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Aphoxakhan
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.16 15:57:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Jade Constantine So. Any Questions?
You remind me of uplifting moments of life that have risen me to flourish my blades and feel mighty without fools following me. Explain to me why this is.
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Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.16 18:03:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
In any event it would be good to return to matters of philosophical and ideological - and I trust that even through the last four pages of rigourous anarchist schismogenesis with side-helpings of post-idealist fanatical mewling from some quarters have been entertaining and enlightening in its own right, time has come to return to topic.
So. Any Questions?
I believe that seeing how anarchist pod pilots handle their disagreements has proven more informative about the anarchist nature and method than your story (or mine) could ever be ms. Constantine.
This thread has proven to be an 'Anarchist Tragedy' in more ways than I could have imagined. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Aphoxakhan
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.16 18:33:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Merdaneth I believe that seeing how anarchist pod pilots handle their disagreements has proven more informative about the anarchist nature and method than your story (or mine) could ever be ms. Constantine.
This thread has proven to be an 'Anarchist Tragedy' in more ways than I could have imagined.
You have shot me, I am dead. I surrender to the logic of mountains, embrace me with swords and shackles. You are far too clever. --------------------------------------------------------------
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Gorion Wassenar
Caldari Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.06.17 18:43:00 -
[184]
On the lake, the loon is calling long distance. |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.18 02:07:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Merdaneth
I believe that seeing how anarchist pod pilots handle their disagreements has proven more informative about the anarchist nature and method than your story (or mine) could ever be ms. Constantine.
Well you've seen the difference between freespace radical anarchists and blood-drinking NBSI anarchists anyways (with a few raving loons to provide amusement value to the thread on the side). But however fervant our opposition to each others choices the one thing we can all agree on is that you are a dog and Amarr deserves to burn.
My account of the settlement and destruction of the colony on Paradise remains and it seems you have no answer. I take it you are convinced now that your earlier fable is entirely void then?
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Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.23 21:16:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Merdaneth
I believe that seeing how anarchist pod pilots handle their disagreements has proven more informative about the anarchist nature and method than your story (or mine) could ever be ms. Constantine.
This thread has proven to be an 'Anarchist Tragedy' in more ways than I could have imagined.
Indeed it is a tragedy. Still it is hardly a "new" event to witness. Old anarchists realize the truth of the fraction lifestyle and "evolve" to true "freedom" from the cult of ego.
Then a new batch of anarchist meatshields take their place. The brainwashing begins and they rush to defend their existence... but wait awhile and they will come to realize the truth just as all their predecessors have. Maybe they will even join those they criticize today. After all its happened before.
Anarchist tragedy? Yes but perhaps "Fractionist Reality" is more appropriate.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP PORTAL |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.23 23:37:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Archbishop Indeed it is a tragedy. Still it is hardly a "new" event to witness. Old anarchists realize the truth of the fraction lifestyle and "evolve" to true "freedom" from the cult of ego.
Ah so the bashing bishop growing upset with the relative obscurity of his own latest screed (unpraised by any except puling sychophantic dogs) comes finally to my thread to preach his regressive dogma to those few craven worms shrieking their angst here.
But it is somewhat true. The Anarchist cause like most radical political movements has had its share of failures, dropouts, counter revolutionaries and ideological bankrupts who have chosen to abandon their principles and crawl on their bellies to gain acceptance in regressive organizations they once reviled. The human condition is not perfect, and even revolutionaries can become puling dogs unworthy of life given the right stimulus of mediocrity and banal adherence to the concerns of the common herd.
And it is right for you the arch-regressive and representative of holy hypocrisy in all its colours to preach against individualism and individual ego for such things are anathema to your belief system and hierarchy of pleasing lies. We free individuals do not need your god. We laugh at you when you kneel and we know your true motivation is not to sacrifice but to seek that most fleeting of ambitions; rulership and desire to command.
Quote: ... but wait awhile and they will come to realize the truth just as all their predecessors have. Maybe they will even join those they criticize today. After all its happened before.
Original thought replaces staid and stale thought it is true. The young replace the old. The imaginative replace the thoughtless. The passionate take honours from those bound in ennui and the cycle does continue as it always will. Yet there is no "truth" in failure. There is only failure. Those ex-anarchists who have fallen from individual liberty and exist now as nothing more than callow half-men bound in hierarchy and flattering tyrants for their supper? Do I regret their fall? Yes of course I do for as a living human being with the empathy to see the humiliation in the eyes of once-comrades I could do no less.
Yet do I take lesson or example from anarchists turned tyrants? From individuals turned collectivists? From Freespacers turned roadblockers? From heroes turned villains and from revolutionaries turned oppressors?
No no a thousand times no. I despise these choices and I laugh in the faces of those who have fallen from the cause of freedom to scratch a bare living from the stink and detritus of imperial delusion and all that excremental godslave self-delusion.
None of these fallen anarchists are worthy of my respect or my kind words. There is no kindness to address a drug-addled shell of a previous comrade in glowing terms while seeing the dead-emotion in an eye now incapable of seeing the wonder of the boundless frontier and the hope for humanity in the heavens.
Quote: Anarchist tragedy? Yes but perhaps "Fractionist Reality" is more appropriate.
The Anarchist tragedy of the thread is the story I have told of the fate of Paradise. Those without the wit to read those words and learn why it is impossible for freedom to flourish without cutting away the cancer of the old empires are due only pity.
The Fractionist Reality? Well, we have seen what happens to men and women who have given up their dreams in this very thread. Wasted half-creatures incapable of attaining the wonders they once aspired to and reduced to crawling on their knees like slaver-hounds snuffling for hand-outs from the 0.0 tyrants.
I tell you something. Those proud anarchists who once carried the names we have seen in this thread would not allow me to speak of them so without recourse. But those men and women are dead. I mourn their memory even as I despise the shabbling half-creatures that wear a mockery of their names today.
That is tragedy.
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.24 01:16:00 -
[188]
Quote: Ah so the bashing bishop growing upset with the relative obscurity of his own latest screed (unpraised by any except puling sychophantic dogs) comes finally to my thread to preach his regressive dogma to those few craven worms shrieking their angst here.
To be called a "worm" in the opening sentence of a Queen Anarchist reply indicates I have indeed struck a nerve. Normally you have to wait three to four posts for the cries of "insect", "dog" or "worm" to emerge. I readily admit my name is less known among the cluster then yours but I can attribute that only to the fact your comments are usually three to four times as long as mine. I do not dare believe I match the propoganda machine of the Queen Anarchist although I likewise admit I am very happy to not be you as I'm sure 99% of the cluster is.
Then again when I post it is for the enlightenment of the masses. I have a hope the light of faith and inspiration will shine into the hearts of my fellow man. The glory of God and Empire are shining beacons I desire to share with all.
You on the other hand post for... we'll... I'll let your reputation speak for itself.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP PORTAL |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.24 04:34:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Archbishop To be called a "worm" in the opening sentence of a Queen Anarchist reply indicates I have indeed struck a nerve.
No, it merely indicates that you are a worm.
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Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.24 13:40:00 -
[190]
In a way yours must be a horribly lonely life. People join your group only to realize in the end it's all about you and not the cause of anarchy. Then they leave and find true freedom from the cult of ego forcing you once again to lure in a new batch of pilots you can brainwash for temporary companionship. Until in the end they realize the anarchist they fight for is really a dictatorship and leave.
Then the new replace the old just as you said. It's a regular cycle and is as predictable as the seasons.
I know if I were a young fractionist I would be contacting some of the former fractionist pilots who have posted here. I wouldn't be wasting months being a part-time anarchist and full-time meatshield. After all having free access to knowledge is a key part of freedom is it not? I would be asking why so many prominent anarchists are all saying the same thing.
You have my sympathy... I know not how you wake up each morning not knowing how many of your new pilots will realize the truth and abandon you today. It must be very stressful.
Perhaps prayer would help? Allow me to offer this simple prayer as you yet again live your own Anarchist Tragedy.
Dear God hear our prayer. Help the misguided anarchist see the error of her ways. Help her to recover from her life of lonliness and help heal the dislike so many have of her. Lord you are strong, wise and just. In your name we pray this... Amen.
While you would never be able to truly achieve salvation you can face your sins and repent for them. Embrace God and finally find peace.
Archbishop
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Heartstone
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.24 13:55:00 -
[191]
It is funny Archie. You talk as if nobody has ever left PIE for an organisation that is opposed to your own beliefs which is, as we both know, certainly not the case. Do you see them differently from how Jade sees those fallen from our path?
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.24 14:37:00 -
[192]
Actually it's a rather wonderful life. The cause of freedom is entirely a personal journey. People come to the anarchist cause for many reasons - some have realized a capacity for evil in themselves and seek a positive direction for their vast powers and capability. Others have simply realized that as immortals we need different systems of interaction. We have the greenest recruits alongside the veterans of many wars and conflicts and in the Fraction all have an equal voice and right to speak their desires and dreams and make policy for the movement.
It is very uplifting seeing those who were once oppressed coming to understand their power and freedom and choosing to utilize their influence as they impact the wider struggles of the Star Cluster. We've taught thousands to resist and guard their own freedoms - we've taught many more to look to our example and wonder at what the Star Fraction can mean to them and their people.
All this talk of cult of ego and brainwashing is just projection from the bashing bishop. He is incapable of understanding a universe beyond the dominance/submission paradigms of the theological state and grasps for terminology he believes makes sense while representing nothing but nonsense phraseology and idiot mewling to those who have experienced freedom in their own right. Any Fractionist knows this.
The mistake this perverse prelate makes as ever is to believe that the key to attacking the anarchist movement is to attack the name Jade Constantine. And it's a mistake he has made continuously for past years and previous incarnations untold mind. I wonder if he believes if he tries long enough one day something will finally work? Its my pleasure as ever to disappoint him. I am a relentless foe to the wicked and the purile alike.
But since he is incapable of understanding the nature of anarchy he believes there is a "trick" a "mind-control cult" a "confidence scam" behind these free individuals choosing to align themselves against his own power and desire for hierarchy in the name of gods divine grandeur (or some such rot).
So it is easy for him to portray the sad ranks of failed anarchists shambling through this thread as some kind of criticism for an individual leader figure - thinking to make inroads and traction against a movement as baffling to him as the are orbits of moons to a spellbound gape-jawed slaver hound gazing up at the night sky no doubt!
To imagine this epic mock of a would-be religious conqueror as a "young anarchist" is the epitome of farce really.
But referring to the failures and wash-outs and traitors to the cause of freedom here as "prominent anarchists" is simply deluded.
Only an idiot could see the likes of Devilish Ledaux, Bacchanalian, Centra Spike and Ituralde of Pandemic Legion (and Goonswarm) as any kind of anarchist whatsoever. In joining such an organization of top-down restrictive hierarchy bound in memetic tyrant from its lowliest vapours to its murderous tendrils is proof-positive of the very opposite in heart and soul. One cannot be an anarchist in Goonswarm Archbishop - just as it appears one cannot have a mind in PIE.
Yet I do feel a little sorry for you here. You've seen the public meltdown of several weak personalities and have mistaken the ennui and pitiful froth as some kind of public (revolution?) against the revolution and taken hope from their withered imprecations and weak rhetoric. It's quite pitiful in a way as you desperately thrash about for arguments you are incapable of making.
Still, the attribute of mercy compels me to reveal that these voices are not dissidents or rebels or revered opposition or any other kind of honourable counterpoint to the radical freespace movement whatsoever.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.24 14:38:00 -
[193]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 24/06/2009 14:45:54
No Archbishop, they are just wasted shells of men, mind-wrecked and tired, incapable of pursuing their dreams and reduced to shambling thoughtless in the path of tyrants, counting all their hopes of making individual name lost and turning inward to bitter understanding that their only glory will be reflected at best, and those reflections increasingly dim as they are assimilated by the swarm. As I've said, I might pity these creatures but they will have no kind words from me for I am not in the habit of lying.
We are immortals and we can strive for eternity if we have the will and energy to keep striving. A failed anarchist is nothing special. No more important than the hundreds of failed nationalists and Amarrian loyalists turned pirates or thieves or mindless road blockers in Providence. Perhaps these skeletal remnants of the men they once were are unique in their self-mockery? Perhaps. But I prefer to remember them as they were in life - not as they are in the voluntarily living death of servitude to 0.0 tyrants and vacuous memetic impulse.
So I Jade Constantine, the individual, the egotist, the revolutionary, the murderer, the saboteur, the firebrand speaker and nemesis to all your stand for remains. Doubtless as Lucifer to submissive divine-mewling. And I remain unbowed and unrepentant, laughing at your words, mocking your capability in space. Your sermons are weak broth to the intellectually-destitute! Your manipulations are cringe-worthy as you attempt to flatter fallen dogs in the hope that they will bark at the appropriate time in your own chorus!
You may well consider your cause to be so weak as to admit any crawling mudcrab into the ranks of your friends Archbishop. I however have my eyes set upon the stars above and one must strive to earn my respect. No weaklings and halfwits have a place at the table of free-captains, still perhaps a kindness that they have a place in PIE when the goons have no more use for them.
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Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.24 15:19:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Heartstone It is funny Archie. You talk as if nobody has ever left PIE for an organisation that is opposed to your own beliefs which is, as we both know, certainly not the case. Do you see them differently from how Jade sees those fallen from our path?
While individuals have left PIE I can never recall one returning later to level such a personal condemnation of one individual as has happend here with the former fractionists. This is what I think is the real Anarchist Tragedy. Not people leaving but leaving with such venom and anger toward one particular person.
Many have left PIE, others will leave, some will join other loyalist groups and some will abandon God and join the heatens. In all these occurances though I certainly can't recall an exchange like we've seen here between current and former fractionists. That "personal" tone of bitterness and resentment. It does tell a lot about how people leave your organization.
I guess the question I ask then Heartstone is are you acknowledging the belief of many (based on years of reports by former fractionists) that your group is basically a dictatorship focused on stroking to gigantic ego of one individual? After all leaving over philosophy is one thing... Leaving the way your former associates have repeatedly descibed over the years is quite another.
When so many former fractionists say the same thing over so many years it does make you wonder. As I said it is both Anarchist Tragedy and Fractionist Reality.
I suggest prayer and repentence. If you face your sins you will feel better.
Archbishop
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Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.24 15:43:00 -
[195]
Firstly I appreciate you taking the time to come up with a nickname for me. The Bashing Bishop is certainly an amusing one. I admit it is my desire to "bash" sin and deviance so I view your nickname as a sign I am succeeding. As for discussions about the fractionist leader I will simply let your reputation speak for itself. Given the years and years you've endured this life I understand the walls of denial you have built around yourself. It is a protection measure to call others weak while ignoring the reality everyone is shouting at you.
I believe God only wants His children to serve Him and find their place in the universe. That requires being willing to face your sin and repent. Until you do this you are doomed to stand behind your walls of text and denials of reality. Doomed to more years of your former anarchist friends turning on you as they have here. It truly is the Anarchist Tragedy.
I must depart this thread for now as I have some new sermons to prepare in the new series on Minmatar Tribal Culture. I happily encorage all to read the words of the former fractionists who have posted here and search back through the years to read the same things again and again. Ask yourself one question... "If something is repeated by many people over many years is it possible it is true?". My answer is the obvious "yes". After all there was a time when Baach and Devilish defended the fraction here as well as Heartstone has today. It does make you wonder.
I will say a prayer for all anarchists tonight that they find the truth of God and repent.
Archbishop
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Heartstone
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.24 16:04:00 -
[196]
It seems that you have been lead to believe the wrong thing from these voices of the past Archie. The few who have spoken out against Jade Constantine are in the vast minority of pilots who have decided for whatever reason to leave our organisation. The majority of former members of The Star Fraction have not expressed the "venom and anger" you describe.
It is certainly true that no former members of PIE have been so publicly critical of a member of your organisation in recent memory whilst a number of former members of The Star Fraction have been. Let us examine this though. What sort of people do the two organisations appeal to? In our case the people we attract tend to be the outspoken, individualistic kind from the outset. These traits are encouraged by The Star Fraction and as a result when a member leaves it is certainly likely he or she will express themselves outspokenly. These are also the sort of people who will, on reflection, tend to have more personality clashes with each other as their beliefs are challenged by the free exchange of ideas and ideals that can lead to... shall we say... rather heated discussions. The danger of an organisation such as ours poses to itself lies in the few who are unable to accept the difference of opinion of the others members. Those than cannot do not flourish in an environment such as ours where everything is open for discussion and interpretation. If these people feel ignored, overlooked or otherwise hard done by they tend to make a fuss about it as we have well seen here. That they express themselves in such strident terms is, in many ways, gratifying to see for me at least as I still can see the spark of hope in them.
I cannot in all honesty say what sort of people PIE attracts in the same depth as what I can of my own organisation. I would assume however that the values and norms that you look for in a recruit would be along the lines of obedience and supplication to the will of the Empire. That the sort of person who is willing to join an organistation such as your is less outspoken on their departure is of little surprise in truth then as the personality type attracted to this is less verbose than that attracted to ours shall we say. Given the traits that are encouraged in the membership of your organisation I personally would have thought the members who joins forces to fight against the Empire is more of a rejection of ideals than one who speaks out against a single person in the organisation. Of course this is just a personal assumption as I could never understand the mindset of one who would join an organisation such as your own as it isn't who I am.
The cult of personality argument surrounding The Star Fraction is, of course, an old one. All I can say is from my personal experience from nearly two years in The Star Fraction I have never seen it. From a new member to a Director of this organisation I belong to it has never been the case that what Jade or anyone else says is valued above what anyone else says. Indeed on a number of occasions in the last few months alone I can think of several times when her advice has been dismissed and we have gone a different route to the one she proposed. As a result of these actions taken Jade never once complained about being ignored or sidetracked. Indeed she was, in a couple of cases, their strongest proponent once the choice was made. Frankly the cult of personality is a myth designed to attempt to cause internal division within the ranks of the Star Fraction which will never work as those within it see for themselves the truth of the situation.
On a final note I would just like to add that I am personally not an Anarchist. I never have been. My choice to join the Star Fraction was based on the ideals of Transhumanism and Freedom that we promote.
For me though the Anarchist Tragedy is that the is made of it's own basic function. Anarchist seem to rebel against everyone including other anarchists from time to time.
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Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.24 16:55:00 -
[197]
One of my slaves commented I might want to read your posting Heartstone. I am most interested in the fact you do not believe yourself an anarchist supporter. I am not totally familiar with "transhumanist" beliefs although I have seen the term used. I believe it was always used in a large wall of text thus it was overlooked.
Still I did enjoy taking a short break from writing my new sermon to read your comments. While I clearly don't agree with all of them I do especially appreciate your description of what kind of people join your group. Perhaps testing children at a young age for these "traits" would be a positive step toward rooting out the anarchist dysfunction.
Archbishop
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Heartstone
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.24 17:53:00 -
[198]
Oh I wouldn't go as far as to say I'm not a supporter of Anarchists as, after all, I work alongside many of them and I will always support those who I work alongside despite any philosophical differences we may have. What I said was that I am not one myself which is to say I don't believe that Anarchism is the ideal for a society. I was bought up amongst the Great Caravans of the Thukker who roamed freely around Syndicate where my parents came from. Their communal meritocracy is, to my mind, a more beautiful construct but it is one that thrives in harsh circumstances and tends to brake as soon a degree of comfort is achieved as greed and personal ambition come into play. A shame really and it is my hope that the recent joining of the Thukker Tribe to the Minmatar Tribal Republic doesn't cause this sort of cascade of issues for them whom I still consider in some way my own people.
In regards to your idea of screening I hardly think it is something that is not already done in the Empire to a degree already. After all the label of Heretic or Unbeliever is one we hear often from the Empire in regards to those in it's own society it cannot bare. Additionally in childhood these traits are not as well developed as they are in later life where one would be more capable of avoiding making them obvious if the situation warranted it. Really the best way to root out the Anarchistic tendencies of your own people if to offer them more freedom without recrimination. Whilst it seemed during the time of Sansha the Empire was willing to allow it's people a degree of freedom in self determinsation as demonstrated by their forbearance of the Sansha dissidents that tolerance seems to have evaporated over time. Maybe as a direct result of this event? I am not sure.
In regards to your comments on Transhumanism that is a subject for a much longer and more detailed discussion than can be done here.
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Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.24 19:32:00 -
[199]
Originally by: Heartstone For me though the Anarchist Tragedy is that the is made of it's own basic function. Anarchist seem to rebel against everyone including other anarchists from time to time
That was the point of my tale mr. Hearstone. To rebel is one of the core concepts of the anarchist philosophy. That is why I called it a counter-philosophy. It needs something to rebel against.
Even if you give a group of anarchists a pristine world and don't interfere with them at all, they still end up fighting each other. That is the anarchist tragedy I tried to convey in my story. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Heartstone
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.24 19:55:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Heartstone For me though the Anarchist Tragedy is that the is made of it's own basic function. Anarchist seem to rebel against everyone including other anarchists from time to time
That was the point of my tale mr. Hearstone. To rebel is one of the core concepts of the anarchist philosophy. That is why I called it a counter-philosophy. It needs something to rebel against.
Making terms up doesn't help though mr. Merdaneth. The Anarchist philosophy is what is known broadly as a Conflict Philosophy that is to say things are, things being in this case society, inevitably in a state conflict and not stable as other philosophies would have you believe. Anarchist Philosophy is of course just one example of Conflict Philosophy calling them "counter-philosophy" as you so cutely did is a base and thinly veiled attempt at anti-Anarchist propaganda.
Quote: Even if you give a group of anarchists a pristine world and don't interfere with them at all, they still end up fighting each other. That is the anarchist tragedy I tried to convey in my story.
As stated above the eternal conflict between one group in a society and another is something that is assumed to the norm in Anarchists Philosophy and therefore conflict between members of the perfect society is inevitable as a mechanism for change in that society. Conflict Philosophy in a way denies the very concept of a "perfect" society as to be perfect would require no change and the stagnation of the society that occurs as a result of it would deem it imperfect by itself as it would never succeed in pleasing all of it's people.
This issue in Anarchist Philosophy as I understand it is, of course, only relevant to a theoretical discussion as the Anarchist grounded in reality is dealing with something that is far from perfect and as a result the Real Life anarchist is more concerned with the reality of the situation eh finds himself in and less about the perceived theoretical implications of their eventual success.
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Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.24 20:39:00 -
[201]
Originally by: Heartstone The Anarchist philosophy is what is known broadly as a Conflict Philosophy that is to say things are, things being in this case society, inevitably in a state conflict and not stable as other philosophies would have you believe. Anarchist Philosophy is of course just one example of Conflict Philosophy.
I have no problem with people sketching anarchist philosophy as a conflict philosophy. I do have problems with people sketching it as an inherently peaceful philosophy. I do have problems with people sketching it as a philosophy preferring peaceful negotiation over violent coercion.
The Cosmopolite has continually denied the need for conflict. He claims that conflict is not necessary in this age. Not necessary because once we become capsuleers we suddenly have infinite space, infinite resources and infinite independence. With infinity in our hand, why fight?
I believe that claim is false. I believe capsuleers are in still in conflict, not because they are used to fighting (infected by an inferior meme-complex in SF-speak), but because they fight over finite resources and dependent positions.
I believe laws and restrictions are an efficient manner to overcome conflicts of interest between individuals, especially where it concerns dilemma's that rational actors cannot solve by themselves.
Amarr society has a lot of mechanisms to regulate conflict in such a way that it benefits all. It tries to suppress inefficient conflicts and encourage efficient ones. SF anarchists seems to want to abandon all forms of suppression of conflict.
The perfect society is indeed stagnant, for it has reached the perfection of God. One can strive for this, but it is unlikely that society will reach this point in the near future. Is such perfection not something to strive for? |
Heartstone
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.24 21:05:00 -
[202]
You misunderstand the term "conflict" in this case Merdaneth, The conflict is between two or more groups in a society. The conflict does not have to be a bloody one. Conflict can be utterly peaceful negotiation as much as it can be planet shattering conflict. Really though I am not going to explain these simple parts of sociological philosophy to you Merdaneth you should know this sort of thing.
As for SF wanting to abandon all forms of suppression of conflict that is utterly ridiculous. As a strict NRDS organisation we restrict ourselves in our use of violence to the extent in every major fight we do take part in we are regularly attacked by people who, up to that point, were free from the chance of aggression from us. After all it is for this reason that some of the past members of Star Fraction left us. Those who felt the need to attack everyone they saw as if all were a threat to them in some sort of paranoid fantasy.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.24 22:31:00 -
[203]
Originally by: Archbishop
As for discussions about the fractionist leader I will simply let your reputation speak for itself.
It does of course. I have a reputation for steadfast commitment to a cause I support. I doubtless have a reputation as stern critic of broken idealism and failed dreams. By the same measure you have a reputation for meandering screeds of babbling sub-schoolroom sermonizing that impress only the fragile-minded. (that and avoiding all conflict from your cloaked bestower mind).
But we could fill pages explaining what our reputations are. Your words will always be lies. Your supporters will always be dogs. That is simply the way it is.
Quote: It is a protection measure to call others weak while ignoring the reality everyone is shouting at you.
The notion of "everyone" is an idiotic one. By calling on this chorus of chattering nithlings you simply weaken your grasp on the argument. I could as easily say that "everyone" despises your weakness and cowardly yellow-streak that has seen you hide from every war PIE has ever been involved in. But its meaningless - you cannot prove external opinion, I would not wish too. The opinions of the peanut gallery are generally worthless. Unlike you I am completely honest in stating that I only care about the opinions of a relatively small group of people who have earned my respect from their actions, wisdom and courage in times before. And none of those people have ever supported your condemations and sermons.
Quote: Until you do this you are doomed to stand behind your walls of text and denials of reality. Doomed to more years of your former anarchist friends turning on you as they have here.
I have no former anarchist friends. That is what you fail to understand. A failure is just that - a failure. I have no time for the weak of will and lacking in backbone. I spare no thought to the destitute of spirit and false in ideals. That perhaps is what drives these creatures to their empty-eyed condemnations and pitiful public mewling. I make no apology. The revolution is one of two loves in my life - there is no room in my heart for those who have betrayed the cause of freedom.
Quote: Ask yourself one question... "If something is repeated by many people over many years is it possible it is true?". My answer is the obvious "yes".
Obvious but incorrect. The weak will always slander the strong. The evil will always grow jealous of the just. Those with ideals will be hated by those without. This is the dark side of human nature.
Quote: After all there was a time when Baach and Devilish defended the fraction here as well as Heartstone has today. It does make you wonder.
Devilish has always been a weak man. He sought a harbour having failed as a pirate and we gave him a place of comfort. But he has never been a good speaker or even a particularly effective revolutionary. Bacchanalian was once a great pilot in the Fraction granted, but he grew too hungry for the thrill of combat and it drowned out the reason for fighting. In the end he became a creature of sensation alone. Murder was all that mattered, the revolution was nothing. This is a danger to the immortals of our cause. Some lose themselves in the near divinity of our powers. Bacchanalian is one of those. Anarchists are betrayed and destroyed by the lust for kill-rankings and meaningless slaughter. The Star Fraction is and always has been much more than that and the true heroes of the Fraction cause understand the secrets that men like Devilish and Bacchanalian lost or never knew.
But worship their power as you wish Archbishop. You need allies and faded captains fallen to kneeling before the 0.0 hierarchies suit you well as brazen idols to the godslave ethos. For my part I spit in their faces. If they were half the men they once aspired to be they would vow to make me regret this gesture. But they are less than half, close to nothing and nothing is what they will do.
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Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.25 00:55:00 -
[204]
Quote: Even if you give a group of anarchists a pristine world and don't interfere with them at all, they still end up fighting each other. That is the anarchist tragedy I tried to convey in my story.
I guess despite all my observations and revelations this is the simplest truth of all... that even a member of the fractionist ranks acknowledges it has some truth is all that really needs to be said.
In some ways anarchists are like perfectionists. A perfectionist will always be looking for something else better than what he has. But what happens when the perfectionist finds that perfect thing? They rejoice and acknowledge it as such. The anarchist on the other hand even in a pristine world of anarchy will never be satisfied. Be it their penchant for violence or the constant need for conflict the end result is always the same. The anarchist is never happy thus calling forth ongoing violence. It is like an addiction for these poor souls and even amongst themselves they will take a perfect situation and find some reason to fight about it.
I will say it again it must be a sad life. A life spent in search of perfection and improvement can be a wonderful thing... to find that perfection and walk right by it is a tragedy. To do so one's entire life is the anarchist tragedy.
Archbishop
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Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.25 01:14:00 -
[205]
Quote: I have no former anarchist friends. That is what you fail to understand. A failure is just that - a failure. I have no time for the weak of will and lacking in backbone. I spare no thought to the destitute of spirit and false in ideals. That perhaps is what drives these creatures to their empty-eyed condemnations and pitiful public mewling. I make no apology. The revolution is one of two loves in my life - there is no room in my heart for those who have betrayed the cause of freedom.
Perhaps this tells the entire story. Heartstone very honestly explained even among the anarchist ranks people can take different directions. He viewed those people as individuals set on a different path... but he still obviously respected their choices. He didn't need to call them names in an attempt to bring them down to elevate some insecurity complex.
Likewise I don't recall Cosmopolite ever referring to former anarchists in this manner. He seems to be a calm reasoned individual even if he's a disgrace to his race associating with anarchists. He seems very respectful of the concepts of "free-choice" and while often not agreeing with him I have not seen such name-calling from him either.
You on the other hand are quick to call people "failures" and "pitiful". You apparently don't respect the free choices your former anarchist associates have made. From reading several years of comments like the ones in the last few pages this seems to be a common thread in the tapestry of your life. Anyone who disagrees with you is a "failure", a "dog", a "worm" or an "insect". Anyone who leaves your ranks is a "failure".
Perhaps Cosmopolite or Heartstone would be a more appropriate CEO for your corporation? They certainly are better versed in the language of diplomacy and humanity.
Given the tone of your speech about these former members it isn't a stretch to assume you treat even current corpmates in such a manner if they disagree with you. While Heartstone indicated several times your ideas were passed on I have to believe given the years of posts like these in this thread and by your angry defensive response you are not the cuddly fun-loving freedom-worshiping anarchist you claim to be. But that is OK... After all your reputation speaks for itself.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP PORTAL |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.25 01:53:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Archbishop
Quote: Even if you give a group of anarchists a pristine world and don't interfere with them at all, they still end up fighting each other. That is the anarchist tragedy I tried to convey in my story.
I guess despite all my observations and revelations this is the simplest truth of all... that even a member of the fractionist ranks acknowledges it has some truth is all that really needs to be said.
You are quoting Merdenath there. You are not quoting a Free Captain and its deceitful for you to claim you are. Merdenath's story was a fiction and clusmy caricature of the way he wishes to describe anarchist principles. It is not what happened. The truth is in the op of this thread. That is what you need to address if your visit here is to have even the pretense of open debate.
Quote: The anarchist on the other hand even in a pristine world of anarchy will never be satisfied.
That is merdaneth's fiction. That is not the tale of this thread.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.25 02:05:00 -
[207]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 25/06/2009 02:08:19
Originally by: Archbishop Given the tone of your speech about these former members and the fact this isn't the first time your former "friends" have spoken like this about you it isn't a stretch to assume you treat even current corpmates in such a manner if they disagree with you.
It is quite a "stretch" given your complete failure to read the words of current comrades and fellow revolutaries in this thread. I believe we have been united in our condemnation of the lunacy expressed by some gnashing non-entities you laud as prophets. And I'll thank you to avoid putting quotes round the word "friends" as if that was my term. It is not. I have told you I consider none of these people you refer to as friends in any way shape or form.
I'm not sure why you are belabouring this point though. I have been more than blunt. Perhaps it is the constant Amarrian obsessive compulsion at having the last word winning over your earlier promise to quit the thread and move onto other matters? Who knows. But be assured I will not shift my stated position one atom on the matter of these regressive dogs and fallen worshippers of the great god NBSI and all the mewling stink that entails.
I will move mountains and shatter fleets to defend and protect my comrades-at-arms and fellow revolutionaries. They know this. I know they will sacrifice as much in return. My love and passion is given freely to those idealists with the strength to fight for their ideals and embrace freedom's burning eyes and siren song and strike at tyranny in all things.
I will give nothing to nithing dogs save a swift kick in their posterior when the volume of their yapping proves a distraction to the debate at hand.
If you wish to remain in this thread and discussion you are welcome to of course - but unless you address the subject of the op I'll restrict myself merely to mocking your intellectual capabilities hereafter, since without the smallest attempt to address the points raised here you are simply playing the stereotypical blind prelate role in a beggers game of mock the monk.
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.25 07:57:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Heartstone You misunderstand the term "conflict" in this case Merdaneth, The conflict is between two or more groups in a society. The conflict does not have to be a bloody one. Conflict can be utterly peaceful negotiation as much as it can be planet shattering conflict.
Mr. Hearstone, *I* am perfectly aware of this. However, your CEO isn't. Just one post below your own she talks about his eminence the Archbishop:
Originally by: Jade Constantine By the same measure you have a reputation for meandering screeds of babbling sub-schoolroom sermonizing that impress only the fragile-minded. (that and avoiding all conflict from your cloaked bestower mind).
It seems clear that ms. Constantine uses a different definition of conflict. Also, going by the words of the Cosmopolite, who claims that Star Fraction prefers 'convincing through diplomacy' above 'coercion through violence', his eminence should really be a lighting example for the anarchist. For Archbishop tries to convince others through non-violent means, broadcasting from an unarmed Bestower while your CEO uses every opportunity to grab her guns.
Ms. Constantine's general demeanor seems to express that she thinks those that try to solve conflict through negotiation are nothing more than insects, that flying a cloaked Bestower is shameful and that they should 'wardec or stfu'.
In practice, the term "conflict" as used by the Star Fraction seems clear enough. it means wanton destruction against designated (not random) targets. Star Fraction thrives on violent conflict. Star Fraction's continued existence is dependent on violent conflict. You know this as well as I do mr. Hearstone, I just want you to admit it. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.25 08:01:00 -
[209]
Edited by: Merdaneth on 25/06/2009 08:03:14
Originally by: Jade Constantine I have no former anarchist friends. That is what you fail to understand. A failure is just that - a failure. I have no time for the weak of will and lacking in backbone. I spare no thought to the destitute of spirit and false in ideals. That perhaps is what drives these creatures to their empty-eyed condemnations and pitiful public mewling. I make no apology. The revolution is one of two loves in my life - there is no room in my heart for those who have betrayed the cause of freedom.
I seem to remember you and the Cosmopolite saying that everyone was always free to return to the SF cause? Has that changed? Or is this merely another example of SF hypocrisy.
Or perhaps, SF has a policy of taking in failures, people lacking backbones, those destitute in spirit and of course traitors?
Originally by: Jade Constantine The weak will always slander the strong.
You either have a peculiar sense of humor, or are completely blind to miss the irony in this statement of yours. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.25 09:33:00 -
[210]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Jade Constantine I have no former anarchist friends. That is what you fail to understand. A failure is just that - a failure. I have no time for the weak of will and lacking in backbone. I spare no thought to the destitute of spirit and false in ideals. That perhaps is what drives these creatures to their empty-eyed condemnations and pitiful public mewling. I make no apology. The revolution is one of two loves in my life - there is no room in my heart for those who have betrayed the cause of freedom.
I seem to remember you and the Cosmopolite saying that everyone was always free to return to the SF cause? Has that changed? Or is this merely another example of SF hypocrisy.
No, it is merely another example of your inability, probably wilful, to grasp the point that is being made.
The Cosmopolite
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