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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
629
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Posted - 2012.05.21 21:10:00 -
[31] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:Jack Carrigan wrote:Drake Draconis wrote:I don't provide informaiton that has already been provided....nor do I give information that smells of bitter-emo-rage over losing Tech 3 ships because he couldn't insure his expensive shiny toys cause he didn't know how to fly them. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111oneoneeleven Seriously, you're not the one that should be talking about ships he lost because he didn't know how to fly them. Need I remind you of the incidence of you losing your mission ship (PvE fit) by engaging a ninja-salvager (PvP fit) and crying about it for weeks? Or the fact you need a 20+ man fleet to kill anything other than yourself? Or you being responsible for losing a Freighter you were escorting? Note to everyone: Anything Draconis says in reference to anything remotely associated with combat is irrelevant. Uh..yeah..thanks for agreeing with my sentiments....I never complained about it here on the forums. So yeah...nice job Jack *thumbs up* And everyone throws a fit about losing expensive ships in private. So I'm not sure WTF you're going on about Jack..but then you're always going off on people without regard for personal sense of rationality. PS: Who gives a flying #### what we lose in-game.... that's not the point of discusison since you're so eager to kick dirt up. Get over yourself jack.
Fixed that for you.
As for rationality, how rational is it to not consult your corpmates about removing 3.7 billion ISK that THEY worked to earn, because everyone knows you never did a ****ing thing to help anyone, from your Corp wallet to settle a personal vendetta?
Oh wait, it's not, no wonder you're a pet. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
601
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Posted - 2012.05.21 21:16:00 -
[32] - Quote
Jack Carrigan wrote:Drake Draconis wrote:Jack Carrigan wrote:Drake Draconis wrote:I don't provide informaiton that has already been provided....nor do I give information that smells of bitter-emo-rage over losing Tech 3 ships because he couldn't insure his expensive shiny toys cause he didn't know how to fly them. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111oneoneeleven Seriously, you're not the one that should be talking about ships he lost because he didn't know how to fly them. Need I remind you of the incidence of you losing your mission ship (PvE fit) by engaging a ninja-salvager (PvP fit) and crying about it for weeks? Or the fact you need a 20+ man fleet to kill anything other than yourself? Or you being responsible for losing a Freighter you were escorting? Note to everyone: Anything Draconis says in reference to anything remotely associated with combat is irrelevant. Uh..yeah..thanks for agreeing with my sentiments....I never complained about it here on the forums. So yeah...nice job Jack *thumbs up* And everyone throws a fit about losing expensive ships in private. So I'm not sure WTF you're going on about Jack..but then you're always going off on people without regard for personal sense of rationality. PS: Who gives a flying #### what we lose in-game.... that's not the point of discusison since you're so eager to kick dirt up. Get over yourself jack. Fixed that for you. As for rationality, how rational is it to not consult your corpmates about removing 3.7 billion ISK that THEY worked to earn, because everyone knows you never did a ****ing thing to help anyone, from your Corp wallet to settle a personal vendetta? Oh wait, it's not, no wonder you're a pet.
What the ####ing hell does that have to do with the current topic Jack? Or did you forget that we're talking about ship insurance? ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
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Angry Onions
League of Angered Gentlemen Infernal Creations
224
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Posted - 2012.05.21 21:21:00 -
[33] - Quote
Ok so, lets get this sorted out real quick: 1) The insurance system is currently broken as it doesn't even cover the cost of Tech 1 ships any more due (varies a bit by region, but typically max insurance only covers about 70% of ship hull, it used to cover the cost of the hull). 2) This thread is solid proof that Draconis has a leaky ******* cause he can't stop shitposting. Really, get some medicine for that. E .-+ ` ' / -+. F Your Carebear tears fuel us
Heil Hizzle Mein Nizzles. |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
601
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Posted - 2012.05.21 21:26:00 -
[34] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:I was just wondering if the op knew that CCP had assigned each and every item a base value, (which is not directly market related, but does influence the market) which in turn is one of the ways that CCP developed the loot drop system and insurance pay outs and the like.
However, because Minerals no longer (and they once upon a time did) have NPC buy orders, and other items are not seeded by NPCs on to the market, these base costs have become player driven.
The base values help decide how often they are available, and to a certain extent how plentiful they are. When you have a uneven distribution of materials you get huge market forces that drive up costs. Technium is an r32 moon, it has a base cost of 64 isk per unit.
It is my reasoning, although not confirmed, that T2 and t3 insurance pay outs are based on these numbers and not player driven market numbers. t2 which use a t1 ship in construction, have that factored in as well, the t1 ship being player mineral index prices.
You people should learn to read.
Because this said it all.
Everyone seems to have "opinions" on the matter yet you refuse to pick up on the subtle differences.
Seriously...grow up people. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
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Eidric
Shadows of HyperSpace Wormholes Holders
19
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Posted - 2012.05.21 21:28:00 -
[35] - Quote
Rico Minali wrote:Tbh I say get rid of insurance altogether.
I think insurance needs to serve a specific function, which it currently serves well - New player cushion.
It is there to protect your most basic (t1) assets, usually because these are literally "bottom of the food chain"
As such I think it would be viable to keep insurance only for newbie friendly ships:
T1 Frigates, Destroyers, Cruisers, Battlecruisers, and Battleships.
Cut insurance for any T2 T3 as well as capitals (CONCORD should not pamper you if you can afford them)
That way new players would have less painful losses, while older and richer players would go for more bang at more risk. |
Domwav II
Mare Tranquillitatis Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
2
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Posted - 2012.05.21 21:34:00 -
[36] - Quote
1) General readership, Insurance does need to be fixed, it is a mechanic of the game that is currently broken. CCP seems to be pretty good at handling that lately, so I expect to see changes soon enough now that it's getting some forum attention.
2) Drake and Jack: Please don't let your antics give CCP an excuse to lock this thread. They may have renewed some of my faith, but I don't want to risk it.
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Angry Onions
League of Angered Gentlemen Infernal Creations
224
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Posted - 2012.05.21 22:12:00 -
[37] - Quote
Shah has stated how it works as it is now, but, as more than one person has stated, it is currently broken. Hopefully CCP will keep up this good idea streak going and fix this. I am just fine with insurance covering the hull of ship alone, that makes sense. Covering less than hull makes it not worth it and covering more than hull is just dumb. So, lets sit and watch the fire burn shall we? E .-+ ` ' / -+. F Your Carebear tears fuel us
Heil Hizzle Mein Nizzles. |
Gallion
Outer Sector IDENTITY UNKN0WN
541
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Posted - 2012.05.21 22:41:00 -
[38] - Quote
thanks to those whom Understand that Insurance is indeed broken. for those that continue to come back and "Lack of explain" how it is not. Let me point that Unless you can break the Process down on to how it aint, just stop.
Ive already broken it down to "How to understand Loses to Dummies" degree of reading. and Draco stop you dont know enough to complain.
if T1 platinum payout cannot be included into a loss of T2/faction ship then it is "Broken", infact Newbies tend to get into T3 Hulls pretty Early (it only takes 4 months @ best) to fly and fit minimal t2 on them.
@Anitic-ist, See X on top Right most of Browser, hit that -thank you.
@ CSM & CCP, Please Lock this thread if it continues to heat-up and Fall from topic, -thank you. This is a Signature, It makes people Stare. (Man I gotta Make one , or Find one to steal) |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
767
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Posted - 2012.05.22 03:17:00 -
[39] - Quote
Insurance was never intended to cover T2/3/faction ships.
It is currently based on the mineral market value (not sure if average over region or as a while). It comes to about 70% of the T1 cost, which is what CCP intended. It covers only the mineral value. Not value of salvage Not value of tags. Not value of LP. Not value of moon goo. Not value of industrialist markup. Only the mineral value.
This is how CCP fixed it to be, and intended it to be. Therefore it cannot be broken. Just because it isn't how you want it doesn't make it broken.
There, that simplified enough? |
Gallion
Outer Sector IDENTITY UNKN0WN
541
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Posted - 2012.05.22 04:41:00 -
[40] - Quote
simple yes, broken yes. your point also makes mine. This is a Signature, It makes people Stare. (Man I gotta Make one , or Find one to steal) |
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Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
772
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Posted - 2012.05.22 18:46:00 -
[41] - Quote
Gallion wrote:simple yes, broken yes. your point also makes mine. No my point specifically refutes yours.
It is as it is designed and intended, therefore it is not broken. You just don't like the way CCP wants it. Oh well, deal with it. |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
603
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Posted - 2012.05.22 19:17:00 -
[42] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:Gallion wrote:simple yes, broken yes. your point also makes mine. No my point specifically refutes yours. It is as it is designed and intended, therefore it is not broken. You just don't like the way CCP wants it. Oh well, deal with it.
Agreed. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
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Gallion
Outer Sector IDENTITY UNKN0WN
541
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Posted - 2012.05.22 21:32:00 -
[43] - Quote
lol, I am. Im here, i made the topic, on it cause for the years that ive been playing and in the industry I know its broken. you say it refutes but obviously you typed something in that also makes mine. This is a Signature, It makes people Stare. (Man I gotta Make one , or Find one to steal) |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
603
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Posted - 2012.05.22 21:34:00 -
[44] - Quote
Gallion wrote:lol, I am. Im here, i made the topic, on it cause for the years that ive been playing and in the industry I know its broken. you say it refutes but obviously you typed something in that also makes mine.
I'm sorry...but that just does not make any sense. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
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Gallion
Outer Sector IDENTITY UNKN0WN
541
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Posted - 2012.05.22 21:36:00 -
[45] - Quote
yeh, that not my problem. I fully understand. This is a Signature, It makes people Stare. (Man I gotta Make one , or Find one to steal) |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
603
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Posted - 2012.05.22 22:12:00 -
[46] - Quote
Gallion wrote:yeh, that not my problem. I fully understand.
Of course you understand yourself....you wrote the bloody post. Derp Derp!
How about the rest of us? Eh? ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
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Gallion
Outer Sector IDENTITY UNKN0WN
541
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Posted - 2012.05.23 00:40:00 -
[47] - Quote
go back to page 1. Btw you do Production Often? This is a Signature, It makes people Stare. (Man I gotta Make one , or Find one to steal) |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
774
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Posted - 2012.05.23 02:48:00 -
[48] - Quote
Gallion wrote:lol, I am. Im here, i made the topic, on it cause for the years that ive been playing and in the industry I know its broken. you say it refutes but obviously you typed something in that also makes mine. Yeesh at least type so others can understand...
I'm going to respond to what I think you said.
What I said above refutes what you have claimed. Therefore, it cannot support your claim. Its impossible. Can't do both. |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
604
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Posted - 2012.05.23 03:22:00 -
[49] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:Gallion wrote:lol, I am. Im here, i made the topic, on it cause for the years that ive been playing and in the industry I know its broken. you say it refutes but obviously you typed something in that also makes mine. Yeesh at least type so others can understand... I'm going to respond to what I think you said. What I said above refutes what you have claimed. Therefore, it cannot support your claim. Its impossible. Can't do both.
Psst: Circular Reasoning.
Course its a "Big word" and he may have trouble understanding that. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
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Tiger's Spirit
Troll Hunters INC.
115
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Posted - 2012.05.23 09:02:00 -
[50] - Quote
Gallion wrote:Well its not something ive seen much debate about so I figured Id make the topic.
Insurances for Faction, T2, T3 Just isnt worth dealing with. Its better to Insure to PLATINUM but for the price in most cases of doing so could go to Quick replacing during a large fight(for example). Id like to see some sort of average % off the market value put into the Insurances. since getting concordokened is no longer a way to get the claim of it, I can't see their being a reason to not change it.
T3 bing a major hit on 3 fronts, (subsystem SP hit, Insurances, Isk) they dont come cheap, and losing them can be a pain and the isk for its platinum is like 1-2% of actual marketed hard-worked value.
The best is when a fitted T3 value is 2 billions, but the platinum insurance payback 20 million for you :P
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l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
32
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Posted - 2012.05.23 09:41:00 -
[51] - Quote
So i rad the whole thread, but i still dont get what is broken about T1 Insurances. AFAIK the Insurance is calcualted by the avaerage mineral price from the last X month.
Can someone please dump this down for me?
As for Faction, T2 and T3 insurances, that's a matter of opinion. |
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
32
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Posted - 2012.05.23 09:44:00 -
[52] - Quote
Edit: Ahh, remove post this please. |
Gallion
Outer Sector IDENTITY UNKN0WN
542
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Posted - 2012.05.23 17:09:00 -
[53] - Quote
T2 is Produced with T1 Ship hulls. Faction uses the T1 Hull as Trade with the LP store T3 has Subsystems that should be accounted for into the Insurance of the hull (its not), Cause it cant be flown with out them.
few others seem to be understanding just fine Corin, @ l0rd carlos- nothing is broken with T1 insurance just Insurance in general.
Buy an omen of the market you pay for insurance, you get platinum. now you spent more isk to get around 70% of it back. so you paid total of 12mill, for an 8 mill ship to get only 70% of that 8 mill? and if you instead of selling it later, Put it into T2 version of it that Insurance becomes Null. ^-> i do this often. This is a Signature, It makes people Stare. (Man I gotta Make one , or Find one to steal) |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
777
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Posted - 2012.05.23 19:59:00 -
[54] - Quote
You still haven't explained why it is broken, rather than working as intended.
You just keep spouting your own opinion, mixed with facts that are meaningless. |
Gallion
Outer Sector IDENTITY UNKN0WN
544
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Posted - 2012.05.23 23:40:00 -
[55] - Quote
im sorry you dont understand what ive said on the breakdown of it. But I remain correct that it is broken. T2 SHOULD reflect the T1's Insurance payout. This is a Signature, It makes people Stare. (Man I gotta Make one , or Find one to steal) |
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
634
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Posted - 2012.05.24 00:48:00 -
[56] - Quote
FYI: Opinion does not equate to fact.
Support your point eith cold, hard facts or just stop.
T2s payout covers the T1 hull that is necessary to build a T2. Not the research, the technical upgrades or the additional materials. Sure, it sucks, but it keeps the market going.
"War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
779
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Posted - 2012.05.24 01:59:00 -
[57] - Quote
Gallion wrote:im sorry you dont understand what ive said on the breakdown of it. But I remain correct that it is broken. T2 SHOULD reflect the T1's Insurance payout. As Jack said, your opinion isn't a fact.
The FACT is that CCP has made it the way they currently intend it, so by definition it is NOT broken. |
Gallion
Outer Sector IDENTITY UNKN0WN
544
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Posted - 2012.05.24 02:41:00 -
[58] - Quote
Ive not seen anything convincing me otherwise.
the fact is that ccp has made it the way they currantly intend it? Can you prove that? This is a Signature, It makes people Stare. (Man I gotta Make one , or Find one to steal) |
Gallion
Outer Sector IDENTITY UNKN0WN
544
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Posted - 2012.05.24 02:47:00 -
[59] - Quote
From Evelopedia.
Quote: What this means is that after every set insurance period, an index will be created calculating the trimmed average values for all building materials that are used in the building of ships (minerals, T2 and T3 components) and when a ship is destroyed, this index will be used to calculate the full replacement value of that ship based on the materials required to build it. The player will then receive an amount of ISK that is defined by the:
(value of the ship according to the index) * (percentage of insurance coverage) * (ship type multiplyer)
The ship type multiplier is used to make some ships more expensive to lose then others. For example; a Tier 1 battleship will have a multiplier of 1, therefore receiving the full benefit of the type of insurance bought, but a Titan may have a multiplier of 0.01, thus only granting a fraction of the insurance value. This change will allow insurance to scale along with changes in the market and is meant (among other things) to minimize the risk of insurance fraud.
This is a Signature, It makes people Stare. (Man I gotta Make one , or Find one to steal) |
Gallion
Outer Sector IDENTITY UNKN0WN
544
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Posted - 2012.05.24 02:52:00 -
[60] - Quote
So the T2 Component, the T1 Hull IS NOT being calculated into the T2 Insurance.
Someone tell me where this Ship multiplier they speak of can be found? This is a Signature, It makes people Stare. (Man I gotta Make one , or Find one to steal) |
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