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Gabriel Karade
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
15
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Posted - 2012.05.15 22:28:00 -
[31] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Gabriel Karade wrote:IGGVm of the opinion that, the formula in the link should only be based on the second set of functions. I.e. the missile parameters (explosion velocity divided by explosion radius) which are a constant, multiplied by the target Sig/velocity term. In which case, as a target's velocity ---> 0, itGGVs always going to become a big number, such that the overall damage multiplier gets capped at 1GG* From what I've seen, the second formula is already the main limiter of missile damage. The first formula is just there to make sure that large missiles don't do full damage against webbed/stationary frigates. Meaning, what you're asking for is already in place in practice. Well that is where I was coming from - I don't see the problem of a large missile doing full damage to a stationary target, the Sig/velocity term amply compensates for moving targets and if the first formula were removed it would be one less thing for the server to check.
Just an opinion - I'm hardly what would be considered a 'missile fiend' , perhaps more of a 'recreational user' :]
Gallente MkII: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1227770
War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293 |
Torneach
Emrys Enterprises
107
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Posted - 2012.05.15 22:42:00 -
[32] - Quote
Esan Vartesa wrote:Also, mandatory:
"Give me my black T2 Khanid Torpedo Battleship!!!"
Amen, brother!
I would love to see a black-hulled Abaddon.
Now, all we need is a rework of torpedoes and we'll be set with a ship that looks awesome and is useful.
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nat longshot
New Eden Inc.
12
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Posted - 2012.05.16 02:43:00 -
[33] - Quote
Well now i did not think i would get these many replys nice to see people think missiles need a rework.
Now given i'am a gunner first and desided to try missiles maybe just maybe ccp will read the and think ok maybe we DRopt the ball here so.
HAY CCP DEV'S or GMS whats your take on this? Speak up were waiting. Time for more then just pretty looks for the missles time to give them the teeth to back up all that work.
Btw thanks everyone did not know i open a good topic on this one. well i think its a good topic. |
Dato Koppla
Perkone
Caldari State
21
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Posted - 2012.05.16 05:24:00 -
[34] - Quote
Damage scaling, torps do 1k dps OMGWTF, yada yada. 1 billion dps means nothing if you will never apply it. Just look at the stats, SBs and the Golem, both of which get massive bonus specifically to Torps, are the only used Torp boats. The Raven which appears to be the best Torpedo platform, absolutely sucks with them. |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
332
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Posted - 2012.05.16 05:53:00 -
[35] - Quote
Explosion radius on Torps is too high, you shouldn't need to use a target painter to do full damage against your intended target, which in this case is Battleships. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1489
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Posted - 2012.05.16 07:48:00 -
[36] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote:Use webs and target painters.
Don't shoot frigs.
Hey, does the TP improve things for missile ships? I use them sometimes to get more out of drones but I never looked into how that affects missiles. |
nat longshot
New Eden Inc.
13
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Posted - 2012.05.16 08:21:00 -
[37] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Mashie Saldana wrote:Use webs and target painters.
Don't shoot frigs. Hey, does the TP improve things for missile ships? I use them sometimes to get more out of drones but I never looked into how that affects missiles.
yes it makes your targets sig raids larger so your missiles will do more dmg.
in the testing i did the tp makes a huge plus in dmg on target in testing over 500 points in volley dmg and with 2 tp with rage torp even more given your gettng close the the exp radius of the warhead.
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Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
67
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Posted - 2012.05.16 08:34:00 -
[38] - Quote
Esan Vartesa wrote:The problem is that Torpedoes have the crutch of needing to be balanced not just against other missiles, but for use by stealth bombers. Any boost to them for use by battleships would overpower the SBs. So they suck for BSs.
SBs should never have been designed to use an existing missile type. This kind of interconnected dependency is a huge no-no in game-balance design, as it makes balancing impossible without jumping through ever-more complex hoops.
Maybe a redesign is on order. With more focus on the Bombs rather than Torpedoes. Currently the Bombs are more of a bonus feature and the Torpedoes do most of the damage, no? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6828
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Posted - 2012.05.16 08:40:00 -
[39] - Quote
Esan Vartesa wrote:Also, mandatory:
"Give me my black T2 Khanid Torpedo Battleship!!!" Get in line. Give me my red HAM Roden Myrmidon first!
GG#If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GkmvGkm you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GG%
Shift-click does nothing GGv why the Unified Inventory isn't ready for primetime. |
Soldarius
United Highsec Front
The 99 Percent
219
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Posted - 2012.05.16 09:33:00 -
[40] - Quote
Dedicated missile slinger checking in. One TP on a ship of 400m sigrad is enough to get full damage from the sigrad/expvel part of the damage formula.
The velocity explosion velocity part is compensated for with skills. For example, my Rage torps have an explosion velocity of 91m/s on a manticore without exp vel rigs. So most of the time versus their intended target, rage torpedoes just fine.
The problem comes up when you are shooting anything smaller than 400m or faster than 91m/s. In those cases, CN torps are your choice. Also, in those cases, you probably want some bros along for the ride.
And to make a point, navy torps plus target painter turned on frigates can kill them by the time they get into their weapons range.
"How do you kill that which has no life?" |
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Sidus Isaacs
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
111
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Posted - 2012.05.16 11:42:00 -
[41] - Quote
Ares Tride wrote:Your grasp of written English is supreme.
Oh no! Someone on the forums for a game with players from all over the world is not 100% proficient in English! RAGE!
Get over yourself, you just seem pathetic. |
Alara IonStorm
2127
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Posted - 2012.05.16 11:51:00 -
[42] - Quote
Sidus Isaacs wrote:Ares Tride wrote:Your grasp of written English is supreme. Oh no! Someone on the forums for a game with players from all over the world is not 100% proficient in English! RAGE! Get over yourself, you just seem pathetic.
Seem? |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.05.16 11:57:00 -
[43] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:nat longshot wrote:
in testing a t2 launcher fit fleet typhoon with TP fireing on a Fleet Tempest just sitting there the t2s do about 25% to 30% less dmg then the faction torps. WTH ya that right 25% to 30% less dmg then faction though to use the t2 take more time to learn.
Fleet Tempest sig: 340m TP: 30% increase to sig T2 Rage Explosion Radius: 650m. (340 * 1.3) / 650 = 68.0% max damage. CN Torp: with 450m Explosion Radius (340 * 1.3) / 450 = 98.2% max damage Use more than one TP and/or a ship with a TP bonus. Otherwise, leave the Rage torps at home unless you're shooting at structures. Eve missile damage formulas: http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=901280
This
Missiles are about to get some changes (soon) so we could expect some reasonable numbers coming out.
PS: Speed tested new launchers/missiles on SISI, if I haven't looked at numbers missile graphics are just awesome. However my Tengu heavy missile launchers make my ship awful ... |
Bouh Revetoile
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
21
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Posted - 2012.05.16 12:45:00 -
[44] - Quote
Tier 3 BS have a huge signature (460m for Maelstrom for example) : mean that a standard or navy torp will hit for full damage (not accounting for speed).
Rage torpedoes have 10% more damage than navy ones but 30% more explosion radius and 15% less range.
With one TP on this Maelstrom, you do 90% of your damages with rage torpedoes ; that is without considering shield tank.
Other T2 high damage ammo have 10% more damage than navy mightest ammo with 30% tracking malus + 50% range malus.
Torpedoes have a range comparable to blasters, but with no falloff. They also have damage output comparable to blasters, but with more alpha.
As a missile, torpedo don't care about transversal velocity, which is something huge at very close range ; tradeoff is sig caped damages. Infact, torpedoes seem to suffer the exact same problem blasters suffered because of scramblers shuting down MWD. Hence, torpedoes would deserve a slight explosion radius buff and the removal of T2 ammo ship penalty.
NB : please, don't use minmatar ships to prove something related to speed or signature radius : the problem would be minmatar ship more than anything else ; most minmatar ship have blessed speed and signature. |
Ager Agemo
Radiant Technologies
The House Of Cards.
70
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Posted - 2012.05.16 13:00:00 -
[45] - Quote
missiles have it worse than turrets, they are not affected by transversal speed, true, instead they are affected by absolutely any speed, and so it happens even with max missile explosion speed skills, torps get an explosion speed of just 91ms, even the slowest of the slowest battleships, will kite about 15% damage just from moving.
on the case of rage torpedos, its completely broken once you add the 650 m radius. you get a reduction of about 60% just from moving, god forgive if the target is using an afterburner, your damage will get reduced by as much as 70% without counting resistances yet.
also!
Turrets do 100% damage on stationary targets regardless of size.
while a torpedo will hit a small ship for less than 10% its damage just from the signature.
having both all the turret and missile skills, I can say with good base, that missiles are underpowered in general, and the only reason they work sometimes, is because they are put on awesome ships like tengus. |
Zyress
The Fabulous Thunderbirds
78
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Posted - 2012.05.16 14:29:00 -
[46] - Quote
Gabriel Karade wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Gabriel Karade wrote:IGGVm of the opinion that, the formula in the link should only be based on the second set of functions. I.e. the missile parameters (explosion velocity divided by explosion radius) which are a constant, multiplied by the target Sig/velocity term. In which case, as a target's velocity ---> 0, itGGVs always going to become a big number, such that the overall damage multiplier gets capped at 1GG* From what I've seen, the second formula is already the main limiter of missile damage. The first formula is just there to make sure that large missiles don't do full damage against webbed/stationary frigates. Meaning, what you're asking for is already in place in practice. Well that is where I was coming from - I don't see the problem of a large missile doing full damage to a stationary target, the Sig/velocity term amply compensates for moving targets and if the first formula were removed it would be one less thing for the server to check. Just an opinion - I'm hardly what would be considered a 'missile fiend' , perhaps more of a 'recreational user' :]
This isn't unreasonable when you consider the explosion radius isn't instantly at its maximum size but starts small and expands. A direct hit should reasonably do full damage. Actually the eplosion radius should be a benefit making a near miss do some damage instead of missing altogether. Maybe they could work it into a positive when Tracking Disruptors start making Missiles miss. Explosion velocity should be pretty close to light speed, it is energy after all. With the possible exception of Kinetic, that may be matter. |
Selinate
871
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 14:34:00 -
[47] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:stoicfaux wrote:
Pffffffff! Way to slant the numbers!
Torpedoes buck the curve by trading range for raw DPS.
And no one really uses either in PvP. Not counting Bombers which have massive Torp bonuses. stoicfaux wrote:
By that logic, HAMs are also useless. You should use cruise missiles instead:
I think we have proven that neither is the correct answer to this equation.
Amarr missile boats are used typically in PvP. Fitting a HAM legion frees up a ton of powergrid making it possible to make it very good in PvP. |
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