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killorbekilled TBE
Dare Bears
92
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Posted - 2012.06.05 23:39:00 -
[241] - Quote
alliances being able to hold sov, should only be corps that can hold it huh? |
Frying Doom
Tinfoil Hat News Ltd.
286
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Posted - 2012.06.05 23:40:00 -
[242] - Quote
Mortimer Civeri wrote:Self important jerkwads, who loudly proclaim that they know the one thing that will "save EVE". This isn't the only problem EvE has but it is one very high on the list.
Just how unfriendly the game has gotten. Seems over the years we have lost the helpful people and the void has just been filled with jerks. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Spikeflach
Echo's of Liberty Dominatus Atrum Mortis
72
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Posted - 2012.06.06 03:57:00 -
[243] - Quote
Paranoia |
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
1046
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Posted - 2012.06.06 06:16:00 -
[244] - Quote
Makkal Hanaya wrote:Why do you see the speed of travel as being bad for the game?
Power projection is just one of several amplifiers that when combined with other bad mechanic amplifiers it causes a disaster. By itself and when dealing with small numbers it is not too bad. Now add together hundreds even thousands of players. Now combine vast network of free flowing intel that is insanely easy to come by with other mechanics like local channel, map activity and spy networks.
Now you wind up with a scenario where no small entity can perform any kind of committed risky activity, say like siege an enemy POS or POCO (structure grind that is itself pretty bad). The chances of that small entity getting hot dropped by bored power blocks (bored due to a combination of bad mechanics which I will get to later) and presto. The small entity is annihilated, thus instilling the fear to commit to such an activity again.
Now there will be those who will cry out that that small entity should get more friends, don't engage the POS or POCO if anyone is in local that is not blue, do a better job of weeding out the spies,... the list goes on. Those are shallow replies. I like to look much deeper into the situation.
Why is a power block even bothering with hot dropping some small fries on the other side of the galaxy?
Short answer: Because they can.
Long answer: Because due to current game mechanics and years of said game mechanics and previous ones; the blob exists and is by far the most effective means of performing any significant activity in the game. Numbers is the end all to all mechanics. It is the players answer, through years of tried and true combat and testing, to the vast majority of all the mechanics CCP has implemented into this game. Yes I know there will be some of you that will whip out isolated events from your Rolodex memory to smite me with, but those are very few and far between. Even if they managed to make a huge difference at that moment.
Again back to power projection...
In no way shape or form can someone wave some wand and utter, "Irish Wristwatch!" twenty times fast and fix this or any of the other issues (bad mechanic amplifiers) and fix this. These issues are many layers deep and will take a ton of minor changes as well as a few major changes to fix.
So how can you change all this if there is those who demand instant satisfaction upon logging in? There is a very vocal player base that feels like the game should be more like WoT or LoL. You log in, press button and receive bacon. They view any task no matter how small as a pain in the ass. They don't want anything to do with it. I think everything in this game that will result in something significant happening should have a proportional amount of effort by a real person to make it happen. Having an alt chilling cloaked up in a system when an entire enemy fleet jumps in and warps to another gate, passing within 14 au of your safe spot, should not yield the information of exact numbers, corp/alliance, names, exact ship types and even who the possible scouts and trailers are. All with the single click of the scan button. That is far too much critical information gathered with little to no effort to get it.
Those power blocks, through the current mechanics, are allowed to be pilled up into a small number of home/market systems. Through local, they are able to keep tabs on all activity in and around their territory. Through structure mails, they are able to know instantly if any assets they own are being attack. Mails that list the exact asset, location, alliance/corp attacking, exact ship they are flying and even the name of the pilot. All without even having to occupy/live in the system.
So with those things alliances are able to base their entire members out of one system, even one station. Toss in cyno alts at way points and that entire alliance can project itself very far and very fast. Most of these players are not too keen on wasting time on traveling. They view traveling as peasant for of travel. The so called elites use cynos, jump bridges and titan bridges. Far less clicking and effort. Warp to POS, press button, receive action. And honestly you can't blame them too much. They are using the mechanics given to them. The issue is the scaling of the mechanic when combined with the scaling issues of other mechanics that scale very poorly. By itself they are tolerable, but when all combined together and at a very high number, everything gets all ****** up.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
1046
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Posted - 2012.06.06 06:17:00 -
[245] - Quote
Those power blocks, through the current mechanics, are allowed to be pilled up into a small number of home/market systems. Through local, they are able to keep tabs on all activity in and around their territory. Through structure mails, they are able to know instantly if any assets they own are being attack. Mails that list the exact asset, location, alliance/corp attacking, exact ship they are flying and even the name of the pilot. All without even having to occupy/live in the system.
So with those things alliances are able to base their entire members out of one system, even one station. Toss in cyno alts at way points and that entire alliance can project itself very far and very fast. Most of these players are not too keen on wasting time on traveling. They view traveling as peasant for of travel. The so called elites use cynos, jump bridges and titan bridges. Far less clicking and effort. Warp to POS, press button, receive action. And honestly you can't blame them too much. They are using the mechanics given to them. The issue is the scaling of the mechanic when combined with the scaling issues of other mechanics that scale very poorly. By itself they are tolerable, but when all combined together and at a very high number, everything gets all ****** up.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
1046
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Posted - 2012.06.06 06:20:00 -
[246] - Quote
And all of that is just the tip of the iceberg. Just remember mechanics in this game can easily be amplified off each other. Designing something that scales in a balanced way is an incredibly hard thing to pull off. That said waiting years and years without trying to truly address the issues is inexcusable. CCP has been better at addressing issues, but the issues are piled up and again it will take real changes both minor and major to fix them all.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
1046
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Posted - 2012.06.06 06:22:00 -
[247] - Quote
CCP your forums are ****!!!!! I can't even write a whole post without the 'we were ganked' crap from happening even with a post that is one sentence!
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
1046
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Posted - 2012.06.06 06:24:00 -
[248] - Quote
Ask yourself: Why is (insert scenario) able to happen?
Dig deep. Find out as much as you can through research and experience. The true root of the problem may be twenty layers deep, through when isolated balanced mechanics, but when combined together, create something terrible and severely unbalanced.
Good luck and I actually am sorry for the spelling, grammar and such in this post. And I don't know why the forums made me break this all down into multiple different posts, they were under the 6000 character limit!
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
799
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Posted - 2012.06.06 06:41:00 -
[249] - Quote
Yes structure mails are the only reason huge alliances exist remove them and a 20-man gang will drive them out of nullsec eh |
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
1047
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Posted - 2012.06.06 07:09:00 -
[250] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Yes structure mails are the only reason huge alliances exist remove them and a 20-man gang will drive them out of nullsec
I never said anything remotely like that. Your trolling and spinning/flat out lying about other peoples posts are tiresome.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
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Irya Boone
Escadron leader La League des mondes libres
2
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Posted - 2012.06.06 09:02:00 -
[251] - Quote
Too much stargates , need to joystick control my ship and the game will be perfect !!! |
Ursula Thrace
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
44
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Posted - 2012.06.06 09:17:00 -
[252] - Quote
Saia Tae Arragosa wrote: What one thing in your opinion is hurting EVE the most?
asshats.
Eve Online Original Intro |
Motamar Askold
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2012.06.06 10:27:00 -
[253] - Quote
People who quit the game in less then a month, but I guess we can't really blame them. Eve online happens to be the most hardest game I ever played, and yet, i don't give up.
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Jori McKie
Friends Of Harassment
21
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Posted - 2012.06.06 11:13:00 -
[254] - Quote
Risk vs reward is screwed
About dynamic PvE content: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=115357&find=unread
Feel free to drop by and poke some holes in my idea. |
Hulasikali Walla
Sardaukar Rise
0
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Posted - 2012.06.06 11:16:00 -
[255] - Quote
Saia Tae Arragosa wrote: What one thing in your opinion is hurting EVE the most? Is it a particular game mechanic? Is it the lack of something? Maybe you feel the new player experience needs revamped. Please feel free to discuss that one thing you feel is hurting EVE the most.
Wannabe Kings of the wild frontier. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
120
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Posted - 2012.06.06 11:22:00 -
[256] - Quote
Hulasikali Walla wrote:Saia Tae Arragosa wrote: What one thing in your opinion is hurting EVE the most? Is it a particular game mechanic? Is it the lack of something? Maybe you feel the new player experience needs revamped. Please feel free to discuss that one thing you feel is hurting EVE the most. Wannabe Kings of the wild frontier.
Wannabe players
Wannabe
Players
Sic brb |
Alia Gon'die
Aliastra Gallente Federation
53
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Posted - 2012.06.06 11:28:00 -
[257] - Quote
The one thing hurting EVE is you, the OP. |
Alia Gon'die
Aliastra Gallente Federation
53
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Posted - 2012.06.06 11:28:00 -
[258] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Hulasikali Walla wrote:Saia Tae Arragosa wrote: What one thing in your opinion is hurting EVE the most? Is it a particular game mechanic? Is it the lack of something? Maybe you feel the new player experience needs revamped. Please feel free to discuss that one thing you feel is hurting EVE the most. Wannabe Kings of the wild frontier. Watanabe players Watanabe Players Sic fyp |
Theon Togenada
Security Initiative
15
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Posted - 2012.06.06 11:49:00 -
[259] - Quote
This forum. |
Nirnias Stirrum
Tr0pa de elite. Against ALL Authorities
184
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Posted - 2012.06.06 13:32:00 -
[260] - Quote
The complete lack of ponies! |
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Tenchi Sal
Dust Bunnies 514
85
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Posted - 2012.06.06 13:36:00 -
[261] - Quote
Nirnias Stirrum wrote:The complete lack of ponies!
http://velvetdraws.tumblr.com/ heres some ponies for you
also, i believe the changing community is whats hurting EVE the most. its becoming Trollsville. just look at alll the trolling on this forum. |
Takamori Maruyama
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
67
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Posted - 2012.06.06 16:02:00 -
[262] - Quote
I think the problem with the EVE community is trying to find an "end game" definition, when the game purpose is to be a FFA sandbox, so people don't understand that even High sec can be end game for some people. If you are a business capsuler, your purpose is to haul money, you can administrate your corp from High sec with no issue. Just have to deal with member and corp politics.Being a leader of something and making isk is the challenge for that person.
The main problem of EVE is people trying to tell others what is the "EVE" fun. I understand that Null sec and low sec people want more people roaming for more activity, but the matter is , even if you turn the game into a full null sec, that wouldn't change at all, people that are in High sec will just unsub, because those areas are not fun in their PoV. They find low sec too hostile for their taste, its a constant knife in the back.(I've been in low sec and null sec). The tactics there are much different. In my opinion(I can be wrong given the arguments) , think that the players need to focus in game mechanics instead of "Oh that community is doing something that I don't like" Loud and clear... |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
580
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Posted - 2012.06.06 16:02:00 -
[263] - Quote
Negligible fuel-cost for jump&bridge mechanics
Make it consume several hours worth of null-income to jump a capital, and even more for supercapitals, restricting their use to strategic alliance-level operations, instead of the unbalanced shenanigans of bored individuals.
This will nerf: - Excessive power-projection both in strength as in reach by null-alliances - Low-cost, high volume, no-risk, very fast, extremely profitable JF logistics (truly, the epitome of unbalanced)
Which will result in: - No more huge NAP-fests: the increased cost of power-projection encourages alliances to seek targets closer to home. - Reduced military enforcement of OTEC: members can afford to respond to every threat against every moon all the time. - Less interference from null in low-sec and high-sec affairs (too costly and busy with increased hostile neighbors) - Less usage of capitals by pirate-players in low-sec, lacking the alliance-level logistical and financial support. - Capitals and supercapitals remain viable as home-defense for systems and POS by poor alliances/corps, FW and WH. - More logistical separation between null and empire economies (the main cause of the dronepoo problems)
People saying this won't influence the richest alliances are wrong. Their power and wealth is based on cheap and risk-free jump&bridge mechanics in so many ways, there simply isn't a way to 'buy' a way out of this. Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors! |
Alexandra Delarge
The Korova
70
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Posted - 2012.06.06 16:20:00 -
[264] - Quote
Hulasikali Walla wrote:Saia Tae Arragosa wrote: What one thing in your opinion is hurting EVE the most? Is it a particular game mechanic? Is it the lack of something? Maybe you feel the new player experience needs revamped. Please feel free to discuss that one thing you feel is hurting EVE the most. Wannabe Kings of the wild frontier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGDVg0NZQQI |
Arushia
Nova Labs New Eden Research.
15
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Posted - 2012.06.06 17:21:00 -
[265] - Quote
Saia Tae Arragosa wrote: What one thing in your opinion is hurting EVE the most? Is it a particular game mechanic? Is it the lack of something? Maybe you feel the new player experience needs revamped. Please feel free to discuss that one thing you feel is hurting EVE the most.
The "unified inventory". It must be destroyed, and the old inventory returned.
Tired of lab queues in high-sec? Check out New Eden Research |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1663
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Posted - 2012.06.06 17:33:00 -
[266] - Quote
No More Heroes wrote:OH GOD this too, get rid of structure grinds please.
Bring more guns?
Seriously, how do you get rid of structure grinds without making them too easy to take down? Stations are SUPPOSED to be hard to get rid of.
It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
Barbelo Valentinian
The Scope Gallente Federation
238
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Posted - 2012.06.06 17:35:00 -
[267] - Quote
People who want to turn EVE into an instant-action PvP arena with a chat lobby. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1667
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Posted - 2012.06.06 17:55:00 -
[268] - Quote
Barbelo Valentinian wrote:People who want to turn EVE into an instant-action PvP arena with a chat lobby.
Also, people who want to turn Eve (or part of it) into a PVP-free zone. It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
138
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Posted - 2012.06.07 13:19:00 -
[269] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Makkal Hanaya wrote:Why do you see the speed of travel as being bad for the game? Power projection is just one of several amplifiers that when combined with other bad mechanic amplifiers it causes a disaster. ...
Damn. That's a lot for the 2 words you used in that first post - "power projection". lol
Interesting look at another perspective. I've been seeing a lot of other things that influence it but if you think your views are "somewhat" controversial, you should see some of my discussions and getting folks to open their eyes to it all...
I also have gotten some feedback on things, which helps a bit with understanding differences in perception.
Example: I'm against gate and station camps due their impeding travel in the game. "Wait them out" is not why someone logs into a game, etc. Old story.
My idea was to enable travel but make operations in an area more risky - eliminate the "can make an impassable gate camp" (group > individual. individuals travel, camps are groups so camps can and will beat soloists if they are into putting forth the effort. More travel = stronger camps to stop it/get the kills -- little travel possible. Again, old logic - easy to understand).
A counter was from someone else. He doesn't mind camps but when he gets to an area he wants complete safety while operating there.
The 2 points boil down to some basics:
HE likes focus. Focus on this - then focus on the other task -- travel being first, running things being next. HE has a batch of alts - if he bumps into something impassable, he'll just use an alt until it's gone. HE has a lot more time to play EVE -- if he bumps into an impassable situation, he can also simply make the 10-20 jumps to try and find another path or, again, just play an alt.
*I* like diversity - Risks are fine. I've been playing MMO's for the better part of 2 decades and know the difference between "risky" activities and Russian roulette with a lugar. *I* don't mind multi-tasking while doing anything in the game so watching out for inbound and such - not a big deal to me. *I* don't have alts - if I hit an impassable camp, I either wait it out or find something else to do - if it's a station camp, probably log off and go play something else. *I* have sporadic times in which I can play - as such, when I log on to play a game, I want to play it, not wait for others to finish.
The 2 different views on how to play are based upon resource availability (alts + time to play) along with multi-tasking vs single focus.
An interesting dichotomy - both showing valid views, both also being radically different in acceptable environments to operate in and I have found pretty close to equal numbers for both sides -- more newer types inclined towards my view but the longer people play, the more towards his view I find: Less acceptance of generalize risks vs specific points with much higher risks.
I figured I'd bring this up so you can keep in mind the fact that different people will see things(validly) in ways that may not fit your view & modeling approach.
Just something to keep and mind/consider while preparing details and presenting info. |
Aemonchichi
Limited Access Guardian Society
13
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Posted - 2012.06.07 13:40:00 -
[270] - Quote
Saia Tae Arragosa wrote: What one thing in your opinion is hurting EVE the most? Is it a particular game mechanic? Is it the lack of something? Maybe you feel the new player experience needs revamped. Please feel free to discuss that one thing you feel is hurting EVE the most.
these forums, full of hate and flame, whines and trolls - new players checking the forums before deciding to play eve might be lost, amateur forum moderation does the rest
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