the topic.
Insurances for Faction, T2, T3 Just isnt worth dealing with. Its better to Insure to PLATINUM but for the price in most cases of doing so could go to Quick replacing during a large fight(for example). Id like to see some sort of average % off the market value put into the Insurances. since getting concordokened is no longer a way to get the claim of it, I can't see their being a reason to not change it.
T3 bing a major hit on 3 fronts, (subsystem SP hit, Insurances, Isk) they dont come cheap, and losing them can be a pain and the isk for its platinum is like 1-2% of actual marketed hard-worked value. This is a Signature, It makes people Stare. (Man I gotta Make one , or Find one to steal) |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
669
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 06:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
Gallion wrote:Well its not something ive seen much debate about so I figured Id make the topic.
Insurances for Faction, T2, T3 Just isnt worth dealing with. Its better to Insure to PLATINUM but for the price in most cases of doing so could go to Quick replacing during a large fight(for example). Id like to see some sort of average % off the market value put into the Insurances. since getting concordokened is no longer a way to get the claim of it, I can't see their being a reason to not change it.
T3 bing a major hit on 3 fronts, (subsystem SP hit, Insurances, Isk) they dont come cheap, and losing them can be a pain and the isk for its platinum is like 1-2% of actual marketed hard-worked value.
T2, T3, and Faction ship insurance is supposed to be terrible. If you got back most of their ISK value after losing them, why would you ever fly a non-faction T1 ship?
And yeah... T3s do deserve to hurt more than the others. A ship that can cloak like a Force Recon, put out HAC-like dps, warp through bubbles, and still have a sub-battleship tank does not deserve harsher penalties at all. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Gallion
Outer Sector IDENTITY UNKN0WN
539
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Posted - 2012.05.15 07:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
true, but the amount you get back, to get into the fight that you lost your ship in, which if its a mission would mean you'd have to ask for isk or cancel the mission or sell something you really wanted to keep. Non-T1 ships need a lil more then whats is provided from their Platinum. 13mill insurance from a loss of a T3 lost in battle would only give enough to get a ship with Poorest of fittings *(if u consider only having a low Wallet att) it wouldnt be enough to return to battle of mission and would only Marginally be effective in a large scale pvp. This is a Signature, It makes people Stare. (Man I gotta Make one , or Find one to steal) |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
669
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 07:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
It's supposed to be that way. The insurance price is calculated based on market mineral prices... not the extra components that go into T2 and T3 ships. And Faction ships are expensive for entirely different reasons.
Also... for T1 ships, insurance is supposed to cushion loss, not remove it. Loss is supposed to hurt. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Gallion
Outer Sector IDENTITY UNKN0WN
539
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 07:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
perhaps, but it should still be higher, T1 included. Otherwise Insuring Anything but T1 is just utterly pointless. This is a Signature, It makes people Stare. (Man I gotta Make one , or Find one to steal) |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
669
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 07:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
Gallion wrote:perhaps, but it should still be higher, T1 included. Why? I see no reason to give people "free ships"
History lesson: there was a time when there was such a thing as "free ships." Insurance was set at a "fixed" payout which, whenever mineral prices dropped low enough, allowed people to buy T1 ships, insure them, and self-destruct. It got to a point where people were making a PROFIT off of buying ships off the market and blowing them up. The DEVs eventually took action and "nerfed" the insurance system it to what it is now. Rates are adjusted on a monthly(?) basis.
Gallion wrote:Otherwise Insuring Anything but T1 is just utterly pointless. I'm pretty certain that's the point. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Gallion
Outer Sector IDENTITY UNKN0WN
539
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 07:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
then, why not make the payout automaticly the default.and remove the insurance purposes. and of course FIXED got abused, this aint a thread for Fixed. its for Market Adjusted % based on the Entirety of Eve's Average percentage used as a stick to give better payout to Non-T1 ships. to actually Give INSURANCE its purpose that it was implemented for. This is a Signature, It makes people Stare. (Man I gotta Make one , or Find one to steal) |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
669
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 08:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
Gallion wrote:then, why not make the payout automaticly the default.and remove the insurance purposes. Well... Faction ships ARE technically T1... again, their prices are dependent on factors [almost] completely unrelated to minerals.
For T2, T3 ships? I really don't know why they keep the insurance option open for them. My guess is that it's some legacy back-end code that no one really wants to touch.
Gallion wrote:Give INSURANCE its purpose that it was implemented for. You mean as a game mechanic to allow more people to PvP in low-end ships without completely removing risk and screwing the market over? Yeah... EVE insurance =/= real insurance. Not by a long shot. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
JitaPriceChecker2
State War Academy Caldari State
148
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Posted - 2012.05.15 15:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
Op is dense and everything is working as intended regarding faction t2,t3 insurance.
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Gallion
Outer Sector IDENTITY UNKN0WN
540
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Posted - 2012.05.15 16:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
No, It really isnt. This is a Signature, It makes people Stare. (Man I gotta Make one , or Find one to steal) |
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Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
582
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 16:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
Gallion wrote:No, It really isnt.
Yes it is...its called don't fly what you can't afford to lose. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
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Gallion
Outer Sector IDENTITY UNKN0WN
540
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 22:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
wow is that the only thing you have to say? you think i dont know that. the Insurance is a Broken Function. like CSPA. This is a Signature, It makes people Stare. (Man I gotta Make one , or Find one to steal) |
Mallak Azaria
xX-Crusader-Xx Luna Sanguinem
79
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Posted - 2012.05.18 13:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
Gallion wrote:Well its not something ive seen much debate about so I figured Id make the topic.
Insurances for Faction, T2, T3 Just isnt worth dealing with. Its better to Insure to PLATINUM but for the price in most cases of doing so could go to Quick replacing during a large fight(for example). Id like to see some sort of average % off the market value put into the Insurances. since getting concordokened is no longer a way to get the claim of it, I can't see their being a reason to not change it.
T3 bing a major hit on 3 fronts, (subsystem SP hit, Insurances, Isk) they dont come cheap, and losing them can be a pain and the isk for its platinum is like 1-2% of actual marketed hard-worked value.
I've often supported better insurance payouts for T2 ships, but lately I've begun to see the opposite side of the coin. Flying T2, T3 & Faction ships should be risky in regard to insurance. It comes down to the most basic rule of EVE, don't fly what you can't afford to replace. I know it sounds harsh, but EVE is a harsh game.
Not supporting. |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
592
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Posted - 2012.05.18 14:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
Gallion wrote:wow is that the only thing you have to say? you think i dont know that. the Insurance is a Broken Function. like CSPA.
If you want free ships then maybe you should do a better job at managing your finances. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
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Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
761
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 18:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
The only thing that isn't working right with insurance IMO is you still get payed if you SD.
Also... not sure about if you get killed by the Faction Police. IMO it should be removed there too.
But for T2/3/faction, its fine. Its based on minerals, not on market averages. |
Gallion
Outer Sector IDENTITY UNKN0WN
540
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 23:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
based on minerals? lol, not it isnt. Thats why Its broken. This is a Signature, It makes people Stare. (Man I gotta Make one , or Find one to steal) |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
762
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 03:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
Gallion wrote:based on minerals? lol, not it isnt. Thats why Its broken. Um, yes its based on mineral prices (give or take a few weeks for adjustment). Thats why T2/3/faction insurance is crap. Their mineral cost is low compared to other factors. |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
597
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 04:43:00 -
[18] - Quote
Gallion wrote:based on minerals? lol, not it isnt. Thats why Its broken.
Not very bright are you. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
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Gallion
Outer Sector IDENTITY UNKN0WN
541
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 07:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
T2 requires in most cases their T1 Counter part, T3 Requires Materials are mostly in wormholes dropped or found via sleepers and their salvage and materials arent cheap, Faction sometimes requires other sources of Items (T2 also in that reguard), and when actually building them they Use MORE minerals then their T1 counterparts. Therfore is still far out of their Insurance Value. So I say again how is it based on mineral? T1 Is a Cushion on insurance, but thats mostly Crusier -to- Some Capitolships. Faction,T2,T3 Dont have a Effecient use of Insurance to do so. So we go back to my point that it is broken. The Funciton should be removed set loses of T1 Ship to Default a Platinum pay out. instead of sinking further isk just to get a slightly higher amount back. when your default of non-T1 ships cant even Pay a proper portion of its Counterpart towards it Actual Platinum payout.
@ Drake Draconis, apparently neither are you - atleast I know what im talking about.
This is a Signature, It makes people Stare. (Man I gotta Make one , or Find one to steal) |
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
656
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 08:00:00 -
[20] - Quote
Tbh I say get rid of insurance altogether. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
707
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 08:34:00 -
[21] - Quote
Gallion wrote:T2 requires in most cases their T1 Counter part, T3 Requires Materials are mostly in wormholes dropped or found via sleepers and their salvage and materials arent cheap, Faction sometimes requires other sources of Items (T2 also in that reguard), and when actually building them they Use MORE minerals then their T1 counterparts. Therfore is still far out of their Insurance Value. So I say again how is it based on mineral? T1 Is a Cushion on insurance, but thats mostly Crusier -to- Some Capitolships. Faction,T2,T3 Dont have a Effecient use of Insurance to do so. So we go back to my point that it is broken. The Funciton should be removed set loses of T1 Ship to Default a Platinum pay out. instead of sinking further isk just to get a slightly higher amount back. when your default of non-T1 ships cant even Pay a proper portion of its Counterpart towards it Actual Platinum payout.
@ Drake Draconis, apparently neither are you - atleast I know what im talking about. No... you you obviously don't. This post pretty much proves it. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
600
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 14:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Gallion wrote:T2 requires in most cases their T1 Counter part, T3 Requires Materials are mostly in wormholes dropped or found via sleepers and their salvage and materials arent cheap, Faction sometimes requires other sources of Items (T2 also in that reguard), and when actually building them they Use MORE minerals then their T1 counterparts. Therfore is still far out of their Insurance Value. So I say again how is it based on mineral? T1 Is a Cushion on insurance, but thats mostly Crusier -to- Some Capitolships. Faction,T2,T3 Dont have a Effecient use of Insurance to do so. So we go back to my point that it is broken. The Funciton should be removed set loses of T1 Ship to Default a Platinum pay out. instead of sinking further isk just to get a slightly higher amount back. when your default of non-T1 ships cant even Pay a proper portion of its Counterpart towards it Actual Platinum payout.
@ Drake Draconis, apparently neither are you - atleast I know what im talking about. No... you you obviously don't. This post pretty much proves it.
Agreed....not sure where hes getting his data either...too many assumptions. But we kinda knew that from the start. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
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Gallion
Outer Sector IDENTITY UNKN0WN
541
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 16:10:00 -
[23] - Quote
my data comes from Experiance as I can & Do produce T1, T2, T3 & Faction Ships.
& Rico thats what ive been trying to say man. This is a Signature, It makes people Stare. (Man I gotta Make one , or Find one to steal) |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
600
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 16:20:00 -
[24] - Quote
Gallion wrote:my data comes from Experiance as I can & Do produce T1, T2, T3 & Faction Ships.
& Rico thats what ive been trying to say man.
Industry does not orbit around your ego. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
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Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
70
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 17:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
I was just wondering if the op knew that CCP had assigned each and every item a base value, (which is not directly market related, but does influence the market) which in turn is one of the ways that CCP developed the loot drop system and insurance pay outs and the like.
However, because Minerals no longer (and they once upon a time did) have NPC buy orders, and other items are not seeded by NPCs on to the market, these base costs have become player driven.
The base values help decide how often they are available, and to a certain extent how plentiful they are. When you have a uneven distribution of materials you get huge market forces that drive up costs. Technium is an r32 moon, it has a base cost of 64 isk per unit.
It is my reasoning, although not confirmed, that T2 and t3 insurance pay outs are based on these numbers and not player driven market numbers. t2 which use a t1 ship in construction, have that factored in as well, the t1 ship being player mineral index prices. Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Ships to goo calc - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=107898 |
Gallion
Outer Sector IDENTITY UNKN0WN
541
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 18:31:00 -
[26] - Quote
Kusum could you possible further Elaborate?
@Draco- My ego? who keeps coming back to the topic with out any Information.
This is a Signature, It makes people Stare. (Man I gotta Make one , or Find one to steal) |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
601
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 18:47:00 -
[27] - Quote
Gallion wrote: Kusum could you possible further Elaborate?
@Draco- My ego? who keeps coming back to the topic with out any Information.
I don't provide informaiton that has already been provided....nor do I give information that smells of bitter-emo-rage over losing Tech 3 ships because he couldn't insure his expensive shiny toys cause he didn't know how to fly them. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
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Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
629
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 20:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:I don't provide informaiton that has already been provided....nor do I give information that smells of bitter-emo-rage over losing Tech 3 ships because he couldn't insure his expensive shiny toys cause he didn't know how to fly them.
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111oneoneeleven
Seriously, you're not the one that should be talking about ships he lost because he didn't know how to fly them. Need I remind you of the incidence of you losing your mission ship (PvE fit) by engaging a ninja-salvager (PvP fit) and crying about it for weeks? Or the fact you need a 20+ man fleet to kill anything other than yourself? Or you being responsible for losing a Freighter you were escorting?
Note to everyone: Anything Draconis says in reference to anything remotely associated with combat is irrelevant. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
601
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 21:00:00 -
[29] - Quote
Jack Carrigan wrote:Drake Draconis wrote:I don't provide informaiton that has already been provided....nor do I give information that smells of bitter-emo-rage over losing Tech 3 ships because he couldn't insure his expensive shiny toys cause he didn't know how to fly them. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111oneoneeleven Seriously, you're not the one that should be talking about ships he lost because he didn't know how to fly them. Need I remind you of the incidence of you losing your mission ship (PvE fit) by engaging a ninja-salvager (PvP fit) and crying about it for weeks? Or the fact you need a 20+ man fleet to kill anything other than yourself? Or you being responsible for losing a Freighter you were escorting? Note to everyone: Anything Draconis says in reference to anything remotely associated with combat is irrelevant.
Uh..yeah..thanks for agreeing with my sentiments....I never complained about it here on the forums.
So yeah...nice job Jack *thumbs up*
And everyone throws a fit about losing expensive ships in private. So I'm not sure WTF your going on about Jack..but then your always going off on people without regard for personal sense of rationality.
PS: Who gives a flying #### what we lose in-game....thats not the point of discusison since your so eager to kick dirt up. Get over yourself jack. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
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Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
629
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Posted - 2012.05.21 21:08:00 -
[30] - Quote
Alright, first off, put the thumb that you always have firmly lodged up your *** back up there before any more of your ****posting escapes. Secondly, why do you pay for EVE? You don't play, you pay to post on forums, as always, Mr. Keyboard Warrior. Thirdly, it's obvious that anything you have done is a massive fail (see: Failcascade of Shadow Confederation). And finally, it is severely obvious that you lack the cajones to actually do anything yourself (see: Failcascade of Shadow Cadre after Drake removed 3.7 billion ISK from the corp wallet to settle a vendetta against one person because he was too much of a chicken**** to do it himself).
But, I'm sure you'll enjoy paying your $14.99 a month to continue to post on the forums, not play EVE, and be one of Goonswarm Federation's pets.
Do us all a favor, quit talking about things that you have no idea about how they work, or how they should work. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |
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