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Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
711
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 13:55:00 -
[31] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:My point being if they don't want to its not going to happen and why is It an issue now and not for the last 9 years. Just wondering what all the urgency is all of a sudden ?
Why is that an issue to you?
In the beginning high security space was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
661
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 13:59:00 -
[32] - Quote
Game is working fine, lets recap shall we...
1. Harsh universe 2. Decisions, Decisions - fit expensive implants or go to lowsec... 3. You go "Oh look, a pod....." 4. ???? 5. And Bob is your cross dressing wierdo uncle, because in fact....it is your fault for inflicting a pod death from 3) that results in 1) Harsh universe and 2) The other guy's decision to use implants to accellerate his skill plan. So, because you wanted to give a facial with a blaster to the other guy in the pod....you did what you wanted and he did what he wanted, he learned an expensive loss so "Adapted" by not going to lowsec or null.
Working as intended, you don't need to change anything. |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
661
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 14:03:00 -
[33] - Quote
Roime wrote:Florio wrote:The system doesn't work fine. The OP is right. Whether people like it or not, and whether they ought to or not, learning implants stop a sizeable number of players in EVE (judging from forum posts) getting out there and PvPing.
High SP clone costs are another issue, especially for casual players; again, this is just a fact - again, whether it's right or wrong is another matter. There are many explanations, in the end the real reason is just lack of balls. No, the real reason is the consequences of their actions -> I want to get some skilling done -> You blow me up -> Yep, learned my lesson to not go to lowsec with expensive implants -> So you got to wait for me to finish my skill plan, but you are welcome to be bored off you ass for your actions to pod me and I am....what is it called..."Risk adversion"....yeah pretty sure its more your fault for teaching me a lesson of EVE so you got to wait bored then it is my fault for fitting something...since you didn't need to pod me but I didn't need to fit expensive implants...but I wanted to anyway, just like you wanted to pod me. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
95
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Posted - 2012.05.15 14:15:00 -
[34] - Quote
Roime wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:My point being if they don't want to its not going to happen and why is It an issue now and not for the last 9 years. Just wondering what all the urgency is all of a sudden ? Why is that an issue to you?
Its called a discussion numty. Judging by your previous post your not used to having them |
March rabbit
Trojan Trolls Red Alliance
174
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 14:17:00 -
[35] - Quote
Gordon Howard wrote:One solution I have seen is an implant contract where your choosen skill implants would be covered for a month probably at a higher cost, another solution removing skill implants from the game all together.
... I like the game difficult, I like that item prices have been rising and veterans have high SP, I like the long term aspects of the game. ... So please dont flame about dumbing the game down. I would like to see a serious discussion. Thank You. how do you connect all 3 sentences together?
Removing stuff from the game NEVER adds complexity. It only can make the game easier and dumber. This happened after learning skills removing. This happened after agent quality removing. This happened after removing drones from Motherships. Game became easier and stupidier in some aspects.
You said only attribute implants are bad but what about ship characteristics implants? They cost money too. They can be lost in PVP. People don't want to loose those implants too.
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Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
495
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 14:24:00 -
[36] - Quote
Gordon Howard wrote:Hello, I am an obvious alt here to raise a serious discussion about skill implants in the game, and maybe hopefullysee some DEV input.....(stuff)..... Thank You.
Because when you first played EVE, you never used implants, but now somehow, magically, implants are affecting the way you want others to play this game.
The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars. |
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
497
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 14:41:00 -
[37] - Quote
Florio wrote:The system doesn't work fine. The OP is right. Whether people like it or not, and whether they ought to or not, learning implants stop a sizeable number of players in EVE (judging from forum posts) getting out there and PvPing.
High SP clone costs are another issue, especially for casual players; again, this is just a fact - again, whether it's right or wrong is another matter.
Another one. Not everyone in this game wants to play the way you want them to play, So whether you like it or not, or whether you agree or not, implants are like any other module in this game. There is no need to change anything here, no reason other than to satisfy your own style of play.
The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars. |
March rabbit
Trojan Trolls Red Alliance
174
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 14:42:00 -
[38] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote: as previous posters have pointed out "I need more ISK/SP/... before I can do x" is a way of thinking that can only be described as wrong; catering to that mindset means catering to greedy carebears who will never leave high-sec anyways (because no matter how much they have, they will never be "ready").
you want to fly interceptor? Welcome to training frigate to 5. Elsewere good luck to do interceptor role in T1 frigate
I think every FC will be happy to accept your logistics pilot in T1 cruiser too.... |
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope Gallente Federation
1651
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 14:53:00 -
[39] - Quote
For me it is a non issue. I only have implants in because I had some spare ISK lying around and nothing better to spend it on one day. Otherwise I would simply go with no implants at all, which is what I normally do. When I get into my new corp for PVP in nullsec I will run my current implants until I get podded and then I will go without until I eventually get around to it. Frankly the bonus they give me with +4s just isn't all that great anyway.
EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
713
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 14:55:00 -
[40] - Quote
Aqriue wrote:No, the real reason is the consequences of their actions -> I want to get some skilling done -> You blow me up -> Yep, learned my lesson to not go to lowsec with expensive implants -> So you got to wait for me to finish my skill plan, but you are welcome to be bored off you ass for your actions to pod me and I am....what is it called..."Risk adversion"....yeah pretty sure its more your fault for teaching me a lesson of EVE so you got to wait bored then it is my fault for fitting something...since you didn't need to pod me but I didn't need to fit expensive implants...but I wanted to anyway, just like you wanted to pod me.
I don't really understand what you mean by all that, but would it help if I said that I'm also enjoying the benefits of a shitload of modern cybernetics while I pod you? Hell, I couldn't even fit my ships without the aid of hardwires.
Also, lost my last pod 6 months ago. Boo, it's so ******* dangerous outside hisec.
Fear, stops you from living.
In the beginning high security space was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move. |
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Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
129
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 15:10:00 -
[41] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Vera Algaert wrote: as previous posters have pointed out "I need more ISK/SP/... before I can do x" is a way of thinking that can only be described as wrong; catering to that mindset means catering to greedy carebears who will never leave high-sec anyways (because no matter how much they have, they will never be "ready").
you want to fly interceptor? Welcome to training frigate to 5. Elsewere good luck to do interceptor role in T1 frigate I think every FC will be happy to accept your logistics pilot in T1 cruiser too.... Thank you for wishing me good luck in my tackle frigate, I have the feeling I might need it
I can't fly a T1 cruiser on this character yet, but I think I'll follow your advice and train for an Oneiros as soon as possible. As tackle I always feel slightly useless and I had already heard that good logistics pilots are highly regarded. |
March rabbit
Trojan Trolls Red Alliance
174
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 15:17:00 -
[42] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:March rabbit wrote:Vera Algaert wrote: as previous posters have pointed out "I need more ISK/SP/... before I can do x" is a way of thinking that can only be described as wrong; catering to that mindset means catering to greedy carebears who will never leave high-sec anyways (because no matter how much they have, they will never be "ready").
you want to fly interceptor? Welcome to training frigate to 5. Elsewere good luck to do interceptor role in T1 frigate I think every FC will be happy to accept your logistics pilot in T1 cruiser too.... Thank you for wishing me good luck in my tackle frigate, I have the feeling I might need it I can't fly a T1 cruiser on this character yet, but I think I'll follow your advice and train for an Oneiros as soon as possible. As tackle I always feel slightly useless and I already heard that good logistics pilots are highly regarded. i see you have never been in 0.0 alliance.... tacklers are very important in fleet CTA ops. Not sure about T1 frigates tho
Let me know when you take part in logistics squad with your T1 cruiser too |
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
65
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 15:30:00 -
[43] - Quote
I don't see what the complaint is here. We have jump clones, we can dial up and down our financial risk every 24 hours.
Take whatever you are comfortable with losing to low/null.
If you want to dance around the system a bit you can do this: Jump your main into an implantless clone. Pause Skill training. Hop into an alt (on the same account) with +4s that needs to work on some skill or another and have them start training.
Once you jump back to your main with your full implants, pause your alt's training and resume your main's. At least that way someone on your account is benefiting from expensive implants. I don't make minerals. I just make ore 20% cooler. |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
662
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 16:21:00 -
[44] - Quote
Roime wrote:Aqriue wrote:No, the real reason is the consequences of their actions -> I want to get some skilling done -> You blow me up -> Yep, learned my lesson to not go to lowsec with expensive implants -> So you got to wait for me to finish my skill plan, but you are welcome to be bored off you ass for your actions to pod me and I am....what is it called..."Risk adversion"....yeah pretty sure its more your fault for teaching me a lesson of EVE so you got to wait bored then it is my fault for fitting something...since you didn't need to pod me but I didn't need to fit expensive implants...but I wanted to anyway, just like you wanted to pod me. I don't really understand what you mean by all that, but would it help if I said that I'm also enjoying the benefits of a shitload of modern cybernetics while I pod you? Hell, I couldn't even fit my ships without the aid of hardwires. Also, lost my last pod 6 months ago. Boo, it's so ******* dangerous outside hisec. Fear, stops you from living. And a good learning tool, but you missed the explanation completely...
I do X action -> You do Y acton -> I learn to solve it by staying in highsec -> You get bored because you got nothing to shoot at.
We both are the problem, but the best solution is to just change yourself and myself
You don't need to pod someone, I don't need to fit expensive implants. You shoot a pod, I don't bother to go to lowsec because I am still fitting implants.
See...cause and effect. We both don't change, nothing evolves. |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
130
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 16:38:00 -
[45] - Quote
Aqriue wrote: And a good learning tool, but you missed the explanation completely...
I do X action -> You do Y acton -> I learn to solve it by staying in highsec -> You get bored because you got nothing to shoot at.
We both are the problem, but the best solution is to just change yourself and myself
You don't need to pod someone, I don't need to fit expensive implants. You shoot a pod, I don't bother to go to lowsec because I am still fitting implants.
See...cause and effect. We both don't change, nothing evolves.
it's not fun to blow you up if there are no shinies on the killmail. |
bongsmoke
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 17:08:00 -
[46] - Quote
OP your doing it wrong, this game isnt about pvp, its about raping people that dont want to pvp. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3775
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 17:26:00 -
[47] - Quote
Aqriue wrote:Roime wrote:Aqriue wrote:No, the real reason is the consequences of their actions -> I want to get some skilling done -> You blow me up -> Yep, learned my lesson to not go to lowsec with expensive implants -> So you got to wait for me to finish my skill plan, but you are welcome to be bored off you ass for your actions to pod me and I am....what is it called..."Risk adversion"....yeah pretty sure its more your fault for teaching me a lesson of EVE so you got to wait bored then it is my fault for fitting something...since you didn't need to pod me but I didn't need to fit expensive implants...but I wanted to anyway, just like you wanted to pod me. I don't really understand what you mean by all that, but would it help if I said that I'm also enjoying the benefits of a shitload of modern cybernetics while I pod you? Hell, I couldn't even fit my ships without the aid of hardwires. Also, lost my last pod 6 months ago. Boo, it's so ******* dangerous outside hisec. Fear, stops you from living. And a good learning tool, but you missed the explanation completely... I do X action -> You do Y acton -> I learn to solve it by staying in highsec -> You get bored because you got nothing to shoot at. We both are the problem, but the best solution is to just change yourself and myself You don't need to pod someone, I don't need to fit expensive implants. You shoot a pod, I don't bother to go to lowsec because I am still fitting implants. See...cause and effect. We both don't change, nothing evolves.
Hypothetically you could learn to not always lose fights too.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
181
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 17:28:00 -
[48] - Quote
bongsmoke wrote:OP your doing it wrong, this game isnt about pvp, its about raping people that dont want to pvp.
Skill implants don't just discourage pvp, they discourage even entering pvp zones. Which tends to get in the way of killing people that don't want to pvp. But, I don't know if pvpers have run out of targets, willing or unwilling, just yet. |
bongsmoke
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 17:31:00 -
[49] - Quote
Takseen wrote:bongsmoke wrote:OP your doing it wrong, this game isnt about pvp, its about raping people that dont want to pvp. Skill implants don't just discourage pvp, they discourage even entering pvp zones. Which tends to get in the way of killing people that don't want to pvp. But, I don't know if pvpers have run out of targets, willing or unwilling, just yet.
NEWS FLASH! THIS JUST IN!
People get killed in high sec too.......
Sadly the mechanics for hi sec will not change, and huge corps do w/e they want to whomever they want.
Kinda like corporate america |
IGNATIUS HOOD
Zephyr Corp Black Thorne Alliance
310
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 17:39:00 -
[50] - Quote
Gordon Howard wrote:Hello, I am an obvious alt here
Your opinion is useless based on this simple admission.
But if I overlook this I would add.
If you don't like losing Implants don't get podded. I might be wrong but the best way to not get podded is to not get your ship shot out from under you in the first place. It kind of takes the pod out of play.
Also, rule #1 includes implants friend. Don't fly what you cannot afford to lose.
I personally rock a set of LG-slaves and assorted hardwires in a combat clone and I have a pair of +4 clones for learning. Becuase I'm a patient sort I don't buy +5 plants and I don't buy full Slaves becuase of rule #1.
EVE is great becuase it has consequences. And even if you don't want a fight, you might just get one anyway. Sorry I doubt you'll get many people who agree with you. EVE in a dangerous place. Get used to it or don't undock. 'perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim'
Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you.
~I fly spaceships~ |
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March rabbit
Trojan Trolls Red Alliance
174
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 17:39:00 -
[51] - Quote
Malcanis wrote: Hypothetically you could learn to not always lose fights too.
Hypothetically he learnt it. Evading fights is "not loosing" too.
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Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
347
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 17:40:00 -
[52] - Quote
I totally agree and think skill implants should be removed from the game and TRAINING BOOSTER SKILL CATCHUP PACKS sold for gold on the nex store instead. |
Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
17
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 18:24:00 -
[53] - Quote
This didn't need another thread, but I'll repeat myself anyway. In no particular order:
1. I really wish people would stop proposing this in the name of high sec carebears and newbies. We know you want it changed for nullsec, since that's where the vast majority of podding occurs (at least for non-afk/competent pilots).
2. More things blown up is better. If you can't afford to lose it, don't fly it.
3. The difference between +4s and +5s or +3s and +4s really isn't that big. You only need two plugged in at a time. Deal with it.
4. They already removed learning skills. This is the only choice left for attributes other than the attributes themselves, and you already get a remap at least once a year for that.
5. Eve is about risk and choices. |
Tub Chil
Heretic University Heretic Nation
22
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 18:31:00 -
[54] - Quote
your logic is flawless op.
I too confirm, that people don't pvp because they don't want to lose implants. |
Travo Lin
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 19:06:00 -
[55] - Quote
Posting in a bitter vet whine post
Oh i want easy noob kills not players with SP to fly/fight back |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3776
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 07:22:00 -
[56] - Quote
Hahah oh jesus the howling that would cause, can you imagine? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
360
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 07:33:00 -
[57] - Quote
learning implants incentivize risk aversion, they don't provide "choices" considering that they are nearly mandatory, unless you are so simple-minded that "hmm, +3s or +4s" is a "choice" that you believe adds depth to this game
death2superficialcomplexity eh |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
181
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 07:37:00 -
[58] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:
Hypothetically you could learn to not always lose fights too.
Indeed. Everyone should follow this advice. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
360
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 07:40:00 -
[59] - Quote
Takseen wrote:Malcanis wrote:
Hypothetically you could learn to not always lose fights too.
Indeed. Everyone should follow this advice.
losing a ship != losing a fight eh |
Alara IonStorm
2127
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 07:43:00 -
[60] - Quote
I say make it so you can switch your pod manually like a combat ship without the whole wait for the timer instant travel. Not only means that you can switch Learning Pods and PvE Pods on the fly but if you have a head full of medium projectile combat implants you can switch it out if you wanna dive into a cheap fleet full of Rifter's or Thorax's.
Makes it so you don't have to financially shoehorn yourself for 24 hours without the instant travel and can switch pods depending on what you are flying. |
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